Soccer Forum Annual Review Thread

The Muppet

gandalf wrote: »

You see those guys in the minority haven't figured out what being a football fan means. It means prolonged periods of being miserable and frustrated interrupted occasionally by moments of pure and utter joy

Unless they're a United supporter of course, then it means the complete opposite.;)

Jazzy

so, the over sensitive arguement is the only the one the mods have?
sweet, we will just let the casual trolling go on and let threads ramble on and on with little or no points being made but just random sniping and point scoring instead. im still glad i could be around for the beginning of this new tag team though even thought of a theme for them

gandalf

Jazzy wrote: »

so, the over sensitive arguement is the only the one the mods have?
sweet, we will just let the casual trolling go on and let threads ramble on and on with little or no points being made but just random sniping and point scoring instead. im still glad i could be around for the beginning of this new tag team though even thought of a theme for them

Yeah but whats casual trolling? Seriously can you define it?

As I said above to some any comment that criticises their team or players is trolling to others all sorts of abuse is banter. The obvious trolls can be taken out easily without any reaction because its clear they are trolling. The clever ones (if they are trolls at all) when dealt with end up having a multiple page thread in feedback with people calling the mods fascists.

SlickRic

Jazzy wrote: »

so, the over sensitive arguement is the only the one the mods have?

which mods said that was the only argument?

in certain situations people need to be more restrained in how they post for the good of the forum.

much in the same way, in certain situations people are over-sensitive when people are simply giving an opinion that is against the norm.

it's all being taken on board.

Ush1

gandalf wrote: »

Yeah but whats casual trolling? Seriously can you define it?

As I said above to some any comment that criticises their team or players is trolling to others all sorts of abuse is banter. The obvious trolls can be taken out easily without any reaction because its clear they are trolling. The clever ones (if they are trolls at all) when dealt with end up having a multiple page thread in feedback with people calling the mods fascists.

SOTS was amazing though in fairness.:)

pickarooney

This thread is a ****ing train wreck. 400 posts about how to deal with the insidious menace of someone posting something a bit negative about your favourite team. I despair of this place sometimes. At this rate everyone who ever posts anything remotely controversial will be horsed out and we'll be left with pages and pages of trainspotter/asperger threads of 'the best Chelsea lineup for the F.A. Cup quarter final'.

Honestly, let's cut through the ****e and get to the core of the problem with the soccer forum - there's simply not nearly enough interesting content. The mods, or at least a subsection of them, would be much better off promoting interesting discussion threads intead of spending hours mulling over whether 'Torres is a poo-poohead' deserves a three or a five week ban.

Jazzy

gandalf wrote: »

Yeah but whats casual trolling? Seriously can you define it?

As I said above to some any comment that criticises their team or players is trolling to others all sorts of abuse is banter. The obvious trolls can be taken out easily without any reaction because its clear they are trolling. The clever ones (if they are trolls at all) when dealt with end up having a multiple page thread in feedback with people calling the mods fascists.

yes I can. casual trolling = day to day grating of a certain set of posters over the course of months/years. its time wasting and point scoring to simply achieve a small mental 'victory' and that you have annoyed people that day.
what it leads to are pages and pages of threads going in circles with absolutely no point being made.
good posters like r*act*r, redspider and bannor leaving this forum because everytime they posted it was like p1ssing in the wind and any points they made were superseded with trolling and sniping.
it encourages new posters to troll and emulate their online heroes and therefore adding to the cycle.

thing is, an ex-mod of here says the same. posters that have been posting on boards for years have said the same. mods of other forums i talk to that read soccer say the same. posters i talk to in real life say the same. heck, one guy goes to me (messing around) "im glad xxxxx is back on the forum, he really knows how to wind up the liverpool fans" and that poster has been on boards over 10 years. oh and another (a quake player you will be happy to know gandalf) had only used the ignore function once in his 10 years of posting on boards, can you guess what kind of poster he put on that list?


but no. apparantly we are over sensitive

Ush1

pickarooney wrote: »

Honestly, let's cut through the ****e and get to the core of the problem with the soccer forum - there's simply not nearly enough interesting content. The mods, or at least a subsection of them, would be much better off promoting interesting discussion threads intead of spending hours mulling over whether 'Torres is a poo-poohead' deserves a three or a five week ban.

Not the job of the moderators surely to promote interesting discussion. That's down to us.

gandalf

pickarooney wrote: »

This thread is a ****ing train wreck. 400 posts about how to deal with the insidious menace of someone posting something a bit negative about your favourite team. I despair of this place sometimes. At this rate everyone who ever posts anything remotely controversial will be horsed out and we'll be left with pages and pages of trainspotter/asperger threads of 'the best Chelsea lineup for the F.A. Cup quarter final'.

