Outdoor Track and Field Championships 2010

smcclaw

Here's some photos of the weekend's action. I'll add some more later in the week.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/irish_sports_photography/sets/72157624465706800/

RunToFart

The angle of the video does not show the momentum lost as a result of the event nor the pulling of the shorts. If there was another video taken, that wasnt behind a pillar... further down the stand it would have shown what was evident to everyone in the stand.
if you do look at the video you will see the two athletes sprinting up the home straight both of whom are in lane1. there are 10 sprint lanes up the home straight in santry. these are grown men so aint exactly small. why did an athlete of chamneys experience and talent feel the need to force his way through a gap that it is very evident was not there. the two athletes in front rightly defended their ground. The effort of this defence caused the momentum of the green athlete to move in, causing chamney, who realised wasnt going to get through the non-gap to stumble and grab hold of the yellow athlete thus impeding him.
i understand there is bumping in track but in my opinion he was guilty of unsporting behaviour and should have been punished. Looking at the qualification times to make the final then it didnt make any difference but as this was heat2 the athletes didnt know what time they would have needed to get to the final.

Red Handed

if anything that guy in the yellow should have been disqualified for throwing chamney a harsh elbow and nearly knocking him over...

are we here to run or are we run to put our tootoos on and have a dance?

If they did have tootoos on chamney would have been left with a nice handful! The kid looks like he weighs about 9 stone, he couldnt knock chmaney over if he tried. Where are you seeing this harsh elbow, theres a big difference between throwing an elbow and running into the back of someones elbow when they are pumping thier arms down the home straight.

Glad to see we have a representitive of crusaders ac here anyway. if not the man himself.

shels4ever

Red Handed wrote: »

If they did have tootoos on chamney would have been left with a nice handful! The kid looks like he weighs about 9 stone, he couldnt knock chmaney over if he tried. Where are you seeing this harsh elbow, theres a big difference between throwing an elbow and running into the back of someones elbow when they are pumping thier arms down the home straight.

Glad to see we have a representitive of crusaders ac here anyway. if not the man himself.

Was there a protest lodged by the Athlete himself of the club? I doubt if it was anyone else other then Chamney anything woudl be said. Watched it many times not and didnt see much wrong, but I wasnt there on the day .

Red Belly

IIRC Chamney got some stick for being "pushed around" in his 1500m heat in Berlin last year. Now it appears that if he does some "pushing" (I'm not convinced it was anything more than an unfortunate coming together) he gets stick?


rb

ecoli

shels4ever wrote: »

Was there a protest lodged by the Athlete himself of the club? I doubt if it was anyone else other then Chamney anything woudl be said. Watched it many times not and didnt see much wrong, but I wasnt there on the day .

I agree that this kinda thing does happen in middle distance races. Does seem to have got more attention just because it was Chamney i mean the 1500m ad a similar incident at about half way but does not seem to be getting any attention

anotheronebites

Red Handed wrote: »

when they are pumping thier arms down the home straight.

pity he didn't pump harder

woodchopper

anotheronebites wrote: »

pity he didn't pump harder

I wont quote the entire piece but it goes along the lines of the honour is with the man who is out there sweating blood for a noble cause not with the observer who dare critize the endeavour. No athlete competing in a national championship should be ridiculed by a poster who hides his identity for fear of been exposed. Let us celebrate does who dare to dream and compete not those who dare to stay within their comfort zones and joke from the sideline.

The argumnet proves one crucial point. Mr Chamney is a not a great championship racer ( so far) particulary when it is tactical. He has no reason to get stuck the way he did in the heats given his experience over the distance.

fiddy3

Want another example of officials getting it severely wrong at the weekend? Kelly Proper's final jump, which saw her overtake another athlete for the gold, was a clear break, witnessed by just about everyone by the long jump pit. Bizarrely, the official then said 'measure', giving her the win. If you think i'm making this up, watch the programme on the rte player, and watch her reaction after landing for the winning jump. Freaked because she knew it was a break. Guess someone knew someone over at the long jump pit. :rolleyes:

thirtyfoot

fiddy3 wrote: »

Want another example of officials getting it severely wrong at the weekend? Kelly Proper's final jump, which saw her overtake another athlete for the gold, was a clear break, witnessed by just about everyone by the long jump pit. Bizarrely, the official then said 'measure', giving her the win. If you think i'm making this up, watch the programme on the rte player, and watch her reaction after landing for the winning jump. Freaked because she knew it was a break. Guess someone knew someone over at the long jump pit. :rolleyes:

It's been proven that whinging and moaning on boards with an anonymous username will really not make a difference. To all to the whinging and moaning losers, if you have a grievance, follow it up where you can really make a difference. Grow balls. Got an email from a coach who according to boards was chasing and trying to persuade team management all weekend. They were having a good chuckle at the thought but also a little scared that someone was following them all weekend!!!


