Soccer Forum Annual Review Thread

Dub13

Its that time of year again,as has now become custom in the off season the Soccer mods are looking for your input into how the forum is running.

This is your chance to have your say on how the forum is running and what if any changes you would like to see happen.Its your forum and we are here to listen to the users and take the forum in a direction that benefit's everybody.Not many other forums on boards do this but I think this process has helped the forum improve greatly over the years and I hope this year we continue this process,the soccer forum charter is a work in progress.

On certain issues it may necessary for us to ask that issue to be parked,of course after everybody has their say.Please don't see this as censorship,its not but we don't want to see this thread been held back and brought around in circles by 1 or 2 issues.We need it to be a open and frank discussion that moves and not a platform for any particular lobby group.

Finally,even if you are banned you can have your say,just PM any points you want to make to a soccer mod and we will post them up for you.We will leave this thread open for a week or so as once its locked we will have to digest it all and have a good chat about the content and then hopefully implement any changes for early August.

So the floor is open.....

~Rebel~

I think I just heard SOTS explode...

I'd like to take this opportunity to say, well done to all the mods here. It can't be an easy task and one I'm glad I'm not saddled with! I'm personally happy with the way things are run here. Probably not the feedback you wanted :pac: but positive feedback must be seen also...

3hn2givr7mx1sc

I think one of the mods would be better suited to not being a mod, tbh. Not gonna say their name, but they've been mentioned quite a few times in a bad way.

OPENROAD

Would like to see more banter being allowed particularly in match threads, I know the whole area of banter may be a grey area but think at the moment things are too strict. Also consistency of rules being implemented, i.e take the French match, if it is ok to abuse a player in that match and be allowed to have signatures calling Henry a cheat then it should be ok in other match threads and for other players.

Also just to say I have full respect for the mods and anyone willing to undertake the role, can't be easy imo.

Orizio

I would also like to partake in this lovefest and say mods in general are just fantastic.

Redzer7

+1 on the strict thing.
I can see where mods are coming from but we should be allowed to have a bit more banter. But give people an inch and they'll take a mile.

Would like to see a sticky for a football picture caption/photoshop thread.
I know it's a soccer forum and all that but the Robben the ball thread etc is just class .

Mr.Nice Guy

Overall I think the forum has been moderated very well since the last review and seems to me to have a good atmosphere 90% of the time, which is good going for a contentious sport like soccer. I think the mods have done well but I do have 2 suggestions.

First suggestion

One area I would suggest could do with improvement would be concerning the procedure for handing out bans. I know two regular users were banned quite recently by this totting up system of yellow cards. I didn't comment on it much at the time because I don't really know the ins and outs of it a great deal but my (perhaps naive) understanding is that it's 6 strikes and you're out for 6 months. I do think some good contributors have been lost because of this system so I'd advocate these arrangements. Some might already be in place so excuse my ignorance in such cases:

- At the issuing of the 5th card, ban the individual for a week and inform him/her (likely him :pac:) that they are on thin ice.

- During this week break, mods can review earlier cards and consult with each other as to whether some may warrant being downgraded (i.e. removed) when the week ban is up.

- Every 3 months if there is improvement in behaviour (i.e. no cards and no hassle) then mods can remove a card. It's at their discretion.

I think some system like this would keep the authority of the mods, but under a system that encourages good behaviour as well as discouraging bad behaviour.

Second suggestion

As well as that, and this is just a minor quibble tbh and one I suspect I might not have a great deal of support for, I do think the club threads - United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea etc - personally, I find them real eyesores and think they give a really ugly appearance to the board. Not only that but often non-club threads can slip off the page and these can be the most interesting imo.

For example on page 2 of the board as I write this, there are topics like 'World Cup in pictures', 'Spain the lowest scoring team to win a WC', 'Should there be a winter break', '50 questions not asked in the WC' etc. What I would tentatively call for lack of a better term, original soccer topics, and which I think would stand a better chance on page 1 without the club threads.

