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Can I take legal action against o2?
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09-07-2010 3:11pm#1Ok I got an iphone in January 2009 on an 18 month contract. Summer 2009 I was in London for a week, I need to check the map on my iphone using net connection to find the hotel, I also used the net for a few minutes to check things like weather and football scored. I'd say I used it for maybe a total of 15 minutes. I got a call from 02 when my bill was 450 euros, 10 times the usual monthly bill of 45. I was annoyed with myself for being an idiot and using the net abroad but I had absolutely no idea it would be that expensive. I was also a little annoyed with 02 for only informing me about the cost when it was 10 times above the normal rate but I accept responsibility for that. After that experience I said i'd see my contract out but never go near 02 again.
I sent them the following mail on 24th March 2010
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Hi there, Please inform me how many months I have left on my phone contract. I signed for an 18 month deal so there can't be much time left. I want to confirm I will be leaving the o2 network at the end of my contract period. I know that some companies sometimes renew people's contracts without telling them so I want to make something sneaky like that doesn't happen in my case. Please confirm when my contracy expires that you will not renew it or take any more money out of my account via direct debit. Unfortunately I have a very negative view of my time with 02 while using my iphone due to the fact that I was charged 450 euros (10 times the cost of my normal bill) for checking a few football results and looking at a map while using the phone online in London last summer. Nobody warned me about this until the cost was, as I said, 10 times above the normal bill level, and I could not believe the cost of data usage for a few minutes abroad was so expensive. This is why I will be leaving 0 2 so please 1. tell me when my contract expires 2. confirm you will not try to secretly or sneakily renew it without my knowledge. I don't want it renewed. Thank you"
The response was
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Dear N,
Thank you for contacting O2 Customer Care by email.
In response to your query, I am sorry to hear that you are considering leaving O2.
Your number is currently in contract until 07/0710 a “cancel contract fee” would be charged on your final bill if you were to cancel before this date. This is a calculation of your total charges until your end of contract date i.e. the recurring monthly charges that would occur for the remainder of your contracted period. This “cancel contract fee” amounts to €125.57 ex VAT.
We would not renew your contract unless you agreed to the same.
Roaming costs are clearly outlined on O2.ie and it is the customers onus to check the website and or to call customer care and query how much these charges would be.
I hope this is of assistance to you.
However, should you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Kind Regards,
A
O2 Customer Care"
I assumed on the 7th of July I would no longer have service with 02 but today I could still call and send texts so I mailed them to find out what was going on. As my mail above (24th march and on record) clearly states "I want to confirm I will be leaving the o2 network" I was surprised to receive the following today
Dear N,
Thank you for your email.
In your original email your only queried your contract with O2 & see how many months you have left on this.
Once your contract is up, you account still remains open & you continue to be billed as normal, your just not in an actual contract.
You must give us written confirmation if you wish to close or cancel your account. This was never done, so therefore no action was taken on your account without your request.
If you would like to cancel your account please request this in writing by sending an email to reachout@o2.com
To answer your below query, I can confirm that o2 are not trying to secretly nor sneakily renew your contract without your knowledge.
This is not a policy that o2 follows.
2. confirm you will not try to secretly or sneakily renew it without my knowledge. I don't want it renewed
Should you have any further queries, then please do not hesitate to contact o2 Customer Care on freephone 1909.
Regards,
M
O2 Ireland"
I feel the above email is a blatant lie and I should take legal action as I clearly stated i wanted nothing more to do with them and I did it in writing.
The lie is where she says"You must give us written confirmation if you wish to close or cancel your account. This was never done". I believe I clearly did this on 24th March email. I believe the mail above is just a blatant lie and I can't believe that they are still trying to milk me afterwhat happened in London last year and after giving almost four months notice that I was leaving.
Do I have a case?
What should I do next?
I was absolutely furious when I got that email earlier and I want to take action0
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1. tell me when my contract expires 2. confirm you will not try to secretly or sneakily renew it without my knowledge. I don't want it renewed. Thank you
What legal action would you be taking?