The A/R/T forum is sucking some serious metaphorical ass recently. Bring back the glory days of Pherekydes, Rineanna, flipflops, Roymc, ecoli, cfitz, woddle, racingflat, hardworker, hunnym et al. Might start a retro thread for decent threads where we'd agree and row in equal measure and take evrything with a pinch of salt. Glory days!!!!!

fiddy3

Not really my place to appeal or email the aai, on the day is the time for all that, just pointing out what seemed a major mistake (or was it more???) by an official at the weekend. If an athlete lost out on what should have been a gold medal and national title because of it, it surely deserves some attention and discussion. The example of the kid not getting into the junior 3k because of the call room crap needs to be sorted, how can an official be so rigorous in enforcing the rules on one hand yet blatantly ignore them in another? All in all though, a great day's racing it certainly was.

Rineanna

These conspiracy theories are starting to get slightly tedious. There's absolutely no proof that anybody knows anybody, so please stop firing accusations at officials if you can't back it up.

fiddy3

There were about 30 people at the long jump pit who can back it up, as can the video which shows Proper cursing after she lands, now why would an athlete be annoyed on landing (and bear in mind long jumpers know instinctively if they've just done a good one) if she just jumped a winning jump? Not her fault at all of course, but whoever was judging the board could do with a trip to specsavers. In fairness, the vast majority of the officials do a great job, most of whom are volunteers, but when athletes have trained all winter for that event, they deserve consistency, that's all.

longjump67

Was not at the womens long jump on Saturday but had heard many comments by people who were, that there was doubt over Kelly's last jump. Was surfing the clubs web pages and came across this image of Kelly's last jump. Make of it what you will.

http://www.tirchonaillac.com/Home%20Page%20Docs/2010/2010_07_12/Santry/Santry.html

The same thing happened on Sunday with the Men's long jump, young Mc Mullan from Mid-Ulster had a winning jump of 7.36m which the official using the electronic machine measured even though it was called a foul, but the athlete had asked to see the the impression on the Plasticine, but the officials said although there was no mark he had clearly fouled due to the plasticine being lower than the take off board. He left disgusted maybe this is what happened the day before but was interpreted in a different way by a different official?

notsofast

Certainly doesn't look like a clear foul, more like spot on. Official also looks to be concentrating hard.

Hate all this negativity.

drrunner

Tingle wrote: »

The A/R/T forum is sucking some serious metaphorical ass recently.

Mysterious....whose ass is being sucked:D???

On a positive note - Ailis McSweeney's own prediction that she would get the standard for Barca just came true this evening! 11.40 to break a 32 year old Irish record (in fact the longest standing record on the women's side AFAIK)....yeh!!!!

hello 44

In relation to the Chamney incident, in my view it was accidental and your natural instinct is to put your hand out if your going to fall. All that aside both other athletes involved could and should have made the final of the 800 if they had raced from the start instead of waiting for some young lad to make a move from 300 mtr gone. It was at the 500 mtr mark before the race began, so I have no sympathy for either athlete as if they ran to their potential judging on their times so far this year, all three would have easily made the final. In my eyes they gave Chamney too much respect as at 200mtr Chamney dropped the pace way back. Instead of reacting, all the athletes froze.

Giants Causeway

Rineanna wrote: »

These conspiracy theories are starting to get slightly tedious. There's absolutely no proof that anybody knows anybody, so please stop firing accusations at officials if you can't back it up.

With regard to the Junior 3000m I can back it up. I can name the official if your charter permits me?

For verification you could ask the coaches of the gold and silver medalists in the race these two were at the start. One is a former national senior cross country champion who was shouting at the young athlete to start the race anyway and deal with the nonsense after.

That comment is not idle unsubstantiated accusation - it did happen, with many witnesses.

Best of luck to Kelly and madra in Barcelona! Both are fine athletes, well worthy of representing us at major championships.

Rineanna

Giants Causeway wrote: »

With regard to the Junior 3000m I can back it up. I can name the official if your charter permits me?

For verification you could ask the coaches of the gold and silver medalists in the race these two were at the start. One is a former national senior cross country champion who was shouting at the young athlete to start the race anyway and deal with the nonsense after.

That comment is not idle unsubstantiated accusation - it did happen, with many witnesses.

