cultural attitudes to guys and dating

Eve_Dublin · 20-07-2010 9:46am

ciagr297 wrote: »

pretty much.....i smile, try to look like i genuinely believe the compliment (which sometimes i actually do) and drop defenses
after a while, you start enjoying them

I for one LOVE compliments from guys I like but I do get embarrassed. I actually go red. I´m hoping it´s endearing instead of looking weird.

ciagr297 · 20-07-2010 9:59am

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

I´ve read in a few places that women are having their feminist revolution but the men seem oblivious to it...get your head round THAT one! Spanish women are strong women...I certainly wouldn´t mess with them but you seem to still notice some men trying to undermine them...there´s still an undercurrent of plain, old sexism in this country.

its strange but i have never ever gotten the same submissive sort of vibes around guys off Spanish girls as with Latinas.
In fact, any of my male friends who've gone out with Spanish girls have always found it more "challenging" (in good and bad ways) than they expected:)...

Eve_Dublin · 20-07-2010 10:09am

ciagr297 wrote: »

its strange but i have never ever gotten the same submissive sort of vibes around guys off Spanish girls as with Latinas.
In fact, any of my male friends who've gone out with Spanish girls have always found it more "challenging" (in good and bad ways) than they expected:)...

Do you mean you´ve found Spanish girls less submissive than Latinas? Absolutely!

No, Spanish women are strong women. They´re doing their best on that front and I for one salute them. The guys aren´t making it easy for them though. Must be tough living in a culture with so many men who think your there for sex and to make the dinner and nothing else. Hopefully those guys are a dying breed (they tend to be older). Hopefully things will change further down the line...I guess things are delayed because the dictatorship only ended in the 70s. Northern European countries have been at this malarky since the turn of the century. I hope I´m here to see it change.

Emme · 20-07-2010 10:17am

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Do you mean you´ve found Spanish girls less submissive than Latinas? Absolutely!

No, Spanish women are strong women. They´re doing their best on that front and I for one salute them. The guys aren´t making it easy for them though. Must be tough living in a culture with so many men who think your there for sex and to make the dinner and nothing else. Hopefully those guys are a dying breed (they tend to be older). Hopefully things will change further down the line...I guess things are delayed because the dictatorship only ended in the 70s. Northern European countries have been at this malarky since the turn of the century. I hope I´m here to see it change.

I don't know. It should change, but if they get an influx of women from European countries which are far less progressive than Spain the men will jettison Spanish women in favour of the submissive newcomers. It has happened in other European countries and this has set back the lot of women in those countries.

Eve_Dublin · 20-07-2010 10:21am

Emme wrote: »

I don't know. It should change, but if they get an influx of women from European countries which are far less progressive than Spain the men will jettison Spanish women in favour of the submissive newcomers. It has happened in other European countries and this has set back the lot of women in those countries.

We need to ship in boats of Irish women "Spanish Armada" style to bust some balls and put them in their place

Emme · 20-07-2010 11:39am

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

We need to ship in boats of Irish women "Spanish Armada" style to bust some balls and put them in their place

If Spanish women haven't done this already we haven't much hope but maybe Spanish men (like Irish men) are fed up getting nagged at by their mothers, sisters, wives and girlfriends. Maybe we should organise a cultural exchange with Spanish women - they come over here to sort out Irish men and we'll go over there and put manners on their men!:D

20-07-2010 10:02pm

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

The labour laws here are just incredible. Absolutely shocking. I probably have one of the most cushty numbers going in this country as an English teacher....and by any other European Union country´s standards I´m being exploited (no holiday pay, not even for bank holidays of which there are many, getting **** pay as it is, expected to pay for my own photocopying as photocopiers and printers always broken and I´m never reimbursed etc).

That's just TEFL. It's exactly the same everywhere else. There's hardly ever any holiday pay and you often have to pay for photocopying and your own materials. I had the same thing in Ireland. School closed for Christmas for 2 weeks and we just lost the 2 weeks pay. I think wages and conditions are pretty bad in Spain, but few other countries beat Ireland in terms of how employees are treated.

To be honest, the only thing I was surprised to find was how women are still treated as second class citizens....it´s not Iran or even Italy but it´s still not great, worse than Ireland anyway. I didn´t expect that. I´ve read in a few places that women are having their feminist revolution but the men seem oblivious to it...get your head round THAT one! Spanish women are strong women...I certainly wouldn´t mess with them but you seem to still notice some men trying to undermine them...there´s still an undercurrent of plain, old sexism in this country. I see that with men leering at them and I even see the dynamics in my English classes...they can actually be very shy to speak up and sometimes their opinions are belittled or some sexist comment is made, particularly by the older students...it´s not a real issue but it´s definitely there....never came across that in Ireland. The big bosses are ALL male. People work crazy hours over here and pay for overtime is a foreign concept...literally, so women actually can´t have kids.

