Love/Hate [** Spoilers **]

Ash.J.Williams

Happyman42 wrote: »

He was driving around the city openly in episode one and frequenting known haunts like the brothel. 'Paranoia'? Sitting in a hospital carpark with his window rolled down?
I think the poster has a point, he immediately went to the prostitutes house after the hospital and said he was a bit paranoid and needed to lie low, that was a fairly sudden descent into paranoia, why was he not hiding out before that? We seen him sitting at home with the kid and wife.

he was paranoid in the last series too....he's a paranoid guy

AnonoBoy

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

he was paranoid in the last series too....he's a paranoid guy

But then again people are trying to kill him so he's kinda right to be paranoid.

Happyman42

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

he was paranoid in the last series too....he's a paranoid guy

So what sparked his decision to suddenly seek a safe house and ask the young fella not to talk of his whereabouts among locals?

Ash.J.Williams

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Jaysus will ya get off your high horse, he drove to the hospital with the the distinct intention of going into see his mother (why else would he drive there otherwise), then wouldn't get out, drove out and stared directly at Lizzie and the young lad as he went....so much so that she dived out of the way to avert her face....

yes we all saw that...but until we see evidence, there is no evidence that he saw them

sirgockster

Gangsters jump from safe house to safe house all the time and they even use their own house from time to time, It's not hard to believe

Ash.J.Williams

Happyman42 wrote: »

So what sparked his decision to suddenly seek a safe house and ask the young fella not to talk of his whereabouts among locals?

being arrested, potential rats, pressure.

AnonoBoy

Happyman42 wrote: »

So what sparked his decision to suddenly seek a safe house and ask the young fella not to talk of his whereabouts among locals?

Was it not the fact that he thought Elmo had talked?

BuilderPlumber

sirgockster wrote: »

Many seem to find it difficult to believe that the Gardai are involved, It was always going to be a slower pace, This series is all about the Gardai bringing down the gang, It's not rocket science that it will be slower, I'm enjoying the slower pace because when the s.hit hits the fan in the next 4 episodes it will make the wait even more worth while, You can't have someone like Darren going around shooting everyone in every episode

Nidge is the main target of both the CIRA and the Gardai in this series. Some of the interesting developments are the extended role of the good and bad cops. The corrupt cop was a regular in season 2 (remember John Boy beating him up in the park!) and detective Moynihan seems to know exactly what's going on with him.

Darren was a great character. He was driven by revenge for all of series 1 and 2. By series 3, he was estranged from his family and girlfriend. In series 3 and 4, the revenge storyline remains and it is Dano and Lizzie (and probably Nidge: as said, I predict cat killler Wayne will become child killer Wayne when he shoots Nidge's son at the communion) who are consumed by revenge.

Happyman42

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Was it not the fact that he thought Elmo had talked?

So he drove to the hospital in his own car and sat there for a long period? Not very believable imo, the first thing to do would have been to lose a fairly recognisable car ...no? Anyway, just another inconsistency here, I don't think they were being ambiguous (which is a good thing and entertaining), it's just needlessly unclear on a lot of key plot points.

Ash.J.Williams

Happyman42 wrote: »

So he drove to the hospital in his own car and sat there for a long period? Not very believable imo, the first thing to do would have been to lose a fairly recognisable car ...no? Anyway, just another inconsistency here, I don't think they were being ambiguous (which is a good thing and entertaining), it's just needlessly unclear on a lot of key plot points.

i don't think so...if they have to spell out everything than what's the point in having a mind of our own.

Happyman42

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

i don't think so...if they have to spell out everything than what's the point in having a mind of our own.

Inconsistency is not the same as ambiguity, to my mind!

P.Walnuts

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

yes we all saw that...but until we see evidence, there is no evidence that he saw them

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

i don't think so...if they have to spell out everything than what's the point in having a mind of our own.

:rolleyes:

AnonoBoy

Happyman42 wrote: »

So he drove to the hospital in his own car and sat there for a long period? Not very believable imo, the first thing to do would have been to lose a fairly recognisable car ...no? Anyway, just another inconsistency here, I don't think they were being ambiguous (which is a good thing and entertaining), it's just needlessly unclear on a lot of key plot points.

I honestly love that you've stayed with this thread throughout the seasons.

raven136

Happyman42 wrote: »

So what sparked his decision to suddenly seek a safe house and ask the young fella not to talk of his whereabouts among locals?

