"Beat the Bitch - How to stop the other woman stealing your man"

Chinafoot

Right, so I was in work on Wednesday and was going through some of the new stock that had arrived and I was greeted with this title by Tess Stimpson.
Here is the blurb on the back of the book (taken from amazon):

Want to keep your man all to yourself? If so, you need to read this book. In Beat the Bitch, Tess Stimson, self-confessed scarlet woman and wronged wife delivers a self-help book with a difference. Written in short, snappy chapters and packed with unmissable advice, anecdotes, quizzes and humour, Beat the Bitch tells every woman things she won’t want to hear - but needs to. From this book you will discover:

* How to put the spark back into your relationship

* Whether your partner is vulnerable to attack from another woman

* How to find out if he is really being unfaithful . . . and exactly what to do if he is.

Beat the Bitch will be the must-read self-help title of 2009. As Tess herself says, should the worst come to the worst, Don’t Get Mad - Get Diamonds.

Now I personally find this pretty ridiculous and a bit offensive really. Obviously I haven't read the whole thing but from what I saw it seems to imply that men are innocent victims that need to be protected from predatory harlots out to steal them. The affairs are the fault of these hussies leading your man astray, and there is very little, if any, responsibility placed on the man in the relationship. If anyone has read the whole book I'd love to hear what you thought of it. I personally can't bring myself to read something that contains a "magic spell" to put the spark back in your relationship...names carved in candles covered in olive oil are apparantly preferrable to communication it seems.

Are there women out there that blame the other woman? Do you believe that anyone can really be "stolen" if they don't want to be?

Emm511

I googled this book a while ago I had heard some hype about it think on Oprah or something. I didnt buy it.

But I have bought other books along the same lines as men who love bitches and why he marries the bitch ( or something like that)
I bought these paticular books when I was in a very strange place regarding the releationships in my life and was reaching out for someting to make some sense of it all.
They are basically saying that Men like stong women and dont always be available for them, make them wait etc

I take it all with a pinch of salt.

I dont believe a man can be "stolen" unless he wants to be but i have met a lot of very persusive women and it shames me to say I also have been that women that presuded someone elses man.

Catari Jaguar

• Ah Christ, if "your man" (:rolleyes:) can't stay faithful then he;s not worth your time
  
• If he wants another women then maybe you're just not compatible and SHOULD break up
  
• If you can't be yourself around him - break up
  
• If you can't trust him, there's no point in being together.

Could be a funny book alright, but oh at times I hate my gender! :P

pollypocket10

IMHO It sounds to me like this wronged wife has found a way to justify, to herself & the world, staying with a man who cheated on her :rolleyes:

Squegee

I used to like this place, the LL and the "other" point of view, just to keep abreast of stuff, but lately I don't do sensationalist.

Chinafoot

Squegee wrote: »

I used to like this place, the LL and the "other" point of view, just to keep abreast of stuff, but lately I don't do sensationalist.

Slightly unnecessary. If you don't like a topic, by all means ignore it.
I don't see how I'm being sensationalist. I saw the book and its written by a woman for women, so I'm asking the ladies of the lounge for their opinion.

Squegee

Chinafoot wrote: »

Slightly unnecessary. If you don't like a topic, by all means ignore it.
I don't see how I'm being sensationalist. I saw the book and its written by a woman for women, so I'm asking the ladies of the lounge for their opinion.

OK.
That was a bit OTT:(

Silverfish

Squegee, if you have an issue with something, please report it, rather than dragging threads off topic. If you don't like the forum or a thread that is not breaking any rules, then I'm afraid you just have to exercise your options of not reading it.

Thanks.

Squegee

Silverfish wrote: »

Squegee, if you have an issue with something, please report it, rather than dragging threads off topic. If you don't like the forum or a thread that is not breaking any rules, then I'm afraid you just have to exercise your options of not reading it.

Thanks.

See previous post, I appreciate it, I type slow too:)

Stheno

I'd see the book as being a little paranoid tbh

My bf has loads (fecking zillions) of female friends, some of whom make me vow to spend every free minute I have attending to my appearance, grooming myself to within an inch of my life, and dieting myself into tinyness.

The after those moments pass, I remind myself that he is with me, likes my bitten nails, tells me I look great after my hair has been frizzed by the rain, and is a great friend.

