Stage 9 - Tuesday, July 13 2010, Morzine-Avoriaz - Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne

ednwireland

contador, schleck , evans had to head ?

Classic day in the Alps

Following a rest day in beautiful Morzine, the peloton confronts the toughest Alpine stage. There are four big climbs culminating in the fearsome Madeleine.

The top sections of the Colombière will be familiar from last year when the riders came onto this side of the climb from the Col de Romme and Alberto Contador’s attack dropped team-mate Andreas Klöden but not the Schlecks.

The Aravis is straightforward, the Saisies less so, and the Madeleine’s 20km ascent is brutal. The realistic contenders for the overall will emerge.

on_the_nickel

30k after the Madeleine means it could all come back together again. Stages like this one annoy me.

Hermy

Anyone think Contador will try to repeat what he did last year on the climb to Verbier?
Is the Madeleine a climb that would suit him if he has the legs?

petethedrummer

on_the_nickel wrote: »

30k after the Madeleine means it could all come back together again. Stages like this one annoy me.

I dunno, it won't all come back together. There are two 1st categories and a 2nd category and the Madaleine itself. The leaders will be thinned out at the top. Then there will be cat and mouse.

Vinokourov is a very good descender and if he gets over near the leaders he could tag back on and help Contador to the finish. Evans is a decent decender so if he doesn't make it over with Schleck and Contador he could get back on. Dunno much about Kreuziger, should make it up with the leaders. Schleck isn't a good descender. Wiggins won't make it up with the leaders and would have to TT to get back in touch.

I don't think Schleck or Contador will attack but it someone close on GC does, then it may force their hand.

niceonetom

S. Sanchez proved he could climb with anyone yesterday, if he's among the first over the top he's capable of building a gap on the descent to solo to a win.

ednwireland

18.5km descent + 13.5km from the bottom of the descent to the finish i gues they'll test each other out on the madelaine and if the elastic breaks they'll go for it. but i cant see too much efforet going in (i hope to be proved wrong)

+1 i dislike these stages seems like the waste of a good climb

was it 08 when they hardly had a summit finish proved a boring race

Brian?

on_the_nickel wrote: »

30k after the Madeleine means it could all come back together again. Stages like this one annoy me.

I don't understand why its not a mountain top finish. Because of this I don't think Contador will attack, whether he has the legs or not. I think Schelck has to try something though, there are so few hors category climbs that he can attack on he has to go for it.

Brian?

ednwireland wrote: »

18.5km descent + 13.5km from the bottom of the descent to the finish i gues they'll test each other out on the madelaine and if the elastic breaks they'll go for it. but i cant see too much efforet going in (i hope to be proved wrong)

+1 i dislike these stages seems like the waste of a good climb

was it 08 when they hardly had a summit finish proved a boring race

The only one I can remember in 08 was Alpe d'Huez when Sastre took the Tour.

Hermy

Hermy wrote: »

Anyone think Contador will try to repeat what he did last year on the climb to Verbier?
Is the Madeleine a climb that would suit him if he has the legs?

Of course he won't you idiot! It's not a summit finish!:mad:

petethedrummer

There was a good stage in the Giro where Nibala, Scarponi and Basso went over the top and stayed ahead of the Evans, Sastre, Vino, Arroyo group. But I suppose Liquigas had two good climbers that day in order to do it. Does any team have two good climbers capable of doing something similar? If Frank Schleck was still around maybe Saxo could have done it.

Stage 19 it was: http://www.roadcycling.com/articles/2010-Giro-d-Italia-Results---Stage-19_003590.shtml

07Lapierre

Cadel Evans....he's going well and will want to defend the yellow jersey.

Brian?

petethedrummer wrote: »

There was a good stage in the Giro where Nibala, Scarponi and Basso went over the top and stayed ahead of the Evans, Sastre, Vino, Arroyo group. But I suppose Liquigas had two good climbers that day in order to do it. Does any team have two good climbers capable of doing something similar? If Andy Schleck was still around maybe Saxo could have done it.

Stage 19 it was: http://www.roadcycling.com/articles/2010-Giro-d-Italia-Results---Stage-19_003590.shtml

Astana and Radioshack have the riders to do it. Its a matter of whether they want to expend the energy when there's a chance they'll be caught on the descent or flat.

niceonetom

petethedrummer wrote: »

There was a good stage in the Giro where Nibala, Scarponi and Basso went over the top and stayed ahead of the Evans, Sastre, Vino, Arroyo group. But I suppose Liquigas had two good climbers that day in order to do it. Does any team have two good climbers capable of doing something similar? If Andy Schleck was still around maybe Saxo could have done it.

