NI

stovelid

My mate lives in an (Catholic) interface area in Belfast and overheard a few lads (Catholics) complaining that they'd come all the way across the city and nothing was happening.

My name is URL

Donny5 wrote: »

Do you have a source for this? If it is true, then they will pale into irrelevance and die out without being banned.

Banning them will not only be a step away from universal human rights, but also give ammunition to firebrands who can then say that the devolved government is attacking their traditions.

I abhor sectarianism, and the myriad of problems caused by it, right up to the events of last night and today, but it is not a problem that can or should be tackled with legislation. Secterian violence should be prosecuted as any other violent crime, and treated as the thuggery that it is. I really don't believe that the marches are the cause of the violence. A catalyst, maybe, but the causes are deeper and cannot be simply outlawed.

Anyway, it's all just my opinion, and, as usual, I'm probably wrong.

How would it die out though? If a minority of people champion parades then a minority will follow, and so the cycle continues.

The parades themselves are the embodiment of sectarianism. Especially in a place where the divides exist within such close proximity. It's ridiculous that a Parades Commission exists when trouble invariably develops during the events.

That's just my opinion too, and I'm also usually wrong :P

gurramok

Tug Of War alright http://www.u.tv/utvmediaplayer/default.aspx?vidid=131372&chapid=106998&arti_id=5d6b539c-6b79-468f-a3b7-b4e767d6485c

Anyone see the Utv news at 10:30pm? Showed a group throwing all sorts of stuff from the top of shops, crazy goings on.

stovelid

My name is URL wrote: »

It's ridiculous that a Parades Commission exists when trouble invariably develops during the events.

Believe it or not, I read that the assembly proposed the abolishment of the commission and the Orange Order failed to turn up in enough numbers to debate it, despite being vehemently opposed it. Apparently they want to discredit the DUP. You couldn't make it up.

Still: banning the parades will not work. It's grist to the mill of professional victimization types. Dialogue should still be pursued to accommodate people's culture, no matter how daft it is. Same goes for your hunger strike museums and any other thing that The Other Side find abhorrent

Bloody Nipples

I don't get why nationalists are so desperate for the 6 counties. 30% of the population are employed in public service as a method of keeping unemployment (though I do accept the majority of these are necessary) down and the British government blows £5billion on it a year to just keep the place ticking over. If you think the Irish Government can afford that you're having a laugh.

I say cut the ropes and let it drift off.

fryup

its the real IRA knuckledeads, secretly hopeing that the PSNI attack them so as to have an excuse to stir things up

Terry

Dear Ulster,
Here you go.
Now go and **** off annoying the rest of the island.

Mike 1972

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

I think the Orange Order should stick to marching in their own areas, .

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Not much space inside the grounds of your average orange hall for marching around in I would imagine.....................

Donny5

Donny5 wrote: »

Secterian violence should be prosecuted as any other violent crime, and treated as the thuggery that it is. I really don't believe that the marches are the cause of the violence. A catalyst, maybe, but the causes are deeper and cannot be simply outlawed.

I agree. Banning marches would just make things much worse. Not only would it lead to a surge in violence from loyalists, but no doubt it would lead to illegal parades being held anyways, which would be a nightmare to police and control, making any confrontation and violence much harder to prevent. In their current form atleast they are well organised and well policed.

The majority of the violence is caused by kids. Look at the news, the protesters at the Ardoyne sitting on the road, generally peacefully by the looks of it, are all adults. Then look at the violence and riots, nearly all little kids in hoodies, playing hard. These kids can't possibly have enough understanding at that age to really know what they are chucking those missiles for (half of them probably don't go to school enough anyways to know the background and history of sectarianism...) They're doing it because they've been brought up in a family/area/community where it's encouraged. I mean, kids stopping a train and trying to set it on fire...that's not sectarian, that's just mind numbingly stupid thuggery.
It's a vicious cycle of a mindset passed down from generation to generation. Banning everything won't make it go away, education and cross commuinty work will help more than anything.

Pauleta

The republican rioters looked like they were having a great time. They all had smiles on their face whilst throwing objects at the police and also how does highjacking cars from innocent people help their cause. Loyalists obviously love the 12th they get to wind up as many people as possible but the republican rioters love this time of year just as much and the people who go on like they are the most oppressed people on earth are in their element.

I absolutely hate the North. There are 2 communities in Northern Ireland and its not the made up ones divided by religion and political beliefs. The 2 communities are the people who deep down love stuff like today, who love either winding up people or love playing the victim cards all their lives and then there are the people who dont give crap about politics and religion, who just want to get on with life and dont give a toss about what flags flying or where an imaginary border is. Ive got a lot of time for the latter, i feel for them that they have to live with these complete losers.

gurramok

Mike 1972 wrote: »

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Not much space inside the grounds of your average orange hall for marching around in I would imagine.....................