Now on page 1 in contrast, while we have some good threads (love the Robben one), by my count there are 9 club threads (United, Liverpool, Barcelona, Arsenal, Chelsea, Villa, Celtic, Everton, Cork). When August comes round these and more threads will be even more to the fore.

Is there a way to move them elsewhere? I'm not at all suggesting individual club forums for each, but how about something like say a 'soccer club forum', where all these threads can be placed into? Something with a format a bit like what the BBC have done here (although obviously with fewer teams):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/ArticleSearch?s_show=browsePage&s_sport=Football

Just a thought. I do like the banter in the United one and wouldn't want it scrapped or the other ones, but rather placed somewhere I could see it away from the main board.

As I say I don't expect to get a lot of support for that idea but I thought I'd throw it out there and let you guys mull over it.

Redzer7

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Second suggestion

As well as that, and this is just a minor quibble tbh and one I suspect I might not have a great deal of support for, I do think the club threads - United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea etc - personally, I find them real eyesores and think they give a really ugly appearance to the board. Not only that but often non-club threads can slip off the page and these can be the most interesting imo.

For example on page 2 of the board as I write this, there are topics like 'World Cup in pictures', 'Spain the lowest scoring team to win a WC', 'Should there be a winter break', '50 questions not asked in the WC' etc. What I would tentatively call for lack of a better term, original soccer topics, and which I think would stand a better chance on page 1 without the club threads.

Now on page 1 in contrast, while we have some good threads (love the Robben one), by my count there are 9 club threads (United, Liverpool, Barcelona, Arsenal, Chelsea, Villa, Celtic, Everton, Cork). When August comes round these and more threads will be even more to the fore.

Is there a way to move them elsewhere? I'm not at all suggesting individual club forums for each, but how about something like say a 'soccer club forum', where all these threads can be placed into? Something with a format a bit like what the BBC have done here (although obviously with fewer teams):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/ArticleSearch?s_show=browsePage&s_sport=Football

Just a thought. I do like the banter in the United one and wouldn't want it scrapped or the other ones, but rather placed somewhere I could see it away from the main board.

As I say I don't expect to get a lot of support for that idea but I thought I'd throw it out there and let you guys mull over it.

+100 would love to see this happen even a stickied sub forum or something?

OPENROAD

The six month ban for accumulation of yellow cards is far too long imo.

Love the sub-football forum "Football Club Forum" idea. well done.


Just realised this is called the soccer forum :pac:

What's the story with that? Been posting here for over five years and never noticed!

*These damn kids and their americanisms... grumble... grumble..."

Xavi6

OPENROAD wrote: »

The six month ban for accumulation of yellow cards is far too long imo.

Why?

If someone accumulates SIX infractions then they deserve time off. It's not like they haven't been given enough chances with the first five.

Redzer7

OPENROAD wrote: »

The six month ban for accumulation of yellow cards is far too long imo.

You on 5 yellow cards by any chance open road :P

Xavi6

Xavi6 wrote: »

Why?

If someone accumulates SIX infractions then they deserve time off. It's like they haven been given enough chances with the first five.

But the thought would be it's too much of a jump?

The week long ban merits some attention

I think it would be good be good to have a week ban after 3 yellows, 2 week long ban on your 4th, month long ban on your 5th, and THEN a 6 month ban on your sixth. Fair warning like.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

If your yellow card expires does that mean that it doesn't count as one of your 6?

6 months is a bit of bollox if ya ask me, tbh, a month would be long enough.

OPENROAD

Redzer7 wrote: »

You on 5 yellow cards by any chance open road :P

have none, I'm the Alan Smith/ Gary Lineker of boards

OPENROAD

Xavi6 wrote: »

Why?

If someone accumulates SIX infractions then they deserve time off. It's not like they haven't been given enough chances with the first five.

Sometimes the cards are for very minor infractions, I think a one month is long enough.

Xavi6

baz2009 wrote: »

If your yellow card expires does that mean that it doesn't count as one of your 6?

