Debt Collector, after 4 years of nothing

Rabidlamb

Back in 2006 my wife had a barney with Woodchester Finance (GE Capital) over a final balloon payment she claims was not in the initial agreement.

Anyway, she sent them a cheque for the final payment minus the balloon extras but wrote across it "only to be accepted as full & final payment".
So they cashed it & we heard no more, we were happy cause we'd kept a copy of the cheque.
About 6 weeks ago she gets a call from a debt collector looking for the outstanding payment.

We got a copy of her ICB report where the outstanding amount from 4 years ago was listed.
The debt collector has since rang back twice & I've informed her to say nothing, not to even admit to the debt.
I guess they don't have our new address as we've received nothing in writing.

A 4 year unpaid debt would surely have been written off by a lender.
Is this a new revenue stream that some of them are looking into.
Have a go, can't hurt to try, rustle up one out of a hundred.

We still have a copy of that cheque.

jor el

Rabidlamb wrote: »

We got a copy of her ICB report where the outstanding amount from 4 years ago was listed.

Did you get this recently, or 4 years ago? Is it still listed as a defaulted loan now?

Never deal with debt collectors. They are completely unlicensed, un-regulated, and can do and say anything they want (including threats of physical violence in some cases) but have no legal powers at all.

If you owe money, you should pay it, but only deal with the original creditor.

dudara

Moved to Banking & Insurance & Pensions

Rabidlamb

jor el wrote: »

Did you get this recently, or 4 years ago? Is it still listed as a defaulted loan now?

We got the report in Feb of 2010 showing the outstanding amount marked with an "X" as unpaid in June 2006.

jor el wrote: »

If you owe money, you should pay it, but only deal with the original creditor.

She rang GE back in 2006 asking them to produce a copy of the signed loan agreement to prove the requirement of an end balloon payment.
They never got back in touch after that so we thought they'd either lost it or messed up by cashing the marked cheque.

seamus

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Anyway, she sent them a cheque for the final payment minus the balloon extras but wrote across it "only to be accepted as full & final payment".

Nice try, but I doubt that cashing the cheque could be legally construed as agreement of the terms.

A 4 year unpaid debt would surely have been written off by a lender.

Nope, debts are very rarely written off by lenders.

Ignore the debt collection company. If they continue to ring, contact the Gardai and make a complaint about harrassment. You can usually get your service provider to block their number too on the back of this.

Contact GE Money and find out what the state of play is. Unless you received a closing statement from them when you sent in the cheque, it's likely that the account was never closed. Ask them again to produce a copy of the signed loan agreement but don't just leave it if you don't hear from them. Push them for a copy, and if they don't have it, insist that they close the account.

Rabidlamb

seamus wrote: »

Nice try, but I doubt that cashing the cheque could be legally construed as agreement of the terms.
Nope, debts are very rarely written off by lenders.

Ignore the debt collection company. If they continue to ring, contact the Gardai and make a complaint about harrassment. You can usually get your service provider to block their number too on the back of this.

Contact GE Money and find out what the state of play is. Unless you received a closing statement from them when you sent in the cheque, it's likely that the account was never closed. Ask them again to produce a copy of the signed loan agreement but don't just leave it if you don't hear from them. Push them for a copy, and if they don't have it, insist that they close the account.

To open up that line we would have to provide them with our new address.
They could just as easily pass this onto the debt collectors who we'll have calling around in full view of the twitching curtains.
GE have obviously given up on it if they've passed it onto the debt collectors.
In 11 months from now the missed payment will have passed over 5 the years.

I believe this is one circumstance where trying to do the right thing will only lead to more trouble.

Toots

Rabidlamb wrote: »

To open up that line we would have to provide them with our new address.
They could just as easily pass this onto the debt collectors who we'll have calling around in full view of the twitching curtains.
GE have obviously given up on it if they've passed it onto the debt collectors.
In 11 months from now the missed payment will have passed over 5 the years.

I believe this is one circumstance where trying to do the right thing will only lead to more trouble.

The five years start from the day the debt is settled in full, not from the day you stop paying. So unless the loan is cleared you'll remain on the ICB.

Seamus is giving good advice here, I'd suggest you follow it. Have you got a copy of the original loan agreement? Maybe get in touch with the Regulator and see what his advice would be.

chris85

statute of limitations is six years so nothing can really do about that. the five years that has passed is not relevant for the matter.

GE money will probably not engage with you as its with one of their third party agencies which they are entitled to pass to them if the balance is owing.

No harm in dealing with the debt collector as most are fine. Ask them for the agreement and if they start getting unresonable then put in a formal complaint with GE but otherwise the debt collections agency are enititled to contact you if their client are saying the money is owing. ask the agency to investigate the legitimacy of the claim that you owe the money.

Also fair enough if the cheque was with letter advising to cash cheque only if in full and final settlement but unless agreed settlement by the bank then its up for debate whether this stands. There have been cases more specifically in the UK that have sided in the banks favour in these cases.

the_syco

If you don't want them to get your address, open a post box with your local post office, and give that address as the address to send the copy of the loan agreement to.

Rabidlamb

I've got the ICB report in hand now.

It shows the final 3 payments, months 22, 23 & 24 as 1, 2 & W.
The numbers are meant to mean months in arrears & the W = element written off.
I aslo note her ICB score is blank. is that good or bad ?.
Site FAQ wasn't much help.

seamus

Yep, W means written off, which means that they have probably written the debt off and handed it over to the debt collection company. This usually means that you no longer owe GE money anything. And since you have no contract with the debt collection agency, then you owe them nothing either.

However, for peace of mind, contact GE money and query the state of the account - tell them you're querying it because a debt collector has been onto you, but you were under the impression that the account was closed. GE will confirm whether it's been closed or not. If the account has been closed, then you're home free. You have no obligations to the debt collection company.

