Worst road accident in the history of the state claims 8 in Donegal

greeno

discovery98 wrote: »

Sounds like this story from 2008 refers to the driver then:

http://www.derryjournal.com/inishowen/Lorry-driver-caught-doing-39doughnuts39.4237379.jp?articlepage=1

Get your facts striaght before you go throwing around accusations. The driver was Sean Kelly not Liam Kelly.

Liam was not the driver of the car in question unless Boards.ie wants a legal case I suggest they moderate these posts more stringintly.

Anan1

mickydoomsux wrote: »

.......And that would have zero effect on someone like that. You can't cure stupid, no matter how hard you try.

You don't know the driver, and you don't know what happened. People can and do change their behaviour all the time, it's called growing up.

brandon_flowers

Everyone except the Belfast Telegraph are saying Sean Kelly, possibly a younger brother if he is a lorry driver and the family have a haulage company. Only guessing. Dont know how common the Kelly name is up there.

Report here shows the red Corolla also, the damage to it would suggest it was as close to head on as possible.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Irelands-Worst-Road-Accident-Funerals-Planned-For-Eight-Men-Killed-In-Buncrana-Co-Donegal/Article/201007215664206?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15664206_Irelands_Worst_Road_Accident%3A_Funerals_Planned_For_Eight_Men_Killed_In_Buncrana%2C_Co_Donegal

And on another note I have seen the Garda report into an accident where two people were killed and there is a picture of the speedo stuck at 96mph in one car. The car had clipped a van prior to the main impact with an oncoming car. The cars were at least 150 metres apart after the collision and a back seat passenger in the 96mph car survived. Shows how valuable a seat belt is.

keithclancy

r3nu4l wrote: »

There's more than one Paddy Farrelly (as my gran used to say) but this seems close to the bone! I hope they are not one and the same!!

I wouldn't believe the papers .. they might have drawn that conclusion themselves:

http://www.enniscorthyguardian.ie/breaking-news/national-news/eightdeath-crash-worst-on-record-2255100.html

The driver of the car carrying eight people was named as Sean Kelly from the Urris area. He was in a critical but stable condition in Letterkenny General Hospital.

Wibbs

foggy_lad wrote: »

maybe in an old cortina or vauxhall but modern cars can get up to speed just as quickly with 7-8 people on board and braking distances are slightly greater.

With the utmost respect to you, that is so wrong as to be laughable. Do you have any idea of the kinetic energy a half tonne at even 50kph has. Or what is required to stop it? Clearly not and its this ignorance of basic physics pertaining to cars that gets people into trouble or killed. Try putting the suspension and brakes of a starlet into a merc and see how much longer it takes to stop or how badly it changes direction.

the only thing this young man did wrong was to innocently help his friends get home the same as thousands of other young lads(and young women) all over the country every weekend.

Innocently? He clearly knew that overloading a car is dangerous. If he or anyone else doesnt then frankly they're morons. And such people should be taken off our roads until such time as they learn.

if this young man is locked up for being stupid then the same sentence should apply to EVERY driver that allows more than the maximum into their vehicle! the jails wont cope!

They should be fined and have their licence to drive revoked.

LIGHTNING wrote:

If the driver stands on the brake pedal with a load of steering wound in and combine that with the excessive weight of the 6 passengers it could cause some nasty oversteer. That also isnt taking into account the condition of the cars tyres or road surface either.

I would have thought more understeer as the weight shifted forward under heavy braking, impact and violent steering inputs? Though if you unloaded the back yep I could see it stepping out. Probably initial understeer followed by violent oversteer.

While driver aids like stability control and ABS do help in a big way, they will only do so within the envelope designed for the car and the conditions. I also have a little concern about them as too many muppets and non car types I know rely on them far too much to get them out of bother, rather than relying on the mark 1 human brain to not get them into it in the first place.

shocked12

keithclancy wrote: »

I wouldn't believe the papers .. they might have drawn that conclusion themselves:

http://www.enniscorthyguardian.ie/breaking-news/national-news/eightdeath-crash-worst-on-record-2255100.html

That is also wrong. The driver of the Passat was Sean Kelly Ballymagan, The diriver of the COrolla was Hugh Friel, Dunaff which is in Urris. These journalists are bloody useless, they put the wrong names on the rte website too then had them down again for a few hours.

K-9

I think lads, we can add the Derry Journal speculation as another unsubstantiated rumour and well anything from the Herald should be taken with a healthy dose of cynicism, could well have been copied from the Telegraph.

Some great amateur sleuths here, though in fairness, probably better than some journalists.

-Chris-

-Chris- wrote: »

There is no issue with a robust debate about road safety in general and the (concretely known) facts of this case, but there's a very clear line of civility, and if it's crossed, there will be infractions and bannings as appropriate.

I don't think I could have been more clear.

