Love/Hate [** Spoilers **]

bazermc

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I was actually wondering about this man and also the father of the tiger kidnap family and whether they would feature again. Every character is in there for a reason I know.

Exactly, why was this guy in eposide 5 and what job does Nidge want him to do. This scene was specfically included for a reason. Perhaps Nidge does not trust Dean and/or Fran with the shipment of drugs due in to Andrews warehouse

I guess all will be revealed on Sunday

BuilderPlumber

bazermc wrote: »

Exactly, why was this guy in eposide 5 and what job does Nidge want him to do. This scene was specfically included for a reason. Perhaps Nidge does not trust Dean and/or Fran with the shipment of drugs due in to Andrews warehouse

I guess all will be revealed on Sunday

According to the RTE guide,

Nidge cuts Fran out of the deal the last minute!

stickybookmark

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

I guess Nidge did not sacrifice Tommy for several reasons: his guilt about what he did to Tommy, Siobhan being his niece, the IRA would find it too convenient that Tommy actually did it, the fact that it actually was Darren who did ultimately kill Git and also the fact that Tommy was already in a coma (and perhaps assumed dead) and yet the IRA were still demanding someone. I'm sure they guessed Tommy would have been involved but Darren was the hitman and had to be involved?

I don't buy that being anything to do with it, it doesn't fit in with Nidge's character that he would give that much of a sh!t about his niece's partner. I mean the fact that he was Siobhan's partner didn't stop him from beating him into a coma did it?! Plus Tommy was as good as dead at that stage, so letting the RA finish him off wouldn't have had a major affect on Siobhán. Only thing is, it would be difficult to arrange a hit on a guy who's in a hospital bed I suppose? But that would have been the RA's problem to solve.
And I also don't think Nidge did it becasue Darren actually did kill Git, that's basically saying that Nidge concerns himself with telling the truth? He does in his ****! Tony had no way of independenly verifying who killed Git (as there was no body and no evidence), and Nidge knew that. Therefore Nidge had his pick of people to tell Tony that killed Git, so he chose the one that he wanted to get rid of. So he had some reason for choosing Darren.

stickybookmark

paulbok wrote: »

Agree, Nidge had just put Tommy in the coma. It would have made perfect sense to tell the ra that it was him which would have been mostly true, have them finish Tommy off (thus saving him the potential for Tommy recovering and taking revenge) and also (but probably why the writers didn't go down this route) not have to have Darren killed.

I've a feeling this might have been the reason why - anyone know if the actor that plays Darren wanted to leave?

I wish they'd explore this one a bit more, like I know they show Nidge driving up and guiltly looking at Darren's grave etc, but they never reveal why he decided to give up his best hitman and friend to the RA instead of the (at that stage) brain dead Tommy - after all Tony knew that Siobhán had been raped (he would have found out from the guards) and so it would be perfectly plausible to him that Tommy had killed Git in revenge for this.

BuilderPlumber

stickybookmark wrote: »

I don't buy that being anything to do with it, it doesn't fit in with Nidge's character that he would give that much of a sh!t about his niece's partner. I mean the fact that he was Siobhan's partner didn't stop him from beating him into a coma did it?! Plus Tommy was as good as dead at that stage, so letting the RA finish him off wouldn't have had a major affect on Siobhán. Only thing is, it would be difficult to arrange a hit on a guy who's in a hospital bed I suppose? But that would have been the RA's problem to solve.
And I also don't think Nidge did it becasue Darren actually did kill Git, that's basically saying that Nidge concerns himself with telling the truth? He does in his ****! Tony had no way of independenly verifying who killed Git (as there was no body and no evidence), and Nidge knew that. Therefore Nidge had his pick of people to tell Tony that killed Git, so he chose the one that he wanted to get rid of. So he had some reason for choosing Darren.