Honestly, let's cut through the ****e and get to the core of the problem with the soccer forum - there's simply not nearly enough interesting content. The mods, or at least a subsection of them, would be much better off promoting interesting discussion threads intead of spending hours mulling over whether 'Torres is a poo-poohead' deserves a three or a five week ban.

But its not the mods jobs to promote interesting discussion? Its the users/members of the forum we decide the content and the direction of the forum discussions. There have been excellent discussions on here in the past and there have been threads of moronic absurdity as well. As someone said earlier what do you want an IQ test before people can post in the forum?

The mods are here to ensure the environment for discussion is open and that people do not side track it into personal abuse or to none related items. As I have said many times before moderators are janitors not all powerful overlords. They sweep up the mess that is left behind from time to time on the forum.

gandalf

Jazzy wrote: »

yes I can. casual trolling = day to day grating of a certain set of posters over the course of months/years. its time wasting and point scoring to simply achieve a small mental 'victory' and that you have annoyed people that day.
what it leads to are pages and pages of threads going in circles with absolutely no point being made.
good posters like r*act*r, redspider and bannor leaving this forum because everytime they posted it was like p1ssing in the wind and any points they made were superseded with trolling and sniping.
it encourages new posters to troll and emulate their online heroes and therefore adding to the cycle.

thing is, an ex-mod of here says the same. posters that have been posting on boards for years have said the same. mods of other forums i talk to that read soccer say the same. posters i talk to in real life say the same. heck, one guy goes to me (messing around) "im glad xxxxx is back on the forum, he really knows how to wind up the liverpool fans" and that poster has been on boards over 10 years. oh and another (a quake player you will be happy to know gandalf) had only used the ignore function once in his 10 years of posting on boards, can you guess what kind of poster he put on that list?


but no. apparantly we are over sensitive

Jazzy I do hear what you are saying and yes its a shame that some posters decide that the forum is a waste of their time. I am especially unhappy that redspider isn't posting any longer, the guy was head and shoulders above the majority of posters on here and despite the "War and Peace" length of some of his contributions I really enjoyed reading them.

The moderators are just janitors here, they are not editors they cannot choose to edit out posts (well unless they are extremely distasteful). They also cannot ban people who are posting within the rules but maybe outside the spirit of the forum.

TBH forums lose members all the time, or have some disappear for a while and come back. I assume you report posts that you think are trolling as well because even with the number of mods on the forum they cannot possibly read every post. Also did you lets the mods know about your conversation about the Liverpool fan wind up merchant?

ntlbell

gandalf wrote: »

Also did you lets the mods know about your conversation about the Liverpool fan wind up merchant?

I don't really understand this.

Some of the biggest "man u wind up merchants"

Are the very same people who are complaining about the trolls.

I feel like I'm on the truman show here.

Then talk of an ex mod's there's ex mods who trolled more than posters and the very same person is now head of the anti troll council..

WTF is happening

Jazzy

gandalf wrote: »

TBH forums lose members all the time, or have some disappear for a while and come back. I assume you report posts that you think are trolling as well because even with the number of mods on the forum they cannot possibly read every post. Also did you lets the mods know about your conversation about the Liverpool fan wind up merchant?

no i didnt let them know as it didnt seem relevant to tell them and at this stage, i dont think it would matter to them. Ive started reporting posts but the last time I brought a post to a mods attention that pointed out extremely obvious trolling it was ignored.
as far as I can see, the horse has bolted the gate and due to the fact that they didnt shut down the novelty trolls years ago they are hardly going to start now, even if it is to the benefit of the forum

gandalf

ntlbell wrote: »

I don't really understand this.

Some of the biggest "man u wind up merchants"

Are the very same people who are complaining about the trolls.

I feel like I'm on the truman show here.

Then talk of an ex mod's there's ex mods who trolled more than posters and the very same person is now head of the anti troll council..

WTF is happening

Search me man but I am signing off here cause all this talk of "casual trolls" , "one night stand trolls" or "no stings attached trolls" is giving me a headache

It seems this thread is going around in circles now.

Ok to recap from me. Yellow cards need to be augmented by escalating bans,
Superthreads good and keep up the good work mods.

astrofool

pickarooney wrote: »

This thread is a ****ing train wreck. 400 posts about how to deal with the insidious menace of someone posting something a bit negative about your favourite team. I despair of this place sometimes. At this rate everyone who ever posts anything remotely controversial will be horsed out and we'll be left with pages and pages of trainspotter/asperger threads of 'the best Chelsea lineup for the F.A. Cup quarter final'.

