Who's the bigger hero: Shat-Kirk or Pine-Kirk?

Klingon Hamlet

Just going by the films here:

I:

• Ruthless and strangely inhuman in this one.
• Swipes Decker's command of the Enterprise without much sympathy.
• Nearly kills the entire crew sending Enterprise into warp early.

II:

• Absentee dad.
• Pain in the ass with his friends.
• Decides not to tell his Away Team, his newly-rediscovered son and his ex about the "By The Book" plan ("hours, instead of days").

III:

• Replaces Carol Marcus' lecture on Genesis with his own---exactly the same, word-for word.
• Loses his son---and, to be fair---is heartbroken, only to recover completely mere minutes later!
• Dismisses a quite emotional Sarek about losing his ship and son. (Seems only losing Spock could truly cos him his "soul". Bye David. Too bad.)

IV:

• Risked the entire timeline based on a hunch.
• Took a 20th century lady with him, thereby risking The Butterfly Effect.

V:

• "I lost a brother once." Implying Spock. Forgetting completely about his non-Vulcan, biologicaly brother lost in TOS.

VI:

• "Let them die". I love Nicholas Meyer's take on Trek, but this was too much. (Remember, he could see eye-to-eye with Klaa and Korrd in V---what happened in 2 years?!).

VII:

• Has no interest in saving the galaxy at Picard's behest---basically an overstuffed child content with reliving past events.

I thought about this because so many people derided Kirk 2.0 for his snarky opportunistic role in Trek XI. But then I realised that Pine's version is actually more likeable:

• He passed the Kobayashi Maru test not just because "I don't like to lose", as stated in II, but rather, on principle. He wanted to make a point.
• In deleted scenes we see the Orion lady helped him cheat, and he actually wanted to make amends---but went to the wrong girl (whoops).
• His fight in the bar was as much the Fleet jocks' fault as his own---they outnumbered him, and Uhura was laughing at his chat-up lines.
• He argued with authority a lot and fans saw this as petulance but consider it: he had a tougher upbringing with an overbearing, abusive step-dad/uncle (never made clear) so he was used to being ignored/put down.
• His race to the bridge may wel have saved Enterprise--she went to red alert, ready for the imminent attack.
• He nearly died saving Sulu.
• He got kicked off the Enterprise for wanting to save Pike and stop the Narada---which, if it had originally been agreed, may well have kept Pike from a wheelchair. Admittedly, it may have failed, if Chekov did not think of a sneak attack as he did later in the film.
• He was a jerk to Spock, but only after the Prime Spock insisted on it. And remember, Spock earlier got nasty with his comments on Kirk's father's untimely demise. The Vulcan did it first!!
• He let by-gones be by-gones and became good friends with a slightly unhinged logicphile.
• He literally saved the planet, because he refused to accept defeat.

So, yeah. Colour me impressed. JJ/Pine's Kirk is actually,IMHo, more heroic.

nyarlothothep

The Shat is a legend at this stage, Pine is essentially starting out but moreover he has yet to define a character of his own, as long as he plays Kirk in a Shat way he will never rival the Shat. In a fundamental sense Picard can rival the Shat as he isn't trying to compete with him in the first place, Picard is equally as good as the Shat for his own niche, Stewart has defined an equally iconic character, though one not as popular per se but just as distinctive.

Johnny Storm

The Shat first played Kirk in 1966 (:eek:?) and we're still talking about him. That's the stuff of legends.
I enjoyed Pine as Kirk. Will anyone still be talking about that performance in 2052?

Klingon Hamlet

Johnny Storm wrote: »

The Shat first played Kirk in 1966 (:eek:?) and we're still talking about him. That's the stuff of legends.
I enjoyed Pine as Kirk. Will anyone still be talking about that performance in 2052?

I suppose Shatner was the Adam West of his particular genre. Pine is more the Michael Keaton---appreciated by some, doubted by others, made the role his own though.

Shatner is as well-known for his ego as he is his character though, in fairness and he last played Kirk only 16 years ago. So yeah I think Pine'll be remembered in 2025.