Need some help from boards users, taken from Playstation Forum

norrie rugger

I am looking to be able to fight Smyths on this. I do NOT feel that 28 months is a good life span of a €400 piece of electronics. Is there anyone here with experience in taking a successful claim against retails, on warranty issues?


http://m.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66910370#post66910370

Smyths wrote:

I dispute the claim because the console is 31 months old. The Warranty covers the console for 12 months against manufacturing faults. Therefore it is 19 months outside of the warranty.
The claimant hasn't verified that the fault present is indeed a manufacturing fauly of the console. We feel that the console worked for 28 months perfectly and something must have happened to affect the performance.
We feel that this is a non-manufacturing fault so therefore we cannot replace the console free of charge. We are happy to offer a replacement refurbished console for €160 which is an out of warranty service Sony offer their customers.

.

Me wrote:

This is the exact transcript, sent to SCC by Smyths.
OK those of you that offered help, can we start to take this appart.
I need to be able to send a coherent and correct reply to the SCC.

As stated previously I took a picture, of my entertainment set up. This shows a Nintendo Wii, which is 1 year older than PS3, a surround sound system (2 years older), a 42" TV (A year newer) and a PC (SEVEN years older)

I can also dig out a 20 year old TV and Atari 7800, Original model Game Boy, Megadrive from 1993, PS1, PS2 and PSP which are all in perfect working condition. I would imagine that this would establish that I know how to maintain my electrical goods and that for "Something to happen" would have happened to other items, especially the Wii sitting next to PS3.


Now we come to the fun bit. Sony/Retailers are refusing to publish the actual breakdown of faults that their "Non Specific Fault Indicator" indicates. They also use new models in their published reliability studies, as opposed to launch model 60 and 40 gig (I have 40). Is there anyone with good independant tech reports? anyone know the lads in console repairs?

Need the combined strenght of the boards community here.

whiterebel

For a start, I'd print off the poll result on the Blu-Ray of Death. May not be the most technical way to do it, but according to that, 30% of PS3s, mostly 60 and 40GB went bad. Thats in a poll of over 300 people, so to me it may be significant to a judge.

whiterebel

Sorry NR, I forgot its YLoD with yours, not the Blu-Ray. I'd mention the Watchdog report on the BBC too.

bonzer1again

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_warranty

foggy_lad

could you outline your issue with the item here in this thread in one post and all steps you have taken so far as it is very hard to sift out the facts from a thread with 25 pages that has several people with issues contributing to it.

from what i gathere so far your ps3 broke after 31 months use and smyths are refusing to repair replace or refund,

well it is not reasonable that a ps3 costing that much should not last a reasonable 4-5 years without fault and the fact that smyths are refusing to repair or attempt a repair will go against them!

and dont go into stuff about sony this and sony that because you did not buy off sony and they have no legal obligation towards you in this, but smyths do have a legal obligation to repair replace or refund for faults which are not caused by yourself.

i am getting that smyths are claiming you "must have" done something to it but in law that means nothing, you just state that you did not and move on!

norrie rugger

OK

It went YLOD after 28 months.
It is sitting in a very well ventillated area, along with all my other electrical equipment.
It has not been mistreated.

I have currently have, in working order

1. Original GameBoy (21 years old)
2. Atari 7800 (20 years old) and the portable TV that I got with that
3. Mega Drive (17 years old)
4. Nintendo 64 (circa 12 years old)
5. PS2 (about 8 years)
6. PSP (3-4 years)
7. Nintendo Wii. (4 years)
8. I also have a PC that is 8 years old, still working (slow as crap but operates)

I would assume that this will show that I know how to take care of my electronic equipment and that if "Something" had happened, it would have also happened to some other item. Especially the Wii, which has been sitting next to the PS3 for the 28 months.
Seeing as Smyths will not accept the console back, if I break the seal to get it examined, could I offer to give it to them to independantly assess this "Something that happened"?

I went to Smyths store, called their customer helpline, emailed the customer email and then finally went the route of the SCC.

