Soccer Forum Annual Review Thread

angel01

I don't post that often here since a mod told me off and all I was doing was just giving a bit of banter, too strict for me to be honest. Football banter is all part of the fun.

mike65

Xavi6 wrote: »

I thought it was pretty simple.

If you get a card during the 'Football Calendar' then it is active.

Once that calendar year is over it is expired.

If calander means season, then which season?

Dub13

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

Not public knowledege though is it? Aplogies if it is.

It does not happen much but when it does what I would do is post on the thread that User X is banned from that thread for say 24 hours,then also drop them a PM.

Xavi6

mike65 wrote: »

If calander means season, then which season?

Begins August, ends July

---

> Premiership calendar if you will

Dub13

mike65 wrote: »

If calander means season, then which season?

We have always operated by the EPL/Uefa season.We may need to put a date on when they get cleared,I am thinking maybe July 1st or the last day in July.

Mr. Presentable

I'd remove the report post button. If a post is problematic it should be apparent to the mod. Too many posters are hovering over fans of other clubs waiting for the chance to report them.

If I earned a permanent ban and this was upheld on appeal, then I should be permanently banned.

The yellow card system should be ongoing. Resetting it every July makes no sense, I can continue being an arse through the summer also. In fact our league season is a summer one. Put an expiry of 12 weeks on the card and apply the punishment for (number of cards) in the 12 months from receipt of the oldest unexpired card.

Give supporters of certain clubs their own sub-fora.

Witch hunters should be banned.

Dub13

nipplenuts wrote: »

I'd remove the report post button. If a post is problematic it should be apparent to the mod. Too many posters are hovering over fans of other clubs waiting for the chance to report them.

This would be fine if we were paid,do you know how many posts are made on this forum on a busy day.Its unrealistic to expect the mods to read every post on busy forums.

daithijjj

Xavi6 wrote: »

I thought it was pretty simple.

If you get a card during the 'Football Calendar' then it is active.

Once that calendar year is over it is expired.

I just have a question surrounding this.

I recieved an infraction on the 4th jan, a red card for breach of forum charter. Anyway, after dialogue with the moderator who infracted me my ban was lifted within the hour. Without going into too much detail, we reached an agreement that the reason i got infracted was not through maliciousness. It was more of a misunderstanding. My ban was lifted but the infraction stayed. The infraction says it had 2 weeks until expiry. It did indeed expire in 2 weeks as i can see it on my profile.

I guess i could have pm'd dub13, he infracted me ....delete if you wish.

I suppose my question here is, if it expired in 2 weeks, is that a clean slate after 2 weeks or would it carry over if i got another in the following months. Im just curious, it is my only infraction since i joined boards.

Mr. Presentable

Dub13 wrote: »

This would be fine if we were paid,do you know how many posts are made on this forum on a busy day.Its unrealistic to expect the mods to read every post on busy forums.

Yeah, I know. The trouble is thin-skinned people who'll report out of badness, And I believe that's pretty common.

Dub13

There seems to be some confusion about the infractions expiring,I will try and clear this up.

When you get a infraction the boards system will have a time limit on it,I think its 2 weeks.This expires but has nothing to do with the soccer forum.As has been pointed out all soccer forum infractions are for the current season.

So in short,site wide they expire.For the soccer forum they are for the current season.

Handsome Bob

I've no problem with the 6 yellows = 6 month ban policy. I don't think posters should have their hand held here, if you accumulate 6 yellows then I'm afraid you're going to get what's coming to you. I don't buy that posters don't take the policy seriously, it's as plain as day in the charter.

I mean look at it on an individual basis. If you get a yellow for verbally abusing a player/manager (inappropiate language), you know what you did was wrong and IF you have any common sense, you won't make the same mistake again. The same applies to personally attacking other posters (breach of peace). They should not need a week ban or a two week ban for all of this to sink in. If it's not in your nature to troll then you really should learn. To me, if someone gets 6 yellows it goes beyond making honest mistakes and suggests that you are only in this forum to get a rise out of other people. So in this regard a considerable time out is deserved.

