Soccer Forum Annual Review Thread

Mr. Presentable

Jazzy wrote: »

there ya go.


and as for the spurs forum, the giant hypocrisy in the fact that there is one forum for one club and not for others. Dav have any plans to rectify this ?

As you may know, I am a believer that the bigger clubs should have their own sub forum, but taking a position where you want something taken away from a group of posters because you can't have the same stinks, in my opinion. Whether or not a Spurs forum exists has no bearing on the way the Soccer forum runs/is run.

I still hold that breaking it into smaller bits will make it easier to manage, but obviously I am in a minority in this so just have to accept things as they are.

LuckyLloyd

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Closing the Spurs forum would be ridiculous. It is its own vibrant community now.

Equally, using its existence as a reason to create other sub forums is also ridiculous. The forum was created within a different context, during a time when the soccer forum here was a very different place.

It really is a side issue, and I don't understand why people are so obsessed with it.

+1

I really don't see why people are so bitter about it. It is like children saying well if I cant have one they cant have one..... it has been there ages. Just let it be...

PHB

On the questions of superthreads and threads and match threads.

I think people need to remember what used to happen before these things were implemented.

No superthread at all meant the forum was massively full of threads on United and Liverpool, which would be only magnified now. Especially since the thread could easily be, United's pre-season game vs. Celtic, with 5 posts, and the same again. The superthread is a great hoover of smaller threads.

Then on the question of whether or not more seperate threads need to be discussed. I think it's been working really well personally. In the Liverpool superthread last season, the discussion about the team was able to continue (by in large) through the creation of a different thread on Benetiz and whether he should be fired. I remember one particular occassion where in the superthread people were discussing the merits of Lucas as a player, while in the Benetiz thread people were discussing the transfer history of Benetiz. If you merged these two topics, the thread would have become nightmare and discussion would be impossible, as the Benetiz issue would have dominated everything. Similar thing happened with United and the Financial situation.

The suggestion of relaxing the rules on match discussion in superthreads is incredibly dangerous imo. Aside from it messing up ongoing general discussion topics in the superthreads, it massively, massively leads to more infractions and bans. This is because, whether they should or not, and they shouldn't, people respond differently to posts in a superthread compared to a match thread. Critical posts of a player in a superthread will lead to way way more **** off, troll, idiot comments from the supporters of the team that the critical post is aimed at. Keeping that in the match thread stops, completely, critical posters, some of whom are trolls, going into the superthread after every single loss and taking shots at the team, since that has to be in the match thread. This stops an awful lot of trouble, which was getting really bad before we made the change.

Granted I'm biased since I helped set this system up, but I think that it's working pretty damm well. Personally, I'd like it enforced even stronger. Any posts whatsoever about a match in a superthread should be transferred to the match thread as much as humanly possible.

The Muppet

PHB wrote: »

No superthread at all meant the forum was massively full of threads on United and Liverpool, which would be only magnified now. Especially since the thread could easily be, United's pre-season game vs. Celtic, with 5 posts, and the same again. The superthread is a great hoover of smaller threads.

Then on the question of whether or not more seperate threads need to be discussed. I think it's been working really well personally. In the Liverpool superthread last season, the discussion about the team was able to continue (by in large) through the creation of a different thread on Benetiz and whether he should be fired. I remember one particular occassion where in the superthread people were discussing the merits of Lucas as a player, while in the Benetiz thread people were discussing the transfer history of Benetiz. If you merged these two topics, the thread would have become nightmare and discussion would be impossible, as the Benetiz issue would have dominated everything. Similar thing happened with United and the Financial situation.

I agree that when used as intended the current system could work fine. However it is interesting that the two examples you gave of it working properly were Threads that the general membership diidn't really wish to see discussed to any length and as such they were shifted for that reason .

When those dedicated threads were formed any discussion in the superthread of the subject they covered resulted in someone telling the poster to take it to teh dedicated thread. On more popular topics this didn't happen, Rafas dismissal being a perfect example. The discussion on that started in the Liverpool thread, then a new thread was formed but the discussion also continued in the Liverpool thread. What followed was a very difficult to followed discussion spread across different threads.

