I want to up my game but am stuck and frustrated, advice?

Misty Chaos

I'm sorry guys, I don't mean to be attention seeking or all that nonsense but I'm really at my wits end right now and I would really appreciate some advice.

As you may know, I'm a Juri player and I play with a fight pad. I don't know what the hell has happened to me since the week of inferno 10 but I've gone to sh!t online. I'm constantly losing matches and am lucky to win a single match in an entire day playing!

Maybe its because I recently hit B rank territory, the one that separates the men from the scrubs so to speak. Its not like I'm not trying to learn advanced tactics but it is so frustrating when I keep getting beaten by players who are simply better than me and who can outclass all my current range of tactics. Its clearly getting to me, I've slammed my controller on the ground in frustration a lot over the past few days!

To those who have played me please tell me what the fook I am doing wrong!? I already know that jumping to much is a bad idea but else I am doing wrong, what do I need to do!?

A very frustrated Misty.

Cobelcog

I think I played you online the other day, yeah? I forget most of what went down so I can't really comment on your approach or playstyle. However, something did stand out to me. From what I remember, my big advice would be to maximise your damage output. Whenever you got the opportunity to do some damage, you'd do like four light kicks in a row into nothing.

That does nothing, use these opportunities to land a big combo and do damage. Hit confirm those normals into your damaging specials. I don't know Juri combos, so it's worth going through her trials and seeing what she can do but I'm sure you could use those lights and hitconfirm into her pinwheel or whatever.

ogiekeaney

The best advive I can give you is to keep practicing.The only way to improve is to keep playing people who are better than you and when you lose evaluate what went wrong rather than getting pissed.Learning matchups takes time, you've only been playing juri a few months!!

Also have you considered that maybe juri is'nt for you?She has some pretty complex stuff that i dont even think is possible on a pad. Maybe check out some other characters.I mained ryu for months and months before realising that he just did'nt suit my playstyle.I changed to blanka and bison and within weeks was winning alot more, and more importantly having more fun.

Dreddybajs

I can't think of a single thing in SF4 that simply isn't possible on a pad, I doubt that's the issue. Maybe Gen's s. mk into hands combos come close but that''s about it, and I'd say they're doable if your execution is good enough.

edit: Also my advice would be play offline as much as you can rather than online, if you're playing online play endless mode instead of ranked, and maybe try out some different characters.

K.O.Kiki

Play Ryu, learn fundamentals, be Daigo

unky chop chop

How ya Misty,
Played you a fair few times and I think your problem boils down to two things.
1. lack of punishing
2. Your Juri play style

With point two I mean that whenever I was playing you you seemed to play with her defensively. Juri is is best played as a pure rush down character and playing other wise will get you beaten badly due to her low health.
But in order to play pure rush down you need the Combos...so Practice practice Practice

Burning Eclipse

Hey Misty,

I've never played you, but this is my advice. Watch videos/replays of yourself playing! It is the fastest way of seeing what the problems in your game are (in my case, unsafe spiral arrows and RAND0M ULTRAS!!!1!!11!). You may cringe initially, I know I did, but it's a great help.

So, after a session where you weren't happy with your play go into the replay channel and watch every match. If you lost, why? Did your execution let you down? Look at the inputs. Are you punishing as much as you could, etc.

FutureGuy

Hi Misty,
Echoing what cobelcog pointed out regarding not maximising damage, I was told the same a few months ago. I am not familiar with Juri but if the first 1-2 lk hit, you need to practice linking the lk into a bigger combo. I was hitting 3 c.lp with Ryu but then not knowing what to do. I spent the guts of a month practicing and I am linking my c.lp into c.mp/c.hp>tatsu very easily now. If they block the first hit, i'll still throw out c.lp, c.lp, c.mk, hadoken which builds the super bar.

Also, try to arrange a few sets with the top players here and ask for advice. I learned alot by doing so.

Ken B

Hi Misty, we've played many times as you know...

My advice, and what I do is, learn the exact properties and uses of every single attack in every situation that your chracter has. And you should have a ready-made punish for every attack that your enemy does and if you can't max your damage output, at least make sure that you are safe after your attack.