Nidge has a conscience (that is part of his character) but the main reason I think he would not give the IRA Tommy is it would cause much more hassle. His attack on Tommy was from anger/stress and it was not a typical Nidge response (but we have of course seen Nidge and now Fran this season in darker moments and they are capable of anything beyond their normal personas when vexed or cornered, and that's what makes them very very intriguing). He regretted the attack almost immediately afterwards and told Darren "he (Nidge) let himself down".

If Nidge had given Tommy to the IRA, he would have received 2 enemies in Siobhan and Darren immediately. He knew this. I think on his journey up to meet Tony, Nidge planned it all carefully and the Nidge Weasel knew how to take advantage of this situation to suit him best.

Even though he liked Darren and his conscience got the better of him at the end (he breaks down in front of Trish), Darren had businesswise become both a threat (Darren totally was sickened by Nidge's hitting of Tommy while Nidge did not like Darren's assassination of Elmo's cousin's girlfriend or his finishing off of Git) and a liability (the girl's assassination proved he was not capable of a clean hit). If Darren had survived, he could turn against Nidge and he could end up telling Siobhan about Tommy and could tell Fran about the pipe bomb. Simply put, Darren knew way too much and was not 100% trustworthy (e.g. his reckless behaviour at the IRA sing song in full view of Tony and Dano). Indeed, it would have made a great alternative season if Darren had survived Nidge's organised hit and Lizzie didn't get him (ironically, Lizzie saved Nidge's life perhaps!!!!).

Imhof Tank

stickybookmark wrote: »

I don't buy that being anything to do with it, it doesn't fit in with Nidge's character that he would give that much of a sh!t about his niece's partner. I mean the fact that he was Siobhan's partner didn't stop him from beating him into a coma did it?! Plus Tommy was as good as dead at that stage, so letting the RA finish him off wouldn't have had a major affect on Siobhán. Only thing is, it would be difficult to arrange a hit on a guy who's in a hospital bed I suppose? But that would have been the RA's problem to solve.
And I also don't think Nidge did it becasue Darren actually did kill Git, that's basically saying that Nidge concerns himself with telling the truth? He does in his ****! Tony had no way of independenly verifying who killed Git (as there was no body and no evidence), and Nidge knew that. Therefore Nidge had his pick of people to tell Tony that killed Git, so he chose the one that he wanted to get rid of. So he had some reason for choosing Darren.

True, Tony didn't know for sure who struck the fatal blow to Git, he did know for sure that Darren killed Paddy and shot at Dano. Darren was a dead man walking for that offence alone.

If Nidge had pinned Git on Tommy the gang would have been down 2 men instead of just the 1.

Moreover, in the situation he found himself in - with no way of knowing what Tony actually knew - I think Nidge did opt for the truth as the safest option (for him).

Dempsey

Strituck wrote: »

I just came across this while on Youtube. Hard to believe he is Nidge Weasel. Plays the part very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhprm5bD9ps

He should had done the acceptance speech in character, be a right laff! :pac:

BuilderPlumber

Imhof Tank wrote: »

True, Tony didn't know for sure who struck the fatal blow to Git, he did know for sure that Darren killed Paddy and shot at Dano. Darren was a dead man walking for that offence alone.

If Nidge had pinned Git on Tommy the gang would have been down 2 men instead of just the 1.

Moreover, in the situation he found himself in - with no way of knowing what Tony actually knew - I think Nidge did opt for the truth as the safest option (for him).

Of course, Tommy and Darren you could say killed Git. I'm sure the IRA knew by this stage that Git raped Siobhan and she was Tommy's girlfriend and Nidge's niece. To Dano, this meant that all killed Git in revenge but in fact Nidge was against the whole thing. Tony had lost interest in Dano's personal revenge (if he ever was interested) by early in the fourth series at least.

Git committed a rape and Tony certainly probably knew this and shed no tears. The killing of Paddy (Lizzie's brother) may have been different and Darren needed to be punished. Tony assumed this would please Dano and that would be the end of it.

