Is Sinn Fein losing their grip?

Winty

Watching the violence in north Belfast the other night it became apparent that Sinn Fein are starting to lose the control they had over Republican youths.

I remember a time when the local Sinn Fein member had a Puppeteer control over the local population and if instructed to either start or stop a riot the crowd would follow orders.

So what happen last night?

A one stage when Gerry Kelly was being interviewed in the Ardoyne on Wednesday evening the kids behind him were throwing stones at the Police, against the wishes of Kelly who was calling for calm.

10 or even 5 years ago this would have never happen, nobody would have the balls to go against an instruction from a senior Sinn Fein member.

I can predict what Sinn Fein support will reply.

“Sinn Fein is now the largest party in Northern Ireland by vote share”

My question is, are Sinn Fein loosing control over the youth in republican areas and thus driving them into the arms of dissident republicans

BluePlanet

Yeah it's a natural consequence of the Peace Process.

Years ago posters like yourself would moan about SF's links to the IRA.
You'd complain when you read about a punishment beating.
Yet you never considered that there were certain advantages to that relationship.

Back in the day a SF person or his minders could mention the IRA to those gurriers and they'd suddenly find their manners.
Today there is no IRA (Provos anyway), which means there are no punishment beatings or kneecappings: the only tools in the box for the IRA to put manners on those youths.

Lots of room for the Real IRA to exploit me thinks.
I just hope the PSNI don't do something stupid and pour fuel on the fire.

How do you think SF should control these gangs of youths?
Try and invite them for tea?

ei.sdraob

BluePlanet wrote: »

How do you think SF should control these gangs of youths?
Try and invite them for tea?

i think this thread has it arse-ways

its the job of the police to control gangs

not a political party

FlutterinBantam

It's not a question of SF losing their grip in my opinion,just the standard result years of double standards by a hard core of layabouts on both sides in that country.

They paint themselves into ghettoes,the Nats have noooo problem taking the 'Queen's shilling' most of them never did a days work in their lives and never will,and that's on both sides.

So when an event like the twelfth comes along, or a Celtic Rangers game or a march of some kind, it's almost carte blanche for these thugs to run riot.

Both sides are responsible and the loser is the taxpayer who now has to fund the policing and clean up.

A lot of these people will only respond when they feel the muzzle of a loaded gun against their thick heads.

Bottom line is ,I suppose, you can't clean out a festering sore that has gone untreated for many many years in a short time.

As a previous poster said, it opens the door for the hard liners.

Biggins

I think the level of criminality that alot of us know is going on within reach of their influence or org, is holding them back too.
As long as they are say on one hand that "we are upholding the lands of the land now" and on the other at local level, allowing scumbags possibly known to them to carry on with their very evil antics of murder, drug related crime and petrol rackets to name just three - they will always be looked upon with the same distain we now have equally for Fianna Fail!

Winty

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

They paint themselves into ghettoes,the Nats have noooo problem taking the 'Queen's shilling' most of them never did a days work in their lives and never will,and that's on both sides.

Good Point

I saw one guy being interviewd on BBC news (face hidden from view) saying

"What peace process, we dont have jobs nor nothing" "Catholics are second glass in our own country"

To be fair to Sinn Fein who could help a ned like him.
He thinks the world owes him a flat screen TV and a girlfriend with bigger breasts

Biggins

Winty wrote: »

Good Point

I saw one guy being interviewd on BBC news (face hidden from view) saying

"What peace process, we dont have jobs nor nothing" "Catholics are second glass in our own country"

To be fair to Sinn Fein who could help a ned like him.
He thinks the world owes him a flat screen TV and a girlfriend with bigger breasts

I agree but if they want his support (and ours someday) they will have to end the witness intimidation to the crimes some of their colleagues are participating in.
They will have to end the two faced lies to the nations cameras.
They will have to hand over those they know to be responsible for many a crime.
They will have to stop some of their "mates" raiding the Dublin dock ship containers.
They will have to stop supposedly taking revenue from those in crime who are coughing up so that the republican regional gangs (local equivalent versions of a "Mafia" now) will look the other way.

They will have to do all that and more - but you and I know they won't.
So they will stay where they are, in limbo floating around with a core minimum support and remain going nowhere fast.