6 months is a bit of bollox if ya ask me, tbh, a month would be long enough.

So someone can run up six infractions, head off for a month then come back and do the same again.

Why are people asking for leniency here? These people have obviously disrupted the forum in some shape or form. Don't do the crime and all that.

There's enough hand holding that goes on and posters need to be accountable for breaching the charter. It's there for a reason.

Xavi, can you adress my point?

As for people disrupting the forum, fair enough, fcuk them out. However, we are passionate people about our subject, and some leniency must be shown.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

Xavi6 wrote: »

So someone can run up six infractions, head off for a month then come back and do the same again.

Why are people asking for leniency here? These people have obviously disrupted the forum in some shape or form. Don't do the crime and all that.

There's enough hand holding that goes on and posters need to be accountable for breaching the charter. It's there for a reason.

Disrupted the forum?
I'm sorry for bringing it up again, but SOTS disrupted the forum, one comment about a player being a cheat for diving(just an example) is not disrupting the forum, it's forgotten about on the next page of the thread.

flahavaj

Are the six infractions wiped clean at the start of a new season? Maybe its just me and the late hour but I can't see if/where thats clarified in the Charter. Like say if I've built up 4 last season: Do I start afresh at a predetermined point the following season.

Xavi6

Papa Smut wrote: »

Xavi, can you adress my point?

Sure

It has merits alright, though it is effectively increasing the amount of time someone spends away from the forum and everyone else looks to be trying to reduce that.

As for people disrupting the forum, fair enough, fcuk them out. However, we are passionate people about our subject, and some leniency must be shown.

And that's where an infraction review can come in before the six month ban. If it's open and shut then good luck.

Xavi6

baz2009 wrote: »

Disrupted the forum?
I'm sorry for bringing it up again, but SOTS disrupted the forum, one comment about a player being a cheat for diving(just an example) is not disrupting the forum, it's forgotten about on the next page of the thread.

Six infractions is disrupting the forum.

Where did I say one post was?

Xavi6

Xavi6 wrote: »

Sure

It has merits alright, though it is effectively increasing the amount of time someone spends away from the forum and everyone else looks to be trying to reduce that.

But it would work more as a deterrent than anything. You know you'll miss the place after a week/2 week/month ban. And if anyone does act the dick after this, they should get a 6 month ban

flahavaj wrote: »

Are the six infractions wied clean at the start of a new season? Maybe its just me and the late hour but I can't see if/where thats clarified in the Charter.

Personally, I don't think it should be. After all, it's not like the forum is only open August to May.

flahavaj

Papa Smut wrote: »

Personally, I don't think it should be. After all, it's not like the forum is only open August to May.

Doesn't that disadvantage a long term poster over time though? You could quite easily pick up an infraction for a very minor offece say every six months but not be at all a disruptive poster and eventually end up banned for 6 months?

Soccer forum Charter

Actually just read:

Soccer forum Charter wrote:

3. Those receiving a total of six yellow card infractions will be banned from the forum for the entire season (running Aug-July) or 6 months, which ever is longer.

That could be REALLY messy when it comes to world cups/euros!

flahavaj wrote: »

Doesn't that disadvantage a long term poster over time though? You could quite easily pick up an infraction for a very minor offece say every six months but not be at all a disruptive poster and eventually end up banned for 6 months?

flahavaj: I was under the impression that a yellow card gets expunged after 6 months.

Apparently not:

Soccer Forum Charter wrote:

7. Ban lengths for yellow card infractions are at the discretion of the moderator. Even where no ban occurs, the yellow card still counts.

I think this should be changed to: A yellow card infraction shall have a lifespan of 6 months, after which it shall not count towards your total count of yellow cards.

There really should be a written time limit on it. Something the mods are happy with. Even keeping it season to season, but "at the discretion of the moderator" is a little like, " At her majesty's pleasure" :P

K-9

I like the increasing system that Papa Smut suggested.