I reckon it comes down to trust, he goes out with his male/female mates regularly and comes home and regales me with stories, but I don't feel the need to stop anyone else stealing him

seenitall

No one can be "stolen" from anyone else, because no one is anyone else's property.

If a person cheats, they are not trustworthy, and therefore not worthy of being anyone's OH.

It is not a person's duty either to stop a bitch/bastard from stealing their husband or to stop the husband/wife from cheating.

It is a husband's or wife's duty not to cheat. If he/she can't fulfill it, he/she better hit the road.

I would rather live my life following these little pieces of common sense, then read a thousand women-degrading books such as the one from the OP (by the sounds of it).

gbee

Chinafoot wrote: »

from what I saw it seems to imply that men are innocent victims that need to be protected from predatory harlots out to steal them.

Yes! Fact!

AND, a man can fall in love on a weekly basis, in my case, a man, my defence to my wide, now 29 years married, was; if I'm not in love with another woman every week, I'm dead!

I went to my wife a virgin in 1980, and despite my statement, have not had extramarital experience.

But it was not without its temptations, my wife protected me.

iguana

pollypocket10 wrote: »

IMHO It sounds to me like this wronged wife has found a way to justify, to herself & the world, staying with a man who cheated on her :rolleyes:

Not just a wronged wife but a former mistress. It seems to me that she is someone who is attracted to a particular type of man. The type who would cheat on his wife (with her) and the type who would cheat on (her) his wife. But instead of working out why she is attracted to that particular type and maybe learning to be attracted to a different type she has decided all men are helplessly controlled by their sexual urges and will cheat whenever tempted by a sneaky temptress.

And she's made a career out of this, she's written a clutch of chick-lit books about adultery. I made the horrendous mistake of reading one once. It was easily one of the worst books I've ever read.

reallyrose

I've been allowing my OH to walk about the place, prey for any female who comes into contact with him. I've now locked him up in the basement, so no one can have him and he is protected from nasty harlots.

Thanks Tess Stimson!

iguana

Seems she married the man she was mistress to and he later cheated on her and left her for his new mistress.

Having been the youthful mistress of an older, married man, she describes her discovery that the same man, having married her, was cheating again, as her karma. "Eight years after we married, I got careless. And, yes, a little tired of attending to the needs of my high maintenance alpha-male husband. Another woman (later wife number four) scented blood in the water and swooped in, stealing my man. It was no more than I deserved: the great karma credit plan."

http://www.herald.ie/lifestyle/hands-off-2217148.html

Lots of clangers in there but I love this bit best;

Three out of four men have cheated, or will cheat, on their wives and/or girlfriends, she believes,

Catari Jaguar

Reminds me of those cringey episodes of Jerry Springer, when the hick couple are sitting there and the "other woman" comes out, the audience boos (even though they don't boo the man... ) and for some backwards reason the girlfriend lunges wildly at the other woman for "stealing her man". This catch of a man just sits there smirking or looking away. Bloody hell ladies, tell him to hit the road, don't go on TV and make a fool of yourself and blame some other chick because "your man" can't keep it in his pants and have a normal comitted relationship.

Xiney

*sigh*

oh, I cry for my gender sometimes

The Sweeper

seenitall wrote: »

No one can be "stolen" from anyone else, because no one is anyone else's property.

If a person cheats, they are not trustworthy, and therefore not worthy of being anyone's OH.

It is not a person's duty either to stop a bitch/bastard from stealing their husband or to stop the husband/wife from cheating.

It is a husband's or wife's duty not to cheat. If he/she can't fulfill it, he/she better hit the road.

I would rather live my life following these little pieces of common sense, then read a thousand women-degrading books such as the one from the OP (by the sounds of it).

I haven't read the book the OP mentioned either, but just wanted to raise a point.

Very few people who are married or in a long-term serious relationship cheat because of poor impulse control. They cheat because they are unhappy, and because something is wrong in the relationship. Obviously cheating isn't the solution, but it does happen.

There are plenty of serial cheaters who bounce from partner to partner, but they don't tend to settle for a long time with one person (because nobody will have them).

The only problem with a long term relationship is complacency. Being complacent is absolutlely fine if you're sure the status quo is somewhere that you're both happy, but not if only one person is happy.

These books capitalise on the insecurities of women bombarded by the statistics and media stories of cheating men, but they focus on avoiding complacency. They're usually full of suggestions like cooking him dinner, offering sex in unusual spaces, taking time out to listen to how bad his day was, doing something nice for him as a surprise, and generally remembering to shave your pits and put some mascara on every so often.