I mean jesus lads, c'mon, 6 yellows in one specific forum...

daithijjj

The calender is july 1st to june 30th i pressume?

gandalf

Personally I believe infractions are a waste of time and cause more problems than they fix and ergo the whole yellow card system is too.

I think Papa Smut has a good idea with the rolling ban system. I'd tweak it a bit though. First ban is a week, second ban is 2 weeks, 3rd ban is one month and fourth ban is for the rest of the season. I think the fact the user gets banned more for each indiscretion should make it very clear to them they have to amend their ways. Ban count is reset at the start of the next season (the premiership would be the handiest). Also if these actions are taken I believe it is good practice to post in the thread concerned say X is banned for Y because of Z. It cuts out conspiracy theories about people being banned because they support certain teams.

I agree with some that banter is part of the lifeblood of supporting football but I realise that online something that you believe is funny in text alone could prove to be offensive to others.

I'm happy with the club superthreads instead of splitting them into a separate forum. I believe that would diminish from the forum. I certainly don't find them a hindrance to my lurking on the forum.

I think it is standard practice but a moderator who is being confronted or harassed by a user should not be the one that deals with this. It should be one of their co-mods or a Cmod. This removes again the argument that someone was banned because the mod was out to get them.

gandalf

nipplenuts wrote: »

Yeah, I know. The trouble is thin-skinned people who'll report out of badness, And I believe that's pretty common.

Yeah but that happens in every forum on boards. The ones that have no merit are never acted upon. The majority of reported posts are valid. You can spot the ones with "agendas" quite quickly.

redout

The people that are suggesting reducing the six month ban to one month are delusional in my opinion. I can speak from experience as I had a six month ban. One month is not so much a deterrent - I would say the vast majority could easily take a one month ban and wont come back any the wiser in all honesty. I viewed my 6 month ban as a form of rehab - I could either choose to ignore it and come back the same as before or else I could look at my mistakes, see what I was doing wrong and decide to try and rectify them.

I chose the latter and came back a better member in my opinion. Back on the forum about 9 months and in that time I have not picked up a single warning nor infraction - now compared to my style before the ban were the longest I went without picking one up was only two months that is a massive change to be honest. The difference is I usually think before I post now whereas before I just done it without considering the consequences. I took the forum and my membership for granted and ended up paying the price for that. Now after suffering the consequences of my actions I can appreciate the forum so much more and understand that posting here is a privilege and not something you can just constantly take the piss out of without considering the charter and other users.

There are times on here were I really want to write to another user and tell them exactly what I think of them and comments they made but I dont now fire off the first thing into my head - I have to try be calm, keep a level head and think about it first. This is a massive problem with users of this forum - no thinking before they act. If you cant do the time then dont do the crime - one month is not sufficient in my opinion. The easiest thing in the world is to not hit the submit button. Think first. That is my two cents.

Quazzie

Am I correct in assuming that the only infractions taken into account are ones given in SF and that infractions from AH or anywhere else don't count? So its 6 infractions based on breaches of the SF charter and given for posts in SF?

Dub13

nipplenuts wrote: »

Yeah, I know. The trouble is thin-skinned people who'll report out of badness, And I believe that's pretty common.

I agree it does happen,and yes it can be very common but the soccer mod team don't discipline users just because of a reported post.All a reported post does is bring our attention to something,a lot of times we look at it and then do nothing.

SantryRed

6 month ban should stay. Was a great idea and it'll deter people from doing things again which result in infractions.

invinciblePRSTV

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I've no problem with the 6 yellows = 6 month ban policy. I don't think posters should have their hand held here, if you accumulate 6 yellows then I'm afraid you're going to get what's coming to you. I don't buy that posters don't take the policy seriously, it's as plain as day in the charter.

I mean look at it on an individual basis. If you get a yellow for verbally abusing a player/manager (inappropiate language), you know what you did was wrong and IF you have any common sense, you won't make the same mistake again. The same applies to personally attacking other posters (breach of peace). If it's not in your nature to troll then you really should learn. To me, if someone gets 6 yellows it goes beyond making honest mistakes and suggests that you are only in this forum to get a rise out of other people. So in this regard a considerable time out is deserved.

