Firenze 2010

heffsarmy

Dermo thats another good long run you done last week, your starting too peak nicely. I would'nt be too bothered about the total weekly mileage, less is more at this stage, the sessions are what counts, don't be afraid too take a rest day. As taper approaches most people think that one more session or long run is what they need, rest is the most important. When I look back at the Dublin marathon 3 weeks out my ITB left leg was giving me trouble, I could'nt do planned sessions. Then 2 weeks out I got the flu, did'nt run for a week, then the last week had too take it easy. Too be honest I did'nt have alot off confidence going into the marathon, but I did feel strong and rested on the day and things came good on the day. Another thing helped me alot was the carbo depletion and carbo loading, I done a full on carbo depletion but I carbed up very well, muffins were never out off sight. Here is a good articles on carb loading.

http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/factsheets/competition_and_training2/carbohydrate_loading

dermCu

Mon 1st Nov: 6 @ 7:16 Feeling pretty good after the hard effort on Sunday. No real DOMS. In fact I had to reign in my pace on a few occasions.

Tue 2nd Nov: am 6 @ 7:10 Cruising along. My plan was to do another 6 in the pm but during the day I started to get a nasty sore throat so I canned the run. I didn't want to give it a chance to get worse.

Wed 3rd Nov: 13.6 @ 6:45
3 wu, 8 x 1 mile with 1 min rec, 1.8 c/d

5:54, 5:49, 5:58, 5:56, 5:59, 6:04, 6:00, 6:12

Throat still sore but not as bad as yesterday. It was a tough call whether I should run or not. I really want to get the last few sessions out of the way but on the other hand I didn't want to drive my immune system into the ground when its already weakened. So I did what any self-respecting fool would do and ran the session anyway. I could see that it was pretty windy when I was driving home and I toyed with the idea of pushing it out to Thursday but screw it, I just wanted it done. I ran through all the permutations in my head but I couldn't come up with a plan to keep me out of the wind for a mile. I was just going to have to suck it up and accept that some of the miles would drift outside 6 m/m pace. Run based on effort rather than pace was my plan. The wind just got worse and worse. There were a few gusts on the last two miles that almost stopped me in my tracks. I'm happy enough with the effort despite the times getting worse.

I'd normally extend that session out with a few c/d miles to 16 or 17 but when I was recovering after the last rep my alarm bells started to go off. I've just run a hard session, I've a sore throat, I'm drenched with sweat, out in the wind and its about to start raining....tell me again why its a good idea to run 3 more slow miles?? Work done, I'm heading home.

heffsarmy wrote: »

Dermo thats another good long run you done last week, your starting too peak nicely. I would'nt be too bothered about the total weekly mileage, less is more at this stage, the sessions are what counts, don't be afraid too take a rest day. As taper approaches most people think that one more session or long run is what they need, rest is the most important. When I look back at the Dublin marathon 3 weeks out my ITB left leg was giving me trouble, I could'nt do planned sessions. Then 2 weeks out I got the flu, did'nt run for a week, then the last week had too take it easy. Too be honest I did'nt have alot off confidence going into the marathon, but I did feel strong and rested on the day and things came good on the day. Another thing helped me alot was the carbo depletion and carbo loading, I done a full on carbo depletion but I carbed up very well, muffins were never out off sight. Here is a good articles on carb loading.

http://www.ausport.gov.au/ais/nutrition/factsheets/competition_and_training2/carbohydrate_loading

Cheers Heff, some good info there.
I couldnt bring myself to skipping a session but as you can see above I've already bought into the less is more thinking!
I've never done the depletion part before. I'm thinking about having a go. Few questions for you if you dont mind:
How did you find it during the depletion?
How many days did you cut out carbs?
What was your typical diet for a depletion day?

heffsarmy

dermCu wrote: »

How did you find it during the depletion?
How many days did you cut out carbs?
What was your typical diet for a depletion day?