If you don't want them to get your address, open a post box with your local post office, and give that address as the address to send the copy of the loan agreement to.

This may not be possible as (afaik) financial regulations require that the bank has an up-to-date home address for every customer. Money laundering, innit?

Make a note of every time the debt collection company contacts you, the method they used to contact you, the name of the person calling (and the name of their company) and if it's a phone call, make a note of the number they called you from. Tell them not to contact you any more. If they don't respond to this request twice (i.e. they call a third time after being told to F-off twice), then make a complaint to the Gardai.

Blank ICB score - dunno. Maybe you didn't ask for a score, but according to the ICB website, if you history records a "W" anywhere, then you automatically get a score of 50, which is the lowest possible.

This W will "expire" 5 years after the date it appears and she'll get a normal credit score then.

daithimac

seamus wrote: »

Yep, W means written off, which means that they have probably written the debt off and handed it over to the debt collection company. This usually means that you no longer owe GE money anything. And since you have no contract with the debt collection agency, then you owe them nothing either.

However, for peace of mind, contact GE money and query the state of the account - tell them you're querying it because a debt collector has been onto you, but you were under the impression that the account was closed. GE will confirm whether it's been closed or not. If the account has been closed, then you're home free. You have no obligations to the debt collection company.

This may not be possible as (afaik) financial regulations require that the bank has an up-to-date home address for every customer. Money laundering, innit?

Make a note of every time the debt collection company contacts you, the method they used to contact you, the name of the person calling (and the name of their company) and if it's a phone call, make a note of the number they called you from. Tell them not to contact you any more. If they don't respond to this request twice (i.e. they call a third time after being told to F-off twice), then make a complaint to the Gardai.

Blank ICB score - dunno. Maybe you didn't ask for a score, but according to the ICB website, if you history records a "W" anywhere, then you automatically get a score of 50, which is the lowest possible.

This W will "expire" 5 years after the date it appears and she'll get a normal credit score then.

That's not how it works regarding debt collectors. The bank would not have written your debt off as in it's still on there books as an amount owed to them. What they would have done is refered your account to an external agent who tend to be able to make house calls and pay closer attention to the account than the bank but by no means has the debt been written off.

You say that you don't think that you owe the balloon payment. Out of interest is it a large amount. I would ring up and ask for a full statement of the account and a copy of the agreement. If they start trying to put pressure on you on the phone tell them your going to mabs for help and they should send you out what your looking for without any further hassell.

If the balloon payment is on the agreement and the statement stacks up then you Have two options. 1. Bury your head in the sand and welch on your debt or 2. Deal with it.

Option one would basically mean that your credit history will be in the toilet for the forseeable future but you do not make any further payments on the loan. Option two means that the thing is finally taken care of once and faro all. Also there is some chance of them taking action to clear your credit rating if you go down the path ofnsaying that this is some sort of misunderstanding and you would have liked to have had all the information sooner but since you have it how are willing to deal with it. I wouldn't expect that they would clear it before then account is cleared in full but it should be a damn sight quicker than if you ignore it altogether.

On another note. If the agreement and the statement together do not stack up there position that a balloon payment is owed and they have no further documentation to support the claim then my next stop would be to a solicitor to ensure that the debt is removed from there records and your icb rating is cleared immediately.

If they have made an error and stated that you owe money when you don't then it is a serious matter and they should be more than willing to do at least that and issue you an apology.

But basically get a copy of the agreement and full statement of the account before you do anything else because either you still owe them money or they have made a he'll of a mistake.

nlgbbbblth

you, as the customer, should have your own copy of the agreement. Can you get hold of that?

chris85

The copy of the agreement will be no problem for the debt collection company to get. GE are known to be bad for engaging directly with customers with these queries so get this dealt with once and for all with the agency. After all if its not sorted it will be marked as bad credit.

Rabidlamb

daithimac wrote: »

You say that you don't think that you owe the balloon payment. Out of interest is it a large amount.

Was the equivalent of 3 normal monthly payments of €220 each.
The marked cheque was made out for €220 so €440 is left outstanding.

you, as the customer, should have your own copy of the agreement. Can you get hold of that?

We can't find our copy, believe we threw it out when we moved house.

The copy of the agreement will be no problem for the debt collection company to get. GE are known to be bad for engaging directly with customers with these queries so get this dealt with once and for all with the agency. After all if its not sorted it will be marked as bad credit.

We got another call from the debt collectors yesterday.
They actually listened to our complaint & said they would check with GE.
Seemed decent enough but still not getting a postal address.

seamus

daithimac wrote: »

That's not how it works regarding debt collectors. The bank would not have written your debt off as in it's still on there books as an amount owed to them. What they would have done is refered your account to an external agent who tend to be able to make house calls and pay closer attention to the account than the bank but by no means has the debt been written off.

It depends on the matter. I wouldn't have thought they'd write it off either, but a "W" on the ICB report doesn't lie.

Debt collection can go either way - if it's a large debt, the collectors get a % of the debt for recovering it. For smaller debts though sometimes the debt collector actually buys the debt off the bank, so the bank recovers a certain amount of the debt, and the debt collector makes a tidy profit if he can recover the whole debt.

chris85

seamus wrote: »

It depends on the matter. I wouldn't have thought they'd write it off either, but a "W" on the ICB report doesn't lie.

Debt collection can go either way - if it's a large debt, the collectors get a % of the debt for recovering it. For smaller debts though sometimes the debt collector actually buys the debt off the bank, so the bank recovers a certain amount of the debt, and the debt collector makes a tidy profit if he can recover the whole debt.

all debt passed onto a debt collector is written off on the banks books. Its still owing just marked as a bad debt or write off. Its more an accounting procedure to be honest.