Honestly, I find a lot of Irish men just as bad. I'm constantly being talked down to and ignored. I find I have to work really hard to prove I'm not an idiot - one guy I met recently in Dublin started explaining what a profit margin was, as if I'd never heard that word before. :rolleyes: and at more than one job, all the male employees used to openly gawk at me every time I walked past. I get checked out by men in the street when I'm with my boyfriend. If this doesn't happen to you, I can only assume it's because I'm foreign looking. I never used to get this in Spain, and I look Spanish. Could be significant?

I´ve yet to meet an Irish woman abroad who HASN´T done well for herself abroad and actually, I´ve met more of us who have come here alone to give it a go considering the size of the country. Same goes for travelling on our own...I met loads of Irish women in South America travelling alone (I think we were all getting over broken hearts ) I´d say Irish women would be pretty ballsy in that respect. Perhaps it´s a Northern European thing....I met zero Italians, Greeks, Spanish etc and the ones I did meet were travelling in couples.

Irish women are generally strong and independent, I think it is a Northern European thing. Like you said, it would be unusual for a Spanish or Italian to travel alone - their friends would say it was weird and they'd just feel uncomfortable. I worked with Spanish women in Ireland who wouldn't even eat lunch on their own. I think Irish women generally don't put up with any BS and can be quite 'hard' (in a good way usually), perhaps that's why Irish men tend to be sexist towards foreign girls (see above) who they perceive as being weak and submissive. In fact, I'm nearly sure that's what it is. I've had dozens of Irish people say it to me.

the fake mccoy · 21-07-2010 8:33am

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

We need to ship in boats of Irish women "Spanish Armada" style to bust some balls and put them in their place

Yeah that's just what they need. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Eve_Dublin · 21-07-2010 8:36am

[quote=[Deleted User];67027915]That's just TEFL. It's exactly the same everywhere else. There's hardly ever any holiday pay and you often have to pay for photocopying and your own materials. I had the same thing in Ireland. School closed for Christmas for 2 weeks and we just lost the 2 weeks pay. I think wages and conditions are pretty bad in Spain, but few other countries beat Ireland in terms of how employees are treated.

Yep I´ve heard it´s awful everywhere but my point being I´ve been told even TEFL is a cushty number compared to most jobs here in Spain. That says it all.

Honestly, I find a lot of Irish men just as bad. I'm constantly being talked down to and ignored. I find I have to work really hard to prove I'm not an idiot - one guy I met recently in Dublin started explaining what a profit margin was, as if I'd never heard that word before. :rolleyes: and at more than one job, all the male employees used to openly gawk at me every time I walked past. I get checked out by men in the street when I'm with my boyfriend. If this doesn't happen to you, I can only assume it's because I'm foreign looking. I never used to get this in Spain, and I look Spanish. Could be significant?

I´m your typical blonde haired, blue eyed Northern European and yeah, I´d draw attention here because of that but no, I have to disagree with you here...Spanish men check out Spanish women. I see it all the time. It´s fine but it´s the way they do it...they leer. They´d stop on the street and stare, they´d make comments, they cat call, they do it in such a sleazy, unrespectful way...in fairness Madrid is not as bad as the South but it´s a lot worse than home. Perhaps your just a very striking, beautiful woman and you get a lot of attention in Ireland, maybe more than most but generally, Irish men don´t leer...this is different to just checking out a girl.

I

rish women are generally strong and independent, I think it is a Northern European thing. Like you said, it would be unusual for a Spanish or Italian to travel alone - their friends would say it was weird and they'd just feel uncomfortable. I worked with Spanish women in Ireland who wouldn't even eat lunch on their own. I think Irish women generally don't put up with any BS and can be quite 'hard' (in a good way usually), perhaps that's why Irish men tend to be sexist towards foreign girls (see above) who they perceive as being weak and submissive. In fact, I'm nearly sure that's what it is. I've had dozens of Irish people say it to me.

The Spanish differ from other nationalities because they do things in packs. The women in my class couldn´t believe I travelled alone for a year and moved here alone last year (I think they thought I was kind of odd in that respect, they certainly weren´t in any kind of awe)...they ALL said they´d never do that and a few of them said they hated spending time alone whereas I spend a lot of time on my own and relish it. I dated a few Spanish men when I got here first and they all commented on how a Spanish woman would never do what I did that but as Wibbs said, they don´t have the culture of travelling here at all anyway. I´ve also heard comments from men that Spanish women tend to give up the rest of their social life to spend all their time with their boyfriends. I don´t know what´s true and what´s a generalisation but these are the comments I´ve heard.

It´s true, were called harsh etc. when I think a lot of time were just not going to take any sheite. Irish men can give a lot of sheeite and sometimes all they want is a mammy replacement. Were branded as being cold and tough when I think a lot of the time (not all the time) it´s just a case of us not depending on men. Men are seen as partners and not as someone who´s going to come and save us. Maybe we´ve just achieved equality and respect and a lot of Irish men can´t get their heads round that because they´re so passive, so they look further afield to women who haven´t got to that stage yet. It´s another way of looking at it anyway.

