impact of porn

JuliusCaesar

Found this in Humanities - thought maybe a more informed discussion could be had here. What do you all think of this and her book?

Valmont

This post is as informed as you can get, JC, although I would be interested in hearing about this from a psychological point of view. It is such an emotive area that I find reasoned arguments, like the one above, to be in short supply.

Kooli

Anecdotally from my own casework, i have had a mix of clients who have used porn in what seems to be non-problematic way, and others who have used it with very negative effects. One admitted that he did find himself objectifying women as a result (that was his own phrase). Another found that he didn't find 'ordinary' sex sufficiently arousing as a result, but he didn't want the women he was with to actually engage in porn-style sex with him, so he was left unable to achieve fulfillment with real women.

It's a really interesting issue I think, and I find it incredibly naive when people think that increased access to porn, increased frequency of use of porn, and increasingly 'extreme' porn won't have any impact on real sexual relationships between men and women.

Valmont

Kooli wrote: »

...and I find it incredibly naive when people think that increased access to porn, increased frequency of use of porn, and increasingly 'extreme' porn won't have any impact on real sexual relationships between men and women.

This is just it. You find it naive but is there evidence to back that sentiment up? Or is it just a hunch?

Odysseus

Valmont wrote: »

This is just it. You find it naive but is there evidence to back that sentiment up? Or is it just a hunch?

I'm not well up on it, but Carnes who appears to be a big name is the area of sexual addiction would a place to have a look if you where so inclined.



Edit: I was just thinking about your emphasis on evidence, I know this is where the focus is in psychology. However, I often find myself wondering about the nature of this and what can we call evidence. A example being most of the private drug treatment facilities in Ireland would operate within a 12 Step model. The evidence from psychology would be that is is not a good model, yet these centres are quite sucessful. Even though I have little time for that approach most therapists working in addiction would acknowledge that these centres do get results. You will have to excuse the above if it is formulated badly, as I do lack the training in research methods that are fundamental within psychology. However I do hope that makes a bit of sense.

Kooli

Valmont wrote: »

This is just it. You find it naive but is there evidence to back that sentiment up? Or is it just a hunch?

No I don't know of any evidence. To be honest I'd imagine it's a fairly hard thing to measure. And I don't know who would fund the research. And I don't know how you would get a representative selection of participants to take part. So I won't hold my breath that this research is going to appear any time soon...

It's a 'hunch' that just seems like common sense to me, and as I said pornography has had an effect on some of my clients.

So until some large scale research is done on the matter to tell us whether there is an effect or not, then we are all just giving our opinions (which are also known as 'hunches'). If we all had to have peer-reviewed RCT trial evidence behind everything we said, no discussion would go anywhere!

Valmont

Kooli wrote: »

So until some large scale research is done on the matter to tell us whether there is an effect or not, then we are all just giving our opinions (which are also known as 'hunches'). If we all had to have peer-reviewed RCT trial evidence behind everything we said, no discussion would go anywhere!

I agree. But when people, like the author of the book in question, try to use their hunches to regulate the behaviour of consenting adults we have a very real threat to liberty and individual freedom. That is not OK in my book.

JuliusCaesar

Sorry it's late (I'm saying this as I know I won't remember any names/dates/literature!) but isn't it a bit like we all know that watching violence on TV will impact on kids/people but we can't prove it? That sometimes we have to amass a weight of anecdotal evidence because studies can't replicate real life?

Again, not psychology, but I remember some guy working in Hollywood said that after a while, you are so used to being surrounded by gorgeous women at work, that ordinary-looking women (including your wife/girlfriend) started looking ugly.

Yes, another late night - maybe I'll try to explain myself better tomorrow. At least, I hope that my incoherence is tiredness!

Kooli

I did a search out of curiosity, in case anyone's interested:

Pornography and attitudes supporting violence against women: Revisiting the relationship in nonexperimental studies.
Hald, Gert Martin; Malamuth, Neil M.; Yuen, Carlin; Aggressive Behavior, Vol 36(1), Jan-Feb, 2010. pp. 14-20.
The current results showed an overall significant positive association between pornography use and attitudes supporting violence against women in nonexperimental studies. In addition, such attitudes were found to correlate significantly higher with the use of sexually violent pornography than with the use of nonviolent pornography, although the latter relationship was also found to be significant.

I know it's only one study, but it's a meta-analysis so I thought it was interesting.

Valmont

Do any of you think it is ethical to prohibit the behaviour of consenting adults based on anecdotes and non-experimental correlational studies?

Kooli

Valmont wrote: »

Do any of you think it is ethical to prohibit the behaviour of consenting adults based on anecdotes and non-experimental correlational studies?

Wow what an unbiased question!!