Stage 19 it was: http://www.roadcycling.com/articles/2010-Giro-d-Italia-Results---Stage-19_003590.shtml

That was all about Nibali, who can go down a hill like mercury. On his own Basso wouldn't have stayed away.

According to his own account of the day (on his blog) Cadel descended very badly, nearly hitting a parked campervan early in the descent. On a good day, he can go down hill faster than most of the guys around him on the climbs - certainly faster than Schleck and probaly faster than Berto if he's been stripped of Vino et al.

I'm hugely in favour of hilltop finishes, but this might be interesting anyway.

ROK ON

About 75km of ascent on this stage. Savage.

petethedrummer

briankeating wrote: »

Astana and Radioshack have the riders to do it. Its a matter of whether they want to expend the energy when there's a chance they'll be caught on the descent or flat.

Suppose that settles it then. won't happen. I don't think Astana would bother to go on the attack and I don't think Radioshack have a realistic overall contender. If Levi Leipheimer wins this tour, I will eat my hat*.

*Its a tiny biscuit shaped hat made out of biscuit, but a hat nonetheless.

niceonetom

briankeating wrote: »

Astana and Radioshack have the riders to do it. Its a matter of whether they want to expend the energy when there's a chance they'll be caught on the descent or flat.

Well, in this cringingly awful interview with Horner it looks like Radioshack don't know wtf to do now that LA is gone from the GC.

C.Horner wrote:

Asked whether the team would now ride for Leipheimer, who is up to eighth overall, 2:14 down on Evans, Horner said, “I don’t think we ride for seventh or eighth. Do we look after him? Sure, absolutely, we always have. But do we put guys in the front for eighth place on GC? I don’t think so. We’ll just have to make a plan B or a plan Z.”

Levi can't get no respect can he?

Brian?

niceonetom wrote: »

Well, in this cringingly awful interview with Horner it looks like Radioshack don't know wtf to do now that LA is gone from the GC.



Levi can't get no respect can he?

That's a feckin joke.

It should work like this:

You have a man 2:14 down on GC, he's now your team leader. You all have to ride for him to get him the best GC placing possible. Listen Lance I know you won 7 tours, but you're knackered on the GC, you have to work for Levi now. Tough.

Moflojo

niceonetom wrote: »

Well, in this cringingly awful interview with Horner it looks like Radioshack don't know wtf to do now that LA is gone from the GC.



Levi can't get no respect can he?

Must be some kind of miscommunication here, what Horner says would make perfect sense if he was talking about Lance. The question is paraphrased, and possibly incorrect.

niceonetom

Moflojo wrote: »

Must be some kind of miscommunication here, what Horner says would make perfect sense if he was talking about Lance. The question is paraphrased, and possibly incorrect.

Yet again, you show that you alone really know what someone is saying. Bravo sir.

Moflojo

niceonetom wrote: »

Yet again, you show that you alone really know what someone is saying. Bravo sir.

Give over.

If the question had been something like "Do you ride for Levi, now that Lance is so far down on GC?' and you read Horner's response it makes perfect sense.

The question is not quoted directly, so don't jump to any conclusions.

But no doubt Lance has bullied the rest of his team into backing him no matter what and will threaten Levi with expulsion from the team if he tries to take all the glory...

niceonetom

Moflojo wrote: »

Give over.

Look, you've quoted me twice today saying that I was misreading things. So less of the "give over" stuff, ok?

Moflojo wrote: »

If the question had been something like "Do you ride for Levi, now that Lance is so far down on GC?' and you read Horner's response it makes perfect sense.

If he was asked the question (which, as far as I can tell, you've pulled out of your ass derived from superior reading skills) was asked as you have above the answer should be an unswerving YES. Not riding for you're best placed man, in fact publicly belittling him (and he's little enough to begin with) is poor form and tactically absurd.

Moflojo wrote: »

The question is not quoted directly, so don't jump to any conclusions.

Quoted for irony.

Moflojo

niceonetom wrote: »

Well, in this cringingly awful interview with Horner it looks like Radioshack don't know wtf to do now that LA is gone from the GC.