We have all witnessed people being berated for starting new threads on clubs with super threads, I wouldn'd be in favour of superthreads having their own forum because ownership of threads is already creeping in with some users being question about posting in threads of clubs they don't support. I could see this escalating if there were a dedidcated sub forum for club superthreads. as some one else said how much of a deal is it to go to page two or three to see whats being disccussed.

Something just stuck me on that point, could the default number of topics being displayed on the first page be increased like using smaller font etc if necessary.


http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=151

PHB

The Muppet wrote: »

I agree that when used as intended the current system could work fine. However it is interesting that the two examples you gave of it working properly were Threads that the general membership diidn't really wish to see discussed to any length and as such they were shifted for that reason .

When those dedicated threads were formed any discussion in the superthread of the subject they covered resulted in someone telling the poster to take it to teh dedicated thread. On more popular topics this didn't happen, Rafas dismissal being a perfect example. The discussion on that started in the Liverpool thread, then a new thread was formed but the discussion also continued in the Liverpool thread. What followed was a very difficult to followed discussion spread across different threads.

I think topics like Benetiz's dismissal initially are going to jump up all over the place, it's just such massive news. Ultimately it fundamentally intertwines between the the entire discussion of the super thread, no real way past that. It is the most fundamental thing about general strategy there is. However, the vast majority of the lead-up to the firing, the debate was effectively moved out of the superthread into the specific thread. This was incredibly useful in allowing football discussion to continue, and frankly if you wanted to talk about Benetiz in a forum with other supporters in it, you knew what you were getting yourself in for in that seperate thread.

I do agree with you to an extent that perhaps the mods could be stronger in their structural modding, in that they could be much sterner against off-topic discussion within a thread. I myself, back in the day, was always in favour of consistantly moving posts out of the match thread into the specific thread. People got very very annoyed though

Jazzy

I never said I want the spurs forum taken down, that would be stupid, but maybe it should be run by the soccer forum charter. the real kick in the nads is the freedom of expression they get and what we dont. think Im making that up? should ask keane=cock what he thinks about it

invinciblePRSTV

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Closing the Spurs forum would be ridiculous. It is its own vibrant community now.

Equally, using its existence as a reason to create other sub forums is also ridiculous. The forum was created within a different context, during a time when the soccer forum here was a very different place.

It really is a side issue, and I don't understand why people are so obsessed with it.

It's churlish to use such loaded terms describing people as ridiculous or obsessive because they demand seperate club forums, in fact it's the logical next step for the SF.

As you say the Spurs forum was created in different times but the SF has reached a critical mass in terms of users where i doubt a full separation of club threads into their own individual forums will impact on the amount of users, threads or 'quality' posting but will deliver a reduction in the amount of club only posters from the main SF, whom imo cause much of the friction between the various factions.

Separate club forums are required for several reasons:

1) Separate club forums would allow for greater in-depth discussion of particular topics, no one wants to see threads like 'who should Villa's next RB be' in the main SF.

2) a clear coterie of posters on the main club forums have difficulty comprehending alternate viewpoints wherever they are posted in the SF, all this troll business mentioned on this thread seems to stem directly from this, these folks can be accommodated in their own club forums freeing the SF for greater impartial high brow chit chat.

3) Spurs forum is a useful template for other club forums to follow, it's baffling as to why there is such hostility from the higher ups to the idea of extent the concept of club forums further, particularly when the club forums get more traffic on their own then many boards forums do.

SantryRed

If you want a separate club forum go join Red Café or whatever the Liverpool one is. Simple as.

Xavi6

My reasons against club forums -

1. How do you decide who gets a forum? Will the few hundred Liverpool fans get theirs but the handful of City are told no? If so why are treated differently? If both get on then you're removing a lot of fans and interaction from the main forum.

2. It will just turn boards into a bunch of individual circle jerks. Whereas before, people would pop into the City (as an example) thread if they see a wave of new posts on the first page and contribute, they won't be arsed heading to a seperate forum to interact. For clubs with a small number of fans you would lose a load of activity.

It's basically unnecessary segregation that is provided elsewhere if you want it.