Kinley Gray Barricade your English aren´t you? And you´re giving an outsiders perspective? So your comments can´t be labelled as some bitter Irish women having a go at Irish men. Interesting to read them.

Eve_Dublin · 21-07-2010 8:37am

the fake mccoy wrote: »

Yeah that's just what they need. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Do you have a sense of humour? Have you heard of something called "a joke"? Oh deary me...

the fake mccoy · 21-07-2010 8:43am

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Do you have a sense of humour? Have you heard of something called "a joke"? Oh deary me...

To be honest I agree, send them all over, it would be a mutually beneficial arrangement.

:D:D:D

Eve_Dublin · 21-07-2010 8:51am

the fake mccoy wrote: »

To be honest I agree, send them all over, it would be a mutually beneficial arrangement. :D:D:D

Well I´m already here doing my bit and going out with a Latin man who knows how to treat a woman. No plans to return home to lovely Irish gentlemen like yourself anytime soon. I presume if you hate us so much that you´ve done the same.

Your in the Ladies Lounge...a bit of respect, please. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

the fake mccoy · 21-07-2010 9:18am

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Well I´m already here doing my bit and going out with a Latin man who knows how to treat a woman. No plans to return home to lovely Irish gentlemen like yourself anytime soon. I presume if you hate us so much that you´ve done the same.

Your in the Ladies Lounge...a bit of respect, please. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sense of humour???!!!

Eve_Dublin · 21-07-2010 9:24am

the fake mccoy wrote: »

Sense of humour???!!!

:rolleyes:

Silverfish · 21-07-2010 9:30am

the fake mccoy wrote: »

Sense of humour???!!!

Hi,

Please read the charter of this forum please.

Thank you.

21-07-2010 10:31am

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Yep I´ve heard it´s awful everywhere but my point being I´ve been told even TEFL is a cushty number compared to most jobs here in Spain. That says it all.

It's not unusual for teachers to make more than the locals, as you're sort of a 'specialist' over there, but yeah, the salaries in Spain take some getting used to. People think Spain is amazing because everything is so cheap, but they don't consider what the locals earn in a month.

I´m your typical blonde haired, blue eyed Northern European and yeah, I´d draw attention here because of that but no, I have to disagree with you here...Spanish men check out Spanish women. I see it all the time. It´s fine but it´s the way they do it...they leer. They´d stop on the street and stare, they´d make comments, they cat call, they do it in such a sleazy, unrespectful way...in fairness Madrid is not as bad as the South but it´s a lot worse than home. Perhaps your just a very striking, beautiful woman and you get a lot of attention in Ireland, maybe more than most but generally, Irish men don´t leer...this is different to just checking out a girl.

I didn't notice it being as bad as that. Italy I would say is much worse for that. But yeah, I'd say a lot of Irish men leer as well. I just don't think they do it to Irish women because they'd get a slap, but I get the full on leering a fair bit, as well as the sleazy chat up lines. What I noticed is that their demeanor often totally changes when they realise I'm not foreign (I'll get on to that later!), they look embarrassed and basically just stop talking. A lot of people seem to put on the Oirish Charm act as well, which must work on foreign girls, but I see right through it. So I assume they see Mediterranean girls as being submissive or easily charmed and act accordingly.

The Spanish differ from other nationalities because they do things in packs. The women in my class couldn´t believe I travelled alone for a year and moved here alone last year (I think they thought I was kind of odd in that respect, they certainly weren´t in any kind of awe)...they ALL said they´d never do that and a few of them said they hated spending time alone whereas I spend a lot of time on my own and relish it. I dated a few Spanish men when I got here first and they all commented on how a Spanish woman would never do what I did that but as Wibbs said, they don´t have the culture of travelling here at all anyway. I´ve also heard comments from men that Spanish women tend to give up the rest of their social life to spend all their time with their boyfriends. I don´t know what´s true and what´s a generalisation but these are the comments I´ve heard.

True, as far as I can see. I knew a girl who wanted to come to Ireland, but insisted that her boyfriend came with her because there was no way she'd do it alone. I got critical comments from Spanish women for wanting to be alone - my au pair mother practically called me a freak because she couldn't understand why I'd prefer to sit in with a book or watching TV some nights instead of hanging out with people my age. I think Spanish girls seem much more clingy and dependent on men than Irish girls do - I'm aware that's a huge generalisation but I think it's accurate. My Irish ex had dated a few Spanish girls and he used to get annoyed with me because I didn't hang on his every word and run around picking up after him. He didn't understand why I wouldn't drop everything for him like they did.