Levi can't get no respect can he?

I advise you to click on your own link once again niceonetom, see what happens.

niceonetom

Moflojo wrote: »

I advise you to click on your own link once again niceonetom, see what happens.

Gald to see someone stuck a sock in the sycophant's mouth and has pointed out the obvious, and only, path open to the Shack: ride for Levi.

Horner's a good lieutenant but he really shouldn't be allowed in front of a reporter until someone with a brain has told him what he's supposed to say.

IM0

niceonetom wrote: »

I'm hugely in favour of hilltop finishes, but this might be interesting anyway.

especially if it rains, which is what happened with Niballi and the Giro

Moflojo

niceonetom wrote: »

Gald to see someone stuck a sock in the sycophant's mouth and has pointed out the obvious, and only, path open to the Shack: ride for Levi.

Horner's a good lieutenant but he really shouldn't be allowed in front of a reporter until someone with a brain has told him what he's supposed to say.

I'm just peeved that it adds an even greater sense of futility to our earlier disagreement.

niceonetom

Moflojo wrote: »

I'm just peeved that it adds an even greater sense of futility to our earlier disagreement.

Me too.

doccy

It does seem a waste of a stage tbh. Still if someone gets in trouble on the last climb, they could still lose time even 30 km from the finish. Have a feeling it'll be Evans and Wiggins and not Contador or Schleck.

IM0

I remember a stage to briancon a few years ago like this that Vino won, I can see him having a go if he's released from dom duties for the day [not likely]

either way lets hope it rains so there can be some excitement injected into a 'boring' stage

alibabba

Its a nice finish, a bit different to the normal mountain finish. Tactics will be key, will a contender like evans make a break going up with the goal of holding onto his time on the decent. Very interesting . I still say schlek looks extremely strong, he must make a move tomorrow if he wants yellow. Leaving it till the pyr 's could be too little too late

Lumen

alibabba wrote: »

Its a nice finish, a bit different to the normal mountain finish. Tactics will be key, will a contender like evans make a break going up with the goal of holding onto his time on the decent. Very interesting

I agree. If it was all summit finishes the tour would be reduced to a series of Andy vs Albie hillclimb TTs.

Was it Nibali that was descending so well in the Giro? And Basso so poorly?

papac

Does anyone know what the final descent is actually like.?? Technical or sweeping fast or a bit of both.???

I love Mt top finishes but as Lumen says its a grand tour and not a Hill climb. All aspects of road cycling should be tested-including descending of course.

petethedrummer

Lumen wrote: »

Was it Nibali that was descending so well in the Giro? And Basso so poorly?

yup

doccy

I guess the reality is, if someone is 2 minutes behind on the peak they're seriously going to struggle to make that back on the descent and flat.
Still I have a horrible feeling it'll be a fairly high paced procession up the last climb and i think, but hope not, evans, wiggins and ANO will suffer.

niceonetom

We all seem to have ignored the most obvious outcome for tomorrow: LA soloing off the front of the pack and building an almighty gap to recoup the time he lost when he cracked on the last mountain. Anything Landis can do, Lance can do better - and without any of that testosterone patch on the nads nonsense that that drunk menonite had to resort to.

doccy

niceonetom wrote: »

We all seem to have ignored the most obvious outcome for tomorrow: LA soloing off the front of the pack and building an almighty gap to recoup the time he lost when he cracked on the last mountain. Anything Landis can do, Lance can do better - and without any of that testosterone patch on the nads nonsense that that drunk menonite had to resort to.

I do believe LA would need some Team America style rockets attached to each side of the saddle.
Poor old Floyd, wasn't a good enough cyclist or a good enough cheater. Call me cynical but 25 years of the TDF taught me that. And still I love it...

on_the_nickel

Lumen wrote: »

I agree. If it was all summit finishes the tour would be reduced to a series of Andy vs Albie hillclimb TTs.

Was it Nibali that was descending so well in the Giro? And Basso so poorly?

I completely agree its good to mix it up, but it's the same tomorrow and in 2 of the Pyreneean stages! Thats 4 stages with big climbs, but downhill/flat finishes.

Junior

All Bert needs to do is mark everyone else and keep a team mate or two nearby, if they blow before the top of the climb once they don't lose a redonkulous amount of time to the leaders with a few team mates and 30k to go they should get them back.

