Overkill UK Police?!

Brady

Hey,

Im sure all of you's have been reading the story about this massive police manhunt for Raoul Moat.

Having read some of the latest developments and checking out the images i couldnt believe hardware on display of the UK police force (check out attachements)

Is it just me or is this overkill?!


Images are Sourced from BBC Newswebsite

orourkeda

They are chasing a gunmen you know

starbelgrade

It's hardly overkill.. you wouldn't expect the police to go looking for an armed looney, wearing luminous jackets & carrying nothing more dangerous than a baton.

Biggins

No, its deliberate tactics.
Psychological tactics being used on the man pressure-wise for him to turn himself in.
They are simply and visibly trying to turn up the pressure on him to do so.

They could have also brought in the SAS in quietly but to announce that they are doing it, they do so WITH reason.

Riskymove

The first pic looks like standard procedure to me...certainly if I was the guy having to open the boots I'd be glad to have the other guy ready


the second is a bit OTT alright...I imagine its a bit of exciting work for a few days for a lot of these coppers

I play too much Halo... Thread title failed to deliver.

who the fug

God help anybody if the MET are there

Brady

True, i somehow doubt holding a fully automatic machine gun to what looks like a pensioners head is necessary!?

Further more in the other picture there are at least 2 guys with huge sniper rifles which is of no use close quarters...

Im from the north and i can remember when there was a real terrorist threat, it was no were near as bad as that.

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's hardly overkill.. you wouldn't expect the police to go looking for an armed looney, wearing luminous jackets & carrying nothing more dangerous than a baton.

caseyann

starbelgrade wrote: »

It's hardly overkill.. you wouldn't expect the police to go looking for an armed looney, wearing luminous jackets & carrying nothing more dangerous than a baton.

With neon flashing sign hanging over come get me here i am dont forget the bulls eyes painted on them


It is good to see they are doing it right,that guy is a danger to everyone so long as he is out running around.

Hogzy

The guy has waged war on the police, already shot and killed someone he thought was a cop and shot another cop intending to kill him... No its not over kill one bit. If that team of armed police in the second picture happen to come accross him Moat can still pick off one of them (which is one too many). The more armed police the better, Means there is more of a chance of catching him.

The reason theyre all in a group is because they are probably going to split up further down the line.

Brady

He has already stated he has no intrest in the public, just the police

caseyann wrote: »

With neon flashing sign hanging over come get me here i am dont forget the bulls eyes painted on them


It is good to see they are doing it right,that guy is a danger to everyone so long as he is out running around.

Riskymove

Brady wrote: »

True, i somehow doubt holding a fully automatic machine gun to what looks like a pensioners head is necessary!?

its pointing at the boot of the car i think!

phill106

What about the 20 amoured jeeps sent over from northern ireland? I think he is secretly the predator!

Brady

Prob right... but it does look quite funny :eek:

Riskymove wrote: »

its pointing at the boot of the car i think!

Brady

lol

who the fug wrote: »

God help anybody if the MET are there

who the fug

Brady wrote: »

Im from the north and i can remember when there was a real terrorist threat, it was no were near as bad as that.

Modern UK policing is more about news coverage and the blame game than policing

caseyann

Brady wrote: »

He has already stated he has no intrest in the public, just the police

Ever hear of hijacking a car or holding hostages,you are going take the word of a crazed gun man :eek:

Brady

Im not taking anyones word, i dont really have a massive intrest on the outcome of this, i just think it looks like the Poilce have watched a few eps of the wire and are loving the harware.. fair play, looks pretty awesome.

caseyann wrote: »

Ever hear of hijacking a car or holding hostages,you are going take the word of a crazed gun man :eek:

Hogzy

who the fug wrote: »

Modern UK policing is more about news coverage and the blame game than policing

lol... And where do you get this idea? From watching Sky News is it?

