Outdoor Track and Field Championships 2010

Giants Causeway

Letting the kid run would hardly have been gombeenism - that is an absolute nonsense. It would hardly have affected the standard of the meeting if he had ran. 99% of those in attendence (yourself included) would never have even known.

The Junior 3000m has been part of the programme for many years as the National Junior championships has a 5000m and 1500m and this is used as a developmental exercise. It is usually a great race and is seen as very benefical. There is no need to be so heavy handed with emerging athletes - a simple warning would have sufficed. The other athlete who missed the call room gave the official the slip and ran so what difference would one more athlete have made. Some coaches are inexperienced too, lets not penalise those who are trying to upskill.

Attitudes like yours have Irish athletics in the state its in. Unfortunately common sense is in short supply.

thirtyfoot

Giants Causeway wrote: »

Letting the kid run would hardly have been gombeenism - that is an absolute nonsense. It would hardly have affected the standard of the meeting if he had ran. 99% of those in attendence (yourself included) would never have even known.

The Junior 3000m has been part of the programme for many years as the National Junior championships has a 5000m and 1500m and this is used as a developmental exercise. It is usually a great race and is seen as very benefical. There is no need to be so heavy handed with emerging athletes - a simple warning would have sufficed. The other athlete who missed the call room gave the official the slip and ran so what difference would one more athlete have made. Some coaches are inexperienced too, lets not penalise those who are trying to upskill.

Attitudes like yours have Irish athletics in the state its in. Unfortunately common sense is in short supply.

What you mean the state of Irish athletics. Its in rude health. We have our biggest team ever going to Euros with a lot of medal chances, youths running well, juniors running well and lots of great athletes coming through. This is a great time for Irish athletics (as regards the athletes).

Ok, it may have been heavy handed and if thats the case thats inexcusable but there is some element of responsibility with the athlete too. If he is old enough to run at a senior champs even in a junior race he should be old enough to know the craic. The consequence of sorting this out could have been a delay to the program etc etc and the problems that come from that.

One thing for sure the kid or his coach won't miss a callroom again!!

longjump67

Giants Causeway wrote: »

The athlete has never had to go to a call room in his life before - none of the age group championships in Ireland have one!

Call rooms are used in Ireland at age group championships, was used in the indoor championships were athletes as young as 10 are required to present themselves to officials who escort them to the call room prior to entering the track.
Find it strange that this athlete had not been in a call room before and if so the coach should have prepared the athlete for this. Announcements were made on at least four occasions stating that athletes had to present themselves to the call room

notsofast

Yep, that's correct. As well as national juvenile champs, Leinster juvenile champs in Nenagh have been using the call room for years where U12s have to present themselves prior to races. Same in the odyssey for the Ulster juvenile champs. Essential for the smooth running of an event.

Giants Causeway

Yes Longjump, it is used in Nenagh but not once in 20 years outdoors.

Tingle, the sport is in great shape on the track but the last 18 months has been a very turbulent time in irish athletics from an administrative perspective. It has been a nightmare really. Court cases, funding rows etc etc etc. I'm not going into that boring stuff now though.

To answer your speculation that allowing the guy to run would have delayed the programme - that is utter nonsense. He had his number, was checked in and at the start! More time was wasted ensuring he didn't run!!
As I previously stated another athlete missed the call room and ran the race. What harm did he do? Really, i'd like you to address that point instead of skirting around with speculative nonsense.

Fair enough, a junior should go to the call room. But 2 didn't one was allowed to run and one wasn't!! Hardly fair?

He's not the first man in irish athletics to make a mistake, officials make them too.Its called human error and the punishment didn't fit the crime.

longjump67

Giants Causeway wrote: »

Yes Longjump, it is used in Nenagh but not once in 20 years outdoors.

Fair enough, a junior should go to the call room. But 2 didn't one was allowed to run and one wasn't!! Hardly fair?

He's not the first man in irish athletics to make a mistake, officials make them too.Its called human error and the punishment didn't fit the crime.

It seems that mistakes were made on both sides, the athlete/coach not following protocol and the official allowing seemingly unknowingly allowing the 2nd athlete to run.

Some lessons have to be learned the hard way and I do feel sorry for the athlete concerned that he was robbed of his chance to compete in the race. Officials for the most part try to accommodate the athletes and we couldn't run an event without them.
However as in life you will always run across the more than my jobs-worth element who is unyielding in attitude and drunk on the perceived power of decision making that can result in athletes coming of on the wrong end.