But Darren as I already said posed an even graver threat to Nidge and Nidge knew this. Darren was disgusted with the attack on Tommy, Nidge did not like Darren's killing of Elmos cousin's girlfriend or his finishing off of Git, Darren had called Nidge an animal, and Darren was drunk, talking drugs and taunting Nidge at the IRA session in front of Tony and Dano (a fatal mistake as this had already built up an impression of disdain for Darren in Tony that Nidge could use). Hardly in Nidge's eyes the actions of a trustworthy lieutenant. Darren knew too much (he was there at the Tommy hitting and Nidge told Darren about the pipe bomb of Linda) and Nidge valued at the time Fran far more at this stage (it was Fran, not Darren who he confided in going to meet Tony). Darren's death gave Nidge a bit of time but all the secrets will come out next episode I'd say anyway and his death could be in vein.

Imhof Tank

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Of course, Tommy and Darren you could say killed Git. I'm sure the IRA knew by this stage that Git raped Siobhan and she was Tommy's girlfriend and Nidge's niece. To Dano, this meant that all killed Git in revenge but in fact Nidge was against the whole thing. Tony had lost interest in Dano's personal revenge (if he ever was interested) by early in the fourth series at least.

Git committed a rape and Tony certainly probably knew this and shed no tears. The killing of Paddy (Lizzie's brother) may have been different and Darren needed to be punished. Tony assumed this would please Dano and that would be the end of it.

But Darren as I already said posed an even graver threat to Nidge and Nidge knew this. Darren was disgusted with the attack on Tommy, Nidge did not like Darren's killing of Elmos cousin's girlfriend or his finishing off of Git, Darren had called Nidge an animal, and Darren was drunk, talking drugs and taunting Nidge at the IRA session in front of Tony and Dano (a fatal mistake as this had already built up an impression of disdain for Darren in Tony that Nidge could use). Hardly in Nidge's eyes the actions of a trustworthy lieutenant. Darren knew too much (he was there at the Tommy hitting and Nidge told Darren about the pipe bomb of Linda) and Nidge valued at the time Fran far more at this stage (it was Fran, not Darren who he confided in going to meet Tony). Darren's death gave Nidge a bit of time but all the secrets will come out next episode I'd say anyway and his death could be in vein.

Are you forgetting that Darren single handedly sprang Nidge out of the boot of Dano's car in a hail of gunfire? That was after the Tommy assault wasn't it?

morebarn2

stickybookmark wrote: »

I've a feeling this might have been the reason why - anyone know if the actor that plays Darren wanted to leave?

I wish they'd explore this one a bit more, like I know they show Nidge driving up and guiltly looking at Darren's grave etc, but they never reveal why he decided to give up his best hitman and friend to the RA instead of the (at that stage) brain dead Tommy - after all Tony knew that Siobhán had been raped (he would have found out from the guards) and so it would be perfectly plausible to him that Tommy had killed Git in revenge for this.

I remember reading a while ago that Robert Sheehan,who played Darren had originally only agreed to the first series, and a second one,if they got the go ahead for the 2nd series. He did not want to be typecast,should the show go on for a long period. He left the Misfits cast in the UK for the same reason.

Anyway,when they showed him the outline for Series 3,he liked it and went on for one more year. So I suppose the writers knew he was going to be written out around that time and the storyline was set in that direction.

BuilderPlumber

Imhof Tank wrote: »

Are you forgetting that Darren single handedly sprang Nidge out of the boot of Dano's car in a hail of gunfire? That was after the Tommy assault wasn't it?

Yes, this is true. And obviously despite his revulsion of Nidge's attack on Tommy, Darren still remained loyal to Nidge. But Nidge was not going to take the chance he would remain loyal. If Tommy had died and Darren had lived, who knows how Darren would react?

stickybookmark

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Nidge has a conscience (that is part of his character) but the main reason I think he would not give the IRA Tommy is it would cause much more hassle.