The Muppet

Jazzy wrote: »

I never said I want the spurs forum taken down, that would be stupid, but maybe it should be run by the soccer forum charter. the real kick in the nads is the freedom of expression they get and what we dont. think Im making that up? should ask keane=cock what he thinks about it

It's got nothing to do with the general soccer forum, It's a supporters group they have more leeway due to that.

As for you arguing for freedom of expression sorry but I find that hypocritical in the extreme considering your stance to date in this thread..

astrofool

The Spurs forum should be made private, and put under the Soccer forum, and be subject to the same rules (enforcable by their mods, soccer forum mods should also get access, but only for spot checks, not for day2day modding, if they break the rules, they lose the forum).

Other teams should then be allowed private forums only, and not allow match threads, all match threads being in soccer, again, break the rules, and the forum gets closed.

I would still look at breaking int'l, LOI into their own forums, let them breathe amongst the PL superthreads.

ntlbell

SantryRed wrote: »

If you want a separate club forum go join Red Café or whatever the Liverpool one is. Simple as.

This much like DeVore saying

You want to discuss football, go to xyz, this is a quake board.

Want to talk spots on your willeh, go to a Dear Sally forum etc etc etc

Look what happened with the poker forum when they decided to just that f off somewhere else, every decent contributor, lost.

The aul the spurs forum was created in different times is complete and utter tripe, we're in different times now with a very large user base which can easily handle seperate club sub forums

Closing the spurs forum because other clubs don't get one is rediclous, but so is throwing out the same aul nonsense about why other club forums can't be created is as nonsensical.

put it to the users, let them decide.

d22ontour

Xavi6 wrote: »

2. It will just turn boards into a bunch of individual circle jerks.

.

It already is and has been for a long time tbh.

I thought before that separate forums might work and with strict guidelines they still could to a point, but alas that will never happen.A sub forum for super threads would be the next best thing as on any given day they take up over half the main page which dilutes any other thread to an extent.

PHB the thread you mentioned was renamed as a pisstake or something i presume then locked.You try to have a decent thread like the rafa one which had plenty of scope in it as it was a good topic but alas,no, pool fans didn't like that thread much, eh ?
There can only be so much discussion about a club topic outside of a super thread until the fans of said club deliberately get the thread closed.That isn't discussion though....
I would like mods to be stricter on anyone who calls someone a troll/to ignore a troll or who even changes the quote tags to ridicule someone who is perceived as one...
I know who's posts i don't take seriously, i don't really need anyone to tell me not to reply or to ignore.

Circle jerks? eh Xavi ? It's always been here too.

wandatowell

The forum is fine just the way it is IMO. I wouldnt mind a thread where we could all just chill out, chat a bit, post up funny soccer related stuff and take the piss/slag off each other over results etc,

K-9

wandatowell wrote: »

The forum is fine just the way it is IMO. I wouldnt mind a thread where we could all just chill out, chat a bit, post up funny soccer related stuff and take the piss/slag off each other over results etc,

+1

Just a bit of innocent slagging, which can ans has been done on here. Probably get analysed to death though.

Dub13

ntlbell wrote: »

This much like DeVore saying

You want to discuss football, go to xyz, this is a quake board.

Want to talk spots on your willeh, go to a Dear Sally forum etc etc etc

Look what happened with the poker forum when they decided to just that f off somewhere else, every decent contributor, lost.

The aul the spurs forum was created in different times is complete and utter tripe, we're in different times now with a very large user base which can easily handle seperate club sub forums

Closing the spurs forum because other clubs don't get one is rediclous, but so is throwing out the same aul nonsense about why other club forums can't be created is as nonsensical.

put it to the users, let them decide.

Its simple really,Boards Soccer forum is different because of the mix of fans we get all mingling.There are countless other sites offering a club only format,how many other sites are offering what we are..?We have issues yes of course we do and we are trying to work through them,but it would be utterly stupid if we changed what makes us different.

Your poker analogy is flawed IMO,the lads split for other reasons not the structure of the forum.They in fact took in the main the same structure to the new site.

Ush1

I would defo be against seperate club forums.