It´s true, were called harsh etc. when I think a lot of time were just not going to take any sheite. Irish men can give a lot of sheeite and sometimes all they want is a mammy replacement. Were branded as being cold and tough when I think a lot of the time (not all the time) it´s just a case of us not depending on men. Men are seen as partners and not as someone who´s going to come and save us. Maybe we´ve just achieved equality and respect and a lot of Irish men can´t get their heads round that because they´re so passive, so they look further afield to women who haven´t got to that stage yet. It´s another way of looking at it anyway.

I totally agree. Now, obviously not all Irish men are like that, but they're generally the ones who don't give out about Irish women. Now, a significant amount of Irish women are just cold bitches for no reason, IMO, to other women as well as men, but I think a lot are unfairly branded as harsh or cold when they're really just strong and don't take any messing. I have friends like this who are still single after years because men seem to be put off by their independence. There are lots of great, non-sexist Irish guys but it took me some time to learn to weed out the replacement-mammy-searchers, the madonna-whore-complex havers and the general a-holes.

Kinley Gray Barricade your English aren´t you? And you´re giving an outsiders perspective? So your comments can´t be labelled as some bitter Irish women having a go at Irish men. Interesting to read them.

It's complicated, I was born in England but I'm half Irish so I have an Irish name, moved to Ireland when I was 11 so have an Irish accent but look neither English nor Irish because I have Spanish and Italian blood.

But yeah, I suppose I am an outsider because I didn't totally grow up in Ireland, it was all new to me before I moved over. While I often say I'm Irish and have the passport, I think I can see things from the perspective of an outsider and most of my thinking/behaviour is still English. So no, I'm not some bitter Irish woman, hehe, this is a non-biased opinion.

Wibbs · 21-07-2010 11:50am

Kinley Gray Barricade wrote:

I think Spanish girls seem much more clingy and dependent on men than Irish girls do - I'm aware that's a huge generalisation but I think it's accurate. My Irish ex had dated a few Spanish girls and he used to get annoyed with me because I didn't hang on his every word and run around picking up after him. He didn't understand why I wouldn't drop everything for him like they did.

I'd agree with that as a general rule alright. They can be quite attentive, but that can easily translate into very clingy and dependent. I would also agree they need more social contact too. Ditto for most of the latins. Actually the Irish are more out of step that way. We need less of that as a general thing. Guys will say that to get with a woman you have to pass muster wth her friends, I would say that goes double with latin women. I've known quite a number who stayed with a guy just because the mates approved.

That said I also know some very strong spanish women. Even though they were more dependent I found them less focused on the obvious aspects and milestones of a relationship compared to Irish women. Less of the "we're together a year and Im looking in jewelers windows" kinda thing.

Now, a significant amount of Irish women are just cold bitches for no reason, IMO, to other women as well as men,

True but you get wagons everywhere. I've done the rounds of the EU and I can assure you of that

I would defo agree as far as harshness and competitive attitudes to other women though.

but I think a lot are unfairly branded as harsh or cold when they're really just strong and don't take any messing.

That's true too, but I have also found more combative attitudes here than elsewhere. Plus Ive noticed it has become more prevalent over the last 15 years. I think also that it is a manner rather than an actual harshness. They're not harsh, they just appear that way. Like I said though it can be very hard work trying to fit in with that in those cases.

I have friends like this who are still single after years because men seem to be put off by their independence.

It happens alright. I dunno I couldnt go out with a simpering type. Tried it. Didnt like it. That said if Im in love I like to think that they do depend on me, the way I would depend on them. Otherwise what's the point. I've been chatting to women more than once where they constantly went on about their independence and you kinda think "bully for you, but where would I fit into all this?"

BumbleB · 21-07-2010 12:16pm

[quote=[Deleted User];67034253]

It's complicated, I was born in England but I'm half Irish so I have an Irish name, moved to Ireland when I was 11 so have an Irish accent but look neither English nor Irish because I have Spanish and Italian blood.

But yeah, I suppose I am an outsider because I didn't totally grow up in Ireland, it was all new to me before I moved over. While I often say I'm Irish and have the passport, I think I can see things from the perspective of an outsider and most of my thinking/behaviour is still English. So no, I'm not some bitter Irish woman, hehe, this is a non-biased opinion.[/QUOTE]

Me too, born in the USA ,swedish and Irish blood . Irish passport.Speak with Irish accent ,still in American way of thinking and behaving according to my ex gf who is American.

Dont look Irish at all, viking looks,in fact Polish people often talk to me in Polish. I also feel like an outsider and I always view everything from a foreign P.O.V .But netherless I love Ireland and Irish people .

Eve_Dublin · 21-07-2010 12:30pm

I´ve just figured out how to quote within a post!! Woohoo!!

I'd agree with that as a general rule alright. They can be quite attentive, but that can easily translate into very clingy and dependent. I would also agree they need more social contact too. Ditto for most of the latins. Actually the Irish are more out of step that way. We need less of that as a general thing. Guys will say that to get with a woman you have to pass muster wth her friends, I would say that goes double with latin women. I've known quite a number who stayed with a guy just because the mates approved.