The plan was to do it for 3 days, I started the carb depletion on the tuesday, first day was easy, but wednesday was a nightmare, and thursday I was like the living dead. Then the 3 days before the marathon, I ate every carb I could put my hand on literally, sports drinks, cakes, pasta, rice, veg all the good stuff for a runner. I followed the atkins induction diet for the 3 days as its basically has very little carbs. It does allow for some vegtables but they have a low carb content, but in small amounts. In the morning I had either a fry up, or a bacon omelete with cheese. Lunch I had some peri peri chicken with a spinach, tomato, onion. Got the wife to make some quiche without the pastry, this had peppers onions cheese, ate this for dinner and lunch too with a small spinach salad. I snacked on half an avacado or celery with cream cheese. I also made some tacos or a variant of it with chicken and used salad leaves instead of a wrap. I only drank water for the 3 days also, it was hard to stay away from the coffee. Here is a list of foods you can eat,

http://www.atkins.com/Program/Phase1/WhatYouCanEatinthisPhase.aspx

Here is a site with a few low carb recipies,

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=125868

I pity the poor ****ers having to live on diets like this, I would rather be fat.
During the 3 days on depletion, I ran tues 5miles with, wed 4miles, thurs 3miles. Then during the carb load, Fri Rest, Sat 3miles with 1 mile MP, Sun 3miles with 1mile MP. Maybe a 2 day depletion starting on the wed would have done the job, but I will use this as part of any marathon in the future, as I felt I had plenty off energy right too the line.

misty floyd

and eh.........how was the aul toilet visits? constipated or skuttery or normal?:D I've got to ask.

heffsarmy

I would class it as scuttery to normal ....Misty how are things since the Dublin marathon, are u back training. Are u running the intermediate cross country?

misty floyd

heffsarmy wrote: »

I would class it as scuttery to normal ....Misty how are things since the Dublin marathon, are u back training. Are u running the intermediate cross country?

running very easy, enjoying it but the body isn't right yet. Might do it but I'll be crap. What about yourself?

sorry for the sh!t talk DermCu.

dermCu

Fire away Misty, you've got to ask the important questions

Good to see you back running, that clip of you finishing Dublin was great. That's the way to finish a marathon.

misty floyd

dermCu wrote: »

Good to see you back running, that clip of you finishing Dublin was great. That's the way to finish a marathon.

ha ha a little OTT but I couldn't help it. Feck it, it was great.
Good luck with the last couple of weeks. You must be bursting with confidence (ignoring the sore throat) after that 24m last weekend. Brilliant stuff to lead into the Taper. Whats the plan for this weekend?

dermCu

Cheers, to be honest I'm just focusing on getting through the last few sessions without getting sick or injured. I'll take it easy tomorrow, about 5, and then if I feel fresh enough I'll have a bash at one last big long run. Around 20 with 15 at about 6:20 if I can. Looking forward to it and dreading it at the same time!

asimonov

Good luck on that run tomorrow, after last weeks long run it should be grand for you. I did that tempo yesterday and held the pace ok. I'm carrying a sore knee from it today though :eek: but hopefully stretching, ice and anti-inflamms will take care of it.

dermCu

Thur 4th Nov: 6 @ 7:10 Bit busy at work so no chance to get out at lunch. Feeling pretty good, I would have been happy to go on for a bit longer but decided to stick to the recovery plan.

Fri 5th Nov: am 6 @ 7:01, pm 8.7 @ 6:48 Struggled really badly to drag myself out of bed for the am run. Was pretty much sleepwalking for the whole 6 miles. Felt great for the pm run. It was pissing down so I kept things moving along at a reasonable clip.

Sat 6th Nov: 0 - Had planned to run but time got away from me. Didn't get an opportunity to run until after 6 so just scrapped it. It keeps with the 14 day cycle that I seem to have fallen into.

Sun 7th Nov 19 @ 6:23

3 w/u, 15 @ 6:12 avg, 1 c/d

6:12, 6:20, 6:12, 6:09, 6:20, 6:12, 6:15, 6:16, 6:06, 6:20, 6:09, 6:14, 6:12, 6:02, 6:10

Did the 15 on a 2.5 mile loop. The loop doesn't have anything you'd call a proper hill but it does have a few drags so the pace varies a little bit. Pretty tired at the end. I could roll out the usual comments - i don't think i could maintain that for another 11, bla, bla, bla same things I always think and say at this point.
I think I'll start off at 6:20's and see how that feels. If I can pick it up great if I can't I just try to hold on as long as I can.