If Nidge had given Tommy to the IRA, he would have received 2 enemies in Siobhan and Darren immediately. He knew this. I think on his journey up to meet Tony, Nidge planned it all carefully and the Nidge Weasel knew how to take advantage of this situation to suit him best.

If Darren had survived, he could turn against Nidge and he could end up telling Siobhan about Tommy and could tell Fran about the pipe bomb. Simply put, Darren knew way too much and was not 100% trustworthy (e.g. his reckless behaviour at the IRA sing song in full view of Tony and Dano). Indeed, it would have made a great alternative season if Darren had survived Nidge's organised hit and Lizzie didn't get him (ironically, Lizzie saved Nidge's life perhaps!!!!).

Some good points here.

I still don't agree that Siobhán was anything to do with it though. Nidge isn't afraid of her. But the fact that Darren would have taken it extremely badly if Nidge offered Tommy up to the RA is a good point.

Also he was guilty about what he did to Tommy (shown in his visit to the hospital when he started smoking out the window....he was obviously planning to hang Darren and not Tommy in that scene), and what better way to get rid of that guilt than silence the only person that knows about it and keeps openly voicing their disapproval of it. That's a pretty warped way to deal with his guilt over Tommy but seems very Nidge!

stickybookmark

Imhof Tank wrote: »

True, Tony didn't know for sure who struck the fatal blow to Git, he did know for sure that Darren killed Paddy and shot at Dano. Darren was a dead man walking for that offence alone.

QUOTE]

This is another theory that I've heard from a few people but I'm not sure I agree with...

I mean Darren didn't exactly kill Paddy while Paddy was walking down the street going about his daily business in a seemingly unprovoked murder did he?

I don't pretend to know about the inner workings of the RA, but surely in an army type structure like theirs some deaths are seen as ''killed in the line of duty'' and they don't always operate on an eye for an eye basis?

I mean Paddy got shot while wearing a balaclava and driving a getaway car for the kidnapping of the leader of Darren's gang! What did the RA expect Darren to do, stand idly by?!

Of course he was going to try and fire at them and try to rescue Nidge, I mean Paddy would have done the same if his gang leader was being kidnapped. Do you not think the RA would have taken that into account?

It's kind of simliar to how Darren shot Elmo when Elmo was getaway driver for the attempted hit on Darren by Hughie. You didn't see Elmo having a grudge against Darren for that did you? It was seen as getting caught in the crossfire.

The RA were chasing down who killed Git because to them it seemed that Git was killed for no reason, hence they wanted to avenge his death and find out who dunnit. But Paddy's death is completely different, I don't think they would have been chasing someone down for that (and you'd also think Lizzie would have asked for the facts before just taking Darren out for it....but she was a grieving sibling who'd just lost 2 brothers, you wouldn't expect her to think rationally)

Flying Spaghetti Monster

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

According to the RTE guide,

Nidge cuts Fran out of the deal the last minute!

Oh right.. That must be what Fran meant in the trailer when he said ''You cut me out, now it's your game, is it?'' and Nidge says ''it's need to know that's all'' ..

power pants

morebarn2 wrote: »

I remember reading a while ago that Robert Sheehan,who played Darren had originally only agreed to the first series, and a second one,if they got the go ahead for the 2nd series. He did not want to be typecast,should the show go on for a long period. He left the Misfits cast in the UK for the same reason.

Anyway,when they showed him the outline for Series 3,he liked it and went on for one more year. So I suppose the writers knew he was going to be written out around that time and the storyline was set in that direction.

Don't think he needed worry about being typecast as a gangster :rolleyes::pac:

morebarn2

Agreed!

Ash.J.Williams

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

didn't hughie slap the head of Elmo too for no reason!

He had a bit of a row with Stumpy in the pub the day of Robbies funeral which seen Stumpy hit his head off the stairs.

Dont think he ever hit Elmo but luckily he didnt pull the trigger that time he was messing right just before he shot himself.