I think we can talk about the potential negative impact of porn without having to run straight to prohibition. I know that's what the woman in the OP's link may have been suggesting, but perhaps we can discuss it on this forum in a slightly less sensationalist manner than the other one.

I see that when I didn't provide evidence, you responded that I had no evidence. When I provided evidence it was the wrong kind of evidence. This kind of "yeah but..." response suggests to me that you have already made your mind up on the matter!

Kooli

Here's another interesting study, seeing as you picked up on the use of non-experimental studies. Again it's a meta-analysis.

Exposure to pornography and acceptance of rape myths.
Allen, Mike; Emmers, Tara; Gebhardt, Lisa; Giery, Mary A.; Journal of Communication, Vol 45(1), Win, 1995. pp. 5-26.
In this meta-analysis, nonexperimental methodology shows almost no effect (exposure to pornography does not increase rape myth acceptance), while experimental studies show positive effect (exposure to pornography does increase rape myth acceptance). Although the experimental studies show that violent pornography has more effect than nonviolent pornography, nonviolent pornography still demonstrates an effect.

JuliusCaesar

Valmont wrote: »

But when people, like the author of the book in question, try to use their hunches to regulate the behaviour of consenting adults we have a very real threat to liberty and individual freedom. That is not OK in my book.

Consenting adults? I think you'll find that by looking into pornography, you are generally looking into male sexuality. There are large differences between male & female sexuality (averages, generalities, I'm not talking about individuals) and this impacts on culture and then the culture impacts to some degree on sexuality. Power relations also are implicated.

Valmont

Kooli wrote: »

Wow what an unbiased question!!

When you cut through the bull****, any attempts to control the production of pornographic material (under-age porn excluded) are effectively prohibiting certain types of behaviour between consenting adults. That sort of hegemony is wrong, in my opinion.

Kooli wrote: »

I see that when I didn't provide evidence, you responded that I had no evidence. When I provided evidence it was the wrong kind of evidence. This kind of "yeah but..." response suggests to me that you have already made your mind up on the matter!

Ironic, considering your research style involves throwing porn into google scholar and cherry picking abstracts that agree with your opinions.

Made my mind up on what matter? What are you talking about, specifically? One study, no matter what the content, is never enough to incite a blanket ban on entire realms of human conduct. I am interested in research concerning the negative aspects of pornography and to be honest, I have only been reading up since reading the humanities thread the other day.

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Consenting adults? I think you'll find that by looking into pornography, you are generally looking into male sexuality. There are large differences between male & female sexuality (averages, generalities, I'm not talking about individuals) and this impacts on culture and then the culture impacts to some degree on sexuality. Power relations also are implicated.

I'm confused, are you saying that pornographic actors and actresses aren't consenting adults?

Does the pornography impact the culture or is the culture impacting the porn? It seems to me that there has always been a market for bizarre and distasteful material; I'm thinking as far back as the Marquis de Sade!

Kooli

Valmont wrote: »

Ironic, considering your research style involves throwing porn into google scholar and cherry picking abstracts that agree with your opinions.

You do realise that you actually asked me, directly and specifically, if there was any evidence to back up my own opinions? You actually asked for it, and I gave you exactly what you asked for!

And because I was expecting the response of 'well what does one study prove?' I deliberately ensured that both studies I quoted were meta-analyses, and I know you know what a meta-analysis is!

And as I said before, I'm not really interested in talking about a ban or prohibition or anything like that. It's too extreme, and too sensationalist. After all, you can be anti-abortion while being pro-choice, right? And I would love to see a society without alcohol, but wouldn't dream of encouraging prohibition. That's not a useful discussion, and seeing as no one here has said they want it banned, it's also a discussion that's not likely to go anywhere.


As this is the psychology forum, I'd love if we could discuss the issue of pornography from a psychological viewpoint. I've shown two studies that showed pornography has negative effects. I'm sure you could show me two more that show it doesn't. That's how research tends to work. So maybe we could leave aside this reliance on research and just discuss it as professionals.

Valmont

Your initial statement referred to pornography affecting "real" sexual relationships between men and women. The two studies you provided don't exactly support this overly general statement. Perhaps if you could explain what you exactly meant and how it relates to your two references? That said, having read up on the area, as of the late 80s there appeared a consensus of sorts that violent pornography is linked with aggression in particular. The second article here is very interesting and outlines the issues confronted through the research literature

The American Psychologist has had some very interesting articles on the psychological effects of pornography. Here are some older but nonetheless interesting articles I am working through at the moment:

Wilcox, B. L. (1987). Pornography, Social Science, and Politics: When Research and Ideology collide. American Psychologist, 42, 941-943.