Recently some American slated my Ibuki for not using combos(target and crossup). I explained to him that I'm trying to become acquainted with all her normals before I start complicating things...
He said 'nah, that's just coz you're a scrub'. He was wrong though, as I then changed to my main and showed his 6000BP+ Akuma what a fully learned character can do...


Ps: Watching videos of yourself(especially very close ones that you lost) can be very insightful. Think: 'What did I do wrong?' 'How could I have changed that?'

chopperbyrne

unky chop chop wrote: »

How ya Misty,
Played you a fair few times and I think your problem boils down to two things.
1. lack of punishing
2. Your Juri play style

With point two I mean that whenever I was playing you you seemed to play with her defensively. Juri is is best played as a pure rush down character and playing other wise will get you beaten badly due to her low health.
But in order to play pure rush down you need the Combos...so Practice practice Practice

I don't agree with this. Juri has the tools to be a very effective defensive character. Stored fireballs at three different heights, that dodge move, a really fast dive kick that can be done as an Insta-Air and an easy and fast hit confirm into pinwheel.

Dreddybajs

Yeah Juri is fine played defensively and almost certainly should be in some matchups imo.

unky chop chop

She has indeed great defensive tools but if that's all you use to try and keep an opponent out you will fail unless you punish/counter your opponents every attack to the fullest extent( which was my first point).Mix ups are needed and rush down to get the life lead

D4RK ONION

Ken B wrote: »

Hi Misty, we've played many times as you know...

My advice, and what I do is, learn the exact properties and uses of every single attack in every situation that your chracter has. And you should have a ready-made punish for every attack that your enemy does and if you can't max your damage output, at least make sure that you are safe after your attack.

Recently some American slated my Ibuki for not using combos(target and crossup). I explained to him that I'm trying to become acquainted with all her normals before I start complicating things...
He said 'nah, that's just coz you're a scrub'. He was wrong though, as I then changed to my main and showed his 6000BP+ Akuma what a fully learned character can do...


Ps: Watching videos of yourself(especially very close ones that you lost) can be very insightful. Think: 'What did I do wrong?' 'How could I have changed that?'

I entirely agree with Ken B here. I think we have very similar approaches to character learning. You need to know the effective normal to use in every situation. The only honda normals I don't use often are st. mk and sweep. Every other one has a use and it's important to know where and when those uses are.

I'm currently having a serious amount of fun learning Makoto and she is ALL about the normals. She has such a diverse set of standing, towards and crouching normals that you'd be a fool not to take advantage of them to the fullest.

I have a few damage combos too but they come in time and the fancier ones are generally saved for when you've mastered the character. I mean, look at DooM for ages there he focused on zoning and the only damage combo he used competitively was c.mp xx Flash kick and he was doing great!

Basically you need to read, you need to study and you need to put the training dummy on record and see what your normals can do with regards stuffing failed/whiffed attacks.

/rant

PS: This should be your go-to bible on Juri

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FNQreVzXko

(EDIT: From the first line of the video "Juri is a zoning character that requires an extensive familiarity with most of her normals )

chris mcmahon

youtube juri and find a pro player that uses her, and try and copy their style, thats what i did with ken and i instantly got better, do the things that they do and incororate them. dont worry about being original you can devise our own tricks later, if it works-use it.
i copied "ed ma"s ken playstyle before he switched to akuma and it worked. ed ma now actually plays juri, he did so at evo and beat marn......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub4ksIF80wE
i hit that brick wall you have a while ago, all you can do is keep playing.

D4RK ONION

chris mcmahon wrote: »

youtube juri and find a pro player that uses her, and try and copy their style, thats what i did with ken and i instantly got better, do the things that they do and incororate them. dont worry about being original you can devise our own tricks later, if it works-use it.
i copied "ed ma"s ken playstyle before he switched to akuma and it worked. ed ma now actually plays juri, he did so at evo and beat marn......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ub4ksIF80wE
i hit that brick wall you have a while ago, all you can do is keep playing.