Flying Spaghetti Monster

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: »

Oh right.. That must be what Fran meant in the trailer when he said ''You cut me out, now it's your game, is it?'' and Nidge says ''it's need to know that's all'' ..

Would also explain

How Tommy knows that Nidge had Darren clipped. Fran must have fed him the information

Flying Spaghetti Monster

Deleted User wrote: »

Would also explain

How Tommy knows that Nidge had Darren clipped. Fran must have fed him the information

What do you make of this? Tommy is being manipulated heavily. Looks like he's going to try and hit Fran again or maybe Patrick.

BuilderPlumber

Flying Spaghetti Monster wrote: »

What do you make of this? Tommy is being manipulated heavily. Looks like he's going to try and hit Fran again or maybe Patrick.

The whole Nidge/Fran/Tommy stories are going to come out next episode. Certainly,

Nidge is going to cut Fran out of the deal.

.

With regard to Tommy finding out about Nidge and Fran about Linda: it is inevitable these two big secrets will come out but will they both be released in episode 6? I think Nidge will try and use Tommy to clip Fran maybe telling Tommy that Fran hit him. Fran survives and tells Tommy that Nidge hit him with Siobhan confirming that! Then, Tommy could meet up with Fran with both seeking revenge on Nidge.

Ash.J.Williams

Deleted User wrote: »

He had a bit of a row with Stumpy in the pub the day of Robbies funeral which seen Stumpy hit his head off the stairs.

Dont think he ever hit Elmo but luckily he didnt pull the trigger that time he was messing right just before he shot himself.

i think they were dancing in john boys house, and hughie got paranoid, and elmo wandered in all happy, and hughie decked him

BuilderPlumber

stickybookmark wrote: »

Some good points here.

I still don't agree that Siobhán was anything to do with it though. Nidge isn't afraid of her. But the fact that Darren would have taken it extremely badly if Nidge offered Tommy up to the RA is a good point.

Also he was guilty about what he did to Tommy (shown in his visit to the hospital when he started smoking out the window....he was obviously planning to hang Darren and not Tommy in that scene), and what better way to get rid of that guilt than silence the only person that knows about it and keeps openly voicing their disapproval of it. That's a pretty warped way to deal with his guilt over Tommy but seems very Nidge!

That is true. Nidge is not afraid of Siobhan of course but he is always afraid of losing control. Nidge wants to be in control of every situation and thinks ahead. Nidge's worst case scenario then was a team of Darren, Fran and Tommy united against him. Darren's elimination kinda put that to bed for a while! Now, what Nidge wants to avoid is the same thing: Fran, Tommy and the travellers out to get him. Could he set up Fran with the cops, clip Paddy the traveller and have Tommy somehow killed in the crossfire?

Going on the RTE guide and without giving out any spoilers, there is an interview with Caoilfhionn Dunne (Lizzie) which implies she is still relevant. Could it be that she is the one Nidge still has most to fear??

His visiting Tommy sums up the two sides of Nidge in one scene.

BuilderPlumber

stickybookmark wrote: »

Imhof Tank wrote: »

True, Tony didn't know for sure who struck the fatal blow to Git, he did know for sure that Darren killed Paddy and shot at Dano. Darren was a dead man walking for that offence alone.

QUOTE]

This is another theory that I've heard from a few people but I'm not sure I agree with...

I mean Darren didn't exactly kill Paddy while Paddy was walking down the street going about his daily business in a seemingly unprovoked murder did he?

I don't pretend to know about the inner workings of the RA, but surely in an army type structure like theirs some deaths are seen as ''killed in the line of duty'' and they don't always operate on an eye for an eye basis?

I mean Paddy got shot while wearing a balaclava and driving a getaway car for the kidnapping of the leader of Darren's gang! What did the RA expect Darren to do, stand idly by?!

Of course he was going to try and fire at them and try to rescue Nidge, I mean Paddy would have done the same if his gang leader was being kidnapped. Do you not think the RA would have taken that into account?