I am far from the best person, at structuring an argument, nor do I know the ins and outs of consumer law. That is why I am asking for some help, from anyone that has gone through this procedure.

foggy_lad

ok at what stage is the small claims court at?

it really would help if you did a step by step of what you have done from the start like
1/went to smyths with broken console,
2/ they refused to do anything stating warranty was only one year,
3/ etc etc

but afaik the story so far,(correct me if i am way off the mark)
you would originally have returned to smyths with the console and told them it is faulty and should last longer than 28months? but they told you the warranty period of one year was well past and you were entitled to nothing??

you tell them you have rights to repair replace or refund from smyths as they are the retailer whom you have a contract with!? and you have NO contract with Sony but they are having none of it so you prepare a case for the small claims court and submit your claim? you include details of other electronic equipment you own that has lasted up to 21 years and is in good condition which shows that it is unlikely to be a fault from misuse

have smyths rejected your claim in the SCC claiming that the warranty(sony warranty) has expired?

do they then claim to the small claims court that as it worked for 28 months then stopped you must have done something to it to affect performance?

do smyths also claim you have not proved that it is a manufacturing fault?


this post has nothing to do with it as you bought nothing from sony and their warranty does not apply to you!!!

Originally Posted by Sony
I dispute the claim because the console is 31 months old. The Warranty covers the console for 12 months against manufacturing faults. Therefore it is 19 months outside of the warranty.
The claimant hasn't verified that the fault present is indeed a manufacturing fauly of the console. We feel that the console worked for 28 months perfectly and something must have happened to affect the performance.
We feel that this is a non-manufacturing fault so therefore we cannot replace the console free of charge. We are happy to offer a replacement refurbished console for €160 which is an out of warranty service Sony offer their customers.

norrie rugger

foggy_lad wrote: »

ok at what stage is the small claims court at?

it really would help if you did a step by step of what you have done from the start like
1/went to smyths with broken console,
2/ they refused to do anything stating warranty was only one year,
3/ etc etc

but afaik the story so far,(correct me if i am way off the mark)
you would originally have returned to smyths with the console and told them it is faulty and should last longer than 28months? but they told you the warranty period of one year was well past and you were entitled to nothing??

you tell them you have rights to repair replace or refund from smyths as they are the retailer whom you have a contract with!? and you have NO contract with Sony but they are having none of it so you prepare a case for the small claims court and submit your claim? you include details of other electronic equipment you own that has lasted up to 21 years and is in good condition which shows that it is unlikely to be a fault from misuse

have smyths rejected your claim in the SCC claiming that the warranty(sony warranty) has expired?

do they then claim to the small claims court that as it worked for 28 months then stopped you must have done something to it to affect performance?

do smyths also claim you have not proved that it is a manufacturing fault?


this post has nothing to do with it as you bought nothing from sony and their warranty does not apply to you!!!

I made a little cock up with the quote. I have sony on the mind now, that should have been quoted as Smyths response

That was Smyths response to the SCC registrar's letter, to them, so basically everything that you state has been the progress so far.

so yeah, went to store I bought from and got no joy there. Contacted their Customer Support by phone, again no joy. Emailled them my grevience and finally ended up persuing the claim in SCC.

The abouve misquoted response is the response that the small claims sent me, asking me to counter it in writing.
I do not understand the ins and outs enough to do this with any confidence.
So it is currently still with the registrar, awaiting my counter to the SMYTHS response.

Sory for the quotation balls up

foggy_lad

I dispute the claim because the console is 31 months old.

sale of goods act allows for up to 6 years and a console costing €400 should last 5-7 years if not mistreated.

The Warranty covers the console for 12 months against manufacturing faults. Therefore it is 19 months outside of the warranty

this is a manufacturer warranty nothing to do with statutory rights which afford the consumer more protection!

The claimant hasn't verified that the fault present is indeed a manufacturing fauly of the console. We feel that the console worked for 28 months perfectly and something must have happened to affect the performance.

the product has developed a fault because it is "not reasonably durable" and as such is not fit for its intended purpose of playing games and lasting for a number of years.

We feel that this is a non-manufacturing fault so therefore we cannot replace the console free of charge. We are happy to offer a replacement refurbished console for €160 which is an out of warranty service Sony offer their customers.

of course it is a manufacturing fault/defect as the console is not reasonably durable so as to last a reasonlble time without developing serious faults.

the sale of goods act allows for your product to be fit for purpose for a reasonable time given its use the cost and other factors, smyths are just trying to claim it is your own fault it is brokem because you were using it!

foggy_lad

Originally Posted by Smyth's
Hello NR,

Thank you for your e-mail.

Our apologies for the delayed response to your query. During this time we have investigated this for you. This has been discussed this with our Software Head Buyers, Sony as well as the Blanchardstown Store Manager.

their software head buyers and sony have nothing to do with your contract with smyths store in blanchardstown!