Asimonov: That's awesome running, I'd love to have one of those under my belt. It blows away any tempo runs I've done in this cycle. If you don't mind I might try copying it for the next marathon build up. You'll be a tough one to keep up with. I hope the knee is ok, just do whatever you have to do to look after it over the next few days - take no risks on it.

asimonov

that's a great run derm, 6:20's should be no bother to you and i've no doubt you'll be able to push the pace later.

My knee is being a little bothersome but i reckon it will come good over the next day or so. Take care.

dermCu

Mon 8th Nov: 6 @ 7:10 Wet and windy. Forecast not looking good for this week.

Tue 9th Nov: am 8.7 @ 6:52, pm 6 @ 7:32 Moving along well on the am run, didn't really realise the pace until near the end. Made sure to keep the pm run slow to save a little something for a bigger session on Wed.

Wed 10th Nov: 16 @ 6:55 inc 2 x 3 with 3:30 rec
5:54 & 5:59

I had originally pencilled this in for a 3 x 3 but I settled for 2. Its hard to explain but I just didn't feel that it was right to do another one. Felt I would have been moving into hero mode to get it done. Its a pity, there was a break in the weather and last night was dead calm. Looking back on it I think there might be a few reasons I wasn't up for it:

1. In the words of George W Bush - 'I mis-underestimated' what the 15 miles faster than MP did to me on Sunday.
2. I've not staggered the hard tempo runs very well. 4 x 2, 8 x1, 3x3 - they are all big hard sessions for me. I should have introduced a stepback week. Instead I just ploughed on running my long runs hard and then expecting to be able to churn these out week after week.
3. I ran too fast in-between big sessions.

They're my excuses and I'm sticking to them! Lessons learned. Anyway, no big deal. The fact that I skipped one 3 mile rep wont make much difference on race day. One last longish run at the weekend and then its time to taper.

Krusty_Clown

Like Asimonov, those numbers you are hitting are staggering and I can't wait to see the results. One 3 mile rep won't make a jot of difference on the 28th November, when you can manage 15@6:12 in training. If I had done a similar session in training a couple of weeks before the race, that would be my goal marathon pace.

dermCu

Thur 11th Nov: 6 @ 7:05 Cold, wet, windy, tired....enjoyed it.

Fri 12th Nov: am 8.7 @ 6:52, lunchtime 6 @ 6:48
Still a bit wild on the am run. Headed to Ireland for the weekend so got a sneaky 6 in at lunchtime to wrap up the last double.

Sat 13th Nov: 7.2 @ 6:56 It was nice to get out on the backroads, didn't see a sinner for miles.

Sun 14th Nov: 19 @ 6:52 Last longish run. I didn't keep the pace down on Fri & Sat so I wasn't too surprised when the legs were a little tired. Just a little workout on Wed and then it's full on taper.

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Like Asimonov, those numbers you are hitting are staggering and I can't wait to see the results. One 3 mile rep won't make a jot of difference on the 28th November, when you can manage 15@6:12 in training. If I had done a similar session in training a couple of weeks before the race, that would be my goal marathon pace.

Cheers Krusty, your not the only one who can't wait to see how things pan out, really looking forward to it now. You know how it is; we can push numbers and paces around all we want but so much of it just depends on how you feel on the day. If I feel I can push on at that pace I will, if not that's fine. We'll see how it goes.

dermCu

Mon 15th Nov: 0 Given that I'd just ran 40 miles in the last 3 days with almost all of them under 7 m/m I made myself take a rest day. That's not exactly great tapering.

Tue 16th Nov: 8.7 @ 6:51 Wow, it was cold. One of those foggy evenings where the temp struggles just above 0. Had to move along at a reasonable pace just to keep warm.