Honestly, let's cut through the ****e and get to the core of the problem with the soccer forum - there's simply not nearly enough interesting content. The mods, or at least a subsection of them, would be much better off promoting interesting discussion threads intead of spending hours mulling over whether 'Torres is a poo-poohead' deserves a three or a five week ban.

I said this a couple of pages ago.

There needs to be two threads, one on the moderation, one on the structure of the forum.

Possibly a third sticky that calling someone a lazy bum is an insta-ban.

On the stickies actually, most of them are hopelessly out of date.

The Muppet

Jazzy wrote: »

thing is, an ex-mod of here says the same. posters that have been posting on boards for years have said the same. mods of other forums i talk to that read soccer say the same. posters i talk to in real life say the same. heck, one guy goes to me (messing around) "im glad xxxxx is back on the forum, he really knows how to wind up the liverpool fans" and that poster has been on boards over 10 years. oh and another (a quake player you will be happy to know gandalf) had only used the ignore function once in his 10 years of posting on boards, can you guess what kind of poster he put on that list?


but no. apparantly we are over sensitive

Would that be the mod that was demodded for trolling the forum? If so he didn't mind disrupting threads with silly pictures and renaming threads that he didn't like until the admins copped on to his antics. Is that sort of stuff acceptable to you? I bet it wouldn't be if other users did it. TBH I wouldn't be using him as an example to support you views.


Tell him Thanks.;)

That's a joke BTW.

The Muppet

gandalf wrote: »

Search me man but I am signing off here cause all this talk of "casual trolls" , "one night stand trolls" or "no stings attached trolls" is giving me a headache

It seems this thread is going around in circles now.

Ok to recap from me. Yellow cards need to be augmented by escalating bans,
Superthreads good and keep up the good work mods.

More mods like yourself could help, have you recovered enough from your fist stint to consider a return ?:)

gandalf

The Muppet wrote: »

More mods like yourself could help, have you recovered enough from your fist stint to consider a return ?:)

Christ I wouldn't moderate Soccer again even if I got paid a decent wage to do it

(fist stint? Jaysus that makes it sound like I got violated!)

flahavaj

gandalf wrote: »

Christ I wouldn't moderate Soccer again even if I got paid a decent wage to do it

(fist stint? Jaysus that makes it sound like I got violated!)

I always said being a mod must be a pain in the hole, but I never realised this was what it involved.:pac:

The Muppet

flahavaj wrote: »

I always said being a mod must be a pain in the hole, but I never realised this was what it involved.:pac:

I though that was the reason you applied for the recent vacancy.

yahoo_moe

Apologies if I missed this already (skipped from page 7 or 8 to the end) but I think the "no match talk outside of match threads" thing needs to be more relaxed.

For a while, mentioning the previous weekend's match and its effects on the title race or whatever in a superthread would lead to a mod warning which is impractical - threads about clubs, competitions, etc. are necessarily going to involve discussion of games.

I'm all for match threads to keep all the "1-0 Torres" posts together but a bit of common sense once an hour or more has passed since full time would go a long way imo.

pickarooney

gandalf wrote: »

But its not the mods jobs to promote interesting discussion? Its the users/members of the forum we decide the content and the direction of the forum discussions.

Bollocks it's not. Mods are invariably chosen for their contribution to the forum, because they're seen as good representatives and because they can cope with pressure situations without losing their heads. If you're selecting the cream of the soccer forum just so they can spend their time giving out stupid cards and deleting rubbish it's a complete waste of resources.

A mod should lead by example and the best example one can give is creating and contributing to quality threads.

LuckyLloyd

The Muppet wrote: »

Would that be the mod that was demodded for trolling the forum? If so he didn't mind disrupting threads with silly pictures and renaming threads that he didn't like until the admins copped on to his antics. Is that sort of stuff acceptable to you? I bet it wouldn't be if other users did it. TBH I wouldn't be using him as an example to support you views.


Tell him Thanks.;)

That's a joke BTW.

Are my pictures more or less silly than pulling up quote-less articles from The People as "proof" of one thing or another?

No, don't answer that actually. Given the fact that I am your intellectual superior I don't actually care what you think.

LuckyLloyd

pickarooney wrote: »

Bollocks it's not. Mods are invariably chosen for their contribution to the forum, because they're seen as good representatives and because they can cope with pressure situations without losing their heads. If you're selecting the cream of the soccer forum just so they can spend their time giving out stupid cards and deleting rubbish it's a complete waste of resources.

A mod should lead by example and the best example one can give is creating and contributing to quality threads.