However, the problem for Schleck the lesser is that he needs minutes for the final TT not seconds, so if he's going to do that, he's got to get saxo bank on the front and blow every last man from Astana out of the group and have Bert on his own for the final climb and then attack himself. If he can keep other riders like Sanchez, Evans, Basso, Nibali with him and do a deal for the stage or two he might have a chance of stitching it into Bert. I don't see BMC doing much defending for Cadel, I think he's going to have to mark people himself, so that also drops a few allies for Schleck.

That would also mean that Schleck is being aggressive so I don't know about that.. Tips for the stage, it's hard to pick one due to the flat run in, I would have thought Sanchez or Gesink could be there or there abouts for a mountain top.

ROK ON

Slightly OT but pertaining to Toms desire to have mountaintop finishes. The current TDF route organised is toying with the idea of avoiding all major climbs in Alps and Pyrenees and have lots and lots of hilly and mid mountain stages. Idea is to have a tour of breakaways where's any of 20 guys could be in with a serious chance of winning. Its a few years away, but I think it would be worth the experiment.

on_the_nickel

Junior wrote: »

All Bert needs to do is mark everyone else and keep a team mate or two nearby, if they blow before the top of the climb once they don't lose a redonkulous amount of time to the leaders with a few team mates and 30k to go they should get them back.

However, the problem for Schleck the lesser is that he needs minutes for the final TT not seconds, so if he's going to do that, he's got to get saxo bank on the front and blow every last man from Astana out of the group and have Bert on his own for the final climb and then attack himself. If he can keep other riders like Sanchez, Evans, Basso, Nibali with him and do a deal for the stage or two he might have a chance of stitching it into Bert. I don't see BMC doing much defending for Cadel, I think he's going to have to mark people himself, so that also drops a few allies for Schleck.

That would also mean that Schleck is being aggressive so I don't know about that.. Tips for the stage, it's hard to pick one due to the flat run in, I would have thought Sanchez or Gesink could be there or there abouts for a mountain top.

I wouldn't be surprised if RadioShack help Schleck, just out of spite from JB and LA.

SubLuminal

Lance armstrong to win after contadors shoes come off and take out the entire peloton. A dog to run out into the road and be bunny hopped with "quicksilver" style bar-spins by schleck and roche. LA to use flip flop hub and do some tricks with his 25 minute lead at the end to entertain the crowd.

petethedrummer

Ok, name your winner time: Vinokourov.
(pick one, no ifs and buts)

TinyExplosions

Voeckler

-you never know

Hermy

Contador to be first of the main contenders over the Madeleine but not sure about the stage win.

Dodge

Just on the Horner quote. It kinda makes sense to me. Anyone who's watched cycling in the last 10 years knows Levi can't win this, and Radioshack have some cracking riders. its completely understandable for riders like Horner and Brajkovic to ride as (super) domestiques for someone they think can finish on the podium. However when that becomes far less likely, I think they'll shift their focus to trying to get a stage win or two.

I've absolutely no doubt that a Radioshack rider will attack today.

I'll go with Brajkovic

Lumen

Leipheimer.

dastardly00

me@ucd wrote: »

I remember a stage to briancon a few years ago like this that Vino won, I can see him having a go if he's released from dom duties for the day [not likely]

either way lets hope it rains so there can be some excitement injected into a 'boring' stage

Vino to win the stage (he never bothers with much domestique work and only looks after himself!)

corny

**** it i'll go for Armstrong. His team have the ability to work and make a point after the disappointment 2 days ago.

kennyb3

Gesink or Kreuzinger

Dodge

God I love Thos Hushovd. He's involved in a breakway with some good/great climbers to get 6 points in the Green jersey race. He should get over the Cat 4 climb, win the points and then let the bus take him the rest of the way...

The break so far;
Jerome Pineau (QuickStep), Thos Hushovd (Cevelo), Jens Voigt (Saxo Bank), Cyril Gautier (Bbox), Luis Leon Sanchez (Caisse d'Epargne) , Jose Ivan Gutierrez (Caisse d'Epargne), Christophe Moreau (Caisse d'Epargne), Sandy Casar ( FdJ), Rinaldo Nocentini (AG2R), Johannes Fröhlinger (Milram), Anthony Charteau ( Bbox).

mloc123

Anyone have a eurosport stream?

ROK ON

Sam Sanchez. The winner today will need to be able to be in top groups going over andthen descend better than everyone else.