I mean jesus lads, c'mon, 6 yellows in one specific forum...

C'mon though a little perspective please, there has just been another round of the usual us v them Feedback Soccer Forum threads and bans where small petty infractions awarded by nit picking mods have built up and large bans have been implemented, losing the forum some good posters in the process. Arbitrary bannings after picking up 6 yellows across the year will only lead to continued disquiet and the inevitable feedback epics when another decent poster is kicked out of the forum because of minor infractions.

Also i recall a vote taken last year in a poll organised by the SF mods where a plural majority of posters who voted expressed a wish that the SF mods adopt a far less strict approach to using disciplinary measures in the SF and to step back and use their common sense in any disputes instead of hiding behind the byzantine rules and regulations that dominate every aspect of user - mod interactions on this site, it needs to more like this and less like one poster fighting the rigid structures and personalities of the boards bureaucracy which a user has to fight through so they can clear their name.

All in all, banning good posters because of silly, disputable, yellows picked up months ago is an anachronism from the days when this forum was under the thumb of silly pedantic moderaters, slowly the SF forum has moved away from this us v them mentality but to paraphrase FF a lot has been done, but more there's a lot more to do.

Handsome Bob

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

C'mon though a little perspective please, there has just been another round of the usual us v them Feedback Soccer Forum threads and bans where small petty infractions awarded by nit picking mods have built up and large bans have been implemented, losing the forum some good posters in the process. Arbitrary bannings after picking up 6 yellows across the year will only lead to continued disquiet and the inevitable feedback epics when another decent poster is kicked out of the forum because of minor infractions.

All in all, banning good posters because of silly, disputable, yellows picked up months ago is a remnant from the days when this forum was under the thumb of silly pedantic moderaters, slowly the SF forum has moved away from this us v them mentality but to paraphrase FF a lot has been done, but more there's a lot more to do.

What are your examples of "silly, disputable" yellows?

Dub13

daithijjj wrote: »

The calender is july 1st to june 30th i pressume?

This is something we will have to be more clear on in the charter,there seems to be some confusion.My personal choice would be July 1st to be the reset date.

Quazzie wrote: »

Am I correct in assuming that the only infractions taken into account are ones given in SF and that infractions from AH or anywhere else don't count? So its 6 infractions based on breaches of the SF charter and given for posts in SF?

Yes only infractions accumulated in the soccer forum count.

invinciblePRSTV

LZ5by5 wrote: »

What are your examples of "silly, disputable" yellows?

Headshot getting a yellow for calling someone a lazy bum in jest.

PHB

I really hate it when people disappear from the forum. I think that it's terribly disappointing that a user who for 90% of their posts provide useful and interesting insight into football. However, I just don't understand how people who are reasonable so much of the time can get infracted 6 times. I've been infracted twice on this forum (by the same mod funnily enough) in about 6 years, once which was lifted, and once was for back seat modding.

All in all, I much prefer more posters on the forum, especially the longer term ones which I know rather and find their contribution interesting. But 6 infractions is a lot of infractions. 6 infractions is a ****load of infractions, and while people will focus on one or the other that they are injust, there were 5 others.

It's way more lenient than I would have been, and just so everyone is clear, the more lenient the mods are, the more work there is to do. The stricter they are, the easier it is to mod. It's in their interest to make it more strict, but they choose to make it lenient because they think its good for the forum.

I actually remember what the forum used to be like way back when, and I've seen it go through a lot of changes, and the only major problem I think that there is now is that there's so many users, it's getting difficult to follow

What I'd like is that more users to show better judgement when posting, ideally to think when posting. Ideally if they were only posting when they had something interesting to contribute that'd be ideal too, but I dont even do that so what can I expect Ultimately, if you've gotten 4 or 5 infractions, you should be smart enough to cop on to yourself. 6 infractions is an awful lot of infractions. I think the mods are doing a decent enough job all things considered.

gandalf

PHB wrote: »

Ultimately, if you've gotten 4 or 5 infractions, you should be smart enough to cop on to yourself. 6 infractions is an awful lot of infractions. I think the mods are doing a decent enough job all things considered.