Haha. The poster meant they should march where they are welcome and not march where they are not welcome.

Fratton Fred

I think the only lasting solution is to build gas chambers and gas everyone in NI over the age of 7.

Mike 1972

gurramok wrote: »

Haha. The poster meant they should march where they are welcome and not march where they are not welcome.

And how do you propose to ascertain such a thing ?

Pauleta wrote: »

There are 2 communities in Northern Ireland .

There are dozens (if not hundreds) of communities in Northern Ireland. Just like there are in the Republic, the Mainland or just about anyplace else

dfbemt

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I think the only lasting solution is to build gas chambers and gas everyone in NI over the age of 7.

That is highly offensive. Do you not remember WWII and the Holocaust?

DingChavez

The rioters should have worn Spanish jerseys. Idiots missed a chance for great lulz.

gurramok

Mike 1972 wrote: »

And how do you propose to ascertain such a thing ?

Its not rocket science.

Mike 1972

gurramok wrote: »

Its not rocket science.

Is that what passes for an an answer on AH :rolleyes:

Dudess

fryup wrote: »

its the real IRA knuckledeads, secretly hopeing that the PSNI attack them so as to have an excuse to stir things up

It's the Orange Order too - no need to be THAT much of a neo unionist...

gurramok

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Is that what passes for an an answer on AH :rolleyes:

You asked a question with an obvious answer.:rolleyes:

Mike 1972

Dudess wrote: »

It's the Orange Order too - no need to be THAT much of a neo unionist...

Criticism of the OO is all well and good
Suggesting that they are equivalent to or counterparts of the "Real" IRA* is way OTT

* According to some recent media reports there are no less than four organisations using the name "Real IRA" Will the "Real Real IRA" please stand up..........

gurramok wrote: »

You asked a question with an obvious answer.:rolleyes:

No I didnt

now can you give a straight answer to a simple question or are you a spokesperson for Sinn Fein ?

gurramok

Mike 1972 wrote: »

No I didnt

You don't understand do you? Don't let them march where they are not welcomed and it will do alot to ease the tensions. They can still march in hundreds of parades where they are welcomed.

Mike 1972 wrote: »

now can you give a straight answer to a simple question or are you a spokesperson for Sinn Fein

Ah yes, when something you cannot win an argument on you use the SF card as a last resort. :rolleyes:

stovelid

dfbemt wrote: »

Do you not remember WWII and the Holocaust?

Even Fred is not that old.

Dudess

Mike 1972 wrote: »

Criticism of the OO is all well and good
Suggesting that they are equivalent to or counterparts of the "Real" IRA* is way OTT

I'm doing no such thing - just saying that all today's mayhem is the responsibility of fanatical members on both sides.

DB10

THE IRA PTA HAS DISBANDED!!

:eek:

Augmerson

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I think the only lasting solution is to build gas chambers and gas everyone in NI over the age of 7.

I find your ideas intriguing and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

Terry

dfbemt wrote: »

That is highly offensive. Do you not remember WWII and the Holocaust?

I remember the holocaust of the 1840's. Anyone else?

Anyway, the nationalists call us "Free state bastards". The Unionists call us Taigs or something like that. Whatever it is, they just don't like us.

None of them like us, so why the **** should we entertain them?

Leave them to kill each other. That's all they seem to want to do.
When they get tired of that, we'll speak to the survivors.

Do you come from the North and disagree with me?
Here's my solution: You want a united Ireland? Just move to the Republic until all the lunatics have killed each other.
Want to remain with the U.K.? Move there and follow the above advice.

Yeah, it seems a bit extreme, but that's the best deal on the table. Other than that it's just swings and round-a-bouts.
They march. You march. They shoot someone. You shoot someone. They blow something up. You blow something up. They hate the Republic of Ireland. You hate the Republic of Ireland.

We do not care about you. Grow the **** up and stop blowing **** up. Then we'll talk.

Also, **** the orange order and their hate filled marches. They only serve to incite violence.

Fratton Fred

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I think the only lasting solution is to build gas chambers and gas everyone in NI over the age of 7.

I resent that. Please remember that it is only the very small minority of people here who cause trouble, or wish to cause trouble.
I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I said that about where you live.

K-9

irish-stew wrote: »

rossnowlagh in donegal has them as far as i know, although more family orintated i have heard

Convoy and Raphoe have ones too, never a bother.

Mike 1972

Terry wrote: »

I remember the holocaust of the 1840's. Anyone else?.

I did hear about something in the Americas yeah........

gurramok wrote: »

You don't understand do you? Don't let them march where they are not welcomed and it will do alot to ease the tensions. They can still march in hundreds of parades where they are welcomed.