In Smyth’s Toy Stores, all software consoles/hardware are covered for 30 days directly with us and for one year with the manufacturer, unless otherwise stated. This means that if manufacturing problems arise within 30 days, Smyth’s will either repair/replace/refund within 30 days of the item being purchased, provided that the fault is a manufacturing fault. Outside of this 1 month period we offer our customers a refurbished unit, assuming the customer has not voided their warranty. Outside of the year guarantee, the alternative we offer our customers is to purchase a refurbished console at a set charge.

this is illegal as it detracts from your statutory rights which offer you repair replacement or refund for up to six years after purchase.

At this time the offer of a refurbished console for the set charge of €160 is still available to you. This is a service that we offer to our customers who are outside of their warranty period or if the fault is not covered under warranty (i.e. if it’s a non-manufacturing fault).

they are threatening that if you continue looking for more you may end up with nothing!

The yellow light fault indicator is not a specific fault; it is an indication that there is a problem with the console. The claims made on online forums and website have been widely disputed, including the allegations made on the Watchdog report.

waffle waffle waffle indication of a problem with the console so you send it back to smyths for repair replacement or refund!

Your console worked for 30 months without any problems; so we feel that something must have happened within that time to cause a failure. The reason why we only offer 1 year guarantee is that we feel should a fault occur outside of this time; it is a non-manufacturing fault.

the fault occurred and as such is covered by your statutory rights! the one year warranty is illegal as it takes from your statutory rights!

A non-manufacturing fault is something which is not an inherent fault of the product or a manufacturing flaw. Some of the possible causes would be due to accidental damage, negligence, abuse or misuse (including, without limitation, failure to use this product for its normal purpose and / or in accordance with instructions) or storage in an unsuitable atmosphere (eg: in a dusty area, humid or unventilated area).

usually though these faults occur due to the product or materials used in the product not being reasonably durable! consoles are stored usually beside or under the television they are connected to and these areas can be dusty and as such the console must be fit for use in its normal environment!

It has not been verified to either us the retailer, with whom your contract remains, or the manufacturer that the fault present is indeed a manufacturing fault. The burden proof is on the customer to proof this outside of the 6months after purchase.

bull!!! there is no burdon of proof after any time! the customer has a non working console which they state and claim is faulty. the retailer is obliged to stand over what they have sold and provide after sales care for a reasonable time so it is up to the retailer to send the unit off for testing evaluation etc and get reports either proving customer damage or faults due to workmanship design etc

Our obligations as a retailer are to provide you, the consumer, with a form of redress where they have an issue redressed with the product they have purchased. This can take the form of offering repair, refund or replacement. The retailer is not obliged to let the consumer choose which method of redress is offered, and the retailer does not have to be the direct provider of the redress.

but the retailer can NOT direct the consumer to deal exclusively with any third party! the consumer can insist on dealing exclusively with the retailer and as such can insist on sending a ps3 into the store to be sent back to sony instead of the store forcing the customer to send the ps3 back to sony themselves!

If issues arise and we direct you to the manufacturers’ care line, this is seen as a perfectly acceptable means of redressing the issue you have with your product. Should you wish to contact Sony yourself directly, their number is 0818 365 065 or alternatively you can log onto their website www.ie.playstation.com.

seen by smyths as perfectly acceptable but not acceptable by law! customers can insist on dealing solely and exclusively with smyths in all matters pertaining to the product they have purchased!

We trust that you now understand the reason that we cannot offer you a refund or a replacement free of charge at this time. We would like to clarify that we are indeed redressing your query, by offering a replacement at a small charge. This is at a charge because, as of yet it has not been verified to us that there is a manufacturing fault present.

we are riding roughshod all over your statutory rights and dont care as we will force you and all that follow you through the courts as far as we can if it means we can avoid dealing with faulty goods that we have sold!

We trust that this letter clarifies our warranty cover, store procedures and the reasons that we cannot offer you this replacement free of charge at this time.

We regret to inform you that we are unable to pursue this matter further or reverse the decision made for the reasons above.

Our apologies for any inconvenience or disappointment that this may cause,

Regards,
xxxxx

just make sure you have a copy of this letter from smyths with you in court! thay have robbed you of your rights in this letter! they claim you only have a years warranty and after that you must pay for repairs or that you must prove the console has a munufacturing fault. a load of lies and waffle from smyths!


smyths are trying to put the blame for the fault onto you and all the time ignoring your rights by saying you only have limited warranty and no other recourse, and they also put the onus on you to prove a fault but the fault is proven by the console not working and by you claiming you have never mistreated it, so unless they want to sit in front of a SCC judge and call you a liar to your face and also tell you you dont have statutory rights you need not wrry too much about their letter.