The problem as I see it is they have gotten the infractions but 9 times out of 10 they may not have been banned or were banned for a maximum of a week. If they got banned for infraction 4 or 5 for a month for example they would have a taster of what a six month ban would be like and think before they posted?

Handsome Bob

invinciblePRSTV wrote: »

Headshot getting a yellow for calling someone a lazy bum in jest.

Fair enough, and I'm sure Headshot stated his case and it was heard, but I think that for the most part yellows are fairly given. There is no room for misunderstanding, like there might have been in Headshot's case.

Trolling deserves a more severe punishment than other rule breaks imo.

Especially the ones that do it day in day out as they are the people that make a complete mess of the superthreads.

If you recieve 3 yellows for trolling you recieve a 6 month ban.

redout

rarnes1 wrote: »

Trolling deserves a more severe punishment than other rule breaks imo.

Especially the ones that do it day in day out as they are the people that make a complete mess of the superthreads.

If you recieve 3 yellows for trolling you recieve a 6 month ban.

I would agree that people who troll and especially those that have a history of trolling on boards should be treated more severely.

JimsAlterEgo

redout wrote: »

I would agree that people who troll and especially those that have a history of trolling on boards should be treated more severely.

The mods should have more flexibility to deal with obvious trolls that keep within the rules but its still plainly obvious what they are up to.

redout

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

The mods should have more flexibility to deal with obvious trolls that keep within the rules but its still plainly obvious what they are up to.

There are trolls on here that are not well known to the majority of users.

Makes no difference whatsoever though - a troll is a troll and should be treated exactly the same even if many are not aware that they are.

Dub13

A contribution from Headshot sent to me via PM.

Headshot wrote:

I wasnt going be bothered with the feedback thing because its not going to do anything for me unfortunately but I would like to air a few things

calling someone a lazy bum and getting a yellow for it even thou with was in jest is idiotic, same goes for twat. The majoirty of the sf mods arent strict but there are some that are very strict.

going behind a fellow mods head to give an infraction is pathetic and should never be done. The mod dealt with the matter on thread and that should be the end of it.

The Muppet

rarnes1 wrote: »

Trolling deserves a more severe punishment than other rule breaks imo.

Especially the ones that do it day in day out as they are the people that make a complete mess of the superthreads.

If you recieve 3 yellows for trolling you recieve a 6 month ban.

How can anyone prove if a user is trolling? Users here tend to be accused of trolling if their opinions do not fit in with the majority view on certain issues, that is not trolling.

RasTa

The Muppet wrote: »

How can anyone prove if a user is trolling? Users here tend to be accused of trolling if their opinions do not fit in with the majority view on certain issues, that is not trolling.

Yeah but this is http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64772332&postcount=20084.

I think it's pretty obvious when someone is trolling.

That_Guy

I like MNG's idea of a seperate forum for club threads but will it be for all clubs or just the more popular club threads?

I don't mind looking at the threads on the first page to be honest but if there was a seperate forum for clubs I'd be 100% for it provided that every club thread would be stuck in there.

I think there could be a bit of a backlash and possible threads of "is my club not big or good enough to be included in the club thread sub forum?"

If the sub forum doesn't come in then I do like the cleaning up of club threads and starting afresh for the new season especially with the more popular club threads.

I think it'd be easier for users to locate pages easier instead of having to trawl back and quote posts etc especially if there's a ton of pages to be going through.

Apart from that I think the forum mods have done an exceptionally good job given the year that was in it. Henry's handball, Rafa's speculation and the amount of threads that came with it, John Terry and that whole fiasco amongst other things.

I saw people mentioning that maybe the six yellow card system is a bit harsh but to be fair you deserve to be banned for 6 months if you continue to act the eejit. It's a fair system and you've got 5 warnings and if you can't calm down then you probably shouldn't be here.

Football is a passionate sport and emotions do run high but you can be passionate and sensible at the same time.