The reason they SELL is because many people in long-term relationships DO become complacent; and they stop being nice to their partner. (That's the easiest blanket term I can find to cover the suggestions these books give). Relationships fall apart all of the time.

You can say that if someone can't be trusted you should lose them, or if they can't be faithful then they shouldn't stick around in the first place, but I'd be of the opinion that occasionally you should take a look at yourself in your relationship, and make sure that you're behaving like the sort of person you'd like to be with yourself. I think that's a loose version of the premise most of these books are based on.

Chinafoot

The Sweeper wrote: »

You can say that if someone can't be trusted you should lose them, or if they can't be faithful then they shouldn't stick around in the first place, but I'd be of the opinion that occasionally you should take a look at yourself in your relationship, and make sure that you're behaving like the sort of person you'd like to be with yourself. I think that's a loose version of the premise most of these books are based on.

I take your point and I do agree with the above, but for both parties. I guess the issue I took with what I've seen of the book is that the onus seemed to be on the woman and the woman only. I don't believe anyone can be stolen unless there are problems in their relationship but I don't think it's fair that the woman needs to do all the work to keep the problems at bay or to protect their men from harlots.

amacachi

cherub rock wrote: »

Reminds me of those cringey episodes of Jerry Springer, when the hick couple are sitting there and the "other woman" comes out, the audience boos (even though they don't boo the man... ) and for some backwards reason the girlfriend lunges wildly at the other woman for "stealing her man". This catch of a man just sits there smirking or looking away. Bloody hell ladies, tell him to hit the road, don't go on TV and make a fool of yourself and blame some other chick because "your man" can't keep it in his pants and have a normal comitted relationship.

Same thing happens the other way too, it's not gender exclusive.

seenitall

The Sweeper wrote: »

I haven't read the book the OP mentioned either, but just wanted to raise a point.

Very few people who are married or in a long-term serious relationship cheat because of poor impulse control. They cheat because they are unhappy, and because something is wrong in the relationship. Obviously cheating isn't the solution, but it does happen.

There are plenty of serial cheaters who bounce from partner to partner, but they don't tend to settle for a long time with one person (because nobody will have them).

The only problem with a long term relationship is complacency. Being complacent is absolutlely fine if you're sure the status quo is somewhere that you're both happy, but not if only one person is happy.

These books capitalise on the insecurities of women bombarded by the statistics and media stories of cheating men, but they focus on avoiding complacency. They're usually full of suggestions like cooking him dinner, offering sex in unusual spaces, taking time out to listen to how bad his day was, doing something nice for him as a surprise, and generally remembering to shave your pits and put some mascara on every so often.

The reason they SELL is because many people in long-term relationships DO become complacent; and they stop being nice to their partner. (That's the easiest blanket term I can find to cover the suggestions these books give). Relationships fall apart all of the time.

You can say that if someone can't be trusted you should lose them, or if they can't be faithful then they shouldn't stick around in the first place, but I'd be of the opinion that occasionally you should take a look at yourself in your relationship, and make sure that you're behaving like the sort of person you'd like to be with yourself. I think that's a loose version of the premise most of these books are based on.

No. This post is actually making me see red, :mad: especially the bolded parts.

"The reason they SELL is because many people in long-term relationships DO become complacent; and they stop being nice to their partner." The reason these books sell (to women) is because they play on women's insecurities about their property being stolen, nothing more, nothing less. They play on people's deep-seated protective and proprietary instincts. Playing on people's baser instincts and their insecurities is humiliating and degrading.

The reason these books sell have NOTHING to do with people becoming complacent, but everything to do with women being made to believe that it is THEIR fault if their husbands stray. This is very distressing for me to see.

