RTE Announce FTA Saorsat service

eh2010

Is this available now? What do I have to do to pick it up?

The Cush

eh2010 wrote: »

Is this available now? What do I have to do to pick it up?

Not yet. Maybe May/June if everyting goes to plan.

Satellite still in testing mode following Christmas launch.

Apogee

I had a look today at Ka-band on Ka-Sat and I found diddly squat. Data transponders on 13E are fairly easy to pick out, but not a blip at 9E.

watty

They could be testing spots in Germany or Italy and you would get nothing here.

Apogee

Yeah, but you might expect to see a blank carrier or something. They usually whack them out at full power too for the Ku-band sats in the testing period.

scottie001

Hi guys, quick question that I hope anyone out there can clarify... I recently bought a Ross HD Satellite Receiver from B&Q.. While it gets all the U.K. channels, it also gets the Irish ones too but they are encrypted.. I heard awhile back that RTE was supposed to be going FTA this year.. If that's true, when is it happening and how would I get those channels on my receiver?? Thanks in advance for any answers....

The Cush

scottie001 wrote: »

Hi guys, quick question that I hope anyone out there can clarify... I recently bought a Ross HD Satellite Receiver from B&Q.. While it gets all the U.K. channels, it also gets the Irish ones too but they are encrypted.. I heard awhile back that RTE was supposed to be going FTA this year.. If that's true, when is it happening and how would I get those channels on my receiver?? Thanks in advance for any answers....

Different dish, LNB and receiver will be required with the dish pointing at a different position in the sky - expected to be the Ka-Sat satellite at 9 deg. east. The encrypted channels can only be received if you subscribe to Sky.

The FTA service called Saorsat hasn't launched yet and there is no official information. It may start May/June if all goes to plan.

This thread was started when the Saorsat plan was announced last July, plenty of discussion about the reasons for it.

http://www.saortv.info/satellite-saorsat/
http://www.techtir.ie/saortv/saorsat

scottie001

Thanks Cush for the quick reply.... So basically what you're saying is that I'll need to buy more equipment to get the Irish channels?? Now, I have an HD tv with a DVB-T built in.. I can get the Irish channels if I plug an ariel booster into the coax socket, but I get nothing if I switch over to the DTV..Picture isn't great with the booster and zero without it... My guess is the MPEG is different?? Trust Ireland to be different... Why can't they just unlock it for a FTA Sat box?? If I can get the UK channels, why not the other way round.. Must be a rights issue.. Daft though...

The Cush

scottie001 wrote: »

Thanks Cush for the quick reply.... So basically what you're saying is that I'll need to buy more equipment to get the Irish channels?? Now, I have an HD tv with a DVB-T built in.. I can get the Irish channels if I plug an ariel booster into the coax socket, but I get nothing if I switch over to the DTV..Picture isn't great with the booster and zero without it... My guess is the MPEG is different?? Trust Ireland to be different... Why can't they just unlock it for a FTA Sat box?? If I can get the UK channels, why not the other way round.. Must be a rights issue.. Daft though...

What is the model no. of your TV? Do you have an aerial? Aerial booster?

External aerial is always the best but if you're in a strong signal area you may get away with an attic or indoor aerial.

egal

Your Ross HD satellite receiver (with correct dish and LNB) may be able to pick up the KA-Sat signals when they start so don't throw it out yet . Watty will know.

watty

No MHEG5 on the Ross. You also need Diseqc.

I'd not buy a Ross, but Technisat, Humax or other "proper" Freesat HD with Interactive, MHEG5, Freesat EPG. (Ross has none of these).

Some "Freesat HD" boxes don't do Diseqc, so a manual Satellite LNB IF cable switch would be required to swap Freesat <-> Saorsat channel reception.

All Freeview HD and Freesat HD stuff does MHEG5, HE-AAC and MPEG4, all of which Irish Services use. In addition Freesat has it's own methods of retuning channels automatically, Interactive with video in it (MHEG5 + something else), EPG and Series Link for PVR (Ross does none of these). Irish System uses Nordig 2.2 compatible signalling for PVR series link. No idea if that's compatible with "Freeview HD" (Saorview) or "Freesat HD" (Saorsat).

Carter P Fly

What about getting epg data into the likes of Windows media Center? I already have a S2 card and a diseqc 4 way switch of which two are used from two dishes?

Im wondering if microsoft will even update their setup info to know about this satellite!!!

watty

DVBviewer can do Freesat EPG (I don't know how it does).

Saorsat EPG is likely DVB-EIT, like Saorview, that works on Win7 MC and just about every set-box and PC application inc DVBViewer, ProgDVB, DVBdream, etc...

You need a Ka-Band linear polarised LNB or LNBF for the appropriate part of band (we don't know exact band yet).

Carter P Fly

Ta!!