Wed 17th Nov: 16 @ 6:56
3 w/u, 6 x 1 mile 2 min rec, 6 easy

5:34, 5:34, 5:40, 5:43, 5:43, 5:41

I was a bit too excited on the first 2. The times were only going to drift after that but happily not by too much. Found it hard enough in places. That's pretty much me done. I might do a mini session on Monday, nothing more than 2 or 3 short reps to keep a bit of zip in the legs. Other than that it's easy running from here on in with the odd mile at M pace.

theboyblunder

super running dermcu. really looking forward to seeing what you do in florence.

dermCu

Thur 18th Nov: 6 @ 7:15 Bit tired, happy to be on the wind down.

Fri 19th Nov: 8.7 @ 6:59 Another cold foggy night. Enjoyed just being out for a jog.

Sat 20th Nov: 5 @ 6:51 Had to hold back at times, the pace felt very easy.

Sun 21st Nov: 13.4 @ 6:51 Started off very easy but felt very sluggish at times. Threw in a 6:09 last mile to keep the legs ticking over. Can't say it felt easy. Last longish run done.

heffsarmy

All the hard work is done now, rest and carb like a good thing the weekend. Are you going to give the carb depletion a go?

dermCu

Mon 22nd Nov: 6 @ 7:10 Nice and easy. Can feel the temp starting to drop. Seems like the taper has come at the right time.

heffsarmy wrote: »

All the hard work is done now, rest and carb like a good thing the weekend. Are you going to give the carb depletion a go?

Ya, its pretty much all done now Heff. Started the carb depletion this morning.
Scrambled eggs for breakfast, chicken and a pathetic amount of veg for lunch and it'll be tuna steaks for dinner. Today is fine, its all a bit of a novelty but I'm not looking forward to the next two days. Come Thursday I'm going to carb load like a mad man.

dermCu

Tue 23rd Nov: 8.7 @ 7:04
Day 2 of the carb depletion experiment. Not really a great laugh today. Feeling kind of fuzzy and a bit grumpy. Funnily enough didn't feel too bad when I was actually running. Looking forward to getting this over and done with.

Sosa

Best luck the w/e dermcu....
enjoy it and i look forward to reading the report...

heffsarmy

How are you feelin today? I found this the toughest day, think off all those carbs you will be eating tommorow

dermCu

Sosa wrote: »

Best luck the w/e dermcu....
enjoy it and i look forward to reading the report...

Thanks Sosa, hopefully I'll have a race that's worth reporting!!

heffsarmy wrote: »

How are you feelin today? I found this the toughest day, think off all those carbs you will be eating tommorow

Like a Zombie - And that's probably a little bit insulting to the zombie. I'm seeing carbs everywhere I look; people with cans of coke, chocolate...saw some ba*****d eating a muffin in the tea room this morning. I took it as a personal insult.

One good thing is that it stops you from thinking about the race. All you can think about is what you'll have for breakfast on Thursday morning. At the moment the list is: Bagel, coffee, lucozade sport, toast & jam. Pancakes would be nice but I don't think I can eat that much.

I think I'll rest today and try and get out for 3 or 4 on Thursday before breakfast. I'll finish off the last 1/2 K or so at full on effort. Hopefully that'll deplete things even further and turn me into a sponge for all those carbs that are coming my way.

dermCu

Thur 25th Nov: 4.2 @ 6:52 Started off slow. Started to wind it up on the last mile finishing full on for the last 2 mins......then I stuffed as many carbs as I could manage down my throat.

30 mins to an hour later I felt like a different man. I wouldn't like to do that too often. I don't think I'd manage on a diet like that for very long, hats off to anyone who has the willpower to maintain a low carb diet for a long period of time.

heffsarmy

The depletion phase is tough, but as you say its unreall how quick you bounce back with the carbs. Good luck with the marathon on sunday, all the hard work is done, its just the easy part now.

Krusty_Clown

Hi DermCu, hope it goes really really well, and look forward to hearing how you get on. Go kill it!

RacoonQueen

Best of luck out there!

dermCu

2:45 delighted, tough second half, off to the bar.

heffsarmy

Far play too you, excellent result. Lookin forward to the report, enjoy the beers.