6 Months is long but as Xavi6 pointed out, it takes 6 yellow cards, so posters should be aware what gets a yellow by that stage! Maybe it is because there is no ban until the 6th, that posters don't take them seriously enough.

Anyway, no matter what system is chosen, there will be critics.

flahavaj

There is definitely room for improvement in the way the Charter explains this 6 yellow cards = a 6 month ban and the wording of it, as wel as some clarity on when such things expire etc. I've been posting regularly here for good bit now, but tbh I'd never heard about it until HS and Archie were banned.

Boskowski

So what's the story? Do expired cards count or not? This has been asked and not adressed.
Also would have to support some views expressed with regards to apparent disproportion between 'disruptive behaviour' (it's like back in school) and petty offences.

Daysha

I think the sub-forum for the club superthreads is a fantastic idea.

The only thing I was going to suggest was dealing with those serial thread killers. The people who jump at the chance at being the first to reply to a new thread with a "This doesn't deserve a thread of its own" or a "you have a club superthread, use it". Even when it has the ability of being a very interesting discussion people diss it or the poster himself before it even gets going.

I despise superthreads with a passion. I really do. I avoid them like the plague because I find them impossible to navigate. The last time I posted something in the Man United thread was regarding a certain player not playing to his best. I was quickly dismissed by two other posters because "that discussion had been done to death several pages back" Eh, seriously? Why should I be forced to go scroll through pages and pages of posts before making one of my own? As big as a United fan and soccer fan I am in general this one of the primary reasons why I'm nothing more than a serial lurker.

This is why I completely agree with Mr. Nice Guy. There are some fantastic threads in the SF but they are lost under a sea of "...Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours 2010/11". Let's put them into a sub-forum of their own and we can enjoy more of the threads that make the SF one of the best.

Daysha

On a side note, I'm also not a fan of the "mod warning #426, 683" etc in the thread title. No sane poster is going to specifically pick out one post out of thousands just to read a warning that may not even apply to them. It's just as easy for a mod to edit the warning into the OP but it makes it ten times easier for the rest of us to access them.

Why not say "mod note last edited "insert date here" in the title? That way when the warning or note is updated all people have to do is click on the thread and the most recent mod warning will be there waiting for them at the top of the page in the first post. I know most people have a tendency to click on "last page" instead but this mechanism means one extra click, not the 20+ needed for the warnings lost in a sea of superthread posts.

RasTa

-1 at the sub-forum idea. I don't think there is any need to create more forums and some threads might get lost in the process. There are 21 topics on the frontpage on my count which should be more then enough.

Oh and bring CHD, SOTS, Headshot and Archi back. New season and all that.

The Muppet

Something needs to happen with the super threads. I know its tough one because they have their advantages but I feel they can take from the forum and they can cause disjointed discussions.

For example on the night the news that Rafa was leaving broke it was posted in the Liverpool super thread as soon as things started to unfold. At that time a few users there were discussing other topics as well. What ensued was a jumbled up discussion one group discussing the Rafa situation and another disusing something entirely differently. This went on for hours.

Then Somone opened a new thread about the Rafa situation and we had the situation of a disjointed discussion with the same information and opinions being discussed in two separate threads at the same time and it was very difficult to follow.

I don't have a solution as I understand the reasons for the super threads , personally I preferred the forum before their existence.

I don't think they were ever intended to be the location for all discussion regarding the clubs, perhaps if there was some way to only havfe teh gossip rumours etc in them have separate thread's for the really serious big topics like the example I gave and have all discussion on that topic focused there. I have no idea how that could be worked though and suspect it would be impossible.

The other solution of going back to the single thread per topic.


Over all the place is well run, I did somewhat agree with Archies criticism in the recent feedback thread. I recieved only one infraction in the last year, which was overturned on appeal by a cmod as being unfair, at the time I felt this infraction was issued due to a personality clash rather than any rule breach. I also feel the team I support is factor.