FTA69

Not necessarily, Sinn Féin's political demise is occurring due to its abandonment of radical politics backed up with hard work on the ground. Like other parties before them, their rush to the centre ground of Irish politics has led to them falling between two stools, their lack of ability to capitalise on massive public discontent is also fairly telling considering they have less support now than they did at the height of the boom.

While the IRA thing is undoubtedly a large turn off for many, to hold that up as the reason of their stagnation is just plain wrong really.

Biggins

FTA69 wrote: »

...While the IRA thing is undoubtedly a large turn off for many, to hold that up as the reason of their stagnation is just plain wrong really.

I respect your opinion but will have to disagree completely.
I, my family (close and extended) and many that I know still see the one and the other as something that has just changed tactics, done a PR job and possible re-organisation while still maintaining the same bad antics.
...But we will have to agree, to disagree.

Mylesie

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

It's not a question of SF losing their grip in my opinion,just the standard result years of double standards by a hard core of layabouts on both sides in that country.

They paint themselves into ghettoes,the Nats have noooo problem taking the 'Queen's shilling' most of them never did a days work in their lives and never will,and that's on both sides.

The Queen's shilling??? Are you sure you got that right??

CMACSAFF

The majority of those rioting in the Ardoyne have little to no interest in politics and couldn't for the life of them articulate a political position. They just take the chance to cause mayhem and others use it for their own purposes.

Scum plain and simple.

This will not in any way effect the Sinn Fein vote.

froog

sinn fein never had a "grip".

Fratton Fred

From what I could see, SF have got nothing to do with this. it looked like a bunch of thugs who just wanted an excuse to riot. politics/civil rights etc had nothing to do with it, other than being a very handy excuse to throw a few stones.

The fact that guns were fired and petrol/nail/pipe bombs thrown does suggest that someone is orchestrating this though. Scobes don't suddenly learn how to build a pipe bomb and find a gun to fire. someone with a ****ed up agenda has pulled a few strings and a few idiots fell for it, supported by a number of people who were just looking for a riot.

It has been a sad few days in NI all round.

Nodin

Biggins wrote: »

I think the level of criminality that alot of us know is going on within reach of their influence or org, is holding them back too.
As long as they are say on one hand that "we are upholding the lands of the land now" and on the other at local level, allowing scumbags possibly known to them to carry on with their very evil antics of murder, drug related crime and petrol rackets to name just three - they will always be looked upon with the same distain we now have equally for Fianna Fail!

You seem to be equating Sinn Fein with racketeering. If you've evidence, present it - to the Gardai as well, preferably. Otherwise I'd suggest keeping unfounded accusations out of it.

Mylesie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

From what I could see, SF have got nothing to do with this. it looked like a bunch of thugs who just wanted an excuse to riot. politics/civil rights etc had nothing to do with it, other than being a very handy excuse to throw a few stones.

The fact that guns were fired and petrol/nail/pipe bombs thrown does suggest that someone is orchestrating this though. Scobes don't suddenly learn how to build a pipe bomb and find a gun to fire. someone with a ****ed up agenda has pulled a few strings and a few idiots fell for it, supported by a number of people who were just looking for a riot.

It has been a sad few days in NI all round.

see Father gary Donovan slant on it!!

http://sluggerotoole.com/

Fratton Fred

Mylesie wrote: »

see Father gary Donovan slant on it!!

http://sluggerotoole.com/

There are some good points raised there. A lot of the pictures showed enough information for parents to recognise their kids. If i caught one of mine involved in something like that they would be grounded for life!

As the saying goes though, they don't lick it up off the floor.....

Winty

Fratton Fred wrote: »

From what I could see, SF have got nothing to do with this. it looked like a bunch of thugs who just wanted an excuse to riot.

Agree

Just to be clear, I am no way putting the blame on Sinn Fein, in fact they did try to stop the trouble, my point is that republician areas are no longer under the control of Sinn Fein.

Will the dissident republicans now gain control in areas like the Bogside?

kmick

I think the day the cameras stop turning up for what is essentially a social outing for half wits then at least we wont have to watch them. Its a local problem let the local police sort it out - why is it newsworthy any more?

froog

shameful scenes on the belfast dublin train.