Page, S. (1989). Misrepresentation of Pornography research: Psychology's role. American Psychologist, 579-580.

joseywhales

Kooli wrote: »

I did a search out of curiosity, in case anyone's interested:

Pornography and attitudes supporting violence against women: Revisiting the relationship in nonexperimental studies.
Hald, Gert Martin; Malamuth, Neil M.; Yuen, Carlin; Aggressive Behavior, Vol 36(1), Jan-Feb, 2010. pp. 14-20.
The current results showed an overall significant positive association between pornography use and attitudes supporting violence against women in nonexperimental studies. In addition, such attitudes were found to correlate significantly higher with the use of sexually violent pornography than with the use of nonviolent pornography, although the latter relationship was also found to be significant.

I know it's only one study, but it's a meta-analysis so I thought it was interesting.

I'm drunk and tired and not a psychologist but even I know that this is valuless completley because a correlation means nothing if you cannot determine causation.

And this discussion in general further enforces my belief that psychology is not a science. And I feel like it's using it's association with the word "science" to gain credibility. While really it's just entered a phase of rationalisation but is not to be defined as science. THis is not to enter science as something of great value but just my understanding of the definition of the term, which in truth is the foundation of all understanding, to define.

But hey you're not alone some people define maths as a science, that hurts me even more.

Regarding the actually issue, I have no reason to believe that porn harms society(assuming you desire a society with maximum co-exitant individual freedoom and protection) any more than any other persuit.

Kooli

joseywhales wrote: »

I'm drunk and tired and not a psychologist but even I know that this is valuless completley because a correlation means nothing if you cannot determine causation.

And this discussion in general further enforces my belief that psychology is not a science. And I feel like it's using it's association with the word "science" to gain credibility. While really it's just entered a phase of rationalisation but is not to be defined as science. THis is not to enter science as something of great value but just my understanding of the definition of the term, which in truth is the foundation of all understanding, to define.

But hey you're not alone some people define maths as a science, that hurts me even more.

Regarding the actually issue, I have no reason to believe that porn harms society(assuming you desire a society with maximum co-exitant individual freedoom and protection) any more than any other persuit.

I think that's a really interesting point about whether psychology is a science, and one that could do with a thread of its own if you'd be willing to start one? I'd definitely love to discuss it!

I actually did come across a couple of experimental studies (i.e. not just correlational) but I'm sure some reason would have been found to pick them apart which is why I went for meta-analyses, and honestly I wanted to get away from the insistence on every point being research-backed. A lot of us here are psychologists or psychotherapists with a wealth of knowledge and experience that could be brought to the topic.

Cinful

Dines new book, Pornland: How Porn Has Hijacked Our Sexuality, appears with a somewhat sensationalist title that is intended to enhance its marketability to a general, non-academic audience? Makes one wonder about the message conveyed by the medium (Marshall McLuhan, et al)?

A quick search of the literature suggested that it was inconclusive in terms of the hypothesis: (HR) As porn viewing increases, violence towards women increases. Often such literature was value laden, depending upon its source, be it for or against porn.

Although being anecdotal and lacking research rigor, I did visit several large erotic story porn sites (xnxx, etc.) for a term paper required for a sexuality class at my university. This had two categories of interest to this discussion: rape and non-consensual sex. Reading through several of them, it appeared that, more often than not, several characteristics began to emerge. Most of those persons raped where women, not men. The women tended to be in their teens or 20s, rather than younger or older. If the male rapist was Black, in more cases than not, the female victim was White. There were approximately as many solo rapists as gang rapist stories, but more often than not, a single female was the victim.

Most rape or non-consensual sex stories read seemed to exhibit a rather provocative theme: a behavioral transition for the (typically) female victim of rape during the story. At first she physically resisted or was otherwise against being raped, but then as it was occurring, either her body would respond positively to the rape (against her will), and/or she would change her view of her rapist to something less negative than at first (in some cases romantic).

Obviously these descriptive observations are not scientific, exhaustive, or rigorous, but it would be interesting to find a study that conducted a content analysis that was both rigorous and representative of the fictional rape story genre to see if there are in fact typical descriptions and a central theme for this type of erotic story porn? Such research could form a descriptive base for future explanatory studies that may address the earlier HR?

joseywhales wrote: »

I'm drunk and tired and not a psychologist but even I know that this is valuless completley because a correlation means nothing if you cannot determine causation.

Correlation is a necessary but insufficient condition for establishing causation; i.e., in addition to correlation, other conditions must also be met.

joseywhales wrote: »

And this discussion in general further enforces my belief that psychology is not a science.

Does this statement suggest that anecdotal observation should be used to support a "belief" that psychology is not a science; i.e., most comments on discussion boards are anecdotal? Is the word "belief" telling, rather than opinion per se?

joseywhales wrote: »

THis is not to enter science as something of great value but just my understanding of the definition of the term, which in truth is the foundation of all understanding, to define.

"Truth" is yet another telling word? Results from the use of the scientific method only suggests, as opposed to telling "truth?"