I hope this doesn't deter the athlete from competing and he can put it down to experience in the knowledge that on the whole most officials use common sense are impartial and are there because they love the sport.

a_non_a_mouse

With regard the junior race...
How difficult would it be for the AAI to print on either the entry form or the timetable (preferably both) that a call room will be in operation and failure to present to the call room will result in the athlete not being allowed compete.

Would avoid a repeat of this unfortunate incident.

a_non_a_mouse

actually they have...
just checked the entry forms/timetable on AAI site and it does mention a call room...
so while it would be good if they had more info than just
"A call room will be in operation"

In that case, i do think the athletes running should have known a call room was in operation, fair enough it was their first time, but when collecting their number they should have asked the official whats the story with the call room.
that said....I do feel sorry for the athlete and I feel if allowing them run was not going to delay proceedings then I feel they should have been left run.

I've pasted below an excerpt of a letter athletes get when registering for the Juv AAA's in UK. Plain as day whats expected then.


CALL ROOM PROCEDURE

The call room system is designed to ensure a smooth running of a busy timetable schedule.

Call Room

Track Events (except hurdles) 20 minutes before the scheduled start.
Hurdles 25 minutes before the scheduled start.
Field Events (except Pole Vault) 45 minutes before the scheduled start.
Pole Vault 75 minutes before the scheduled start.

You will then be escorted by the Call Room stewards to the competition area.

thirtyfoot

Giants Causeway wrote: »

Tingle, the sport is in great shape on the track but the last 18 months has been a very turbulent time in irish athletics from an administrative perspective. It has been a nightmare really. Court cases, funding rows etc etc etc. I'm not going into that boring stuff now though.

Is that not what the true definition of the health of the sport is though. The athletes are doing well and those who have very little impact on the sport in real terms are fighting and jostling away.

On that, if we are to get away from an off-track environment where rules are not adhered to or followed or best practice is not the target, how will letting an athlete compete when they don't follow protocol that practically all the other 400 or so athletes had the cop on to understand because 'what harm will it do' be a way to get to a professional and well run setup. You can't have it both ways, give out about things being run badly and when things are run properly and enforced, complain.

Giants Causeway wrote: »

To answer your speculation that allowing the guy to run would have delayed the programme - that is utter nonsense. He had his number, was checked in and at the start! More time was wasted ensuring he didn't run!!
As I previously stated another athlete missed the call room and ran the race. What harm did he do? Really, i'd like you to address that point instead of skirting around with speculative nonsense.

.

Just because some else got away with it and had to cheek just to tag along in the race anyway doesn't mean its right. Its like saying sure your man down the road is working, claiming the dole down south and up north and living with his missus who is claiming single parent benefits in a free house, so hey why shouldn't I beat the system too.

What harm did he do? He didn't enter the race correctly, you admitted he already delayed the start because of the caffufle. What happens if all or half the athletes start doing this, you would have chaos. Thats what a callroom is for, to avoid this crap. Its not an Open Sports in conjunction with the local Vintage Car Rally. Its the National Championships, with elite athletes competing, TV, people paying money. Grand, you can have the attitude that what harm will one guy do but the rules are the rules and he didn't properly check in. Its hard enough getting athletes into a callroom and then one lad doesn't bother and arrives on the startline. I would say the 'what harm will it do' attitude is more of a contribution to the off-track problems you speak off than wanting to do things by the book and properly and following rules.

Anyway, its such a small thing and I'm not sure why I am getting so ansy about.

I'd say scrap the Junior 3k as then these inexperienced kids can learn such things in a less intense and controlled environment.

myflipflops

I remember running the junior 3k at National Seniors. Call room procedure was there and everybody followed it. I used to have a thing where i would never have my singlet on until i was about to walk to the line (i'd wear a training top up to that point). The officials that day insisted i walked out with the singlet on. I thought it was a strict attitude but figured that was right at National Seniors. They obviously attempt to stick rigidly to the rules.

Before blaming the officials for heavy handedness, the athletes coach/mentor is to blame for not preparing the lad for what to expect at his (presumably) first Senior championship appearance.

Giants Causeway

<snip> I have the height of respect for the genuine guys who volunteer as officials and this guy should not be allowed to tarnish their good name.

Strange analogies you use Tingle. Not much hope of constructive debate with you when you start talk about scamming the dole and single mother payments! I won’t engage further on the subject <snip>.

Rineanna

Right, this thread is going nowhere fast. Nationals are over, move along now.

Locked.