Agree 100%. This "mods are janitors" stuff is pure rubbish. If they can't take a lead in what type of forum it is and aim to actively improve the level of content then they are wasting their time (and everyone else's).

gandalf

pickarooney wrote: »

Bollocks it's not. Mods are invariably chosen for their contribution to the forum, because they're seen as good representatives and because they can cope with pressure situations without losing their heads. If you're selecting the cream of the soccer forum just so they can spend their time giving out stupid cards and deleting rubbish it's a complete waste of resources.

A mod should lead by example and the best example one can give is creating and contributing to quality threads.

IMHO that's rubbish, its all the users of the Soccer forums responsibility to ensure that. Mods are only a small subsection of the forum and if you are blaming them for the lack of quality as you perceive it then that's a cop out. If you are unhappy with the quality of topics in here then start to remediate that by attempting to fix it yourself. To blame the mods for this alone is lazy and quite frankly lacks imagination.

I know from experience in modding high traffic forums that when you become a mod on those forums your posting does drop as well. Part of it is because of the volume of interaction that goes on with moderation and part of it is because you tend to self censor your own posts because of the reaction they might get (you know the old your a mod you shouldn't say that).

The Muppet

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Are my pictures more or less silly than pulling up quote-less articles from The People as "proof" of one thing or another?

No, don't answer that actually. Given the fact that I am your intellectual superior I don't actually care what you think.

Intellectual snobbery for the world.

Apologies if my earlier post annoyed you, that was not my intention. I was pointing out the hypocracy of jazzy's "former mod" comment in trying to justify his complaint. It was nothing personal.

The Muppet

gandalf wrote: »

IMHO that's rubbish, its all the users of the Soccer forums responsibility to ensure that. Mods are only a small subsection of the forum and if you are blaming them for the lack of quality as you perceive it then that's a cop out. If you are unhappy with the quality of topics in here then start to remediate that by attempting to fix it yourself. To blame the mods for this alone is lazy and quite frankly lacks imagination.

I know from experience in modding high traffic forums that when you become a mod on those forums your posting does drop as well. Part of it is because of the volume of interaction that goes on with moderation and part of it is because you tend to self censor your own posts because of the reaction they might get (you know the old your a mod you shouldn't say that).

The problem with topics in the forum is that the majority of topics that have the perpensity to generate the most discussion are discussed in the super threads. The quality and participation in single topic suffers for that reason IMO.

gandalf

The Muppet wrote: »

The problem with topics in the forum is that the majority of topics that have the perpensity to generate the most discussion are discussed in the super threads. The quality and participation in single topic suffers for that reason IMO.

But you are forgetting why the superthreads were brought in. Complaints that threads on a limited number of teams were swamping the forum. For example if you take your beloved United as an example, because of the number of united fans that post on the Soccer Forum the whole front page could comprise of nothing but posts on United. The superthreads idea has dealt with that well and if there is a really big story about United then you can create a new thread about that because you can be guaranteed that a lot of us other team supporters will be interested in it.

The only other alternative is to split the forum into teams and that imho would diminish the forum as well.

ilovelamp2000

pickarooney wrote: »

Bollocks it's not. Mods are invariably chosen for their contribution to the forum, because they're seen as good representatives and because they can cope with pressure situations without losing their heads. If you're selecting the cream of the soccer forum just so they can spend their time giving out stupid cards and deleting rubbish it's a complete waste of resources.

A mod should lead by example and the best example one can give is creating and contributing to quality threads.

I don't agree.

The qualities that make someone a great contributor to a site are completely different to those that make someone a good mod. And certainly in my experience the best posters on a site often turn out to be the worst mods.

A good poster is generally opinionated, articulate and clever. Mods need to be impartial and generally a bit officious and dull. There are very few good posters who can transition to becoming a mod without losing whatever it was that made them a good poster.

pickarooney

gandalf wrote: »

IMHO that's rubbish, its all the users of the Soccer forums responsibility to ensure that. Mods are only a small subsection of the forum and if you are blaming them for the lack of quality as you perceive it then that's a cop out.

Small, but important. Unless you've just switched off Good Will Hunting the janitor comparison holds no water. With respect to cleaners everywhere, mods are supposed to command some sort of respect as a valued member of the forum so that when the time comes to make a tough decision other posters will be inclined to think 'harsh but fair' rather than 'biased, power-tripper'. IMHO making useful contributions will get you respect quicker than throwing about bans. Leading by example - it's not that complex an idea. If mods, who have been contributing positively for years and thousands of posts, are reduced to no more than editing posts and disciplinary red-tape, something is seriously wrong.

They should be managers, not ball-boys.