I understand perfectly

Now would you like to actually answering the question or just continue wasting everyones time by evading it

How do you propose to to ascertain where and whether "they" are "welcome"

Answer or GTFO

gurramok wrote: »

Ah yes, when something you cannot win an argument on you use the SF card as a last resort. :rolleyes:

A bit rich coming from someone who deliberately and repeatedly evades a simple question. What are you afraid of ? Surely not that you might expose your idea for the unworkable and hypocritical pile of bigoted nonsense that it is ?

Gunsfortoys

Mike 1972 wrote: »

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Not much space inside the grounds of your average orange hall for marching around in I would imagine.....................

LOL, what an uneducated ignorant soul you are. Go back to your playstation and stop bothering people with your halfwit comments.

As for the people(someone from Confey *snigger*) who are saying "bomb the north" or "cut the ropes" I say look at the own areas of your country, boasting about as many murdering scum if not more. Hypocrites.

As I said before these are a minority of Ignorant idiots that want to derail the progress that has been made in N.I. Also how can you expect to tell people to simply move if they want a "better life", what an absolute load of ****e! Just because a bunch of thugs want to throw a few stones at cops you expect an entire community to up and leave til as you say "let the lunatics kill themselves", cop the **** on it is no solution and besides, these thugs do not infect the whole of N.I but a few areas where there have been problems all along. Stop tarring the entire north with your ignorant generalising.

Terry

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm sure you wouldn't like it if I said that about where you live.

Indeed. It's just a shame that Hitler never got to conquer England and gas its inhabitants.*


*Englishman suggests Irish people be gassed, Hitler style.
Irishman regrets Hitler not making it to England and gassing its inhabitants.
Which is worse?

Well, one is as bad as the other.
I don't think the English should have been gassed by Hitler. That was some nasty shít. Fratton Fred is probably trolling though.

Mike 1972

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

LOL, what an uneducated ignorant soul you are. Go back to your playstation and stop bothering people with your halfwit comments..

Glass houses must be going cheap these days :rolleyes:

Terry

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

LOL, what an uneducated ignorant soul you are. Go back to your playstation and stop bothering people with your halfwit comments.

As for the people(someone from Confey *snigger*) who are saying "bomb the north" or "cut the ropes" I say look at the own areas of your country, boasting about as many murdering scum if not more. Hypocrites.

As I said before these are a minority of Ignorant idiots that want to derail the progress that has been made in N.I. Also how can you expect to tell people to simply move if they want a "better life", what an absolute load of ****e! Just because a bunch of thugs want to throw a few stones at cops you expect an entire community to up and leave til as you say "let the lunatics kill themselves", cop the **** on it is no solution and besides, these thugs do not infect the whole of N.I but a few areas where there have been problems all along. Stop tarring the entire north with your ignorant generalising.

Changing my words to suit your own agenda. You should be a politician.

stovelid

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

(someone from Confey *snigger*)

Gunsfortoys wrote: »

Stop tarring the entire north with your ignorant generalising.

.

Why can't they let the Orange Order march where they want? It is only one day of the year. What harm can orange sashes and beating drums do to someone?

These parades are in towns (mostly cathlolic) in Donegal, and nobody bats an eyelid - hence there is no violence.

Dudess

salonfire wrote: »

Why can't they let the Orange Order march where they want? It is only one day of the year. What harm can orange sashes and beating drums do to someone?

The sentiment behind it?

kumate_champ07

brummytom wrote: »

Why are these Orange marches still allowed to go on? They cause nothing but trouble

because its the only history/culture the prods/orangies up north have, take it away from them and they have no identity and nothing to look forward to. It's quite sad actually.

Terry

salonfire wrote: »

Why can't they let the Orange Order march where they want? It is only one day of the year. What harm can orange sashes and beating drums do to someone?

These parades are in towns (mostly cathlolic) in Donegal, and nobody bats an eyelid - hence there is no violence.

The people of Donegal were not subjected to the oppression received by those in the Six counties. It's as simple as that.
Whilst I do have some disdain for that part of the country, I do recognise that the Catholic community were treated like crap by both the Brithish government and the neighbouring Protestant community. To deny this would be quite foolish.

Mike 1972

Terry wrote: »

the Catholic community were treated like crap by both the Brithish (?) government and the neighbouring Protestant community.

They dont go in for sweeping generalisations much in Confey much do they ?

Pauleta

Terry wrote: »

The people of Donegal were not subjected to the oppression received by those in the Six counties. It's as simple as that.
Whilst I do have some disdain for that part of the country, I do recognise that the Catholic community were treated like crap by both the Brithish government and the neighbouring Protestant community. To deny this would be quite foolish.