SOMEONE'S ACTIONS ARE NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ANYONE ELSE, even if the someone else is a wife who has gained 5 stone since the wedding and has stopped cooking dinner. If you are not happy, you talk to her, if you see that communication doesn't get you anywhere, then you leave. But no, I guess you want to carry on being comfortable, keep your status quo, your house, your family (so much easier), and get yourself some light relief on the side. In other other words, you start living a comfortable, convenient, SELFISH lie, every day of your life. Nice. The marriage that had been problematic and should have been ended, now becomes a matter of convenience for you, and a matter of utter, debilitating heartbreak for your wife when things come to light, as they usually do. Well, that certainly showed her not to neglect you, her weight, your dinner, or her mascara, or the punishment will be swift and cruel indeed. :mad:

All that aside, I believe this "Very few people who are married or in a long-term serious relationship cheat because of poor impulse control. They cheat because they are unhappy, and because something is wrong in the relationship" to be utter BS anyway. A classic case of redistributing the responsibility for the wrong-doing on the injured party. Of course people cheat "because" they can - if the opportunity presents itself, baser and selfish pleasure instinct will prevail - not for all, but for a good many. Absolutely FA to do with the state of the home hearth. Ask Peadar da Burca, he put a bit more research into this than you have.

"The only problem with a long term relationship is complacency." OK, this is just laughable...

"I'd be of the opinion that occasionally you should take a look at yourself in your relationship, and make sure that you're behaving like the sort of person you'd like to be with yourself." Absolutely. Just don't ever make the mistake of thinking that "complacency" has anything to do with the hubby playing away. If you start believing that guff, your marriage (minus the respect and the trust, of course :rolleyes:) may continue, but you can say bye bye to your self-esteem.

Wibbs

If "SOMEONE'S ACTIONS ARE NOT THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ANYONE ELSE" then lets examine an imaginary extreme(or maybe not that extreme). Imagine a woman in a loveless marriage, a marriage without physical or emotional intimacy. All entreaties by her to her husband are met with dismissal or aggression. Now if she had an affair, even an emotional one without any hanky panky, is she entirely to blame? I would say not. It is rarely the case IMHO where the victim is 100% in the right and the perp 100% in the wrong. Just like the vast majority of arguments. Of course one could argue she could just leave, but all sorts of factors can preclude it and that isn't always as easy to do as it is to type or say. A man who leaves can very easily lose everything but the clothes on his back and access to his kids. A woman who leaves may be left penniless trying to raise a family, especially if she's been a stay at home mother.

A marriage requires two people with some sort of balanced mutual effort at play. This can ebb and flow between the two over time of course but overall it should be a partnership. If one partner is consistently not holding up their end of the bargain something is very wrong. People do drop the ball too. Ive seen it happen often enough. Hell Ive done it myself. In pretty much every case, but one where I was cheated on I can look back and with honest eyes and as much objectivity as I can muster and can see my role in them to some degree or other. Does this negate the cheaters sense of responsibility for crossing that line? No of course not, but neither does it negate my small part to play in that line being reached in the first place. And as a man Im talking about women straying here.

Like the Sweeper said there exists a sub group of serial cheaters out there. IME and my humble I would say that over a lifetime they're actually rare enough. There are a lot more in peoples 20's, than in their 50's. Some people run one relationship into the next with overlap and in that overlap lays cheating(more women than men tend to do this). Some people in their late teens require a love GPS to figure out who they're with this week.:) Is that the same as a guy leaving his wife and kids for a younger model in his job? Nope. There are scales in this.

I would agree with the Sweepers post and I would aim it at men as well as women. Men can get very complacent indeed and not put the work in. If I'm becoming complacent and its affecting my relationship then it should stand to me to recognise that and change that. If it has no effect and she still goes off and cheats then hard though it may be I can look myself in the eye and be the better person. If I'm piling on the lard and becoming unattractive then I should do something about that. If I'm becoming less emotionally involved then I should do something about that. I would do both for me primarily with the great side effect of it improving our relationship. The fact is outside of romantic movies love is conditional. They may be very broad conditions but they exist. Cross them at your peril.

seenitall

Right, Wibbs.

Complacency is a million light years away from someone who has been emotionally and mentally run down by domestic abuse etc. but even in that case I still stand by the tenet of personal responsibility. We are all only responsible for what WE do, not what a cheating or an abusive husband/wife is doing. And therefore what you have just proffered is a very convincing apologia for cheating. It makes sense, yes, but it still doesn't make it right. Whatever way you look at it, it means taking the line of least resistance at best (in the case of the desparate, battered wife), or callously following one's own selfish desires at worst (they know who they are...).

Love is conditional, yes - that is one thing I know well. But one thing that is even more fragile, even more conditional than love is a marriage that is being eroded by trust-shattering betrayal. Without trust, there is no relationship to speak of anyway. Cheating will in most cases destroy marriages, homes, people's self-esteem and any remnant of trust that has ever been in a relationship. There is NO excuse for cheating, put whatever spin you want on it.