Best of luck to Kelly and madra in Barcelona! Both are fine athletes, well worthy of representing us at major championships.

It was the Long Jump I was referring to specifically, not the 3000m. I would prefer you not to name the officials in question.

It does sound that the AAI could learn a lot from this year's nationals, and I hope they ensure these situations are avoided in future championships as it's slightly tarnished this year's champs.

drrunner

Isn't it natural that after a weekend in which about 40 different events were contested there will be debate and controversy? Isn't that part of what contributes to the interest and intrigue? Isn't a discussion about the standard of officiating just as relevant as a discussion about the standard of athlete performances? Of course a forum such as this really has no practical relevance in the real world - it is just a talking shop, but if you log in that's what you're signing up to surely!!! Personally I can't comment on the 800m incident or the long jumps legality or the athlete being omitted from the junior 3k - on the other hand I can personally attest to overhearing heated conversation regarding the selection of an athlete between a coach and official and also to a conversation which took place between another coach and official about the same subject which bothered me! In reality there are a number of things going on - mistakes are genuinely made (possibly in the long jump incidents?), incidents occur where the rights and wrongs are simply not clear cut (the 800m), athletes, spectators and officials bring other agendas to the party which can be difficult to decipher (perhaps in the junior 3k or in selection decisions) and sometimes there can be actual badness in how decisions are made/athletes are treated. Vincent Hogan had a good article today in the Independent which explored the theme that Sport can't force social values - it reflects them. It was in relation to the various incidents at GAA matches over the weekend, but is probably equally relevant to the miscellany of incidents which occur in a weekend of Track & Field!

Rineanna

drrunner wrote: »

Isn't it natural that after a weekend in which about 40 different events were contested there will be debate and controversy?

Debate, certainly, but there doesn't have to be controversy. Hence why I'm hoping they reflect on the officiating issues for future editions of the event.

IrishTrackFan1

Rineanna wrote: »

Debate, certainly, but there doesn't have to be controversy. Hence why I'm hoping they reflect on the officiating issues for future editions of the event.

And we haven't even started to debate the key issue of the weekend - the new commentator! No harm reducing Nick Davis' input as he tends to be a bit wooden in his delivery, although fairly knowledgeable at least compared to our new mid-Atlantic interloper!

Good to see new stuff being tried but for my money anyway this was not the way to go. The starting place for any commentator has to be knowledge and this guy had zero knowledge of our sport. The delivery was cheesy in the extreme. Back to the youth club discos for him!

thirtyfoot

longjump67 wrote: »

Was not at the womens long jump on Saturday but had heard many comments by people who were, that there was doubt over Kelly's last jump. Was surfing the clubs web pages and came across this image of Kelly's last jump. Make of it what you will.

http://www.tirchonaillac.com/Home%20Page%20Docs/2010/2010_07_12/Santry/Santry.html

The same thing happened on Sunday with the Men's long jump, young Mc Mullan from Mid-Ulster had a winning jump of 7.36m which the official using the electronic machine measured even though it was called a foul, but the athlete had asked to see the the impression on the Plasticine, but the officials said although there was no mark he had clearly fouled due to the plasticine being lower than the take off board. He left disgusted maybe this is what happened the day before but was interpreted in a different way by a different official?

Classic, that photo proves it wasn't a foul. Will the poster who made the original claim retract their post or is cursing after leaving the pit a foul? I always thought it was marking the plasticine. See this is the problem with crazy accusations, you can say what you want but then when there is backup to disprove it. No problem discussing the Chamney incident. I felt there was no gap and if I was the track ref I would have DQd him. I understand the athlete appealed and it was turned down. As for the 3k callroom, no sympathy if you miss the callroom for an athlete of that age. His coach should be asking themselves a few questions for not prepping him. Having said that I could imagine how some of the officials could be heavy handed.

I raced both days and generally felt it was a good experience aside from a couple of issues which we complained about at the time and got sorted.

thirtyfoot

IrishTrackFan1 wrote: »

And we haven't even started to debate the key issue of the weekend - the new commentator! No harm reducing Nick Davis' input as he tends to be a bit wooden in his delivery, although fairly knowledgeable at least compared to our new mid-Atlantic interloper!

Good to see new stuff being tried but for my money anyway this was not the way to go. The starting place for any commentator has to be knowledge and this guy had zero knowledge of our sport. The delivery was cheesy in the extreme. Back to the youth club discos for him!

He was brutal alright. Nick Davis does need to replaced but your man made him sound good. Time for Susan from IMC to come on board. Your man sounded like an après match version on Will Downing!!!!