Mr Alan

that's the way its meant to be as far as i know muppet, run of the mill stuff discussed in the superthread with serious stuff gettin its own thread.

stovelid

How about less back-slappy baiting of ex-users who can't defend themselves?

daithijjj

RasTa wrote: »

-1 at the sub-forum idea. I don't think there is any need to create more forums and some threads might get lost in the process. There are 21 topics on the frontpage on my count which should be more then enough.

Oh and bring CHD, SOTS, Headshot and Archi back. New season and all that.

-2 at the sub forum idea. How hard is it to look at page 2 in the current format?.

pickarooney

My suggestion is for sub-forums as follows:
- Premiership
- Other clubs
- World football
The latter could cover international football as well as non-specific football discussion and even fun, off-topic threads. The second forum would cover the Champions League, Championship, Serie A, Bundesliga, Ligue Un, La Liga, Eredivisie etc.

JimsAlterEgo

Mods by and large are doing a great job.

Needs to be a way of dealing with posters who are obviously on a wind up but are within the rules (XX16 for e.g.)

Cards should expire, pref after 3 months in current system. All cards should also be reviewed by another mod to avoid perceived bias. (not saying it exists)

Established posters should be treated with more leniency than new newbies

Should be a facility to ban posters from threads, maybe not technically but unofficially, would be useful for match threads and club threads.

Subforum for match threads as well as sub forum for club threads. (this may facilitate temporary bannings easier)

I know its a grey area but there should be some banter and not be black and white. Abuse of players and managers is an obvious example. e.g. on last minute goal - Fvck u Rooney you bastarb. Thats not abuse IMO but if reported would get a ban. Context shoudl be considered.

Warnings should be considered for frivoulous reporting also. (above example)

Ush1

Give yellow cards for people saying "trolling, etc.." in threads as that's back seat modding and not very interesting.

The Muppet

Mr Alan wrote: »

that's the way its meant to be as far as i know muppet, run of the mill stuff discussed in the superthread with serious stuff gettin its own thread.

It's not working that way Al.

Sometimes when new threads are started about clubs with superthreads someone will moan about it and point the op to the superthread.

Dub13

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

First suggestion

One area I would suggest could do with improvement would be concerning the procedure for handing out bans. I know two regular users were banned quite recently by this totting up system of yellow cards. I didn't comment on it much at the time because I don't really know the ins and outs of it a great deal but my (perhaps naive) understanding is that it's 6 strikes and you're out for 6 months. I do think some good contributors have been lost because of this system so I'd advocate these arrangements. Some might already be in place so excuse my ignorance in such cases:

- At the issuing of the 5th card, ban the individual for a week and inform him/her (likely him :pac:) that they are on thin ice.

- During this week break, mods can review earlier cards and consult with each other as to whether some may warrant being downgraded (i.e. removed) when the week ban is up.

- Every 3 months if there is improvement in behaviour (i.e. no cards and no hassle) then mods can remove a card. It's at their discretion.

I think some system like this would keep the authority of the mods, but under a system that encourages good behaviour as well as discouraging bad behaviour.

We have recently agreed to something very similar.At the moment its black and white and once you reach 6 you are gone.The soccer mods have agreed to..

1)tighten up on the warnings when the users get to 5 cards,this is what we aim for so it will become 'best practice'.

2)Have a automatic review when a user hits the 6 cards mark,this is recitation that a 6 month ban is a long one.So once a user hits the 6 cards all their cards will be reviewed by the mod team.In some cases we may as a gesture of good will be willing to downgrade a minor yellow if it mens a user staying on the forum.We don't know if this will happened to many users but if it does we hope its appreciated.We may not overturn any and if thats the case fine,but at least its a case of us accepting that a 6 month ban is long and we will take the time to ensure its appropriate.

We will look at your other suggestions and see if we can incorporate any of them into the new system.They are all very good suggestions.

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Second suggestion

As well as that, and this is just a minor quibble tbh and one I suspect I might not have a great deal of support for, I do think the club threads - United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea etc - personally, I find them real eyesores and think they give a really ugly appearance to the board. Not only that but often non-club threads can slip off the page and these can be the most interesting imo.