Waiting for official reccomendations on LNB's/dish requirements before investing in additional hardware but Im pretty excited to be finally able to get RTE on sat!!!

scottie001

Thanks for the replies guys, appreciate the info.... Cush, I have a Prestigio 32" HD Ready LCD TV with inbuilt DVB-T tuner.. I don't have an ariel, just a mains-powered booster... Watty, could you clarify for me please, what is MHEG5?? The Ross receiver is an HDR-8130USB model... Mainly bought it for the HD Uk channels (And gives a great pic..), and it was cheap in B&Q Galway.. On the old Sky dish it's hooked into I have an LNB with 4 connections on it... I have an old SelfSat receiver with Diseqc sticker on the front... I take it that means it can control a motor to turn the dish? I still have the original square dish that came with the SelfSat system 3 years ago.... Seems awkward how here in Ireland a UK system won't work.. Thought there was supposed to be a European Standard for all this stuff.... Or is just RTE wanting to be different from the UK?! Really don't want to fork out to be able to watch RTE on a box just made for Ireland... when Sky is a rip-off and probably I won't be able to use the Irish box in Scotland!!! Apologies for the rambling....

watty

The Ross is a generic box. More suitable for German FTA TV. It lacks many features that Sky or Freesat Boxes have for UK Satellite Tv.

MHEG is an engine, like Java, or Davik or how Apple iOS apps are run. Freeview, Freesat, and Saorview use MHEG for what ever applications the Broadcaster downloads via dish or aerial. The Application then uses received data from Transmission.

Newer forms of Text to replace old Teletext use MHEG. Sky uses OpenTV instead of MHEG5.

Saorview uses the exact same MHEG5 version as UK. But otherwise it's a Scandinavian Standard (link), Nordig 2.2 (The basic European DVB-T and DVB-S spec is too generic, Nordig and the UK D-Book (secret) which defines Freeview and Freesat spell out how to do missing details). RTE decided having a Chair on a body publishing a Standard (Nordig) already supported by a handful of Countries as enhancement to DVB, was better than applying to Join the D-Book (we don't even know if it was possible for RTE to do other than adopt it, like a Manufacturer that signs the NDA and buys a licence to implement.)

The rest of Nordig specify MHP for middleware, but Ireland exempts from that and substitutes the UK MHEG5 middleware.

See spec bottom of page. http://www.rtenl.ie/broadcast/saorview-digital-television.html

There is no reason yet to suspect that Saorsat is any other than Nordig 2.2 and UK MHEG5 UK profile simply applied to DVB-S2 (satellite) instead of DVB-T (Terrestrial, Saorview).

UK D-Book/Freeview
DVB based.
DVB-T only MPEG2 SD
DVB-T2, MPEG4 HD and potentially MPEG4 SD
MHEG5 for middleware
Custom PVR series link (Freeview+ )
Freeview and Freeview HD are two separate systems, But "Freeview HD" systems must receive Freeview.

UK D-Book/Freesat
DVB based.
MPEG2, only DVB-S
MPEG4 HD, DVB-S and DVB-S2
MHEG5 for middleware
Custom non-DVB EPG
Custom non-DVB auto tuning
Custom non-DVB extension to MHEG5 for interactive Video
Custom PVR series link (Freesat+ )
Freesat and Freesat HD are two separate systems, But "Freesat HD" systems must receive Freesat.

Saorview
DVB based.
Nordig 2.2
Irish Transmission version is DVB-T only, but DVB-T2 receivers are allowed
No separate SD and HD systems like UK. Only one.
UK profile MHEG5.

EU Newer TVs (date?) more than 21cms are supposed to be DVB and have CI+ for a CAM. CI+ spec says TV must have MHEG5 and MHP.
Older TVs had to have CI.
CI+ standards body has recently joined DVB.

Completely DVB incompatible Digital
ATSC: North America and parts Central America
DMB-T/H: China
ISDB (1) : Japan. MPEG2
ISDB (2) : Brazillian version adapted from Japanese ISDB, Most of South America. Uses MPEG4


World wide
DVB (s = Satellite, c = cable, t= Terrestrial, h=handheld)
Everyone uses DVB-c or DVB-c2 for cable. Even Cable Broadband uses DVB-c for downlink
Most countries use DVB-S and DVB-S2 for satellite, but USA has a 2nd partially incompatible system (DirecTV).
DVB-T, Everyone not using ATSC, DMB or either version of ISDB
UK is first user of DVB-T2, December 2009. South Africa will be first with DVB-T2 only.

As Irish Rollout commenced in December 2007 (really!) we adopted MPEG4 + DVB-T as DVB-T2 didn't really exist then. MPEG2 was already obsolete, as MPEG4 allows twice the channels or more at same quality and is needed for HD.

Countries where DVB-T2 is in use include:

* United Kingdom: one multiplex, soft launch in December 2009, full launch in April 2010
* Italy: one multiplex, soft launch in October 2010
* Sweden: two multiplexes, full launch in November 2010
* Finland: five multiplexes, soft launch in January 2011, full launch in February 2011

The Southern African Development Community announced in November 2010 that DVB-T2 would be the preferred standard for the region. In Serbia, both SD and HD broadcasts will air in DVB-T2.

It has been trialled in Spain and Germany. Austria is also expected to use it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DVB-T2
All DVB-T2 receivers do DVB-T and MPEG4.
Only Set-box or TV with CI+ or intended for an MHEG5 market have MHEG5. (Mandatory for Ireland).