In fact, in the super threads, it's sorta seeping into that nearly, with non fans of the club who post something getting chastised by the "regulars".

I would just like a sticky at the top which linked to each of the super threads. Apart from that, I think it's running fine.

Leiva

I don't like to see people wagering their boards.ie/soccer forum access .

I am sure there are 1000's of Charities that would benifit from the banter bets made on the soccer forum.

How about a sticky that changes a charity each month , when a wager is bet then a poster(s) are directed to the sticky , to find out who will benifit this month from their wager .
The 2 waging (or loser) could also post pics of their payment to same said charity on the sticky .

This was recently done by 2 members during the WOY appointment on the Liverpool super thread , it was s nice touch which could be formalized a bit .

M.

L'prof

I'm not interested in a forum for every superthread, but what would interest me is a superthread forum, where all the superthreads would reside. You'd still see all the other superthreads when looking for your own and the soccer forum would contain everything else.

Personally, if a thread isn't on page one of the soccer forum, I'd rarely see it and have missed plenty of great threads because of this and the fact that the superthreads take up so much space!

Xavi6

L'prof wrote: »

I'm not interested in a forum for every superthread, but what would interest me is a superthread forum, where all the superthreads would reside. You'd still see all the other superthreads when looking for your own and the soccer forum would contain everything else.

Personally, if a thread isn't on page one of the soccer forum, I'd rarely see it and have missed plenty of great threads because of this and the fact that the superthreads take up so much space!

You could just click to page 2....

Xavi6

Xavi6 wrote: »

You could just click to page 2....

I was just gonna post that !

L'prof

Xavi6 wrote: »

You could just click to page 2....

Not a helpful response in any way really. I could click page 2, but I think you'd be surprised by the amount of people that just won't bother.

Xavi6

L'prof wrote: »

Not a helpful response in any way really. I could click page 2, but I think you'd be surprised by the amount of people that just won't bother.

It is a helpful response.

Instead of creating a new subforum, segretating teams, and generally ruining the good buzz there is, yourself and others could just go to the next page.

Laziness is not a valid reason for change.

Xavi6

Xavi6 wrote: »

Laziness is not a valid reason for change.

Actually, yes it is. History has shown that most change (in a product) has been brought about because of efficiency.
It's a natural evolution and I'm also one of those people that don't click on page 2. I give a quick cursory glance at page one, unless something catches my eye, I move on. The superthread subforum idea is a very nice way of tidying up things. Won't take anything anyway from the main forum as (I would hazard a guess here) but the majority of users, (yes, I know not all) would only be interested in their personal teams superthread. I care not for celtic/man u/liverpool/barcelona/chelsea/villa superthreads and would very rarely enter them.

Tbh, I can't see the problem with moving the superthreads at all

The Muppet

Xavi6 wrote: »

You could just click to page 2....

That's one solution but there may be another. Boards has already addressed this problem on their front page by increasing the number of posts listed on it. Perhaps they could do the same for the front page of the soccer forum . There may be a techinical reason for not doing this but it's worth investigating.

L'prof

Xavi6 wrote: »

It is a helpful response.

Instead of creating a new subforum, segretating teams, and generally ruining the good buzz there is, yourself and others could just go to the next page.

Laziness is not a valid reason for change.

I don't think I'd call it laziness to be honest, it's just a simple fact. The further away something is, the less likely people are to look for it and the superthreads have a big impact on that.

I think it would vastly improve the input in the other threads, which I think can only be a good thing. What exactly do you mean by "ruining the good buzz" anyway?

Thanx 4 The Fish

So are you now saying that those people who mainly use the superthreads then would have to move and go to a different place to contribute to the rest of the forum? That does not sound all that fair, just because you do not want to have to click to page 2 others have to navigate to a completely different forum. I would imagine more people use the superthreads than are unable to click on the 2 link on the first page.

I like that Muppets idea of making more posts visible on the front page as a solution that would adversely effect nobody.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

So are you now saying that those people who mainly use the superthreads then would have to move and go to a different place to contribute to the rest of the forum? That does not sound all that fair, just because you do not want to have to click to page 2 others have to navigate to a completely different forum. I would imagine more people use the superthreads than are unable to click on the 2 link on the first page.