The following users are banned for three days:

spottyelephant wrote: »

What is all the confusion about?

The passat driver was f/uckng about and it resulted in this mess. Simple as.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

These young fellas died of stupidity and i wouldn't have a problem with that other than the fact that they took someone else completely innocent with them.

Brendog wrote: »

Thats all it takes unfortunatly....a couple of fookin' Yahoo's with no knowledge of mortality and no brains to match.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

.......And that would have zero effect on someone like that. You can't cure stupid, no matter how hard you try.

The following two points are pointless and would be considered relatively redundant in a "normal" thread, they certainly have no place in a thread dealing with such a sensitive subject. Please stop.

NewApproach wrote: »

The thread title is misleading.

Accidents don't happen by accident.

robbie_998 wrote: »

:pac:

And greeno, I'm giving you a warning for the post below. Threatening legal action against boards results in an instant siteban, and if you were more explicit with a threat that would be the end result.

greeno wrote: »

Get your facts striaght before you go throwing around accusations. The driver was Sean Kelly not Liam Kelly.

Liam was not the driver of the car in question unless Boards.ie wants a legal case I suggest they moderate these posts more stringintly.

@everyone. The line is clearly drawn, please post with due respect and civility.

keithclancy

shocked12 wrote: »

That is also wrong. The driver of the Passat was Sean Kelly Ballymagan, The diriver of the COrolla was Hugh Friel, Dunaff which is in Urris. These journalists are bloody useless, they put the wrong names on the rte website too then had them down again for a few hours.

Thats what I mean, wouldn't believe the details of any paper to be fact imo.

magicbastarder

i certainly didn't read that as greeno himself threatening to sue; he seemed to be implying that *someone* might.

robbie_998

-Chris- wrote: »

The following two points are pointless and would be considered relatively redundant in a "normal" thread, they certainly have no place in a thread dealing with such a sensitive subject. Please stop.

the user i quoted stated that "8 people in a passat... it happens"

my response to that was to show how shocked i was and how morally wrong that statement was.

sorry if i didn't make that clear.

-Chris-

magicbastarder wrote: »

i certainly didn't read that as greeno himself threatening to sue; he seemed to be implying that *someone* might.

Don't back-seat moderate please. If greeno has an issue with my moderation I'm sure he can take it up with me directly.

Anan1

magicbastarder wrote: »

i certainly didn't read that as greeno himself threatening to sue; he seemed to be implying that *someone* might.

If you've any queries with/are unhappy with moderation then PM the mod in question rather than bringing it up on-thread.

-Chris-

robbie_998 wrote: »

sorry if i didn't make that clear.

You didn't, but it's fine.

Back on-topic please...

x in the city

way too many people in the car

all young men, flying off the road and no sense.

were they attempting a world record for the number of people into a car., i bet they had no belts on either

unkel

discovery98 wrote: »

If the BT has named the driver correctly, then sounds like this story from 2008 refers to the driver :

http://www.derryjournal.com/inishowen/Lorry-driver-caught-doing-39doughnuts39.4237379.jp?articlepage=1

Let's hope we are not talking about the same driver or a close family member here.

According to that article, Liam Kelly already had a previous conviction before that one in 2008.

In his ultimate wisdom judge Zaidan stated:

What I have heard would disqualify you but because it is my last day to hold court in Inishowen, in Buncrana, I will use my discretion and not disqualify you.

So he convicted him of dangerous driving but let him off the hook with just a fine. And then Judge Zaidan took up court in Naas where he sent drivers to jail for speeding on a motorway. Unbelievable stuff really.

Anan1

unkel wrote: »

So he convicted him of dangerous driving but let him off the hook with just a fine. And then Judge Zaidan took up court in Naas where he sent drivers to jail for speeding on a motorway. Unbelievable stuff really.

And, of all the reasons, because it was his last day?

Wibbs

Stop the presses *******Shock horror, Irish judge acts a bit daft*******

Stark

Obviously there was a very clear difference between the two cases of dangerous driving. One came from a lovely family, the other may or may not have.

Uncle Paul

Anan1 wrote: »

And, of all the reasons, because it was his last day?

Someone in a position of power in Ireland doing something irresponsible and downright lazy? Surely not!

We live in the Land of Ah Shoore It'll Be Grand. This country is pathetic.

kwinabeeste

Matt Cooper is discussing it at the moment.

Some guy from Donegal on his show said that the driver Mr Kelly was scheduled to pick up his HGV for a trip the next morning......

SouperComputer

Any death is tragic, but the sheer volume of deaths in this one collision is really saddening. RIP.

Looking at the vid\pics its seems as if the heavy damage done to the Passat is on the passenger side-side and on the Corolla passenger side front. Of course there were secondary (and more) impacts involved, but I dont think this is as clear cut as some would like to think. Hopefully a full, proper investigation will be performed.

Tragic.