Edit: mods need to be dull? I'm sure they'll appreciate that.... Lloyd, Xavi, I hope you've regained some of your IQ points since leaving your posts

gandalf

pickarooney wrote: »

Small, but important. Unless you've just switched off Good Will Hunting the janitor comparison holds no water. With respect to cleaners everywhere, mods are supposed to command some sort of respect as a valued member of the forum so that when the time comes to make a tough decision other posters will be inclined to think 'harsh but fair' rather than 'biased, power-tripper'. IMHO making useful contributions will get you respect quicker than throwing about bans. Leading by example - it's not that complex an idea. If mods, who have been contributing positively for years and thousands of posts, are reduced to no more than editing posts and disciplinary red-tape, something is seriously wrong.

They should be managers, not ball-boys.

Just because someone is a moderator does not automatically make them a more valued or a more interesting contributor to a forum than anyone else on there.

What gets mods respect is creating an environment so the majority can make a useful contribution to the forum.

Are you seriously asking for the mods to spoon feed everyone "interesting" and "stimulating" topics? Do you honestly think that the "lower" ordinary users of the forum are not capable of this?

Should we have an IQ test for the moderators maybe. Or should they take pickarooney's football test with essays and if they get less than 70% they can't be a mod

ilovelamp2000

pickarooney wrote: »

Edit: mods need to be dull? I'm sure they'll appreciate that.... Lloyd, Xavi, I hope you've regained some of your IQ points since leaving your posts

Yeah - a bit bland in their opinions so as not to upset anyone. Not stupid.

pickarooney

gandalf wrote: »

Just because someone is a moderator does not automatically make them a more valued or a more interesting contributor to a forum than anyone else on there.

What gets mods respect is creating an environment so the majority can make a useful contribution to the forum.

Are you seriously asking for the mods to spoon feed everyone "interesting" and "stimulating" topics? Do you honestly think that the "lower" ordinary users of the forum are not capable of this?

Should we have an IQ test for the moderators maybe. Or should they take pickarooney's football test with essays and if they get less than 70% they can't be a mod

I actually started pre-typing your disingenuous, pishwater response for you, including the bit where you completely make up something and then challenge it, but deleted it as I thought that would be a little presumptuous and would drag this even further off topic.

How do you people think posters become moderators of the soccer forum?
Dull, uninspiring, uninteresting, of no real value, good with a mop - a shoo-in for the post.

OPENROAD

Iago wrote: »

He really doesn't to be honest.

What people seem to forget is that we don't get to read every single post made on the SF. There are threads that I never click into unless I'm sent a reported post to look at, even then I get directed to the post in question and unless I need to reference back and see context I may not read the rest of the thread.

We are very consistent in our modding regarding abuse, what isn't consistent is the reporting of abuse when it happens. If it isn't reported then there's a chance that none of us ever see it, and therefore no action is taken. It's not that we treat posters differently, it's that we can't see everything.

I know for you the Henry incident is the specific example you're talking about. I infracted and removed any abuse I saw. I don't think the word "cheat" is abuse, and there's no doubt that he cheated. I would mod the exact same way if it was Robbie Keane for Ireland, or Wayne Rooney for United who did the same thing. That, to my mind at least, is consistency of approach.

Thanks for reply and my intention is not to knock the mods in anyway and hope it is not taken as such, I think you all do a top job in at times in difficult circumstances, so just for clarification and again to use the Henry example, people had signatures which stated "Henry was a cheat" and they had these signatures for some time after, so I assume the use of such signatures is acceptable?

gandalf

pickarooney wrote: »

I actually started pre-typing your disingenuous, pishwater response for you, including the bit where you completely make up something and then challenge it, but deleted it as I thought that would be a little presumptuous and would drag this even further off topic.

How is it off topic? This thread is about the Annual Soccer forum review. You made a point saying you wanted the mods to up the content quality and I have countered saying its everyones responsibility. If you cannot even gratify me with a "pishwater response" because you feel this is going off topic then we really don't need to talk more.

Every one has the opportunity and the ability to post intelligently or not in this forum. If some choose to post tripe then its not the moderators fault when they do now is it.

How do you people think posters become moderators of the soccer forum?
Dull, uninspiring, uninteresting, of no real value, good with a mop - a shoo-in for the post.

They become moderators for a variety of reasons and yes one of those reasons would be because they were a good contributor to the forum. However a lot of users find that after they become a moderator of a forum their posting to that forum drops for various reasons that I have already outlined. I believe I read that from one of the newer soccer mods the other day in a thread but its late and I am about to hit the sack so I won't be looking for that post now. I may try to find it in the morning

Apologies btw if I rubbed you up the wrong way. I didn't mean for you to take my comments personally. I was trying a bit of humour which may have been a mistake at this hour of the evening

Thanx 4 The Fish

Wow, that is a read.