There's always the subbed forum feature to negate that tbh.

L'prof

Papa Smut wrote: »

There's always the subbed forum feature to negate that tbh.

This is why I hate the superthreads, I subscribe to them all anyway. I'd like to visit the soccer forum to find threads I haven't seen.

L'prof

L'prof wrote: »

This is why I hate the superthreads, I subscribe to them all anyway. I'd like to visit the soccer forum to find threads I haven't seen.

I don't see what the problem is.

Click on Soccer and then click on whatever page you want to visit.

There's only 6 pages.

L'prof

I thought I already posed this

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

So are you now saying that those people who mainly use the superthreads then would have to move and go to a different place to contribute to the rest of the forum? That does not sound all that fair, just because you do not want to have to click to page 2 others have to navigate to a completely different forum. I would imagine more people use the superthreads than are unable to click on the 2 link on the first page.

Would they not be on the same level?

boards.ie > Sports > Soccer > Superthreads

boards.ie > Sports > Soccer > Insert generic title here

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

I like that Muppets idea of making more posts visible on the front page as a solution that would adversely effect nobody.

I think this idea should be implemented regardless.

homerjay2005

hmm, ive been away for over 2 years and wow, theres been alot of changes.

for me im only really interested in the united thread, but one thing stands out.
when i look at the front page, nothing pops out as being interesting. the superthreads kinda do kill alot of general talk i feel and make it inclusive.

for example, if city went out and signed Messi. chances are, it would just be hidden in the city thread. ive no interest in reading the city thread, i would feel dirty have a look. im sure the feeling is the same or almos the same for everybody.

so, posters are missing out on alot of what could be genuine chat, as its held in the one place.

and also, i think we need more boobies on here. lots of them:pac::pac: *

* i am of course only partly joking

L'prof

rarnes1 wrote: »

I don't see what the problem is.

Click on Soccer and then click on whatever page you want to visit.

There's only 6 pages.

They're a mess, at the moment they occupy 11/20 slots on the first page. If the superthreads were in a separate forum there'd probably be no need to check the second page at all.

SantryRed

Is there a way to invent a hide thread system for users?

I said this before, if people don't want the superthreads maybe they could click a button which would hide whichever threads they want hidden. Then as a result they'll only see the threads they want to on the front page.

L'prof

SantryRed wrote: »

Is there a way to invent a hide thread system for users?

I said this before, if people don't want the superthreads maybe they could click a button which would hide whichever threads they want hidden. Then as a result they'll only see the threads they want to on the front page.

That would probably be the ideal solution, but I can't see it being implemented. Three options maybe:

Show all threads
Only show Superthreads
Only show other threads

EDIT: Hang on, that system is already in place here. Could this be implemented??? Pretty please??? But the the ability to make your selection permanent for every time you visit the forum.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Papa Smut wrote: »

There's always the subbed forum feature to negate that tbh.

Do you think that setting a forum as subbed and having to navigate to and from there is easier than pressing 2 at the bottom of the page? Doubt it.

L'prof

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Do you think that setting a forum as subbed and having to navigate to and from there is easier than pressing 2 at the bottom of the page? Doubt it.

I do, I know others don't though. Any thread I have an interest in pops up in my usercp. I think this is a criminally underused feature!

5starpool

rarnes1 wrote: »

I don't see what the problem is.

Click on Soccer and then click on whatever page you want to visit.

There's only 6 pages.

Depends on your settings. I have 700+ pages.

PHB

I must say, while I've always been against any splitting of the forum, the forum has gotten to the stage where there are at least, at least, 6 or 7 superthreads which are very common, and there are plently more that are posted on fairly regularly. Because of this, even right now, there are 11 superthreads there.

As such, I think some sort of technical solution whereby superthreads are hiddens and not hidden would be great. It would allow you to see more unique threads. Whether a sub-forum is the right option I'm not sure, but i'd very much like to see something done in some way.

everdead.ie

I think the 6 month ban for picking up 6 yellows is too much I understand some people need to realise that they can't constantly do enough to get an infraction but not enough to get an outright ban I personnally I think a 1-3 month ban might be fairer. as otherwise we could loose some good contributers.