Fratton Fred

Winty wrote: »

Agree

Just to be clear, I am no way putting the blame on Sinn Fein, in fact they did try to stop the trouble, my point is that republician areas are no longer under the control of Sinn Fein.

Will the dissident republicans now gain control in areas like the Bogside?

That's a good and very worrying point.

As the BBC reporter said, a lot of those rioting weren't even born when the IRA called their last cease fire, so what is their rationale for doing this? is it because it is what their parents did and they see it as being traditional, are they being influenced by people who want toderail the peace process? do they think that the days of the troubles were somehow glamorous?

Now is when the likes of Gerry Kelly need to be standing up and saying "I was involved and i did some shameful things, it is not big and not clever and it certainly isn't the way forward.

Biggins

Nodin wrote: »

You seem to be equating Sinn Fein with racketeering. If you've evidence, present it - to the Gardai as well, preferably. Otherwise I'd suggest keeping unfounded accusations out of it.

I equate some of their associates with some very still illegal activities amid the still ongoing news reports of these activities are still being broadcast across the nation weekly to say the least.

Please, don't make us laugh!

Nodin

Biggins wrote: »

I equate (............)!

What you "equate" in the privacy of your own head is your own business. However there's no proof whatsoever to your claims, and thus its best to keep them out of the public domain. What you refer to has been linked to dissident groups. If you have knowledge otherwise, give it to the Gardai and/or the PSNI.

I find it strange that in a thread where many - none of them friendly towards Sinn Fein - have remarked that the current trouble is none of their doing, you try to drag this nonsense into it.

FTA69

I respect your opinion but will have to disagree completely.
I, my family (close and extended) and many that I know still see the one and the other as something that has just changed tactics, done a PR job and possible re-organisation while still maintaining the same bad antics.
...But we will have to agree, to disagree.

The same bad antics? The Provisional IRA is largely defunct nowadays, your notion that they're some sort of mass-organised crime group inextricably tied to Sinn Féin is just plain wrong like.

Similarly your assertion that the above is the reason behind Sinn Féin's stagnation is also plain wrong, the party was up to 14% in opinion polls at one stage; and that's when the IRA very much did exist.

FTA69

Regards this recent rioting, personally I don't see much to be gained in wrecking your own gaff; that having been said it's also important to look at the cause behind these riots and that was the cops trying to force a sectarian and triumphalist parade through an area where it wasn't wanted.

jill_valentine

As the BBC reporter said, a lot of those rioting weren't even born when the IRA called their last cease fire, so what is their rationale for doing this? is it because it is what their parents did and they see it as being traditional, are they being influenced by people who want toderail the peace process? do they think that the days of the troubles were somehow glamorous?

I think that could be the problem. They don't remember the reality of it, they have it built up into some sort of mythical crusade against the Boogeyman and get wrapped up in all the drama of their idea of it. Trying to prove they're every bit as big and bad as the lads in the murals.

Jaap

FTA69 wrote: »

The same bad antics? The Provisional IRA is largely defunct nowadays, your notion that they're some sort of mass-organised crime group inextricably tied to Sinn Féin is just plain wrong like.

Similarly your assertion that the above is the reason behind Sinn Féin's stagnation is also plain wrong, the party was up to 14% in opinion polls at one stage; and that's when the IRA very much did exist.

The IRA is defunct nowadays...what about this article from about 2 years ago!!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jan/27/northernireland.henrymcdonald

Poor Paul Quinn...and even Robert McCartney!!!

The IRA are still going...just like the UVF who murdered on the Shankill a month or so ago!!! Scum the lot of them!!!

FTA69

Jaap wrote: »

The IRA is defunct nowadays...what about this article from about 2 years ago!!!

Yeah, two years ago. The IRA as an organisation is defunct, and it certainly isn't a nationally-organised criminal organisation the way some people on this thread have tried to suggest.

Biggins

Nodin wrote: »

What you "equate" in the privacy of your own head is your own business. However there's no proof whatsoever to your claims, and thus its best to keep them out of the public domain. What you refer to has been linked to dissident groups. If you have knowledge otherwise, give it to the Gardai and/or the PSNI.