Answering to the overruling of a Xavi infraction
I do not feel I have to do this but I will as there seems to be a lot of concern over this and people who have no idea what they are on about going mad about it. I looked at a mail I received on my phone, it linked me to a post, I read it, I infracted. I did not look later on in the thread, I looked at the post that was reported. That Xavi acted differently was not brought to my attention and HS did not complain to me about it so I was completely unaware of the shitstorm that was a brewing after HS got his 7th infraction. (Yes you read that right, he had 7, the mods messed up and we are putting measures in place to make sure that this does not happen again.)

Serious mod question.

The Muppet wrote: »

Therfore such comments/reports need not be acted opon unless the target reports the post. Theres no extra work for anyone in that.

mike65 wrote: »

Have to agree with this, its one thing for a member to be offended, its quite another for a mod to take offence on their behalf. Some common sense and a concept of "natural justice" is required. If its not reported and is not willfully abusive leave it alone.

pickarooney wrote: »

How about a very simple guideline - if a poster does not report a post it's taken as read that he is not offended by the banter therein and nothing is done about it.

Just a quick one then. Are we to assume that the person is offended by it if they do report it? Can of worms a bit? So anonymous bad man calls you a silly billy, you report it, I have to assume that you are offended and infract. Maybe a more recent example, how about he calls you a lazy bum, if you reported that post then are we safe to assume that you were offended by that? If so is that a safe yellow and one that a mod should act on? Just making sure that this is what you are going for, I do not think that this would work, but it is certainly something that could be investigated.

My opinions

Super Threads, personally I am not a fan of them but I can see the purpose that they serve and it was one that the forum agreed, I do not think that they should be moved to a superthread forum not just because of lack of traffic, that means nothing to me really, I like to read the forum and see what other people think, does anyone remember Go Ahead Eagles though?

6 infractions = ban- I thought that the yellow = ban was a good idea and was one of the main advocates of it, but a lot of people or the noisiest of the user base, not sure complained about it and when there was a poll the forum asked for it to be removed. It was and in the main people behave themselves. We do ban users if they for example go over the top or get two yellows in a day but a single yellow will not always mean a ban now.

Trolling, we can see it going on and I hate it, I think it is a cancer on the forum but the problem with trolling is that at a low level it is very easy to defend it so while people want trolling dealt with, it is very easy for experienced trolls to defend themselves if they get a yellow or a ban and generally they are good at this bit of it too.

Mods being posters. Mods are generally picked because they are good contributors to the forum and we believe that they can do the job well, some of the issues we get though are that once someone becomes a mod, if they express an unpopular opinion then they get people whinging about them on feedback or helpdesk or whatnot. We have lost a number of very good mods to this which is a real shame and a bit of a damning indictment on how a few people treat those people who are only here to help out.

Jazzy

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Trolling, we can see it going on and I hate it, I think it is a cancer on the forum but the problem with trolling is that at a low level it is very easy to defend it so while people want trolling dealt with, it is very easy for experienced trolls to defend themselves if they get a yellow or a ban and generally they are good at this bit of it too.

so we are agreed that there are trolls on the forum that get away with trolling.

what of the spurs forum? has Dav looked into that yet?

Thanx 4 The Fish

Has somebody denied it? Also, this is just my opinion and may not represent the opinion of other mods (disclaimer++).

What of the spurs forum?

Jazzy

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Has somebody denied it? Also, this is just my opinion and may not represent the opinion of other mods (disclaimer++).

What of the spurs forum?

Iago wrote: »

sigh.......

and here we go again. At some point there will be a thread that actually doesn't go wildly off-topic along the lines of club allegiances.

There are many many hyper sensitive fans from every club on here. There are multiple posters from every club on here that in my view contribute little to the development and smooth running of the forum. this doesn't mean they're a troll.If somebody is obviously trolling then they are dealt with. Just because someone takes a contrary position to you that doesn't make them a troll.

Getting back to a point I made earlier going into an opposition match thread and posting "GET IN" when they concede a goal is all part of the game imo and should be taken as such. We're all bloody thinking it at the time whether it be the lifelong nemesis of your team, a bet you have, or just because you don't like the personalities of the team in question. I have no problem with anyone coming into a United thread and posting "Get In" "Delighted" "C'mon XXx" or whatever at any point, it's part and parcel of the game and maybe it's something we need to discuss further as part of the overall review.

there ya go.


and as for the spurs forum, the giant hypocrisy in the fact that there is one forum for one club and not for others. Dav have any plans to rectify this ?

Xavi6

I don't agree that it is a mods duty to instigate discussion. The role of a moderator IS to be a janitor, and skills (such as dispute resolution, a level head etc) are more important than an ability to talk about football.