You asked them 2 questions, which they answered - but you didn't ask them to cancel the contract.
Saying you 'don't want it renewed' is not the same as saying 'I wish to cancel my contract with 02 from XX/XX/XXXX'.
Cancel it properly and get over it.0 -
AlwaysAmber wrote: »What legal action would you be taking?
You asked them 2 questions, which they answered - but you didn't ask them to cancel the contract.
Saying you 'don't want it renewed' is not the same as saying 'I wish to cancel my contract with 02 from XX/XX/XXXX'.
Cancel it properly and get over it.
I completely disagree, it's a question of semantics here, ok so i don't use the word cancel but I think I clearly stated my case here, I said I wanted to leave their network.
I knew of course, there would be always someone like you to jump in and stick the knife in when I posted this, there are always plenty of people like you around who get off on telling people it's their own fault. I know when stuff is my fault, I accept full responsibility for being idiotic enough to use the net abroad and usually I'm not one to whinge/complain. However I think you're talking shoite and I genuinely have a case. Thanks for your constructive input anyway.0 -
I know it's too late for you now, but on the o2 forums I have seen people complain/argue/query their unexpected high overseas data charges and they have usually gotten their bill reduced.0
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I completely disagree, it's a question of semantics here, ok so i don't use the word cancel but I think I clearly stated my case here, I said I wanted to leave their network.
I knew of course, there would be always someone like you to jump in and stick the knife in when I posted this, there are always plenty of people like you around who get off on telling people it's their own fault. I know when stuff is my fault, I accept full responsibility for being idiotic enough to use the net abroad and usually I'm not one to whinge/complain. However I think you're talking shoite and I genuinely have a case. Thanks for your constructive input anyway.
What kind of legal action do you think you can take and what would you expect the outcome to be? I think you are going slightly overboard here.0 -
I feel the above email is a blatant lie and I should take legal action as I clearly stated i wanted nothing more to do with them and I did it in writing.
What you feel is irrelevant, you didn't actually cancel your service with them, so they didn't stop it. Saying you don't want the contract renewed is not the same as cancelling. Your contract hasn't renewed, but your service will still continue. When you write to them, telling them you are giving your required 30 days cancellation notice, they will then cease the service after the 30 days.The lie is where she says"You must give us written confirmation if you wish to close or cancel your account. This was never done". I believe I clearly did this on 24th March email.
No, you didn't. Saying; This is why I will be leaving 0 2 so please 1. tell me when my contract expires 2. confirm you will not try to secretly or sneakily renew it without my knowledge. I don't want it renewed. is not a cancellation request, it's actually nothing at all. They don't renew contracts without your permission (usually it's renewed when you get an upgrade or change price plan), and not renewing will not terminate the service you have with them.I believe the mail above is just a blatant lie and I can't believe that they are still trying to milk me afterwhat happened in London last year and after giving almost four months notice that I was leaving.
The charge for data use while abroad was your own fault. You didn't bother to check what it would cost, and I can't believe there is still a single mobile phone user that hasn't heard that roaming charges are more expensive than those at home. My grandmother knows this, and she doesn't even have a mobile phone.Do I have a case?
No.
Follow correct procedure and cancel your service properly.What should I do next?I was absolutely furious when I got that email earlier and I want to take action
Be furious at yourself then, this is all your own doing.0 -
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Something is not right, 450 euro for 15 minutes of roaming ?? Get on to your customer care and give them a proper roasting. That is scandalous.0
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What you feel is irrelevant, you didn't actually cancel your service with them, so they didn't stop it. Saying you don't want the contract renewed is not the same as cancelling. Your contract hasn't renewed, but your service will still continue. When you write to them, telling them you are giving your required 30 days cancellation notice, they will then cease the service after the 30 days.
No, you didn't. Saying; This is why I will be leaving 0 2 so please 1. tell me when my contract expires 2. confirm you will not try to secretly or sneakily renew it without my knowledge. I don't want it renewed. is not a cancellation request, it's actually nothing at all. They don't renew contracts without your permission (usually it's renewed when you get an upgrade or change price plan), and not renewing will not terminate the service you have with them.