I find it strange that in a thread where many - none of them friendly towards Sinn Fein - have remarked that the current trouble is none of their doing, you try to drag this nonsense into it.

Really? Talk about head in the sand or just not wishing to see it!

Let me quote just ONE site of many:

The simple fact is that the IRA, of which Sinn Fein and Gerry Adams are so proud, committed an enormous number of crimes. Even by the Sutton Index ,which grossly underestimates the IRA’s crimes, it was responsible for 1709 deaths during the Troubles and that is to leave out crimes which are accepted by practically everyone to have been committed by the IRA such as Kingsmills.

Senior individuals within Sinn Fein have been repeatedly linked to criminality. Gerry Adams himself has been linked to La Mon and possibly most notoriously to the murder of Jean McConville. Adams’s denials have to be taken alongside his other denials. Whilst various politicians have tried to make their lives appear more interesting than they are (a category into which Adam’s claims to have sung “Always look on the bright side of life” in gaol should be put): his lies about being in gaol when Jean McConville was murdered paint a picture of an individual whose word is utterly worthless.

It is of course not only Adams who seems to have blood not only on his hands but to be saturated in the stuff: Operation Taurus against Martin McGuinness appeared to have evidence of several crimes for which he could have been prosecuted and in 2001 Ian Paisley named Martin McGuinness as the one who ordered Frank Hegarty’s murder.

In very few countries would politicians be expected to share power with a party led by people over whom such serious accusations hang. It might be possible to argue that these accusations are exactly that, only accusations: however, there are also multiple Sinn Fein MLAs who have been found guilty of serious crimes. Gerry Kelly is a released life sentence criminal, convicted in connection with the Old Bailey bombing which killed one person and injured 200. Paul Butler was convicted of murdering a police officer, Martina Anderson is a convicted bomber, Conor Murphy was convicted of explosives offences.

Sinn Fein of course do not accept the IRA’s actions as remotely criminal. In a time of peace Jean McConville’s kidnap, murder and burial would be a crime: in a time of war it would be a war crime. However, as recently as January 2005 Mitchell McLaughlin, the then Sinn Fein chairman, claimed that the murder of Jean McConville was not a crime: a position which Sinn Fein have yet to reverse.

However, even if these crimes are regarded as political there are plenty of other examples of an attitude to criminality which would make it difficult for Sinn Fein to be accepted as democratic politicians in any other society.

Source: http://sluggerotoole.com/2010/04/30/sinn-fein-and-criminality/

I suggest you get that head out of the sand and in fact look up alone a copy of the Sutton Index!
Here let me start you off: http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/sutton/

Another sample quote:

The position of Sinn Fein on the Northern Bank robbery is of course that the IRA did not do it and as such presumably if they are to be taken at their word (a laughable concept) then indeed it is irrelevant. Again though to pretend for a moment to take that seriously.

When the infamous Thomas Murphy was arrested over tax evasion, Adams stated: “Tom Murphy is not a criminal. He’s a good republican and I read his statement after the Manchester raids and I believe what he says and also and very importantly he is a key supporter of Sinn Féin’s peace strategy and has been for a very long time.”

Nodin

Jaap wrote: »

The IRA is defunct nowadays...what about this article from about 2 years ago!!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jan/27/northernireland.henrymcdonald

Poor Paul Quinn...and even Robert McCartney!!!

The IRA are still going...just like the UVF who murdered on the Shankill a month or so ago!!! Scum the lot of them!!!

Your article talks of "claims". Those claims were investigated and found to be untrue, if you might recall. According to the international bodies that monitor the situation, the PIRA is defunct, gone and disbanded. Until that changes, I'd suggest focussing on the groups that do exist.

Jaap

FTA69 wrote: »

Regards this recent rioting, personally I don't see much to be gained in wrecking your own gaff; that having been said it's also important to look at the cause behind these riots and that was the cops trying to force a sectarian and triumphalist parade through an area where it wasn't wanted.

Obviously the Parades Commission thought the march should've went ahead...they have after all banned the Garvaghy Road and Lower Ormeau parades...and probably ones in Dunloy and other areas where Sinn Fein and residents groups have stoked up tensions!!!
I feel sorry for the ordinary residents of the 20 houses the Ardoyne parade goes by...and the 20 odd shops as well (the trade they are losing out on)....it is also sad that good cross community work between Ardoyne and surrounding protestant areas could be affected by rioters who don't even live in the area and who travel many miles to pretend to be offended by a small parade with no music that takes 5 minutes to pass and allows marchers to get home from town!!!