Fortunately the present group of moderators are well capable of providing solid post and contributions while also having the key skills required by a moderator.

If there was one of the mod team who knew feck all about football but was always fair I'd have them over someone who knows their football but hands out infractions all over the shop.

There are forums with mods who don't participate too often in the general discussion but make sure things tick over and it works perfectly fine.

I guess some people don't appreciate the balance that the soccer mods have, and in the end some good folk get pissed off and jack it in.

Thanx 4 The Fish

But hang on, I posted my opinion and somebody else posted theirs, what is the issue? We are discussing how we make the forum better, if some people think that trolling is going on and the forum thinks that it isn't then perhaps those people have to re-assess what they think is trolling and if it is the other way then some people may have to re-assess what they feel is acceptable as banter. Either way the forum will decide and we will go from there.

As regards the Spurs forum, there is nothing that I think that the soccer mods can do about this, it is a separate forum but I am happy to take the feedback from the forum to Dav and see what we can do about this if indeed anything needs to be done.

Dub13

We as mods don't necessarily have to direct the forum as has been pointed out thats down to the users.I would agree with gandalf that once you start to mod a forum you find yourself posting less,well I do anyway as some of the more militant views I have on some issues would not look good coming from a mod.So I post elsewhere to 'let of steam'.

I have from time to time tired to push certain things as I think they build the community,for example I have been trying to get the Off Topic thread back to its forum statues for some time now.Some say it will never happen but I will keep on trying.

Other things i have tired was the The Great Soccer Forum Write Off & the short lived but fun while it lasted The Friday Quiz .

Cypher_sounds

Just wondering why would a Mod give you a Infraction in Private, is their a reason for this?

ROCKMAN

Quick question And I've seen it a couple of times since I've joined this forum ,What happens when its a mod that is doing the trolling or make a smart ass comment derailing a thread..






Ps Bump... Humour Thread anyone ?????See post 320

..

The Muppet

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Are my pictures more or less silly than pulling up quote-less articles from The People as "proof" of one thing or another?

I am of the opinion that we post links to articles to prove that the story exist's in the mainstream media and not to prove that the story is true. You appear to have a conflicting opinion.

gandalf wrote: »

But you are forgetting why the superthreads were brought in. Complaints that threads on a limited number of teams were swamping the forum. For example if you take your beloved United as an example, because of the number of united fans that post on the Soccer Forum the whole front page could comprise of nothing but posts on United. The superthreads idea has dealt with that well and if there is a really big story about United then you can create a new thread about that because you can be guaranteed that a lot of us other team supporters will be interested in it.

The only other alternative is to split the forum into teams and that imho would diminish the forum as well.

I agree it's a catch 22, The superthreads are not being used as they were intended. Very few topics regarding the clubs that have superthreads are discuss in individual threads and those that are are also discussed in the superthread leading to a fractured/duplicated discussion. Perhaps if the superthreads were renamed to "club rumour and gossip thread" and only the rumours and gossip were discussed in them and all serious topics were discussed in topic specific threads , (which I beleive was the initial purpose of the superthread) it would lead to a more interesting forum. This would probably lead to more work/hassle for the mods initally but would could be a solution to this problem.

Thanx 4 The Fish wrote: »

Wow, that is a read.
Serious mod question.

Just a quick one then. Are we to assume that the person is offended by it if they do report it? Can of worms a bit? So anonymous bad man calls you a silly billy, you report it, I have to assume that you are offended and infract. Maybe a more recent example, how about he calls you a lazy bum, if you reported that post then are we safe to assume that you were offended by that? If so is that a safe yellow and one that a mod should act on? Just making sure that this is what you are going for, I do not think that this would work, but it is certainly something that could be investigated.
.

I already accepted that I had not though through the suggestion properly and recognise that the idea is flawed.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66910728#post66910728

pickarooney

Dub13 wrote: »

Other things i have tired was the The Great Soccer Forum Write Off & the short lived but fun while it lasted The Friday Quiz .

I couldn't remember who had started those, but they were great ideas. More of this kind of thing would be great I think.

The Muppet wrote:

I already accepted that I had not though through the suggestion properly and recognise that the idea is flawed.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...8#post66910728

Same goes for me. Although I suggested it, I understand the major problem with it now.

gandalf

The Muppet wrote: »

I agree it's a catch 22, The superthreads are not being used as they were intended. Very few topics regarding the clubs that have superthreads are discuss in individual threads and those that are are also discussed in the superthread leading to a fractured/duplicated discussion. Perhaps if the superthreads were renamed to "club rumour and gossip thread" and only the rumours and gossip were discussed in them and all serious topics were discussed in topic specific threads , (which I beleive was the initial purpose of the superthread) it would lead to a more interesting forum. This would probably lead to more work/hassle for the mods initally but would could be a solution to this problem.