Just my opinion otherwise I think this place is very well run and level headed.

L'prof

everdead.ie wrote: »

I think the 6 month ban for picking up 6 yellows is too much I understand some people need to realise that they can't constantly do enough to get an infraction but not enough to get an outright ban I personnally I think a 1-3 month ban might be fairer. as otherwise we could loose some good contributers.

Just my opinion otherwise I think this place is very well run and level headed.

We shouldn't have to lose them though. If they can't stay under 6 infractions in a season (knowing full well that it will incur a ban) then they deserve it to be honest!

Xavi6

Papa Smut wrote: »

Actually, yes it is. History has shown that most change (in a product) has been brought about because of efficiency.
It's a natural evolution and I'm also one of those people that don't click on page 2. I give a quick cursory glance at page one, unless something catches my eye, I move on. The superthread subforum idea is a very nice way of tidying up things. Won't take anything anyway from the main forum as (I would hazard a guess here) but the majority of users, (yes, I know not all) would only be interested in their personal teams superthread. I care not for celtic/man u/liverpool/barcelona/chelsea/villa superthreads and would very rarely enter them.

Tbh, I can't see the problem with moving the superthreads at all

So you won't click to page 2 but you will click to another forum?

Where's the logic in that?

L'prof

Xavi6 wrote: »

So you won't click to page 2 but you will click to another forum?

Where's the logic in that?

You're repeating yourself now. What do you think of the other suggestion though?

Xavi6

Xavi6 wrote: »

So you won't click to page 2 but you will click to another forum?

Where's the logic in that?

Well, I would use the subbed forums feature so I can see it on the (my) main page.

Xavi6

L'prof wrote: »

You're repeating yourself now. What do you think of the other suggestion though?

Anything that keeps the forum in one place is fine by me.

pickarooney

I find it hilarious that the people who are saying 'just click to page two' are the same ones claiming that forcing users to make an extra click into the superthread forum is asking too much
You could always subscribe to the subforum.

I kind of like the idea of having prefixes like superthread, premiership, champs league, international... like in the site development or fifa/pro-evo forums.

GLaDOS

pickarooney wrote: »

I kind of like the idea of having prefixes like superthread, premiership, champs league, international... like in the site development or fifa/pro-evo forums.

Seems unnecessary for me, you can tell what a thread is about 99% of the time from the thread title.

K-9

So, a good few posters have said they would read and post on more threads, if there was a super thread sub forum. Surely that isn't a bad thing, regardless of how many clicks it takes? The match threads will still be there to generate traffic.

pickarooney

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Seems unnecessary for me, you can tell what a thread is about 99% of the time from the thread title.

Check the example a few posts up - prefixes allow you to filter and thereby hide superthreads, show only premiership threads etc. etc.

Mr.Nice Guy

Regarding the separate forum for club threads idea, I think those saying 'just click to page two' are missing the point entirely. Often the club threads suffocate original topics. I think it was PHB who said they sweep up club-related topics which he used as an argument for keeping them. I understand that view. However the flip side of this is that they also push aside original topics to the back pages meaning original topics often have a very limited shelf life on this forum.

Original topics are more likely to last a day or two tops on the soccer forum whereas the club threads will always be there clogging up the board's space. If people are content to use the club threads (as I like to do myself from time to time) then what's the problem putting them all on a different board where we can still access them? Then the main thread can have a greater number of original topics that won't be gobbled up by the club threads.

Saying 'just look to page 2, 3 etc' doesn't address the issue at all - it perpetuates it. The issue here to me is not about people being lazy to go to the other pages, rather it's why are these topics being pushed back in the first place? Answer - the club threads have regular users who post often and who, unwittingly I imagine, are bumping off the original topics.

It will be interesting to see when the season gets under way if the first page of the soccer forum will have itself inundated with club threads. Ironically, the people dead set against a separate forum for club threads are the ones who are inflicting this system, bit by bit, on the main soccer forum.