Ammonite

Horrendous, horrendous carnage.

I am from Donegal although not from that area and do not know the men involved. I know how close knit the community is up there, and that they are absolutely shocked and devastated by this.

I think in this sort of situation, any judgement should be reserved until more details emerge. It is too early and insensitive to lay the blame at any one individuals door, especially on a public forum.

The Big Red Button

r3nu4l wrote: »

On another note, years ago when I was 18 I was visiting relatives in Mayo. A local lad there invited me to the local nightclub and we hitched in. The guy who brought us in was someone I didn't know but my friend did, so I trusted him. We were lucky to get there alive. He drove at over 120 mph on stretches of road where the most he should have been doing was about 50 mph. He overtook on bends and didn't slow down coming to blind bends (:mad:). To top it all I later learned that he only had sight in one eye, meaning that his perception of depth was severely impaired. Okay the car wasn't overcrowded but had I died that night I'd hate to think that people were assuming I was out for a joyride and I deserved it. We all make mistakes, some of us are luckier than others.

I was thinking similar when I heard how many were in the car ... I thought to myself, I would never, ever be stupid enough to risk my life like that.

And it's true, I really wouldn't. These days, I'm very careful about whose car I'll get into, and wouldn't hesitate to demand that a driver stop and let me out if I didn't trust his/her driving.

But then, I remembered an incident when I was sixteen. My friend had gotten a new boyfriend, a few years older than us and a total knacker, and he wanted to bring us for a spin in his new car. So five of us got into the car, and he drove us from Sligo up to Donegal ... where he had a couple of pints, met up with two friends, and drove us back to Sligo with drink on him (not much, but still), speeding and messing around, and with seven of us in the car. Was I an idiot for getting into the car? Hell ya! But all that was on my mind was that I couldn't possibly ring home for a lift as my parents would kill me for getting in the car and going so far with a stranger in the first place ... somehow, at the time, the wrath of my parents seemed worth risking my life for! :rolleyes: But I just remember, squashed in that tiny back seat with no seat belt, all the way home I was sure that we were going to crash and I was absolutely terrified, and I remember swearing to myself not to let myself ever, ever end up in a similar situation again.

The thing is, I definitely learned my lesson ... and I hate the thought that one or two of the young lads in that car might have been terrified and might have been making similar promises to themselves, but unfortunately they never got a chance to learn from their mistakes and cop on a bit.

I have to admit, I find it harder to find sympathy for the driver. Being in control of a car, you're taking on such a responsibility both towards your passengers and towards other road users. It's pretty obvious that this driver didn't see it as such. I know people may talk of peer pressure and that he might have been talked into bringing so many with him - well, in my opinion, if you're not mature enough to have a bit of cop on and ignore peer pressure, than you're not mature enough to drive. However I suppose "cop on" and "maturity" just aren't part of the driving test!

Having said that, imagine waking up to face the nightmare that he is going to face into (if he survives.) I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished by the courts - of course he should - but I would imagine that any punishment will be pretty much irrelevant to him.

RIP all the victims involved.

Liamario

It pisses me off when I hear all the excuses for why there were 8 men sitting in a 5 seater (Eg no transport in area).
This is not an excuse!!! Everyone with a brain knows that if you are in a car and are not seat belted, you are putting your life on the line and others in the vehicle.
People generally are far too quick to justify doing dangerous and blatantly unsafe things.
There is no scenario where you should be sitting in a car unbelted and there is no definitely no excuse to be doing this with another 8 people in a vehicle fit for 5.

I sincerely struggle to sympathize for the deceased (except the lone driver) At 16-24, there is no excuse for this and their deaths should not be publicised as a tragedy, anymore than someone firing random bullets on a street.

Anan1

Liamario wrote: »

I sincerely struggle to sympathize for the deceased (except the lone driver)

I really can't see how Chris could have been any clearer. Banned for three days.

dak

My sympathy to all the relatives of the deceased! Its a sad day to hear of one road fatality let alone 8.

I'm not going to add speculation to this thread regarding the cause apart than to say that speed must have been a factor judging by the state of the cars.

If there is one message we could all heed from this tragedy is slow down .. better to arrive late!

seniorolaighin

Onkle wrote: »

Final warning, have respect for all of the deceased

its hard for people to have respect for the deceased when these people (more likely than not) didnt have respect for the living - this crap of johnny was this and that after he has passed away is bull - if they were in the wrong it needs to be said now - dead or alive.

-Chris-

seniorolaighin wrote: »

its hard for people to have respect for the deceased when these people (more likely than not) didnt have respect for the living - this crap of johnny was this and that after he has passed away is bull - if they were in the wrong it needs to be said now - dead or alive.

It's hard to have respect for even a few days until the families have had the chance to bury their loved ones?

Honestly, I think this thread is treading a fine line and as such I'm locking it pending mod discussion.