Dravokivich

Yer calling this overkill after what happened in Cumbria not too long ago?

jsd1004

caseyann wrote: »

Ever hear of hijacking a car or holding hostages,you are going take the word of a crazed gun man :eek:

Nice cop issue motors too..bmw X5'S 535's..fond of their beemers. Our boys must be crying on the dashboard of the tri aerial d reg mondeos

caseyann

Brady wrote: »

Im not taking anyones word, i dont really have a massive intrest on the outcome of this, i just think it looks like the Poilce have watched a few eps of the wire and are loving the harware.. fair play and all that.

Been honest prevention is better than cure,and coming back after say he has shot somebody else or hijacked a car,whole country in up roar.And police saying we should have done this or that.I think i would go with what they are doing.
If this guy was roaming streets in Ireland i would be one pissed off woman,if we had our gardai out with batons doing road stops and boot checks and walking through fields etc..

Brady

Fair point.

Dravokivich wrote: »

Yer calling this overkill after what happened in Cumbria not too long ago?

caseyann

jsd1004 wrote: »

Nice cop issue motors too..bmw X5'S 535's..fond of their beemers. Our boys must be crying on the dashboard of the tri aerial d reg mondeos

lol i know their cars are naff

CreepingDeath

Hogzy wrote: »

The guy has waged war on the police...

It's Rambo first blood all over again, the legend continues !

lisbon_lions

The 2nd one is amateurish tbh, they are not in a spread out formation - one spray of a machine gun and they all bite it. Which makes me think it is a photo op more than actual tactics being deployed.

Brady

This is kind of where im going with this...

Nevertheless, it would be pretty sweet to be tooled up with that gear for your job.

lisbon_lions wrote: »

The 2nd one is amateurish tbh, they are not in a spread out formation - one spray of a machine gun and they all bite it. Which makes me think it is a photo op more than actual tactics being deployed.

genericguy

Brady wrote: »

He has already stated he has no intrest in the public, just the police

yeah, or anyone he incorrectly assumes to be the police, like the guy he killed? do you really think the police would say "hey lads, he says he's only gonna shoot at us, not the public, leave the guns in the station"

i hope the person that catches this prick happens to use a knife rather than a gun on him.

GavRedKing

Brady wrote: »

He has already stated he has no intrest in the public, just the police

Does that make it ok??

Not an ounce of overkill IMo, he could easily be hiding anywhere and have somebody helping him get around, its a routine stop in this situation.

If the cops had opened the boot and he had shot one of them people would have being wondering why the procedures werent followed for any car or vehicle, regardless of the occupants.

Biggins

lisbon_lions wrote: »

The 2nd one is amateurish tbh, they are not in a spread out formation - one spray of a machine gun and they all bite it. Which makes me think it is a photo op more than actual tactics being deployed.

Please...! Its cops - not a hardened battle drilled military squad!

genericguy

jsd1004 wrote: »

Nice cop issue motors too..bmw X5'S 535's..fond of their beemers. Our boys must be crying on the dashboard of the tri aerial d reg mondeos

our emergency response unit gets these vehicles, all suped up to fcuk, all bullet-proof. they are totally unneccesary for our lads' other units.

Cookie_Monster

The first pic:

" oh sorry officer, I didn't notice the crazy 6ft + gun man in the boot of my little car..."


As for the second pic, they just look like a bunch of mercenaries. Where are the uniforms, highly unprofessional IMO.

lisbon_lions

Biggins wrote: »

Please...! Its cops - not a hardened battle drilled military squad!

I think the fact that they are yielding weapons in search of a fugitive negates that argument. Simple spread out formation with 360 cover goes a long way to keeping you safer, regardless of your profession.

Hogzy

Why cant they just get some super nifty SAS people in to track him down. Jesus we've seen all the documentarys on TV about how awesome they are at finding people. Why dont they just use them?

Cookie_Monster

Hogzy wrote: »

Why cant they just get some super nifty SAS people in to track him down. Jesus we've seen all the documentarys on TV about how awesome they are at finding people. Why dont they just use them?

all still off searching for Osama, that's how good they are

Biggins

lisbon_lions wrote: »

I think the fact that they are yielding weapons in search of a fugitive negates that argument. Simple spread out formation with 360 cover goes a long way to keeping you safer, regardless of your profession.