For example on page 2 of the board as I write this, there are topics like 'World Cup in pictures', 'Spain the lowest scoring team to win a WC', 'Should there be a winter break', '50 questions not asked in the WC' etc. What I would tentatively call for lack of a better term, original soccer topics, and which I think would stand a better chance on page 1 without the club threads.

Now on page 1 in contrast, while we have some good threads (love the Robben one), by my count there are 9 club threads (United, Liverpool, Barcelona, Arsenal, Chelsea, Villa, Celtic, Everton, Cork). When August comes round these and more threads will be even more to the fore.

Is there a way to move them elsewhere? I'm not at all suggesting individual club forums for each, but how about something like say a 'soccer club forum', where all these threads can be placed into? Something with a format a bit like what the BBC have done here (although obviously with fewer teams):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/606/ArticleSearch?s_show=browsePage&s_sport=Football

Just a thought. I do like the banter in the United one and wouldn't want it scrapped or the other ones, but rather placed somewhere I could see it away from the main board.

As I say I don't expect to get a lot of support for that idea but I thought I'd throw it out there and let you guys mull over it.

Its been well known on the forum that I am in favor of moving the super threads to there own forum as just like you say I feel it takes away from the forum as a whole.Last year we put it to a vote and it did not get the majority,I will try and dig the thread up and see what % the vote was.

I am personally going to stay away from lobbing for this one as it would seem like I am trying to push something the users don't want.But I do agree with you.

**edit**I found the thread,the vote was very close Would you like a Sub forum for the Superthreads..? **edit**

JimsAlterEgo

Dub13 wrote: »

Its been well known on the forum that I am in favor of moving the super threads to there own forum as just like you say I feel it takes away from the forum as a whole.Last year we put it to a vote and it did not get the majority,I will try and dig the thread up and see what % the vote was.

I am personally going to stay away from lobbing for this one as it would seem like I am trying to push something the users don't want.But I do agree with you.

were putting match threads in their own forum voted on?

Dub13

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

were putting match threads in their own forum voted on?

No,we maybe should have included that in the vote on the super threads.

Dub13

Boskowski wrote: »

So what's the story? Do expired cards count or not? This has been asked and not adressed.

Every July card counts are cleared and the users start again on zero.If this is not in the charter we will address it just to clear things up.So as Xavi said,Six infractions in one season is disrupting the forum.

K-9

stovelid wrote: »

How about less back-slappy baiting of ex-users who can't defend themselves?

True, I think the 6 yellow card rule should be discussed, but without mentioning specific posters. Makes it too personal.

K-9

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Should be a facility to ban posters from threads, maybe not technically but unofficially, would be useful for match threads and club threads.

Seen that in use in AH and it works well. Poster X do not post in this thread again or calm down or you will get banned.

JimsAlterEgo

K-9 wrote: »

Seen that in use in AH and it works well. Poster X do not post in this thread again or calm down or you will get banned.

would imagine its more workable in a club thread than a limited time match thread but IMO could nip a lot of issues in the bud.

Dub13

In the last year we have banned users from threads,it works well IMO.

JimsAlterEgo

Dub13 wrote: »

In the last year we have banned users from threads,it works well IMO.

Not public knowledege though is it? Aplogies if it is.

Boskowski

Dub13 wrote: »

Every July card counts are cleared and the users start again on zero.If this is not in the charter we will address it just to clear things up.So as Xavi said,Six infractions in one season is disrupting the forum.

Ye, def'ny need to clear it up cos even with your reply I still don't know what's going on. What's the difference between a yellow card and an expired yellow card then

Xavi6

Boskowski wrote: »

Ye, def'ny need to clear it up cos even with your reply I still don't know what's going on. What's the difference between a yellow card and an expired yellow card then

I thought it was pretty simple.

If you get a card during the 'Football Calendar' then it is active.

Once that calendar year is over it is expired.