Lying is wrong. The liar will only end up hurting someone in the process, even if it is only themselves (battered wife, more than likely). There is simply NO two ways about this.

Wibbs

Its not an apologia for anything. Merely an explanation as I see it of the grey areas that exist in life. And of course there are more than two ways about this. Lying itself is a huge grey area. We do it all the time. We lie to ourselves, we lie to others. It's a sliding scale all the way from someone who just cheats for no good reason while in a good relationship, to the person who cheats because the marriage/relationship is dead on its feet. No drama, no big reason, just dead. All the way to someone cheating out of an abusive relationship. There's also the one off cheat, who gets píssed and cheats. Never meant to do it amd wouldnt do it again. Sometimes shít just happens.

I also apportion some responsibility however tiny to the victim in the vast majority of cases. If its always the other persons fault, then we will never learn. Blame is for the schoolyard IMHO. Yes we can suffer a deep emotional trauma from it and be very affected by it, but when the dust settles if we dont at least look honestly and objectively at what part we may have played in it then we've lost teh chance to learn from it. Even if, especially if, we realise we didnt have anything to do with it.


For the record I'm certainly not positing any excuse for cheating from personal reasons. Ive never cheated on a partner, though I have been cheated on more than once. Badly in a couple of cases. I seek simply to understand the whys of it rather than rant about it. All the better to avoid it in future and most of all to avoid it in myself.

trebor28

just a couple of points from my point of view.

1. every guy in the world gets more attention when they are in a relationship than when they are single. most women know this too. (not condoning cheating, but women are always chasing attached guys)

2. why do these books even go into production? because they prey on womens insecurities?
why are there little or no mens books out there for this type of thing? men are not so insecure.
if there was no market for these books they wouldnt be sold. women cant handle guilt or blame so therefore they need someone else to blame. ie either the other woman or the man.

Emme

iguana wrote: »

Seems she married the man she was mistress to and he later cheated on her and left her for his new mistress.

"Having been the youthful mistress of an older, married man, she describes her discovery that the same man, having married her, was cheating again, as her karma. "Eight years after we married, I got careless. And, yes, a little tired of attending to the needs of my high maintenance alpha-male husband. Another woman (later wife number four) scented blood in the water and swooped in, stealing my man. It was no more than I deserved: the great karma credit plan."

http://www.herald.ie/lifestyle/hands-off-2217148.html

Lots of clangers in there but I love this bit best;

The late Sir James Goldsmith said that when a man marries his mistress he creates a vacancy.

The author of this book is yet another chancer trying to get rich at the expense of women's insecurities. :rolleyes:

seenitall

When I said lying, I meant it in the context of cheating. I am well aware of all the little white lies that go on between and within people on a daily basis, but cheating is a whole different kind of lying (hurtful, intentional betrayal), so I guess you are right about the grey areas of lying.

I am also aware of the sliding scale of cheaters, although I don't get what argument exactly you are trying to make by bringing the plethora of all those different possibilities into this, unless it is to defend cheating in certain instances - it is STILL all cheating, and the cheating is still being done by cheaters. (Feeling a bit frustrated here:(, I don't know how I can put it across any clearer than I am.)

You can tell me if you think that I am being very naive or something, but all my experience of knowing cheaters (not many, admittedly, a few cases) is about guys who are perfectly happy with their long-standing relationships/marriages, they just happen to like having a bit on the side. I have heard it from the horse's mouth, as well. I have a friend who cheats on his girlfriend whenever a cute opportunity presents itself, at the same time speaking of the g/f very affectionately indeed. I will NOT concede that this girl is in any way, shape or form playing a part in being taken for a fool. He wouldn't be so brazen-faced about how much he loves her if it were any other way, and I am sure I would have heard all about her serious deficiencies if there were any. Sadly, she adores the ground he walks on.

I get what you are saying about victims' responsibility, I just think it is a very slippery slope and all too often used to conveniently redistribute blame from the cheater to the victim. As if the victim isn't left devastated, betrayed and stripped of their self-esteem enough as it is. It is WRONG, and I am writing it in capitals because that is how strongly I feel about this, not because my opinion is infallible or more worthy than anyone else's.

Smallbit

seenitall wrote: »

You can tell me if you think that I am being very naive or something, but all my experience of knowing cheaters (not many, admittedly, a few cases) is about guys who are perfectly happy with their long-standing relationships/marriages, they just happen to like having a bit on the side.