Jaap

Nodin wrote: »

Your article talks of "claims". Those claims were investigated and found to be untrue, if you might recall. According to the international bodies that monitor the situation, the PIRA is defunct, gone and disbanded. Until that changes, I'd suggest focussing on the groups that do exist.

Everybody knows what organisation murdered Paul Quinn and Robert McCartney...I think you are wrong Nodin my friend...or just like Gerry Adams can be at times...you are in denial!!!
I remember at the time of Robert's death there was a rumour that the IRA volunteered to execute the IRA killers of Mr McCartney...but the family didn't want that...

Nodin

Biggins wrote: »

Really? Talk about head in the sand or just not wishing to see it!


I suggest you get that head out of the sand and in fact look up alone a copy of the Sutton report!

That refers to past events during the armed campaign and not what you referred to earlier.

You earlier referred to

"some very still illegal activities amid the still ongoing news reports of these activities are still being broadcast across the nation weekly to say the least."

and earlier again

As long as they are say on one hand that "we are upholding the lands of the land now" and on the other at local level, allowing scumbags possibly known to them to carry on with their very evil antics of murder, drug related crime and petrol rackets to name just three

Once again, those has been linked to dissidents. If you know otherwise, to the Gardai/PSNI with you.

Nodin

Jaap wrote: »

Everybody knows what organisation murdered Paul Quinn and Robert McCartney...I think you are wrong Nodin my friend...or just like Gerry Adams can be at times...you are in denial!!!
...

It was agreed and is believed by the various bodies, unionists and two national governments not to be an IRA killing. That they failed to convince you is not really of import.

Biggins

Nodin wrote: »

...Once again, those has been linked to dissidents. If you know otherwise, to the Gardai/PSNI with you.

Who says I haven't already!

Jaap wrote: »

Everybody knows what organisation murdered Paul Quinn and Robert McCartney...I think you are wrong Nodin my friend...or just like Gerry Adams can be at times...you are in denial!!!
I remember at the time of Robert's death there was a rumour that the IRA volunteered to execute the IRA killers of Mr McCartney...but the family didn't want that...

+1

Then again Nodin, you obviously didn't see last night repeat of RTE's "Crime Capital" programme - or didn't want to!

It clear you haven't actually bothered to read the linked site and the MANY detail items on it - for fear of actually seeing something you in denial of?

For example EVEN LAST MONTH!

The IRA, along with members of Sinn Fein, were behind what the European police agency Europol said was one of the biggest and most sophisticated counterfeiting operations ever uncovered in Europe.

Europol said that when gardai raided an underground bunker in Co Laois last Tuesday, enough ink and specialist paper was found to produce €200m (£166m) worth of €50 and €100 notes.

The operation may have already netted tens of millions for the IRA and Sinn Fein operators. The notes have been spreading across Europe in the past year or so, and are of very high quality.

Source: http://saoirse32.blogsome.com/2010/06/14/ira-linked-to-counterfeit-cash-bunker/
And: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/ira-linked-to-counterfeit-cash-bunker-14841514.html

There is little more to be said!

Nodin

Biggins wrote: »

Who says I haven't already!


+(.......) MONTH!

Funny enough, other news outlets said nothing of the sort. Given the age of the individuals involved, it's more than likely former activists.

Notorious97

I think people will always have a problem with the PIRA, even though they are a disbanded army, people love to drag them back into anything they think a republican can be blamed on. The PIRA is no more according to the international body who recently completed their work with groups in the 6 counties. Former members and what they get up to cannot be blamed on the PIRA acting officially, as like it has been said in previous posts, they are now gone. People would do well to look into the fact it is dissident groups blamed by the police, governments and the assembly for inciting this hated and violence.

Back to the topic however, I think SF could be doing more to ensure these kids dont get caught up in dissident groups. I think they are obviously easily influenced and not shy about fighting, which hardliners opposed to peace can easily take advantage of. There is no excuse for this violence, but there is also no excuse for the marches through areas they know will cause trouble. they should stick to their own areas to celebrate their 'victory' 320 years ago.