You lost me there at Oppression. The refugees in Darfur are oppressed, The Palestinians are oppressed, albino's in Africa are oppressed, the people of Myanmar are oppressed, the 100,000 refugees that have just recently left Kyrgyzstan are oppressed. The free voting, free moving, free to do whatever they want people of Northern Ireland are not ****ing oppressed. They just whinge and whinge and whinge themselves into thinking they are oppressed.

kumate_champ07

Pauleta wrote: »

You lost me there at Oppression. The refugees in Darfur are oppressed, The Palestinians are oppressed, albino's in Africa are oppressed, the people of Myanmar are oppressed, the 100,000 refugees that have just recently left Kyrgyzstan are oppressed. The free voting, free moving, free to do whatever they want people of Northern Ireland are not ****ing oppressed. They just whinge and whinge and whinge themselves into thinking they are oppressed.

where you up north during the troubles? are you aware of the facts surrounding Bloody Sunday?

there was oppression in the 6 counties, Protestants were treated better,had more rights and their paramilitaries were helped by the Ruc with their murdering

Mike 1972

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

their paramilitaries

:rolleyes:

kumate_champ07

Mike 1972 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

youre probably misunderstanding me, thats ok.

Pauleta

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

where you up north during the troubles? are you aware of the facts surrounding Bloody Sunday?

there was oppression in the 6 counties, Protestants were treated better,had more rights and their paramilitaries were helped by the Ruc with their murdering

The troubles are over. Its time for the people up north to grow up and stop hating people who are the exact same as themselves and start acting like civilised human beings. If they are not gonna do that then they should stop wasting our government and the British governments time trying to get people to live like civilised human beings. Its all very very petty.

kumate_champ07

Pauleta wrote: »

The troubles are over. Its time for the people up north to grow up and stop hating people who are the exact same as themselves and start acting like civilised human beings. If they are not gonna do that then they should stop wasting our government and the British governments time trying to get people to live like civilised human beings. Its all very very petty.

yes they are over, but theres a tiny minority of scum trying to fúck things up at the moment, their only support is young lads with too much free time and not enough intelligence/education/sense

the marches are still a sensitive issue tho and understandably

javaboy

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I think the only lasting solution is to build gas chambers and gas everyone in NI over the age of 7.

So your solution is that when someone causes a problem you just get rid of them? Ok I'll give it a whirl.

Banned for trolling.

javaboy

Mike 1972 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

There's enough rubbish going on in this thread without getting hung up over semantics. For "their paramilitaries" read "the paramilitaries who identify/align themselves with Protestantism" and move on.

steddyeddy

Terry wrote: »

I remember the holocaust of the 1840's. Anyone else?

Anyway, the nationalists call us "Free state bastards". The Unionists call us Taigs or something like that. Whatever it is, they just don't like us.

None of them like us, so why the **** should we entertain them?

Leave them to kill each other. That's all they seem to want to do.
When they get tired of that, we'll speak to the survivors.

Do you come from the North and disagree with me?
Here's my solution: You want a united Ireland? Just move to the Republic until all the lunatics have killed each other.
Want to remain with the U.K.? Move there and follow the above advice.

Yeah, it seems a bit extreme, but that's the best deal on the table. Other than that it's just swings and round-a-bouts.
They march. You march. They shoot someone. You shoot someone. They blow something up. You blow something up. They hate the Republic of Ireland. You hate the Republic of Ireland.

We do not care about you. Grow the **** up and stop blowing **** up. Then we'll talk.

Also, **** the orange order and their hate filled marches. They only serve to incite violence.

yea the worst thing in my opinion about the north is that some people in it have this everything is rosy attitude about the unionists, republicans and dual nationalisits all living together and sucking each others k*obs but by definition ah unionist would be a polar oppisite to a republican, they cant co exist happily in a disputed country!

This cycle has been going on for years this english, irish, none of the above, all of the above or a bit of each attitude doesnt work it hasnt.

steddyeddy

just a point on anyone anti orange is a ra head sort of thing, these are people who treated the catholic minority in the north like animals, they were chased out of their homes and mistreated by the state. The orange order spread a lot of anti catholic propaganda and every year at on the 12th of july they have a victory march representing a catholic defeat.

Now what part of that would i have to be a ra head to dislike? My uncle played a large part in the catholic civil rights movement in the north and he certainly isnt a ra head. there was genune injustices committed up there in the name of religion it wasnt all in the name of nationality.

steddyeddy

Pauleta wrote: »

You lost me there at Oppression. The refugees in Darfur are oppressed, The Palestinians are oppressed, albino's in Africa are oppressed, the people of Myanmar are oppressed, the 100,000 refugees that have just recently left Kyrgyzstan are oppressed. The free voting, free moving, free to do whatever they want people of Northern Ireland are not ****ing oppressed. They just whinge and whinge and whinge themselves into thinking they are oppressed.

Well the catholics definatly were at one stage oppressed