So nothing odd about what we have.

The Cush

scottie001 wrote: »

Thanks for the replies guys, appreciate the info.... Cush, I have a Prestigio 32" HD Ready LCD TV with inbuilt DVB-T tuner.. I don't have an ariel, just a mains-powered booster...

The TV with DVB-T tuner must also have an MPEG-4 video decoder (not MPEG-2) to work with Irish DTT (check the specs in the manual). An aerial is required to receive a signal, it may not need a booster.

See this RTÉNL brochure and FAQ.

Apogee

I still haven't come across a reliable, cheap source of WR-42 Ka-LNBs or Ka-LNBFs. So in interim, testing a Hughesnet Ka LNB (bottom) + DIY feedhorn and Wildblue Ka-transceiver (top).



The transceiver requires 22V for Rx and 30V for Tx, but I only have 22V PSU. Anyway, squirting 22V into Tx port brings it to life.

Pic of 13E spectrum with two TPs - not the best quality but I was holding the transceiver in my hand at the time. It weighs a tonne so no way of easily affixing it to a standard dish.

dbcool

dont worry - i know of a large uk order in a korean factory to supply ka band lnbs with ordinary 40m collars - fitting on standard solid dishes - and i'll be getting my hands on plenty of them soon - i'll let you know more when they arrive.

Apogee

Not sure how much info you're able to disclose, but is this company placing the order in anticipation of Saorsat or for some other intended use?

watty

I heard a mention of 20,000 LNBFs. But I don't know if this is same story or just rumour. It wasn't a UK order though.

Who in UK would be ordering Ka LNBFs?

Chuck Stone

I don't really speak your langauge guys but I have a couple of questions I would really appreciate an answer to.

1.Will RTE + TV3 be broadcast by sat to Ireland (Cork City) if so when?

2. Will I be able to recieve them alongside the freesat UK channels or will two dishes and two set top boxes be needed?

Apogee

1. Our best guess is that all the channels on Saorview will also be carried on sat - even to Cork!

2. One dish, with two feedhorns/LNBFs at 28E for Freesat and 9E for Ka-Sat can be connected to the one receiver using a Diseqc switch.

watty

Skellig to Rathlin, Malin to Wexford. The whole Island. May need larger dish in North East Antrim.

A second dish or a suitable solid dish with multi LNBF feed as Apogee says.

No-one will say exact power levels yet, so we don't know the exact size dish.

Any receiver for Freesat and Saorsat should be a "Freesat HD" with Diseqc software as MHEG5, feed switching, MPEG4, HD and DVB-S2 are all needed.

That's not to say that it will be entirely user friendly to use the Irish channels on some boxes.

ISAA

watty wrote: »

I heard a mention of 20,000 LNBFs. But I don't know if this is same story or just rumour. It wasn't a UK order though.

Who in UK would be ordering Ka LNBFs?

AVANTI ?

Regards,

watty

They are only using Ka for VSAT, and Hughes is partnering with them. They wouldn't be using 400m neck LNBFs, only waveguide mounted LNBs? They might be using standalone LNBFs for the Ku on the Hylas1, but even there on Ku, a lot of the capacity is for two way video links.

A puzzler.

dbcool

watty wrote: »

I heard a mention of 20,000 LNBFs. But I don't know if this is same story or just rumour. It wasn't a UK order though.

Who in UK would be ordering Ka LNBFs?

hi - i would be ordering thru the uk - im in belfast - but my contact is a very well know satellite company in the uk and they are using their exisiting factory in korea to build them -
i've done it because saorsat wil be huge in ni - and im sure i can sell plenty to the south as well.

yes our lnbs will be able to fit on any standard dish - enabling retro fit for most customers - but agin - you must use a solid dish not a mesh dish due to rain fade.

btw not avanti.

watty

The holes are too big and rough on mesh or perforated dishes. It's not about the rain fade.

STB

dbcool wrote: »

hi - i would be ordering thru the uk - im in belfast - but my contact is a very well know satellite company in the uk and they are using their exisiting factory in korea to build them -
i've done it because saorsat wil be huge in ni - and im sure i can sell plenty to the south as well.

yes our lnbs will be able to fit on any standard dish - enabling retro fit for most customers - but agin - you must use a solid dish not a mesh dish due to rain fade.

btw not avanti.

The UK "satellite" company you are talking about is a retailer ? Hisat ?

And if they are coming from Korea, then their source is likely to be OEM Atron, who also have a presence in Dublin.

Apogee

The lastest Saorview FAQ is somewhat coy on RTÉ going FTA on sat and studiously avoids mentioning the word 'Saorsat'. However, it apparently is still on track for mid to late 2011.

RT&#201 wrote: »

RTENL is currently in the process of developing a Free-To-Air satellite solution which would make it possible for all Irish broadcasters to reach every home in Ireland via satellite. The extent that the coverage may or may not extend over Northern Ireland will be confirmed during testing in the coming months. RTÉNL hope to be in a position to make more information publicly available about this possible new service in midmid to late 2011.

http://www.rtenl.ie/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/RTENL%20SAORVIEW%20FAQs%20March%202011%20Rev%202_0.pdf