If you're looking for a pro Juri Player, I suggest eiSH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZWNPFCsFaY

Search him on youtube

Doctor DooM

Yeah the way I learned was to spend months and months working with spacing and zoning and my agressive play was hugely weak, I often relied on j hk cr hk ffs!

This did me for the longest while tbh, but ever since day one there was a brick wall which zoning alone cannot beat. This brick wall had names like "Bush" and "Sagat08 WAZ ERE" scrawled all over it.

So now I feel I have sufficient grasp of the space game I'm working on the combos to really damage when I make the other guy make a mistake.

I'm actually not doing as well as I used to like that but I think it's only time til I find the balance.

I kinda feel this approach was a mistake as when I started learning to combo it took me sooooo long to attain the level of execution needed to hit Guile's 1 framers. A little work on that earlier would have saved me alot of trouble.

SO my advice would be figure out 2 or 3 combos which are a) easy enought o do b) kinda damaging and c) pretty safe. And work on finding openingsand punishing with these combos to start.

animaX

Another huge element is matchup knowledge. You have to know how to deal with certain characters. Naturally, you don't approach a ryu match the same way you approach a guile match, same goes for every character.

SRK usually has good matchup advice threads in the individual character subforums. Knowledge also comes with experience but unfortunately playing online doesn't often give you opportunities to play less popular characters.

Ian McTetly

I'm sure you'll find this out in no time, but Juri needs to land a st.lp or st.lk to cancel into her pinwheel from a hit confirm (although the st.lp will whiff a crouching opponent whereas the st.lk will connect), ie cr.lkx2,st.lkxxpinwheel, so work on that bnb, mix it up with throws and crossups, and you've got yourself a basic rushdown when you need it. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong btw)

ogiekeaney

Dreddybajs wrote: »

I can't think of a single thing in SF4 that simply isn't possible on a pad, I doubt that's the issue. Maybe Gen's s. mk into hands combos come close but that''s about it, and I'd say they're doable if your execution is good enough.

edit: Also my advice would be play offline as much as you can rather than online, if you're playing online play endless mode instead of ranked, and maybe try out some different characters.

Im a pad player myself and there are many things you cant do on a pad.Blanka,chun li,honda,Gen, all have stuff thats simply not possible without a stick.This may not be the case with juri.I guess with a smart button set up you could manage to store three fireballs and still use the punch buttons.Nevertheless I do think that juri is a highly technical character and is not beginner friendly. It will take alot longer to become competitive with her in comparison to say balrog,bison,blanka or chunli.

If you really enjoy playing juri though keep at it. here is the best juri tutorial ive found online.
http://www.youtube.com/user/OptionSelectDotCom

chris mcmahon

anything you can do on a stick, can be done on a pad. there is no logical reason to suggest this isnt the case. if there is something you think you cant do then your not trying hard enough, it took me ages during the first few months of street fighter 4 to nail FADCs, but now they are second nature.

ps im talking about a madcatz fightpad here, not the 360 controller (that blows goats and will almost certainly limit your execution), if you dead set on sticking with a pad like me and you havent got a fightpad, i highly recommend getting one, helps immensly. i find even doing a fireball hard on the 360 controller nevermind ultra combos.

Scavenger XIII

chris mcmahon wrote: »

i find even doing a fireball hard on the 360 controller nevermind ultra combos.

The first time I played a 360 back when it came out was a couple rounds of DoA4, I had a hard time just reaching my character on the select screen.

Quality control guys at MS should've been hung over that d-pad.

Ian McTetly

chris mcmahon wrote: »

anything you can do on a stick, can be done on a pad. there is no logical reason to suggest this isnt the case. if there is something you think you cant do then your not trying hard enough, it took me ages during the first few months of street fighter 4 to nail FADCs, but now they are second nature.

ps im talking about a madcatz fightpad here, not the 360 controller (that blows goats and will almost certainly limit your execution), if you dead set on sticking with a pad like me and you havent got a fightpad, i highly recommend getting one, helps immensly. i find even doing a fireball hard on the 360 controller nevermind ultra combos.