I see women hanging off their men every corner I turn here but my Canadian friend here once commented on how she pities Spanish women because the men wouldn´t pay them any heed because of their arrogance and when she said it I noticed it more. Spanish women hanging on their every word and Spanish men practically ignoring them. My first housemate here was a Spanish guy in his early 30s. His mother would ring every night to see if he changed his socks that day (he told me this) and his girlfriend called about 5 times every evening and she´d stay on the phone for literally most of the evening. My housemate talked to her like he was a bratty teenager talking to his mother when I think all this chica wanted was some attention....5 times every evening was a bit excessive though

Perhaps it works for Spanish women that a lot of Irish guys are dying to be with a woman who´s open to that attention and visa versa. Spanish women and Irish guys seem to work. Personally I could never carry on that way. It´s not the way I was brought up or the way I want to be. I´m easing up a bit though.

That said I also know some very strong spanish women. Even though they were more dependent I found them less focused on the obvious aspects and milestones of a relationship compared to Irish women. Less of the "we're together a year and Im looking in jewelers windows" kinda thing.

I think Spanish women are tough as nails. I don´t mean that in a bad way. I find it a little intimidating though...they can be quite unapproachable initially but when you get past that barrier, they´re lovely.

And really Wibbs? You think Irish women are more into marriage? That definitely hasn´t been my experience.

True but you get wagons everywhere. I've done the rounds of the EU and I can assure you of that I would defo agree as far as harshness and competitive attitudes to other women though. That's true too, but I have also found more combative attitudes here than elsewhere. Plus Ive noticed it has become more prevalent over the last 15 years. I think also that it is a manner rather than an actual harshness. They're not harsh, they just appear that way. Like I said though it can be very hard work trying to fit in with that in those cases.

Irish women can be very mean to each other but then that´s a certain type. I´m definitely not that way as I generally get on well with other girls. I don´t get threatened. We´re probably a little too quick to judge other women or pass remarks or feel threatened that other women are muscling in on our territory. I hate it. Again that stems from an insecurity on our part. Takes a while to get past that and form some sort of friendship and I think we might be a little bit cliquey.

It happens alright. I dunno I couldnt go out with a simpering type. Tried it. Didnt like it. That said if Im in love I like to think that they do depend on me, the way I would depend on them. Otherwise what's the point. I've been chatting to women more than once where they constantly went on about their independence and you kinda think "bully for you, but where would I fit into all this?"

Fair enough. That´s definitely an "issue" (not an actual problem) with this new Latin fella (I really have to shut up about him...blah blah Latin man...blah blah Argie blah blah haha

). It´s just the way I was brought up. My mother always told me to have my own money and to never depend on a man. I´m learning to soften the edges a bit though.

metrovelvet · 21-07-2010 2:05pm

Spanish and latin americans can't be alone. It's pathological. Pointless comparing independences.

Eve_Dublin · 21-07-2010 2:58pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

Spanish and latin americans can't be alone. It's pathological. Pointless comparing independences.

I´m comparing Irish to Spanish only ´cos I live here.

P.S: Sorry, I misread your post so ignore the above. I do think Spanish women are a lot less submissive though.

Wibbs · 21-07-2010 3:46pm

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

his girlfriend called about 5 times every evening and she´d stay on the phone for literally most of the evening.

Sounds familiar actually. Now given I like more contact than most men if I noticed this... Not just in one case either.

My housemate talked to her like he was a bratty teenager talking to his mother when I think all this chica wanted was some attention...

Yep, the thing is if you dont do that and actually engage more as an equal than they're used to, then they don't like it. well not that they don't like it, but there is an element of being a little dictatorial going a long way. You know that old chestnut about treat em mean, keep em keen? Can go double in that kinda culture. Now no woman likes a yes man, not in the long term, so there is something in the notion of keeping some tiny bit of distance, more to the point barriers. Well being an equal, but in the latin cultures you will do better as a man if you're more dismissive than many Irish guys. As a very general thing of course.

but 5 times every evening was a bit excessive though

Try ringing every day after they split up with you and are off bonking someone else. That wasn't just one example either.

Perhaps it works for Spanish women that a lot of Irish guys are dying to be with a woman who´s open to that attention and visa versa. Spanish women and Irish guys seem to work.

I agree. Goes for most of the "Latin" countries too I would say. Less so with France.

Personally I could never carry on that way. It´s not the way I was brought up or the way I want to be. I´m easing up a bit though.

Maybe that's why I personally tended towards non Irish women? That could be it alright. I like engaging that way(so long as its returned). For some reading this may shock

but I would be more the romantic type than most men I know. I will go that extra mile in that sense and in the sense of helping them. I like a woman who is open to that. I like to feel I'm not fighting against that. Like I say it has to be returned though and she does the same for me when I need it.