Biggins

Nodin wrote: »

Funny enough, other news outlets said nothing of the sort. Given the age of the individuals involved, it's more than likely former activists.

Well the European agency didn't state EX-members and I'm quite sure they alone know their stuff and who's responsible - unless you know different?

But so yet again quote another source - this time, The Times:

IRA plc turns from terror into biggest crime gang in Europe

The Republicans’ crooked business empire rakes in huge amounts
AN ANALYSIS of the IRA’s involvement in criminal activities shows a huge range of operations, from smuggling to money laundering and from robbery to mortgage applications.

ALCOHOL

The IRA is believed to have perfected the recipe for Smirnoff Red Label vodka, among other spirits, and has a well-developed distribution network for its counterfeit products in pubs and clubs which it controls, particularly in Belfast.
Raids on illegal distilleries, mainly in border areas, have uncovered bottling and capping machinery and high- quality copies of brand labels. Many of the products are designed for use in pub optics.

Police found the seven-stage filtration machinery for deionising water not long after Diageo, the drinks company, had introduced the process at its plants. “They use industrial espionage to copy machinery, recipes and labels and are prepared to be very patient to get things absolutely right,” said a police source.

The IRA takes the production of counterfeit spirits so seriously that it even has a quality control unit. Diageo and other companies have countered with a security division which works with police and Customs on both sides of the Irish border. Last December Irish Customs seized 1,500 litres of pure alcohol on the Cooley peninsula, Co Louth, as well as printing presses and labels for a variety of vodka brands.

A Diageo spokesman said: “We are very concerned about this illegal trade. It impacts on our consumers, on government revenues and on us as the brand owners.”

ROBBERY
The IRA’s “elite robbery team” is a dedicated unit allegedly run by Bobby Storey, its director of intelligence who is revered by republicans for his anti-surveillance expertise.

The group’s income through robberies varies from year to year. According to Special Branch, Storey played a central role in the theft of £26.5 million from the Northern Bank just before Christmas and organised three other robberies which netted a further £3 million last year.

In each case the IRA used a tactic known as “tiger kidnapping”, where the family of an employee is held hostage to ensure his or her co-operation. Since April last year there have been eleven “tiger kidnappings”, at least four of which have been blamed on the IRA.

In one such raid at the Makro cash-and-carry store outside Belfast last May, four staff were held at gunpoint, tied up and gagged. Cigarettes, alcohol and electrical items worth more than £1 million were stolen. In October the IRA stole cigarettes worth £2 million from a warehouse in Ardoyne, North Belfast, owned by Gallaher’s tobacco company. Over the past two years it has stolen cigarettes worth nearly £4 million from lorries passing through South Armagh. The IRA has also been able to import cigarette cargos through Dublin port.

In the Irish Republic smaller-scale robberies of security vans and post offices have been used to train new recruits.

CROSS-BORDER SMUGGLING
Smuggling is a way of life in South Armagh, the heartland of militant republicanism. According to Customs, about half of Northern Ireland’s filling stations sell fuel smuggled from the Irish Republic, where duty is considerably lower, at a cost to the Treasury of about £200 million a year.
Fuel smuggling, much of it organised by the notorious South Armagh “brigade”, is now arguably the IRA’s single largest source of income. “What the IRA love is excise and revenue frauds, and the fuel smuggling is on an industrial scale,” said a security source. “Diesel in the Republic is about 66 or 67p per litre, so straight away you can make a profit of about 15p per litre.

“They get even more with agricultural diesel, which they buy at around 15-20p per litre, then use chemical processes to wash the dye and the markers out of it. It is then sold as ordinary car fuel for 70 to 80p per litre.”
According to the Organised Crime Task Force, the IRA’s fuel-laundering plants — often concealed in barns along the border — produce up to five million litres of illegal fuel each year, making an annual profit of at least £3 million.

About a third of all cigarettes in Northern Ireland are also smuggled, much of this proportion by the IRA, according to Customs. The cigarettes are typically brought in by the container-load from zero or low-tax countries such as Thailand, China and Turkey. A 40ft container can hold ten million cigarettes worth £1.5 million.