I played on a 360 pad for the better part of a year and while it took some getting used too, I managed to do all of the trails in vanilla on it- I was just wondering what it is that makes the madcatz fightpads better? I get that they're meant to be a throwback for people who played on the snes/megadrive, but it looks like it would cause more problems than it would solve.

ogiekeaney

chris mcmahon wrote: »

anything you can do on a stick, can be done on a pad. there is no logical reason to suggest this isnt the case. if there is something you think you cant do then your not trying hard enough, it took me ages during the first few months of street fighter 4 to nail FADCs, but now they are second nature.

ps im talking about a madcatz fightpad here, not the 360 controller (that blows goats and will almost certainly limit your execution), if you dead set on sticking with a pad like me and you havent got a fightpad, i highly recommend getting one, helps immensly. i find even doing a fireball hard on the 360 controller nevermind ultra combos.

so you're telling me you can do

blankas walking electricity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqdCUOK07Q8

chuns roundhouse legs into forward legs into a combo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyx-U1RA4Ew


and hondas jab into hhs into hhs :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kKVNXeScOE&feature=related

with a pad...... without using turbo?

Doctor DooM

ogiekeaney wrote: »

and hondas jab into hhs into hhs :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kKVNXeScOE&feature=related

with a pad...... without using turbo?

Could you do it on a stick without turbo?

Why would a 6 button pad on your knee be any harder for button inputs than a stick?

chopperbyrne

chris mcmahon wrote: »

the 360 controller blows goats and will almost certainly limit your execution. If you're dead set on sticking with a pad like me and you haven't got a fightpad, i highly recommend getting one, helps immensely. i find even doing a fireball hard on the 360 controller nevermind ultra combos.

One of the best players we have plays on a regular 360 controller and does fine.

animaX

ogiekeaney wrote: »

so you're telling me you can do

blankas walking electricity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqdCUOK07Q8

chuns roundhouse legs into forward legs into a combo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyx-U1RA4Ew


and hondas jab into hhs into hhs :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kKVNXeScOE&feature=related

with a pad...... without using turbo?

Sure. You should follow the techniques outlined in this video (though it is for stick) and just apply those same techniques to pad. It's the same fundamental concept

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-_gQOIauq0

Also, that video was made by cobelcog

Ian McTetly

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Could you do it on a stick without turbo?

Why would a 6 button pad on your knee be any harder for button inputs than a stick?

I haven't used one so I couldn't say for sure, but in my experience a big part of playing pad comes down to holding it with two hands, whereas resting it on your knee and drumming fingers across the right side while holding the left side to operate the stick with your thumb doesn't sound practical or comfortable, not to mention how close the buttons are together - but that goes back to me wondering how the fightpads are a better choice for some people, are they used without macros?

Either way, IMO a stick only helps to a really significant degree with things like plinking, with charge characters and with crazy hitting 9 buttons at once characters like Viper(or in games with similar execution requirements, ie MvC2).
Regardless, you don't need a stick to learn about spacing, footsies, etc. Just do some research and tough it out, I wouldn't believe I could get better if I didn't remember not thinking I could improve 6 months ago, it all takes time.

Dreddybajs

ogiekeaney wrote: »

so you're telling me you can do

blankas walking electricity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqdCUOK07Q8

chuns roundhouse legs into forward legs into a combo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kyx-U1RA4Ew


and hondas jab into hhs into hhs :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kKVNXeScOE&feature=related

with a pad...... without using turbo?

Unless I'm missing something all of those could be done as easily on pad as stick using a claw grip (LordDVD, Europe's best Honda, uses pad and hits that combo reliably).

Most top European Tekken players use pad as well, as do some of the top Marvel Vs Capcom 2 players, which has combos far harder than anything in SF4.

roy nelson

Go home and be a family man




jk

Sisko

Nothing is impossible to do on pad, but a lot of things are easier to do on stick.

You could probably play street fighter with a guitar hero....guitar... with enough practice. Just making it harder for yourself and longer before you get to the stage where you can pull off what you want then it would on an more easy to use control device.

ogiekeaney

I guess i stand corrected, on a six button pad which allows you to slide that stuff is possibble.....(lowers head and walks away):(