Funny you mentioned earlier about having women mates and maybe we have more as a culture. Well I have always had very close women mates. All Irish(but one and shes fromthe UK) and they're all independent, sexy intelligent women and I love em to bits, but I couldnt go out with any of them. I can see why others would, but we just wouldnt gel as romantic partners if that ever came up. It woud be like mates with our wobbly bits in play. Which is how a lot of my (Irish)mates relationships are. I need more passion. I can't imagine having that same vibe with an Italian woman(tm) if you know what I mean?

And really Wibbs? You think Irish women are more into marriage? That definitely hasn´t been my experience.

Yea. I dunno. Hard to describe. Both would be the same as an underlying thing. I mean the heavy duty fuss over the particulars. Things like the size of the engagement ring and all that stuff. It so depends on the background though. The more traditonal religious types would be very similar to here. Those countries have more of the long term socialist type thinking than we do though. We're still rebounding from the extreme of the rule of the cassock here I think.

Again that stems from an insecurity on our part. Takes a while to get past that and form some sort of friendship and I think we might be a little bit cliquey.

Plus one on both. Especially the first. Though that goes for many Irish men when it comes to women too. Funny though I've found we're by far the least cliquey humans on earth outside of Ireland and also the most forward. Sexually forward too. I know a guy who when living in Ireland could have fallen into a barrel of boobs and come out sucking his thumb. He moves to france and he's giving casanova a run for his money and (he has a face like a slapped arse)

I've known Irish women like that too. It seems the insecurity is much worse when we're around our own? Given that countries with a higher population and a much bigger mix of genes are going to have more good looking people, you would think the exact opposite would happen?

Fair enough. That´s definitely an "issue" (not an actual problem) with this new Latin fella (I really have to shut up about him...blah blah Latin man...blah blah Argie blah blah haha ).

Feck the begrudgers, you're in love

Scarinae · 21-07-2010 6:30pm

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

You think Irish women are more into marriage? That definitely hasn´t been my experience.

I have to say, this hasn't been my experience either... I live with an Italian and a Portuguese girl and they have much more 'traditional' views towards marriage than I have come across with any of my Irish/English friends. My brother (aged 27) and his girlfriend have been together over three years, and are living together - my Portuguese flatmate has asked me more than once when he is planning to propose to his girlfriend! Like I have any fecking idea, for all I know they've never even discussed it. Both of the flatmates think it's strange that my brother's girlfriend is happy to live with him when they're not even engaged yet - they say they'd like to be married before they live with someone, or at least engaged if that's not possible. They certainly wouldn't live with a man if he hadn't committed in some way.

BumbleB · 21-07-2010 6:44pm

Emme wrote: »

Not all Irish women are like that. If you go out on the town to superpubs/clubs at the weekend you'll meet lots of the above, but there are plenty more "normal" Irish women to be found elsewhere.

I know that ,I've met a lot of nice people in so called pretentious places like krystle .

Emme wrote: »

He wasn't looking in the right places. He should have tried some of the Meetup groups. Lots of nice down to earth Irish girls there.

Meetup groups whats that ?. I can't really say ,because I dont really know where he went out ,he just told me this story.I'm sure if he went out on the town with me he would have met a nice Irish woman.

Emme wrote: »

I agree and I also know girls who won't talk to guys if they deem them to be too tall - there's no pleasing them :eek: ! Unfortunately there are also guys who also treat girls like commodities to be seduced and discarded at the end of the night. They tend to hang out in the same places as those women.

So true ,I'm glad I'm not one of them ,well I've only had 2 ons ever with girls who were known to me.

Emme wrote: »

Don't let the people you described sour you. There are lots of nice people in Ireland, male and female, but it's harder to find them.

Agreed, They don't .I think you pick me up wrong . I don't mind Irish women but I haven't gone out with many , not because I wouldn't want to but by default I've always went around in foreign circles. I've talked to loads and not one has ever been rude to me some of them are lovely.The nicest irish girls I have ever met is in my hometown in kildare they're not afraid to approach guys .are extremely friendly even though I wouldn't even know them. Weird to say but I'm more in touch with foreigners than irish ,the girl I like now is french.

I have a friend who is chinese and grew up in Ireland I've been out with his chinese friends and they all are really conservative and quiet some people would even call it "unfriendly" but there is one girl there and she is pure nuts ,shes totally "Irish" very funny,witty girl.

metrovelvet · 21-07-2010 7:07pm

BumbleB wrote: »

I know that ,I've met a lot of nice people in so called pretentious places like krystle .

I can't really say because I dont really know where he went out ,he just told me this story.

So true ,I'm glad I'm not one of them ,well I've only had 2 ons ever

They don't .I think you pick me up wrong . I don't mind Irish women but I haven't gone out with many , not because I wouldn't want to but by default I've always went around in foreign circles. I've talked to loads and not one has ever been rude to me. Weird to say but I'm more in touch with foreigners than irish ,the girl I like now is french.