The IRA is still heavily involved in smuggling sheep and livestock across the border so that farmers can take advantage of VAT differences in the Republic, which allows them to claim a rebate for lambs.

In recent months the IRA has embarked on a new activity: the illegal dumping of household waste from the Republic, where residents now have to pay “bin taxes”. Police have identified at least five illegal dumping sites in Northern Ireland, with waste ranging from 5,000 to 25,000 tonnes with a value of up to £5,000 per 20-tonne lorryload.

IP CRIME
“Wherever there is a penny to be made, these boys will be turning their hands to it,” said one security official.
Seizures of pirate DVDs, CDs and computer games and software are at record levels but the quantity of goods recovered is believed to be dwarfed by how much escapes detection.

The paramilitaries have long been involved in this trade and the IRA’s links with America gave it access to new releases. Today much of the illegal product in the province is burnt on to DVDs locally after master copies are imported or downloaded.

Last weekend counterfeit goods worth £200,000, including DVDs, videos, CDs, fireworks and electrical items, were seized in Jonesborough in the heart of South Armagh.
The IRA’s counterfeiting operations extend to fake football strips, designer clothes, power tools and, in a recent discovery, a well-known brand of washing powder.

In the past it has been involved in the smuggling and sale of fake-branded disposable razors, toothpaste and other toiletries sold door to door. In one notorious example, a fake perfume seized at a market in Northern Ireland contained urine as a stabiliser.

CONSULTANCY
Special Branch believed that the IRA received up to $6 million (£3.1 million) for helping to train Marxist rebels in Colombia, where three alleged IRA members are wanted after vanishing on bail last December.
The payment was allegedly negotiated by a former IRA “chief of staff” who has worldwide contacts — including in Libya, where republicans are believed to have deposited some of the proceeds from their vast criminal empire.
Other senior republicans have also travelled to cultivate links with the PLO in the Middle East and Eta in Spain. In the past IRA men trained alongside ANC guerrillas in South Africa.

Police say that other payments have almost certainly been received from overseas for the IRA’s terrorist expertise in intelligence gathering to bomb-making.
According to Special Branch, the IRA is also heavily involved in providing security services for pubs, clubs and other venues in Belfast. The group does not officially deal in drugs but it is believed to have “licensed” the trade of illegal drugs by the dissident groups and independent dealers in Dublin.

MONEY LAUNDERING AND FINANCIAL CRIME
The IRA’s finance unit is said to have contributed to Belfast’s property boom by investing in property.

Detectives investigating a suspected IRA money-laundering network in the Republic believe that it controls a huge business portfolio including pubs, restaurants, night clubs, office blocks, taxi firms, filling stations and nursing homes. Often the IRA invests as a silent partner in legitimate businesses.
The authorities also believe that the terrorist group has been looking at property opportunities overseas, particularly in fast-growing markets outside the European Union such as Bulgaria, Turkey and Libya.
“You just can’t quantify it,” said one official. “The money is put through so many channels that it’s impossible to know. Nobody knows how much property they have, but it’s a lot.”

Other financial crimes include insurance and compensation frauds, VAT frauds, and the diversion of government and EU grants.
In West Belfast, the IRA even helps ordinary Roman Catholics to forge mortgage applications, offering bogus references and salary statements in return for a share of the loan.

Source: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/uk/article1932704.ece

So as can be seen from even last month and loads of examples previous, its time to see the big picture!
Not the Sinn Fein PR spin!

They have just got more better and professional at it and have extended across Europe too!

LordSutch

Winty wrote: »

I remember a time when the local Sinn Fein member had a Puppeteer control over the local population and if instructed to either start or stop a riot the crowd would follow orders.

Says it all really, now that SF cant just order the youths to 'start' or a 'stop' a riot, like they did in the good old old days :mad:

T runner

Jaap wrote: »

...... to pretend to be offended by a small parade with no music that takes 5 minutes to pass and allows marchers to get home from town!!!

If the reason they are marching there is just "to get home from town" than why cant they just walk/bus etc home without the parade? Why is it so important for them to march past those houses and those shops.