It is difficult sometimes to not reply to what you may deem a stupid comment. When ourselves got relegated to the Championship it's hard to bite your tongue when people are coming into your clubs match thread and posting ridiculous comments. Tempers fly and emotions are always there but think before you post I guess would be the main thing.

Basing that on experience. Wanna try make it through one season without any infractions. Roll on.

The Muppet

Dub13 wrote: »

A contribution from Headshot sent to me via PM.
Originally Posted by Headshot

going behind a fellow mods head to give an infraction is pathetic and should never be done. The mod dealt with the matter on thread and that should be the end of it.

This is a very valid point, I was of the opinion that mods don't interfere with other mod's decisions without at least discussing it with them . Given my own experience as outlined earlier I feel there is a question to be answered in headshots case.

Le King

Modding in here in generally excellent. I am 100% in support of the separate club forum idea. Top idea that.

Banter is needed. The more we ban the regulars the worse this forum will get. There needs to be a system that is fair, currently in the last week it was exploited by a certain mod on two posters. That I don't agree with.

The Muppet

RasTa wrote: »

Yeah but this is http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=64772332&postcount=20084.

I think it's pretty obvious when someone is trolling.

I don't agree, I wouldn't have classed that as trolling either. TBH that type of comment is pretty common in exchanges between fans in real life. That sort of comment should be laughed off for what it was a harmless bit of banter.

redout

Osu wrote: »

Modding in here in generally excellent. I am 100% in support of the separate club forum idea. Top idea that.

Banter is needed. The more we ban the regulars the worse this forum will get. There needs to be a system that is fair, currently in the last week it was exploited by a certain mod on two posters. That I don't agree with.

you cant just say that we cant ban someone because they are a regular which is basically what you are saying.

Absolutely not.

gandalf

The Muppet wrote: »

I don't agree, I wouldn't have classed that as trolling either. TBH that type of comment is pretty common in exchanges between fans in real life. That sort of comment should be laughed off for what it was a harmless bit of banter.

Ah come on what is said as banter in real life is accompanied by body language, maybe a laugh your relationship with the person the banter is aimed at. All of this is missing from the forum. Its just the text of your statement and again what you think is a harmless piece of banter thrown out there for a laugh can be interpreted differently by others especially if they are not tuned into your sense of humour.

IITYWYBMAD

The Muppet wrote: »

I don't agree, I wouldn't have classed that as trolling either. TBH that type of comment is pretty common in exchanges between fans in real life. That sort of comment should be laughed off for what it was a harmless bit of banter.

It's a classic case of trolling i.e. Saying something semi-sensational, to get a reaction. What happens in RL, has no real bearing on it tbh.

The Muppet

When a user reports a post why do they not recieve notification if that report results in a mod action?

I think they should because if they have a valid complaint which breaches the charter (for instance a user contantly accusing another of trolling ) and see no action being taken it can give an impression of inaction/bias on the mods part.

The Volt

More consistent modding is required. Infractions are handed out for one thing and then let go for another of equal triviality.

Also, change the forum name to the Football Forum. We're not Yanks.

The Muppet

gandalf wrote: »

Ah come on what is said as banter in real life is accompanied by body language, maybe a laugh your relationship with the person the banter is aimed at. All of this is missing from the forum. Its just the text of your statement and again what you think is a harmless piece of banter thrown out there for a laugh can be interpreted differently by others especially if they are not tuned into your sense of humour.

Hi Gandalf

Granted that may be an issue with new users but the regulars here know each others online persona /characteristics well enought not to need body language etc to get the sentiment in each others posts.

SlickRic

i think it needs to be made clear, that from what i understand, the 'regulars' weren't banned merely for banter.

it's 6 infractions. 6!

as has been stated, that's a lot for one forum.

yes, it's not good when regulars are lost, especially ones who contribute substantially. but that's not always the fault of the mods.

every review things get a little more lenient, which has been good for the forum, but soon you've eventually got the 'give an inch, take a mile' scenario. there has to be a line drawn somewhere.

banter, i'm assuming for a lot of people, means calling players names in the heat of the moment and stuff like that. i would contend that this is an internet forum, not real life, you can voice your displeasure in a mature, considered manner at the end of the day. it's not like your words splurt out on a keyboard. you've to press enter before sending a post.

think before you enter, and everything will usually be fine.

we can get emotion across without using terms that breach the charter. it's not difficult.

flahavaj

Voltwad wrote: »

More consistent modding is required. Infractions are handed out for one thing and then let go for another of equal triviality.