I have a friend who is chinese and grew up in Ireland I've been out with his chinese friends and they all are really conservative and quiet some people would even call it "unfriendly" but there is one girl there and she is pure nuts ,shes totally "Irish" very funny,witty girl.

That is because as a foreigner, it is easier to befriend other foreigners, even outside of your own nationality than it is the locals, and that doubles for outside of Dublin.

BumbleB · 21-07-2010 7:52pm

Fishie wrote: »

- my Portuguese flatmate has asked me more than once when he is planning to propose to his girlfriend! Like I have any fecking idea, for all I know they've never even discussed it. Both of the flatmates think it's strange that my brother's girlfriend is happy to live with him when they're not even engaged yet - they say they'd like to be married before they live with someone, or at least engaged if that's not possible. They certainly wouldn't live with a man if he hadn't committed in some way.

100% true used to live with ukranian people ,one was a married couple and a single girl.

Well I was single at the time and they were always asking me when was I going to cop on and settle down ( I was only 23).I think this may be the mindset of more family oriented races like the spanish ,italians etc.You see Irish aren't really family oriented compared to other races IMO.

metrovelvet wrote: »

That is because as a foreigner, it is easier to befriend other foreigners, even outside of your own nationality than it is the locals, and that doubles for outside of Dublin.

Well I speak and act like an Irish person.Same sense of humour etc.People are people ,befriending people is the same if theyre from donnybrook or timbuktu.

I don't consider myself a foreigner I'm told I'm not Irish cause I wasn't born here.I have an Irish passport.I have Irish friends I like Irish people theyre not as uptight as my usa friends less serious and much more fun.

I'm indistuinguishable from an Irish person really, some people cop on to my messed up accent.Polish people cop on straight away that I'm not from here. American girls pick up on it right from the start.Any american girls I have ever met i've had real chemistry ,one even moved up the road from me !.Secretly I'd love to settle with one.

Eve_Dublin · 21-07-2010 8:17pm

metrovelvet wrote: »

That is because as a foreigner, it is easier to befriend other foreigners, even outside of your own nationality than it is the locals, and that doubles for outside of Dublin.

Agreed. In every city I´ve lived in, ex pats stick together. Harder to make local friends.

DistantShore · 22-07-2010 12:58pm

I am a Brazilian girl, born and bred, and I thought I'd address a couple of interesting issues raised here, giving you the perspective of someone from Latin America who has been living in Ireland for quite some time.

BumbleB:
"I'm curious to know where she's from as a Portugese friend of mine tells me that brazilian women are mad for irish boyfriends ,they are not interested in him even though he speaks their language ."

I do know a couple of Brazilian girls who are either dating or married to Irish men. However, I wouldn't say that would apply to most Brazilian girls I know - the ones that are not single are dating/married to Scandinavians, Italians, Britishmen and a couple of other nationalities.

ciagr297:
"now that i think about it, i can see differences in the way spanish women and latin american women deal with men. its funny, i never paid much attention before. i had assumed differences were individual but now i'm thinking otherwise"

I think this is really a matter of cultural differences in some cases. Perhaps Latin-American people tend to be a bit more open and friendly than a few other nationalities (I don't intend to imply here that Irish people are not friendly - it's just a different way of expressing friendliness, perhaps). This would apply to both men and women.

seenitall:
"To the South American woman "Man is King" (this is a quote from one), and I think that overall women over there don't have the same amount of equality with men, as women over here do."

This would be a bit of a dangerous generalisation. Maybe it is still true in some circles and in some specific situations (for instance, if someone has a very strict religious background), but based on my own personal experience, I would say that this would have been the case a couple of generations ago, not now. Especially in bigger cities (I am from Rio de Janeiro, by the way), Brazilian women tend to be very independent and emancipated. I don't know to what extent the Latin-American girls that some of you have met here in Ireland and elsewhere would be representative of our reality over there. I can only say that some of the points mentioned in this thread would not necessarily apply to me or to the girls I grew up with, went to school with, went to college with and worked with back in Brazil.

BumbleB · 22-07-2010 1:58pm

DistantShore wrote: »

I am a Brazilian girl, born and bred, and I thought I'd address a couple of interesting issues raised here, giving you the perspective of someone from Latin America who has been living in Ireland for quite some time.

BumbleB:
"I'm curious to know where she's from as a Portugese friend of mine tells me that brazilian women are mad for irish boyfriends ,they are not interested in him even though he speaks their language ."

I do know a couple of Brazilian girls who are either dating or married to Irish men. However, I wouldn't say that would apply to most Brazilian girls I know - the ones that are not single are dating/married to Scandinavians, Italians, Britishmen and a couple of other nationalities.

.