The charge for data use while abroad was your own fault. You didn't bother to check what it would cost, and I can't believe there is still a single mobile phone user that hasn't heard that roaming charges are more expensive than those at home. My grandmother knows this, and she doesn't even have a mobile phone.
No.
Follow correct procedure and cancel your service properly.
Be furious at yourself then, this is all your own doing.
I said I didn't want to be part of their network anymore, is there a set script I must use in order for them to understand I want out, some kind of template or something. Is saying "I want to confirm I will be leaving the 02 network at the end of my contract period" not a clear indication I want to cancel? Unless you're a moron I'd say it is.
as for all the other gufff you come out with there, I realise that smug self-satisfied patronising rubbish is the norm for you but 99% of what you wrote there I have already admitted to or is irrelevant but if it makes you feel better then go ahead, I find it quite sad but predictable0 -
I said I didn't want to be part of their network anymore, is there a set script I must use in order for them to understand I want out, some kind of template or something
Since you've apparently forgotten what you wrote to O2 in the first place, you should re-read your own post. Saying "This is why I will be leaving 0 2 so please " is not a request to end the service, it's a warning that you will be ending the service. Just because you don't get the answer you want, doesn't give you the right to take it out on other people.as for all the other gufff you come out with there, I realise that smug self-satisfied patronising rubbish is the norm for you but 99% of what you wrote there I have alreayd admitted or is irrelevant but if it makes you feel better then go ahead, I find it quite sad but predictable
Everything I've said is 100% true, and relevant to your post. If there's anything irrelevant to cancelling a service, it's because I was correcting your mistaken and deluded opinions of taking legal action against a company for your own inability to read and comprehend simple instructions.
I find it sad that you would try and blame you own ineptitude on me or anyone else, but then, I don't really find it all that surprising either.0 -
I said I didn't want to be part of their network anymore, is there a set script I must use in order for them to understand I want out, some kind of template or something. Is saying "I want to confirm I will be leaving the 02 network at the end of my contract period" not a clear indication I want to cancel? Unless you're a moron I'd say it is.
as for all the other gufff you come out with there, I realise that smug self-satisfied patronising rubbish is the norm for you but 99% of what you wrote there I have already admitted to or is irrelevant but if it makes you feel better then go ahead, I find it quite sad but predictable
Just send them an e-mail requesting cancellation and get over it
How difficult is that ?0 -
donfers - you need to take a deep breath and stop laying into other posters who are attempting to help. If you do not show more tolerance or respect, I will take action.
For the record, having read your email, I do not see any explicit statement requesting cancellation. I can't blame them o2 in this case.0 -
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now come on lads, leave the fella alone, he obviously is suffering with the Third phase of Consumer Remorse.
The first phase is where you realise that you bought / used / paid for something that you now regret due to lack of research, impulsion or plain stupidity.
The second phase is where you try and find fault with everyone and anyone, try to apportion the blame of your own actions on an other party (usually the Big Bad Corporation).
Third phase then slips in when it becomes obvious that the buyer is a fault and then tries to lash out and find someother problem, fault, issue to try and reclaim part of the loss they have made.
Phase four is generally the sheepish phase where it gradually sinks in that they don't have a leg to stand on, any good will gesture they are offered is a bonus and that they have sort of made a fool of them selves though their irrational actions and words during phases 1, 2 and 3.
Phase Five then is a breath of fresh air, the consumer becomes a more dilligent buyer of goods or services, has leard their lesson and generally will be more the wiser moving forward.
So, to the OP, try move through the phases a little quicker.
Could you tell me what you thought when you turned on Data Roaming on the iPhone and saw the warning that is embedded in to the iPhone at that button:
"Turn data roaming off when abroad to avoid substantial roaming charges when using email, web browsing and other data services"
How would this have given you the impression that the rate would be similar to what it is at home? What did you think 'Substantial' meant?