The way I see superthreads is that they are for general news and banter and on the whole (well in the Arsenal one) that's exactly whats in there. I only glimpse at the other teams superthreads now and then so it may be different in those but I don't think so.

But when a large story breaks or a more serious discussion is needed a new thread springs up. For example the on going Cesc tapping up from Barcelona, that warrants and has a separate thread.

Jazzy wrote: »

and as for the spurs forum, the giant hypocrisy in the fact that there is one forum for one club and not for others. Dav have any plans to rectify this ?

The Spurs Supporters Forum has been on boards for years. If I knew about it happening when I modded I would have objected as I don't believe in splitting the forum up into different team sub forums we would diminish the forum greatly and despite the friction I actually enjoy reading about other football teams apart from Arsenal and Ireland (and France as well because of the in-laws).

The problem as I see it is that the forum has existed for years. Are you suggesting Jazzy that it be shut down? Is that really what you want? Are you so petty that because your team don't have a separate forum your going to deny others who have an established forum that works theirs. I am assuming that the forum was set up originally to allow the spurs supporters space to arrange trips to visit White Heart Lane etc.

Personally as an Arsenal fan I welcome anything that keeps Spurs supporters out of the general soccer forum (thats a joke btw in case people take offense!).

Again as it is a Hosted forum it is totally separate to the Soccer Forum and works under a totally different moderator scheme with different moderator boards only the Boards admins can make a call on it. I'd suggest you contact Dav about it directly if it is of such concern to you.

So much so staying out of this thread eh LOL

Iago

OPENROAD wrote: »

Thanks for reply and my intention is not to knock the mods in anyway and hope it is not taken as such, I think you all do a top job in at times in difficult circumstances, so just for clarification and again to use the Henry example, people had signatures which stated "Henry was a cheat" and they had these signatures for some time after, so I assume the use of such signatures is acceptable?

Being honest, we as a team will have to think about this. I'll raise it in the mods forum and get back to you and let you know. I'm sure there were people reported for those signatures at the time but I honestly can't remember if I dealt with any of them or what action (if any) was taken.

We may include something on this in the updated charter, but we'll need to discuss it first.

Jazzy wrote: »

there ya go.


and as for the spurs forum, the giant hypocrisy in the fact that there is one forum for one club and not for others. Dav have any plans to rectify this ?

Just to clarify, I wasn't saying that there was no problem with posters just posting for a reaction. I was making the point that just because Poster A thinks Poster B is trolling that doesn't make it in the case in Scenario 1.

That doesn't mean Poster B wasn't trolling in Scenarios 2-7, but every reported post is dealt with on it's own merits and with regard to context given.

It has already been well expressed in this thread that somebody saying "Manager X is crap" may be at the limit of their ability to articulate themselves rather than posting for a reaction. It may also be that they just want to be part of the conversation and are throwing out something they heard someone else say.

to give a rl example

I once interviewed a guy for a role in my team. One of the questions I asked was around his opinion of the range of services we provide, his answer was "they're generally good, but XXX is pretty bad to be honest"

Now I was in agreement with that, but I was curious as to his reasoning and asked him why he thought that. He made some fairly waffly points for a few minutes but when I pressed him on specifically what was wrong and what would he change his answer was "being honest, it was actually my sister who told me that it was bad. She didn't really get into what she didn't like about it"

If there are people who are willing to throw out soundbytes with no back-up in something as important as a job interview, then there'll be a much higher number willing to do so on an internet forum. These are not trolls, they're just not very well informed or not very articulate.




With regards to the Spurs forum, that has been highlighted with Darragh/Dav and the decisions around the forum rest up at that level rather than ours. I would hope that we can input into the decision making but it won't be up to us for the final call.

flahavaj

It shouldn't be up to mods to have to stimulate discussion on a forum as well as have tyo clean up all the mess that people make. Surely thats for users to do? Jesus where does it stop, some people seem to need their mickeys held just to take a p*ss.

I have to laugh at some of the people whinging the loudest on this thread tbh.

The Muppet

Could the people complaing about the existance of the spurs supporters club forum explain what their issue is. It's a hosted foruim and has nothing to do with this forum so I just don't see any reason for complaint.

Are people in the Music forum complaing about the music related hosted fora? It's all a little petty if you ask me.

LuckyLloyd

Closing the Spurs forum would be ridiculous. It is its own vibrant community now.

Equally, using its existence as a reason to create other sub forums is also ridiculous. The forum was created within a different context, during a time when the soccer forum here was a very different place.

It really is a side issue, and I don't understand why people are so obsessed with it.