The fact that one of his gang now has the brain of a tulip and locked up
Another was released and as far as Nidge is concerned he is a rat
His main man was arrested again
His empire is not as secure
He isnt quite sure that the IRA still want him dead or not
And the fact that you know as a criminal lord he kinda needs to keep his whereabouts unknown
He is also well known to be paranoid as it is


I really enjoyed last nights episode and think its great to see the detectives.
For those saying that its a wire rip off....its hard not to borrow from other good shows when dealing with the same idea's i.e drug gangs and the cops taking them down

Its not Darren it misses imo,but John Boy,he was a great actor in the show and I always felt it was a huge mistake by the writers to kill him off

slingerz

anyone else think they moved on and glossed over the murder of darren pretty sharpish? i mean there has been no mention of him in the first 2 episodes barring Nidge pulling up at the graveside a couple of times. i mean Nidge surely knows that it wasnt his boys that got Darren so it must have been the RA

Birneybau

Recognise the singer?

Ash.J.Williams

slingerz wrote: »

anyone else think they moved on and glossed over the murder of darren pretty sharpish? i mean there has been no mention of him in the first 2 episodes barring Nidge pulling up at the graveside a couple of times. i mean Nidge surely knows that it wasnt his boys that got Darren so it must have been the RA

not really....how long would it take lizzie to grow a decent head of hair? 6 months or more? looks like it's been a year

Ash.J.Williams

Birneybau wrote: »

Recognise the singer?

well would ya look at that!

Ash.J.Williams

P.Walnuts wrote: »

:rolleyes:

good man!

fiacha

P.Walnuts wrote: »

The cop angle is extremely poor, acting is awful and it's like they prepped the it by watching a couple episodes of The Wire....cringey overall and in danger of ruining the show. I can see why they wanted to expand on a successful formula, but its just not believable thus far.

I'm hating the Garda angle on this. I know we've only seen one episode with the new "unit", but so far the acting, dialog and scenes are very poor.
I think they would be better off with a more traditional "professional" portrayal of the detectives, rather than the Starsky and Hutch ****e we've seen so far. I just hope Nidge doesn't have one of them lifted and addicted to heroin overnight
The writers have also lifted so much from the Wire* that's it impossible not to cringe every time they try to make the Gardai look gritty.

There are plenty of capers and comedy from Nidges lads without having to try so hard with the Garda characters.


I thought the new season opened well, and I like the developments on the gangs side but I hope the season isn't going to be ruined by the poorly written Garda characters.

*I know there is very little that hasn't been done by some other show, but I think the Wire is the only one to get it right.

P.Walnuts

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

good man!

Well you did directly contradict yourself in the space of a page in order to suit your own argument, so think the rollseyes was justified to be honest!

ncmc

slingerz wrote: »

anyone else think they moved on and glossed over the murder of darren pretty sharpish? i mean there has been no mention of him in the first 2 episodes barring Nidge pulling up at the graveside a couple of times. i mean Nidge surely knows that it wasnt his boys that got Darren so it must have been the RA

Of course he knows it was the Ra, he gave them Darren’s name, I presume he thinks that Dano didn’t wait for Nidge to take care of Darren and got one of his own lads to do it.

Based on the date entered into Pulse last week by the bouncer/Garda, it’s April, so that would make it 10 months or so since Darren was shot. Giving Lizzie time to grow her hair, Tommy’s scars to heal etc.

I don’t think Nidge saw Lizzie and Wayne in the hospital car park. I think he just got a feeling that something wasn’t right, that and the fact that he is massively paranoid. Come to think of it, has he ever met Lizzie, I don’t think they ever met in season 3? He could have looked right at her and not known who she was.

I absolutely loved last nights episode, it’s slowly ramping up the tension without any significant violence actually taking place. If anyone follows Boardwalk Empire, the penultimate episode of the last series was some of the finest television I have ever seen, very little action actually happened, but it was slowly building the tension to a degree when I as a viewer felt I could hardly breath! The final episode was a blood bath and it was nowhere near as good. I think this series of Love/Hate is the same, the beauty of it is in the building of tension rather than bam bam murder all the time.

fiacha

AnonoBoy wrote: »

Was it not the fact that he thought Elmo had talked?