Fair enough, I've seen a lot of this too, but it is a bit simplistic. I know more than a few married females who behave like this and have no intention of leaving their husbands.

I cheated on my ex, and I don't feel great about it, but it was a precursor to leaving - had I been happy, I wouldn't have cheated. But I take responsibility for it - despite whatever marriage troubles I believe led up to that point.

But just because I know that full well that people cheat, I don't subscribe to those books designed to capitalise on insecurity. I found another example the other day browsing in my (single) friend's bookshelf:

http://www.amazon.com/Wonderful-Why-Still-Single-Strategies/dp/0609809091

Another fine example of the crap designed to sell to insecure women!

Black Swan

"If you love something
Set it free.
If it comes back,
It is yours.
If it doesn't,
It never was."


Interesting quote? Sorry, I cannot remember the author.

Jenneke87

How about we just start putting some faith in our boyfriends and believe that they are with us for a reason? It´s not other women that our our enemies, it our lack of selfworth that we constantely think he´ll go off with someone else the moment another woman as much as says:"hi" to our men.

Elle Collins

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

"If you love something
Set it free.
If it comes back,
It is yours.
If it doesn't,
It never was."


Interesting quote? Sorry, I cannot remember the author.

You got the last line of that wrong Blue Lagoon. It ends: 'If it doesn't, it was never meant to be'. The author is anonymous.

seenitall

Smallbit wrote: »

Fair enough, I've seen a lot of this too, but it is a bit simplistic. I know more than a few married females who behave like this and have no intention of leaving their husbands.

What's a bit simplistic? I never brought gender into this. It just so happens that personally I only know a few guys who cheat, and the way they do it. I am well aware that women do the same thing and in the same way (callously and selfishly, never intending to leave their OHs) - this is just my point. There are so many people out there who behave in this manner, that I think we should be very, very careful when playing "Redistribute the responsibility for the cheating" game, and that "complacency" as some kind of justification for cheating really takes the biscuit!

If you feel you have been made to cheat by an unhappy marriage, fine. Whatever your conscience can live with. But just because cases like yours exist, we shouldn't be going around apportioning responsibility for the cheating on its victims as a given.

I have gone way off-topic with all this, I fully intend to stop! Very soon.:)

smoggy11

seenitall, can I ask if you have ever been cheated on, or indeed cheated on someone?

The reasons for people in committed relationships cheating are rarely as simple as "Oh, there's a hot person, I think I'll have a go with them" More often than not it is because of unhappiness in their relationship,or not feeling understood by their partners. Jesus, you only have to go over to personal issues to see that over and over again.

Also, it is not wrong to level some blame at the 'victims'. Even that word is ridiculous. People who get cheated on aren't victims, they are people who were cheated on! I have been cheated on, and I accept that there were things I could have done differently that would have resulted in a different outcome. That has no effect on my self-esteem, it's just making sense of what happened and knowing how to do things differently.

Complacency is one of the biggest problems long term relationships face. If the previous poster had said that "the spark going out of the relationship" was the problem instead of complacency, I doubt you would have taken such an affront to it.

The author of the book is doing nothing more than playing on womens insecurities, as many have done before her and many will continue to do after her.

Smallbit

seenitall wrote: »

What's a bit simplistic? I never brought gender into this. It just so happens that personally I only know a few guys who cheat, and the way they do it. I am well aware that women do the same thing and in the same way (callously and selfishly, never intending to leave their OHs) - this is just my point. There are so many people out there who behave in this manner, that I think we should be very, very careful when playing "Redistribute the responsibility for the cheating" game, and that "complacency" as some kind of justification for cheating really takes the biscuit!

As I said in my post, I take responsibility for cheating. No one made me do it. My point was that the reasons for, and the ways in which, people cheat are infinite. As an example, I use my own case. I don't try to apportion blame to my ex, but if he'd been different, or agreed to discuss certain matters, or had compromised on certain issues rather than stonewalling, I'd have been content to work on my marriage. In the event, he didn't compromise or agree to discuss matters (which btw centred around him insisting on having another child and me giving up my career). I essentially gave up on the marriage and cheated. That was my choice, I don't blame him. However, had he acted in a reasonable way, I would have been happy to continue in the relationship and would not have cheated.