Also, change the forum name to the Football Forum. We're not Yanks.

The sport that is discussed herein is not football. We are Irish.:pac:

meditraitor

The super threads are ridiculous, only a few people actually follow them or know what happening.

Maybe sub forums for the bigger clubs.

gandalf

The Muppet wrote: »

Hi Gandalf

Granted that may be an issue with new users but the regulars here know each others online persona /characteristics well enought not to need body language etc to get the sentiment in each others posts.

Yes but if you start to discriminate between different users because of their post count you open a whole new can of worms.

The online world is different to real life.

flahavaj

SlickRic wrote: »

i think it needs to be made clear, that from what i understand, the 'regulars' weren't banned merely for banter.

it's 6 infractions. 6!

as has been stated, that's a lot for one forum.

yes, it's not good when regulars are lost, especially ones who contribute substantially. but that's not always the fault of the mods.

every review things get a little more lenient, which has been good for the forum, but soon you've eventually got the 'give an inch, take a mile' scenario. there has to be a line drawn somewhere.

banter, i'm assuming for a lot of people, means calling players names in the heat of the moment and stuff like that. i would contend that this is an internet forum, not real life, you can voice your displeasure in a mature, considered manner at the end of the day. it's not like your words splurt out on a keyboard. you've to press enter before sending a post.

think before you enter, and everything will usually be fine.

we can get emotion across without using terms that breach the charter. it's not difficult.

I also think that as time has gone on the board (and its posters) is better behaved than it ever has been. Maybe its just me, but about a year ago it was far worse for trolling, general chaos and inter club (particularly united-Liverpool) rivalries getting dragged up in very thread.

Yes you get the odd super-troll that single handedly causes chaos in the place but in my experience trolls especially gimmick trolls have a limited shelf life and usually get bored or fall on their own swords. Usually they're actually enjoyable to have round the place as long as you don't take them too seriously and spot them fpr what they are. Without naming any names theres a few I for one miss.:pac:

mike65

flahavaj wrote: »

The sport that is discussed herein is not football.

Its football! :mad:

meditraitor, only a few follow them? You really think that?

The following have over 200 posts in the last Liverpool thread

Mr Alan 1,672 Spiritoftheseventies 1,392
Kess73 	1,327 SlickRic 	1,296
whatawaster 1,122 mike65 1,015
jesus_thats_gre 	741 rarnes1 729
BastardPrince 661 Karmafaerie 632
~Rebel~ 622 MementoMori 605
Dublin_Gunner 580 The Muppet 580
Boggles 	577 Fink Goddie 	560
noodler 	559 flahavaj 540
mayordenis 537 K-9 530
daithijjj 	527 Rosco1982 	522
LZ5by5 	470 missingtime 	449
PaulieC 	413 BumbleBee123 348
wobblyknees 322 Headshot 313
Dub13  307 spockety 	306
stumpypeeps 283 Sir Gallagher 	278
Bandit12 278 Tusky 277
Melion 	272 LuckyLloyd 	259
NekkidBibleMan 	258 joe123 	256
5starpool 239 Mental Mickey 	230
monkey9 224 5ForKeeps 	202
Eire-Dearg 200

The Volt

flahavaj wrote: »

The sport that is discussed herein is not football. We are Irish.:pac:

I hate the word soccer

The Muppet

gandalf wrote: »

Yes but if you start to discriminate between different users because of their post count you open a whole new can of worms.

The online world is different to real life.

I believe that happens already to a degree for various reasons, human nature being the primary one. A bit of common sense can help a lot in running the place. I'd allow the non abusive banter like Rasta's link tbh, The majority of users do no want a zero tolerance approach to banter.