And to clarify, every iPhone has data roaming switched off by default when new or restored so it is the user who has to activate it to allow for data roaming !0 -
OP you have absolutely no legal recourse whatsoever. Cold hard fact, please don't attempt to doubt it.
You need to give 30 days notice in writing (email or snail mail) of your wish to cancel a contract. The 18 month contract length is not a maximum term, it is a minimum term. You signed a recurring contract under the condition thta you must keep it for a minimum of 18 months, not that it would automatically terminate.
Drop the drama about the roaming charges too, everyone knows they are high and the iPhone even gives you a bloody warning that you might get high charges. If you were in doubt then the sensible person would have checked the charges BEFORE incurring them.0 -
I'm really not sure what harm you think O2 have done to you.
1. You used a service and were charged for it as outlined in a contract that you agreed to.
2. You finished out your contract with O2 and as O2 have pointed out - your not under contract any more.
Your anger seems very misplaced.0 -
As others have said, you are not under contract any more.
There is only one way you may have a leg to stand on to take action. If o2 had renewed your contract, and were looking for an early termination few, say €765 as that would be 17 months of a renewed 18 month contract, then you may have a leg to stand on. You could potentially get them to give you any service you had used in the new contract for free and then leave, but you wouldn't really have a great case to sue on, compensation yes, suing no.
But that's not what happened, your contract expired and you are now free to leave, so email them instead of posting here. You can't sue them. I've a funny feeling that if o2 had in fact cut you off without any notice, you could easily be on here wanting to sue them for some reason due to you not having a phone. You made a mistake, learn you're lesson and get on with it.0 -
Read this thread, it may still be possible to terminate your contract, effective immediately, without any charges. This is about all you can do, other than plead with O2 to waive the notification period charge.0
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People like OP make my blood boil. I worked in tech support for a broadband company years ago and we had people like this on sometimes. If you were to read your post, word by word, you would realise you did not cancel. Take legal action?????? Lol. If companies were to cut off everyones phone when their contract expires they would have a lot of very pissed off ex-customers.0
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Unfortunately you got stung for high roaming rates on your iphone, however this isn't a secret, roaming charges have been huge since mobile phones have existed. Whether or not the costs for roaming are exorbitant or fair is one thing, but its up to you to check them. I have friends who have run up similar bills in Ireland, and although I feel sorry for them they really should have checked the small print. Its not O2's fault, unfortunately it was ignorance on your part not to check the rates.
You have absolutely no legal standing against O2, your original contract expired and you are on a seperate rolling month to month contract, where you're free to cancel whenever you want. This isn't "sneaky", this is just common service provider policy providing you the service to use which you indicated you would be cancelling but never actually did cancel. It's one thing saying "I will be cancelling in a few months on this date" and another saying "I'm calling to cancel my account". By texting and calling a few times like you said, you're agreeing to these rolling costs.
You have no legal standing at all, just cancel your rolling contract now and be done with it.0 -
OP You have just a little over 48 hours to bail out of 02 without penalty do so immediately before weekend "confusion" commences.
Call 1909 and ask for a release of your contract.0 -
I completely disagree, it's a question of semantics here, ok so i don't use the word cancel but I think I clearly stated my case here, I said I wanted to leave their network.
I knew of course, there would be always someone like you to jump in and stick the knife in when I posted this, there are always plenty of people like you around who get off on telling people it's their own fault. I know when stuff is my fault, I accept full responsibility for being idiotic enough to use the net abroad and usually I'm not one to whinge/complain. However I think you're talking shoite and I genuinely have a case. Thanks for your constructive input anyway.
You must inform O2 by writing, by post, that you wish to leave the network.
Once your contract term is completed you are free to leave the network at any time.
If they closed your account as you belive that you instructed them to, you would lose your number as you did not request them to port the number to another network.