I'm simply trying to illustrate the point that life isn't simple, and one's options are never black and white. There are shades of grey to consider.

seenitall

smoggy11 wrote: »

seenitall, can I ask if you have ever been cheated on, or indeed cheated on someone?

The reasons for people in committed relationships cheating are rarely as simple as "Oh, there's a hot person, I think I'll have a go with them" More often than not it is because of unhappiness in their relationship,or not feeling understood by their partners. Jesus, you only have to go over to personal issues to see that over and over again.

Also, it is not wrong to level some blame at the 'victims'. Even that word is ridiculous. People who get cheated on aren't victims, they are people who were cheated on! I have been cheated on, and I accept that there were things I could have done differently that would have resulted in a different outcome. That has no effect on my self-esteem, it's just making sense of what happened and knowing how to do things differently.

Complacency is one of the biggest problems long term relationships face. If the previous poster had said that "the spark going out of the relationship" was the problem instead of complacency, I doubt you would have taken such an affront to it.

The author of the book is doing nothing more than playing on womens insecurities, as many have done before her and many will continue to do after her.

"seenitall, can I ask if you have ever been cheated on, or indeed cheated on someone?" - Yes and no.

"The reasons for people in committed relationships cheating are rarely as simple as "Oh, there's a hot person, I think I'll have a go with them" More often than not it is because of unhappiness in their relationship,or not feeling understood by their partners. Jesus, you only have to go over to personal issues to see that over and over again." -

-This is not my personal experience of cheating, or of what I see and hear around me, as I have outlined in my other posts. Your "rarely" is my "often", I'm afraid. Personal issues thread will of course have a slant with people being unhappy and considering cheating, rather than the people who are perfectly happy with their relationships and perfectly happy to cheat as well - their reason for staying away from PI threads is to be found with their general happiness and oneness with the world at large.

"Also, it is not wrong to level some blame at the 'victims'. Even that word is ridiculous. People who get cheated on aren't victims, they are people who were cheated on! I have been cheated on, and I accept that there were things I could have done differently that would have resulted in a different outcome. That has no effect on my self-esteem, it's just making sense of what happened and knowing how to do things differently."-

- Fine, I am glad your self-esteem wasn't affected. That doesn't mean this doesn't happen.

Complacency is one of the biggest problems long term relationships face. If the previous poster had said that "the spark going out of the relationship" was the problem instead of complacency, I doubt you would have taken such an affront to it. -

- Nope. Disagree with this, as I have outlined in my other posts, but that's ok too. All I have is an opinion, it's as valid as anyone else's.

"The author of the book is doing nothing more than playing on womens insecurities, as many have done before her and many will continue to do after her." -

- Agreed. That is exactly what enrages me about the book so much. If someone has insecurities, they should deal with them before going to buy a book that will stoke their issues and tell them how to beat the bitch. Beating the bitch will do absolutely nothing for their insecurities, there will more than likely be another bitch around the corner. What a way to live a life. The most empowering thing there is is self-love, self-respect, and self-esteem that will rise out of leaving the bitch and the cheater to their own responsiblities and their own devices.

MJOR

Jeeny Mac... I would hate to think that my husband would fall "prey" to one of these women, it's a total cop out... Anybody that took their vows and scoot off with the first tart that shows them legs akimbo should be ashamed of themselves. You have a duty / obligation to your wife/ GF/ Partner to tell her you want out before you drop your drawers!

Jack B. Badd

smoggy11 wrote: »

Also, it is not wrong to level some blame at the 'victims'. Even that word is ridiculous. People who get cheated on aren't victims, they are people who were cheated on!

Surely if the blame lies anywhere (and I don't like the word "blame" in this context but will go with it), it lies with the relationship as a whole. I've never been cheated on to my knowledge or had any inclination to cheat on my current or previous partners, however I would imagine that one of the major reasons for cheating is a breakdown or lack of communication in the relationship. This probably ties into the complacency issue. Couples that communicate properly would probably be able to discuss the desire to pursue sexual relationships outside their relationship and therefore consider having a more open relationship (whether it happens or not). However, as I said, I have little experience of this (lucky me) so this is pretty much all speculation on my part.

Xiney

I think with cheating, it's a case by case basis.

Sometimes, it's the fault of the relationship not giving all parties what they need/want

Sometimes, it's the fact that the person who goes on to cheat is just a dog

Wibbs

As above. No one size fits all.