...and simply spread out in a line provides a line you would find in a shooting gallery for a sniper to target on easily before moving in micro-seconds to the next in line target.

There is pro's and cons to different formations and unless you actually know why they are in the formation (as in the second pic) they are in, I wouldn't be so quick to say to rush to assessment.

Clearly the lot in the second pic are cops. Why they are moving in that formation is best know to themselves. I've seen other pics/footage where actual military soldiers elsewhere looking for this man, are moving along in other line forms of detachment.

...One of the factors by the way, is the terrain they are in at the time.

mikemac

The police got severe criticism in Cumbria though there is very little they could have done.

Now they are using all available resources and it's overkill?

Let the professionals do their job and don't judge them from behind the keyboard OP

lisbon_lions

Biggins wrote: »

...and simply spread out in a line provides a line you would find in a shooting gallery for a sniper to target on easily before moving in micro-seconds to the next in line target.

There is pro's and cons to different formations and unless you actually know why they are in the formation (as in the second pic) they are in, I wouldn't be so quick to say to rush to assessment.

Clearly the lot in the second pic are cops. Why they are moving in that formation is best know to themselves. I've seen other pics/footage where actual military soldiers elsewhere looking for this man, are moving along in other line forms of detachment.

...One of the factors by the way, is the terrain they are in at the time.

I didn't say line - because as you rightly point out, a line down the line of sight is just as vulnerable as a closely grouped bunch of cops. I'm sure they got training on such matters of searching in formation. To me, this is just a photograph to turn up the heat and nothing more.

Biggins

Hogzy wrote: »

Why cant they just get some super nifty SAS people in to track him down. Jesus we've seen all the documentarys on TV about how awesome they are at finding people. Why dont they just use them?

The SAS it has been announced (this morning) has been called in too.

antodeco

Brady, when using quote, PLEASE have the quote first, then your reply! Its so confusing

Biggins

lisbon_lions wrote: »

...To me, this is just a photograph to turn up the heat and nothing more.

Well I assumed that all along as my post (earlier No 4)

...its deliberate tactics.
Psychological tactics being used on the man pressure-wise for him to turn himself in.
They are simply and visibly trying to turn up the pressure on him to do so.

baldbear

Sky just said 10% of all UK firarms officers are now in the area! So i wonder how many guns those he have? There looks to be some special forces in the area too. Maybe it's just one big misunderstanding!

Sofa King Great

The second picture is clearly a load of guys coming back from a search or something. As the photo is taken head on this means the photographer would have to be in an area already searched/safe and as such those lads aren't on proper alert.

Also, some people have to remember Call of Duty =/= Real Life

r3nu4l

Sofa King Great wrote: »

Also, some people have to remember Call of Duty =/= Real Life

Anyone who plays Modern Warfare 2 knows that.

/Commando lunges 20 feet across a room to stab someone.

Biggins

Sofa King Great wrote: »

The second picture is clearly a load of guys coming back from a search or something. As the photo is taken head on this means the photographer would have to be in an area already searched/safe and as such those lads aren't on proper alert.

Very good point.

Sanjuro

They should just carpet-bomb Northumberland. Instant win.

Cookie_Monster

Sanjuro wrote: »

They should just carpet-bomb Northumberland. Instant win.

funny, that exact point came up with the work crowd over breakfast today too
and it wasn't even me that made it!

baldbear

Police news conferance now. By the sounds of it your man Moat is after making a right bollox of all the police. People rang the cops claiming to be Moat but wern't him at all!
The net is closing in, he is somewhere in the UK region....

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

funny, that exact point came up with the work crowd over breakfast today too
and it wasn't even me that made it!

Gonna be an awkward lunch now that ye knew ye work with each other?

Ross_Mahon

If you won't end this now, they will kill you. Is that what you want? It's over Johnny. It's over!

LadyMayBelle

It's all over the news over here, and i have to say I did think it was all a bit overkill, but can now understand the psychological tactic behind it. Apparently he has waged war on the wider public now, so they are stepping their search..still finding it hard to believe they haven't found him yet tho, they've found two places he slept rough so far..