You would have no case against them and if you were to actually try to sue them, they would probably hire the most expensive legal team possible, so that when your case is thrown out of court you would have to pay for them.0 -
If you get a new provider while you are still with O2, you will be able to port your number to the new service provider0
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lol
you're one of those people0 -
Run_to_da_hills wrote: »OP You have just a little over 48 hours to bail out of 02 without penalty do so immediately before weekend "confusion" commences.
Call 1909 and ask for a release of your contract.
The OP is already out of his O2 contract as of the 7th of July.0 -
As others have said, you are not under contract any more.Run_to_da_hills wrote: »Call 1909 and ask for a release of your contract.Frank Spencer wrote: »The OP is already out of his O2 contract as of the 7th of July.
Not quite correct on all three counts. The customer is still contacted to O2 but is no longer in a minimum term of commitment to that same contract. To terminate the contract he only has to give them 30 days' notice in writing.Once your contract term is completed you are free to leave the network at any time.
Correct.You must inform O2 by writing, by post, that you wish to leave the network.
Incorrect. An email to reachout@o2.com will do the trick.0 -
Not sure if you need to give notice now you are on a rolling contract, when I decided to change over we went to the carphone warehouse and they did the switch for us. We hadnt really planned it or anything but as my contract was up and I wanted a free iphone I switched to 02, who by the way I have no problems with.
You should have tried to negotiate the bill at the time and get it reduced somehow but I guess its too late for any of that now.0 -
smelltheglove wrote: »Not sure if you need to give notice now you are on a rolling contract
100% certain you do.0 -
Correct100% certain you do.
http://www.o2online.ie/wps/wcm/connect/O2/About+O2/Terms+and+Conditions/O2+Advance/Consumer+terms
10. Term and Termination
This Agreement commences on the date of your signature and will continue for the Term. During the Term, this Agreement may be ended by you giving O2 thirty days written notice. PLEASE NOTE that if this Agreement is terminated by you giving O2 thirty days written notice during the Term, you are liable for and must pay O2 the remaining total aggregate monthly subscription Charges up to the end of the Term. After the Term, this Agreement can be terminated by you by giving thirty days notice in writing to O2 from the next Billing Cycle. (Please see definition for "Billing Cycle" in Section 2 above). If you require clarification on when your Billing Cycle commences please contact O2 Customer Care on 1909. All Charges will continue to accrue until the relevant termination notice takes effect.
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No. At least not for this and expect to win.Can I take legal action against O2?
Here's the thing, you are another victim of O2's ambiguous and well hiden pricing. Welcome to the club buddy, you are not alone. Loads of people are stung like this and left feeling outraged. Ignore those that smugly give you the “shudda read the contract” bs like their so f* clever. What O2 do is as good as legal theft.
They put up on the big ad something like “€20 per month, it’s that simple” and “A company you can trust” and then you get a bill for 500quid and you’re thinking “wtf???” as they clean out your account. Then when you complain you are suddenly given clean and clear well rehearsed instructions on how to find the real pricing buried in the myriad of web pages about a half mile down the contract from a programmed drone in O2’s customer care that hears it all 100 times a day. And never will they insist that you check the pricing before you sign up. O2 are devious by design.
When you send in a letter to them like yours, they don't follow up with a call "...to be clear; do you want to cancel your service now?" naaa better just leave it and get another few quid out of him and argue the point that his letter was ambiguous. We have a huge legal team in London for that.
O2 is a predator company looking to legally victimise hard working people such as you.
If by small chance you haven’t paid off the bill then only offer to pay it on your terms, say €5 per week. Only communicate with them by regular post (it's inconvenient). Complain about them on the forums so that others are forewarned of the pitfalls of dealing with O2.
Drop the idea of suing them for this. You are one of the last few to be stung with these roaming charges as legislation has now be brought in to stop this from happening.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfcwmhgbmhsn/rss2/
P.S. Their letter was signed "M". Looks like you met Mary over the phone - they really gave you the O2 experience!0 -
No. At least not for this and expect to win.
Here's the thing, you are another victim of O2's ambiguous and well hiden pricing. Welcome to the club buddy, you are not alone. Loads of people are stung like this and left feeling outraged. Ignore those that smugly give you the “shudda read the contract” bs like their so f* clever. What O2 do is as good as legal theft.