PS Will Downing would be a good commentator although Greg Allen would be the business.

IrishTrackFan1

Tingle wrote: »

Classic, that photo proves it wasn't a foul. Will the poster who made the original claim retract their post or is cursing after leaving the pit a foul? I always thought it was marking the plasticine. See this is the problem with crazy accusations, you can say what you want but then when there is backup to disprove it. No problem discussing the Chamney incident. I felt there was no gap and if I was the track ref I would have DQd him. I understand the athlete appealed and it was turned down. As for the 3k callroom, no sympathy if you miss the callroom for an athlete of that age. His coach should be asking themselves a few questions for not prepping him. Having said that I could imagine how some of the officials could be heavy handed.

I raced both days and generally felt it was a good experience aside from a couple of issues which we complained about at the time and got sorted.

I always thought it was marking the plasticine also but a recent decision at a Diamond League (from memory it was some televised meet anyway) made me question that as it seemed a foul was called on the jumper based on the toe being over the line as it appears Kelly may be from the admittedly inconclusive photo.

drrunner

Tingle wrote: »

Classic, that photo proves it wasn't a foul.

Fair play to your eyesight that you can see that there was no mark on the plasticine after the jump was complete!!! Personally can't see that this photo proves anything one way or other (just a personal opinion). Remember Montalvo in the 1999 World Champs...."mistakes" can be made at all levels! My own personal experience as a competitor in National Champs like yourself has always been really positive and maybe I have been lucky that I have always encountered friendly, helpful, supportive officials. I'm not naive enough to believe though that this is universal.

thirtyfoot

drrunner wrote: »

Fair play to your eyesight that you can see that there was no mark on the plasticine after the jump was complete!!! .

True, ok I may be over the top in saying its definetly not a foul but the OP said it was a clear foul and implied collusion between the officials and the athletes people (or thats how I read it anyway).

drrunner

Tingle wrote: »

He was brutal alright. Nick Davis does need to replaced but your man made him sound good. Time for Susan from IMC to come on board. Your man sounded like an après match version on Will Downing!!!!

PS Will Downing would be a good commentator although Greg Allen would be the business.

Greg would be the man alright!

Giants Causeway

Tingle wrote: »

As for the 3k callroom, no sympathy if you miss the callroom for an athlete of that age. His coach should be asking themselves a few questions for not prepping him. Having said that I could imagine how some of the officials could be heavy handed.

The athlete has never had to go to a call room in his life before - none of the age group championships in Ireland have one! Nor does the schools. The national juniors did this year (unlike many other years) but the athlete in question did not race on that occasion. Attitudes like that of the former International Secretary leaves a sour taste. Nobody wants him around any more anyway as he was told on the day by a former national cross country champion!

You have to learn somewhere and it was an innocent mistake by the athlete and no unfair advantage was sought or gained. To be honest that kind of approach from you as a senior athlete stinks.

They were more than willing to take his entry fee, provide him with a number and check him in but no pardon for an innocent mistake. No leniancy here was far too heavy handed and absurd. We had 34 junior men in the national junior cross country this year. Thats an average of one per county!!!! And this is how athletes get treated?? People need to wise up here.

thirtyfoot

Giants Causeway wrote: »

The athlete has never had to go to a call room in his life before - none of the age group championships in Ireland have one! Nor does the schools. The national juniors did this year (unlike many other years) but the athlete in question did not race on that occasion. Attitudes like that of the former International Secretary leaves a sour taste. Nobody wants him around any more anyway as he was told on the day by a former national cross country champion!

You have to learn somewhere and it was an innocent mistake by the athlete and no unfair advantage was sought or gained. To be honest that kind of approach from you as a senior athlete stinks.

They were more than willing to take his entry fee, provide him with a number and check him in but no pardon for an innocent mistake. No leniancy here was far too heavy handed and absurd. We had 34 junior men in the national junior cross country this year. Thats an average of one per county!!!! And this is how athletes get treated?? People need to wise up here.

So which do we want? A well run National championships that is up to best international practice, ie, warmup area (they could do with cordoning that off to only athletes/coavches), call room, events on time etc or a situation where an athlete can not go through the process properly and 'sure we'll let him run anyway'. Which do you want - properly run or gombeenmanism? I'm confused.

Can't comment on the attitude of the official but if somebody wants to compete at the biggest event on the domestic calender then it is his, or his club or coaches responsibility if he is young and inexperienced, that he knows how to do it right. I don't even know why there is a Junior 3k at the senior champs.