Fratton Fred

T runner wrote: »

If the reason they are marching there is just "to get home from town" than why cant they just walk/bus etc home without the parade? Why is it so important for them to march past those houses and those shops.

I can just picture 50 blokes in bowler hats, sashes and banners on a number 47A

Mylesie

T runner wrote: »

If the reason they are marching there is just "to get home from town" than why cant they just walk/bus etc home without the parade? Why is it so important for them to march past those houses and those shops.

Originally Posted by Jaap
...... to pretend to be offended by a small parade with no music that takes 5 minutes to pass and allows marchers to get home from town!!!

Yer rite Jaap - and they won't even join in when we chant "Five all, five all" passing the bookies!!

Nodin

Biggins wrote: »

Well (.....)
They have just got more better and professional at it and have extended across Europe too!

A five year old article. And yet the DUP are happy to be there with them. I'd suggest copping on.

Wolfe Tone

Biggins, I think you are off the mark here, the PIRA are gone. International watchdogs and agencies acknowledge this. They are defunct.

Biggins

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

Biggins, I think you are off the mark here, the PIRA are gone. International watchdogs and agencies acknowledge this. They are defunct.

Not gone, just disbanded into other activities.
Lets not be fooling ourselves. They are still there, still known to many within the Sinn Fein org and as many policing agencies, Irish, British and European, are at pains to state, are still intermixed with illegal activity.

Sorry if you don't see that or as some don't want to but SF can't have their cake and eat it while saying one thing and at the very least allowing others to do different without even a condemnation!

Who am I talking about?

Try looking up Peter John Carahar - Brendan McFarlane - Kevin Crilly - Sean Hughes - Kieran McBride - Bernard McGinn - Seak Kelly - James Monaghan - Thomas (stab) Murphy - Seamus McArdle - Colm Murphy - Bernard Fox...
...to name just a few!

The activities still continue and as last months Garda raid proved, they are still deeply involved with each other. To reiterate LAST MONTH:

The IRA, along with members of Sinn Fein, were behind what the European police agency Europol said was one of the biggest and most sophisticated counterfeiting operations ever uncovered in Europe

Who is fooling oneself again!

Wolfe Tone

Biggins wrote: »

Not gone, just disbanded into other activities.
Lets not be fooling ourselves. They are still there, still known to many within the Sinn Fein org and as many policing agencies, Irish, British and European, are at pains to state, are still intermixed with illegal activity.

Sorry if you don't see that or as some don't want to but SF can't have their cake and eat it while saying one thing and at the very least allowing others to do different without even a condemnation!

I think you are fooling yourself Biggins. It is simply not on to bring the PIRA into this debate when they are GONE.

Notorious97

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I think you are fooling yourself Biggins. It is simply not on to bring the PIRA into this debate when they are GONE.

They all do sadly though, the IRA card is always dragged out.

BlaasForRafa

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

I think you are fooling yourself Biggins. It is simply not on to bring the PIRA into this debate when they are GONE.

For someone to say that the Provos are gone is ludicrous, its beyond belief really.

Notorious97

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

For someone to say that the Provos are gone is ludicrous, its beyond belief really.

They are gone, two governments have accepted this, all parties within NI have accepted this, the international body for decommissioning Have accepted this, former members can be involved in god knows what these days, but to say the PIRA is still operating is just wrong

Biggins

BlaasForRafa wrote: »

For someone to say that the Provos are gone is ludicrous, its beyond belief really.

Yea, absolutely but its nice for some to live in the land of denial and try to place others there too.

Wolfe Tone

So Biggins, numerous governments, international bodies, the decommissioning body all accept that the PIRA have decommissioned and are essentially devoted to a peaceful path, yet you maintain that they are now a mafia style criminal organisation?

Biggins

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

So Biggins, numerous governments, international bodies, the decommissioning body all accept that the PIRA have decommissioned and are essentially devoted to a peaceful path, yet you maintain that they are now a mafia style criminal organisation?

Yes - the official policy of killing British police and army has ended but their financial gathering activities in its many guises still continues - or would you care to explain away the counterfeit case alone just last month or would one care to carefully avoid it, and avoid the many reports, the names the long list of activities still ongoing and acknowledged by policing agencies all over Europe and at home?

Keep spinning, someone might fall for it.