They put up on the big ad something like “€20 per month, it’s that simple” and “A company you can trust” and then you get a bill for 500quid and you’re thinking “wtf???” as they clean out your account. Then when you complain you are suddenly given clean and clear well rehearsed instructions on how to find the real pricing buried in the myriad of web pages about a half mile down the contract from a programmed drone in O2’s customer care that hears it all 100 times a day. And never will they insist that you check the pricing before you sign up. O2 are devious by design.
When you send in a letter to them like yours, they don't follow up with a call "...to be clear; do you want to cancel your service now?" naaa better just leave it and get another few quid out of him and argue the point that his letter was ambiguous. We have a huge legal team in London for that.
O2 is a predator company looking to legally victimise hard working people such as you.
If by small chance you haven’t paid off the bill then only offer to pay it on your terms, say €5 per week. Only communicate with them by regular post (it's inconvenient). Complain about them on the forums so that others are forewarned of the pitfalls of dealing with O2.
Drop the idea of suing them for this. You are one of the last few to be stung with these roaming charges as legislation has now be brought in to stop this from happening.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/kfcwmhgbmhsn/rss2/
P.S. Their letter was signed "M". Looks like you met Mary over the phone - they really gave you the O2 experience!
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ahh .. Bosshog .. I was wondering when you would throw your two cents in to this thread.
Despite what you may accuse the telecoms companies of ... the reality is that the OP turned Data Roaming to the ON setting on his iPhone, which has this big warning written beside it:
Turn data roaming off when abroad to avoid substantial roaming charges when using email, web browsing, and other data services
This isn't hidden or buries beneath a myriad of small print in the terms and conditions but is there by default on all iphones. The OP would have had to see this and choose not to check what the SUBSTANTIAL charges would be.
In fairness to the OP he has acknowledged the fact that he was at fault for not checking this out .. his beef now is that he feels that his comments to O2 were a formal cancellation of his contract while every one else here seems to take the view that his wording did not mount to a contract termination request.
But no doubt you will accuse me of being employed by O2 and not willing to 'stand up to the man' but you will just be trashing out the usual rants that you have done a few time previously.
The OP's question was about the legalities of the issue, which are black and white and no amount of your ill feeling to O2 can change these facts0 -
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I'm sorry... Where does it clearly state the charges since you're so clever and directing everything at me and presuming what I will write next? If they can send him a **** welcome message everytime he enters a new country why not add in some useful information about pricing. Where is it flashing on his phone "If you use this phone in the UK to look up the weather and few soccer results we are going to shaft your pay packet"?ahh .. Bosshog .. I was wondering when you would throw your two cents in to this thread.
Despite what you may accuse the telecoms companies of ... the reality is that the OP turned Data Roaming to the ON setting on his iPhone, which has this big warning written beside it:
Turn data roaming off when abroad to avoid substantial roaming charges when using email, web browsing, and other data services
This isn't hidden or buries beneath a myriad of small print in the terms and conditions but is there by default on all iphones. The OP would have had to see this and choose not to check what the SUBSTANTIAL charges would be.
In fairness to the OP he has acknowledged the fact that he was at fault for not checking this out .. his beef now is that he feels that his comments to O2 were a formal cancellation of his contract while every one else here seems to take the view that his wording did not mount to a contract termination request.
But no doubt you will accuse me of being employed by O2 and not willing to 'stand up to the man' but you will just be trashing out the usual rants that you have done a few time previously.
The OP's question was about the legalities of the issue, which are black and white and no amount of your ill feeling to O2 can change these facts
You might not work for O2 but you certainly are among the arogant few that my dear ol' grandad would describe with "ya see these fellas?.. they think the know it all,.. they think they know it all.... but they know f*all!"
Ahh I do miss him for his kind appreciation of the youth today.:rolleyes:
You don't have to wonder when I'll turn up. I'll be here until the government caps the comms for the benefit of the people.0
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