Nidge is paranoid as f*uck and seeing people coming at him from all angles. He knows the Gardai and Dano are after him, and now he has Tommy and Elmo to worry about.

I got the impression that he hadn't been in the family house for a long time. He can't stay away from women for long, so shacking up with the madam away from the brothel is new home away from home. I'm convinced little Nidge will be his downfall and not the CAB or IRA

Happyman42

raven136 wrote: »

The fact that one of his gang now has the brain of a tulip and locked up
Another was released and as far as Nidge is concerned he is a rat
His main man was arrested again
His empire is not as secure
He isnt quite sure that the IRA still want him dead or not
And the fact that you know as a criminal lord he kinda needs to keep his whereabouts unknown
He is also well known to be paranoid as it is

The conversation was about whether he had seen the gunwoman or not. I think the original poster had a point as Nidge 'suddenly' got paranoid/more paranoid(whatever) than usual, directly after that scene.
And he simply hasn't been keeping his 'whereabouts' unknown, his paranoia is inconsistent...simple point, eg: Somebody who is paranoid about the cops for instance and an iminent arrest would not turn up openly at a court session packed with cops, so we have to assume that his current bout of paranoia is about a hit. Given that he was relaxing a few scenes earlier at his home with his wife and child you would have to assume that his current bout of paranoia was suddenly sparked by an incident...like spotting somebody watching him in a hospital carpark?

P.Walnuts

Happyman42 wrote: »

The conversation was about whether he had seen the gunwoman or not. I think the original poster had a point as Nidge 'suddenly' got paranoid/more paranoid(whatever) than usual, directly after that scene.
And he simply hasn't been keeping his 'whereabouts' unknown, his paranoia is inconsistent...simple point, eg: Somebody who is paranoid about the cops for instance and an iminent arrest would not turn up openly at a court session packed with cops, so we have to assume that his current bout of paranoia is about a hit. Given that he was relaxing a few scenes earlier at his home with his wife and child you would have to assume that his current bout of paranoia was suddenly sparked by an incident...like spotting somebody watching him in a hospital carpark?

Pretty much my thinking..although it can be even more straightforward if you think...

What on earth was the point of the shot of Nidge driving by an looking directly at them if not to indicate he knew they were watching him?

I mean that scene had to be there for a reason, in what other context would that shot be neccessary?

AnonoBoy

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Pretty much my thinking..although it can be even more straightforward if you think...

What on earth was the point of the shot of Nidge driving by an looking directly at them if not to indicate he knew they were watching him?

I mean that scene had to be there for a reason, in what other context would that shot be neccessary?

I think he spotted them - but not until he was driving away.

Ash.J.Williams

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

not really....how long would it take lizzie to grow a decent head of hair? 6 months or more? looks like it's been a year

Funnily enough i notice there is a hint of the bite marks still on Elmo's face yet there wasn't a mark on Fran or the other guy who hammered the sh*t out of each other

Ah still though ill overlook the small imperfections due to it being outweighed by the brilliance of the show.

sirgockster

Do people on this thread watch the show? A few of the questions would be answered if you watched carefully, Nidge handed himself in, We never see him been questioned, We just see him been let go, He turned up at the courts after his questioning so he is not worried about been arrested but he knows they are after him

Maybe Nidge should stay in the attic for the rest of the series, It would not make for a good drama though

Shout Dust

Shout Dust wrote: »

I thought it was a bit stupid the way the undercover cops were parading through the main station where all the criminals are questioned, and then even went in to question Elmo.

They arent undercover though id imagine except Gavin who was reluctant to go into the interview room and let Terry in with the other lad. I reckon Gavin will try infiltrate them.

Happyman42

sirgockster wrote: »

Do people on this thread watch the show? A few of the questions would be answered if you watched carefully, Nidge handed himself in, We never see him been questioned, We just see him been let go, He turned up at the courts after his questioning so he is not worried about been arrested but he knows they are after him

Maybe Nidge should stay in the attic for the rest of the series, It would not make for a good drama though

It's clear to me that he is suddenly worried about an imminent hit. The events at the hospital being the reason.
I think a lot of the reasons for the misunderstanding of the plot comes from something I mentioned earlier - TVL's inability to show what is happening to him internally, it's just a dumb scowl all the time. Charlie Murphy, on the other hand keeps giving masterclasses in this, such as when cop gives her the card with his number.