It's kind of simliar to how Darren shot Elmo when Elmo was getaway driver for the attempted hit on Darren by Hughie. You didn't see Elmo having a grudge against Darren for that did you? It was seen as getting caught in the crossfire.

The RA were chasing down who killed Git because to them it seemed that Git was killed for no reason, hence they wanted to avenge his death and find out who dunnit. But Paddy's death is completely different, I don't think they would have been chasing someone down for that (and you'd also think Lizzie would have asked for the facts before just taking Darren out for it....but she was a grieving sibling who'd just lost 2 brothers, you wouldn't expect her to think rationally)

Whatever the reasons, Darren suddenly went from being everyone's favourite to everyone's least favourite in season 3: afterall, the programme is called Love/Hate and a fine line divides the two.

• To the IRA (Tony especially), the first impressions of Darren were of someone who did not show any respect whatsoever. He was indeed the man who actually did kill Git and Paddy, and also threw the pipe bomb at Git's/Dano's car outside the pub. Tony probably knew or implied most of this and believed Nidge.
• To Nidge, Darren knew way too much: Tommy, Fran and Linda.
• To Fran, Darren stood in his way of being Nidge's trusted lieutenant (his first step was to get close to Nidge and now he wants to take over from Nidge). Darren was not Coolaboola!
• To Lizzie, Darren was a total disappointment and perhaps she was the most hurt of all.
• To Dano, he was one of many who killed his father.
• And Tommy was in a coma.

Gadgetman496

Whatever happens? I wouldn't fancy being on the other end of that look....

Xavi6

K-9 wrote: »

Always loved that song, the 70's had some great ould numbers.

It did but technically the song used is from the 60s (1969) , great use of it though and I too was humming the Dustin version

This from Wiki scared me -

The song has been covered by Right Said Fred, and their version has charted in Germany in 2006

Not sure why so many are whinging about Keith Duffy, he's a competent actor and a genuine Dub so him earning a bit part role is perfectly fine.

Looking forward to the finale now given there's so many questions that need to be answered. It's been a great series yet again.

Xavi6

starskey77 wrote: »

in my house myself and the wife have'nt a clue what aido or his girlfriend
are say'n subtitles for midlanders please

ibarelycare wrote: »

It's normal for me to have to rewind at least once an episode and stick on the subtitles cos I missed something!

biko wrote: »

Yeah, I don't understand the accents either.
Have you seen Spin The Bottle movie? Same thing there, I've no clue what they're saying

My missus is Aussie, has been to Ireland once, and she understands every word.

Bloody culchies

Muff Richardson

Xavi6 wrote: »

Not sure why so many are whinging about Keith Duffy, he's a competent actor and a genuine Dub so him earning a bit part role is perfectly fine.

I agree with you as far as him being a competent actor and played the role just fine. I think it was just the familiarity of him and the "howye buddy" head on him that he will never shake off, it just broke the mood of the programme somewhat/a lot.

stickybookmark

Xavi6 wrote: »

My missus is Aussie, has been to Ireland once, and she understands every word.

Bloody culchies

I'm a culchie but the other half is a northside Dub so I've had to have some expressions explained to me. I was surprised that ''quare fella'' (as said by Dano when asking Lizzie if there was any sign of Nidge) doesn't necessarily mean someone ''queer'' as in strange or weird but can be just another way of saying your man so ''any sign of the quare fella'' can mean ''any sign of yer man?''
I've even started using it now

Another one I liked was ''ya jackdaw!' as said by Fran to Tommy after he let that girl go during the tiger kidnapping.

Maybe in years to come after we've all officially started talking like yanks, Love/Hate will be studied by anthropology/history students as a chronicle of the Dublin vernacular. :P

bottlebrush

Pat Kenny will be interviewing Stuart Carolan on Newstalk in a few mins about next Sunday night's episode....

Ash.J.Williams

i'm tuned in right now, cheers!