I am just recounting what my buddy said because he was looking for a woman to date .Likewise with the others we can only express what has been true to our own experience. Thanks for the input it was nice to hear , I'm not trying to be condesending but you are extremely articulate.

LegacyUser · 23-08-2010 10:32pm

Eve Dublin,

I read your post as well as the rest of the posts in this thread and I was thinking that is sooo latin to try to pay for all and dont even think about sharing on equal terms the bills, dinners, etc. I think that latin men still think, some of them of course

, that being a man is all about being a provider, which is true from a genetic illogic unconscient perspective, that is you are not a man if you cant provide to your woman enough shelter, food, etc.

Being a gentleman should not be a blind in a man´s eye to treat his woman equally and fairly and the days where the man was the King, understanding the king as the dominant ruler and macho, are gone as women gained not only trust in her abilities as woman but also sex was a real ice breaker given that most men are completely clueless as to how give good sex to their women; so we are equal and paying for drinks or a pint of milk or beer should not be the end of manhood or macho posture for any man, after all, his woman knows how good he is as man and macho and he should not care a damn if others see him as unworthy or less macho, his woman knows him enough.
About peruvian, brazilian women and any other latino women: european guys are mad and crazy about latino women because they represent to their senses, the fire and the spontaneous sex or love or anything that they dont feel or think or sense they have at their homes; sadly, most guys are clueless as how to make their women, girlfriends, wifes vibrate and glow and shine, so they think latin women are what they need and they are wrong if they think they can seduce and make latin women feel so alive; I know some women want nothing more than to marry and caught an US man or european man but that is if we consider the differences of a long standing equal europe, when it comes to welfare, social rights, etc although Europe is now being judged with the same tools Latin america and compared to empoverished, poor unequal, unfair, still macho ruling with the help of catholic roman church.
I really enjoyed this topic and I am from Argentina, Buenos Aires and I am as european as much as I am latinoamericano.

I am open to suggestions, discussions, etc.

Kind regards

CJ

Eve_Dublin wrote: »

Interesting topic. My boyfriend is Argentinian and sometimes we get ourselves into comical scenarios where were fighting over paying for even a litre of milk. I´ve always paid for half of everything with previous boyfriends (they´ve been Irish and British)...you get it this time and I´ll get it the next time and it´s always worked. I´ve always felt I´ve been on an equal footing with that person as a result.

I´ve recently come to realise that it´s important for the Argie to pay for stuff. We live in Spain and the shop across from his apartment is run by a couple of Equadorian guys. We were getting a few bits and bobs to go hiking and he´d paid for the stuff the week before so it was my turn...but once again he insisted. I joked in English (so the Equadorians wouldn´t understand) was this an example of the infamous Latin machisimo...he doesn´t want to be seen in front of the latin guys depending on a woman to pay for stuff. We laughed but I think that´s exactly what happened. He´s not your typical Macho Latin guy at all but I guess he´d be traditional in that sense...at least until he has me tied to the kitchen sink further down the road .

He´ll make me breakfast and dinner even when I bring over stuff to his flat and insist. In his opinion it´s his place to spoil a lady. I´m not used to it at all and goes against everything I was brought up believing was fair. It is nice though, even if it´s a little uncomfortable. I don´t want to be seen as the kind of girl who can do nothing for herself or as lazy or as some princess or loose the balance of equality and not be taken seriously so I´ll keep on offering to pay even if he won´t let me or do him favours without him noticing. Psychologically I know were on an equal footing then. Problems arise when you start taking that kind of treatment for granted.

I saw how Latin American women behave around European guys when I travelled there for 11 months and I could never be that kind of woman. Those guys became the be all and end all for those girls. Thing is, I met a Peruvian girl travelling who told me lots of Peruvian girls try to hook up with gringo guys to get out of their countries....they´ve even got a name for that type of girls (can´t think of it...something to do with "bridge"...I´ll get back to you on that).

Yep and in my experience Brazilian women do love Irish guys. I met some guys from Cork my first week travelling...these guys wouldn´t have been all that popular back home (they said it themselves) but they were a hit with a bunch of gorgeous Brazilian women I shared dorms with. I spoke to those girls and they thought the men were "lovely". I talked to the Irish guys later and one of them said to me, "At home I´d get chased away with with a wooden stick by most women and now I have all these women all over me"...bless him. The women gave these guys so much attention, they were all over them in every way and to be honest, if an Irish girl did the same to a guy back home in a public setting, she´d be branded a slapper. These guys attitude towards these girls was totally different to anything I´ve seen back home. We wouldn´t get away with it.

Fact of the matter is many Irish men have a terrible opinion of us and when I read the comments posted daily on AH, I feel disappointed. As much as I like Irish guys generally, I don´t see myself dating one in the future. As much as I love being treated as an equal by Irish men, it´s nice to be treated as a lady sometimes instead of just one of the lads.

cultural attitudes to guys and dating

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