Love/Hate [** Spoilers **]

Ash.J.Williams

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

no he didn't ...he saw cops and kicked into arrest mode within a fraction of a second.

Pretty much supporting my point. When the guards came bursting through he was on the phone ringing someone (probably the middle man to tell him divert the lorry). You could see the panic on his face when he seen the cops and as you correctly alluded to he was willing to cooperate within a fraction of a second. He shouted cops repeatedly at Aido and Elmo

kfallon

Deleted User wrote: »

Pretty much supporting my point. When the guards came bursting through he was on the phone ringing someone (probably the middle man to tell him divert the lorry). You could see the panic on his face when he seen the cops and as you correctly alluded to he was willing to cooperate within a fraction of a second. He shouted cops repeatedly at Aido and Elmo

What did you expect him to do? And of course he had panic on his face, his first thought was prob, "Oh shít I've been caught and I could be looking at a long stretch here!"

BuilderPlumber

newballsplease wrote: »

Director of the show put it well today. He said that they filmed season 4 knowing they were to be comissoned for a 5th season. Therefore the story will continue as such with the gardai/nidge/fran and they didnt wanna go down the same route as having a main character killed off at the end like season 3 and 2.


Edit: link here http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/tv-radio/lovehate-director-defends-finale-as-fans-vent-their-anger-29745759.html

I think series 1 was wrapped up in 4 episodes but with a definite option to continue. By season 2, it was wrapped up as a happy ending for King Nidge and in a way, we saw a lot of characters moving on and clearly things were in place here if it was not recommissioned.

Move on to series 3: by now, the popularity of the show and of Nidge in particular was beyond doubt. It was from here that they more than likely knew that there would be a 4th series after this. Hence, there was a dramatic end with Darren killed but the IRA and Tommy storylines were left open for the more than likely to be series four. A new favourite came to prominence here too with Fran.

By series 4, we were in territory where a fifth series was commissioned so it was obvious a whole lot would be set up here for series 5. Personally, I loved the season (true, season 3 was better but season 4 was up there with season 2 for sure) but to others, it ended disappointingly. However, I cannot help but wonder what they would say if they had killed off Nidge or Fran: there would be fury!

Of course, if season 4 was a standalone we would be concerned about some of the issues not wrapped up. True, this guy stalking the cop who the cops later beat up had no other connection to anything in season 4 but I'm sure it is there for a reason in season 5. Likewise, Keith Duffy: I'm sure he will feature prominently and get into trouble akin to the dentist next time. Noelie Hughes v Fran is another one for the next time around not to mention of course all of Nidge's secrets coming out to cause trouble with Tommy and Fran. Glen, the travellers, Lizzie, Tony, Janet, etc. all have unfinished business too and where will Ado go? Try to go legit and end up getting deeper into things like Darren did. And I think Tommy will recover fully and will also want to go legit. And then there's Elmo, who seems to be groomed to be Nidge's sidekick to replace Fran.

bazermc

Getting close to 10,000 posts and the end of this thread!!!!!!!!!!!

Soft Falling Rain

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

Wayne getting plugged by a guy who barely featured - bad writing. There was no need for it. It would have made more sense for Elmo to do it. He was there anyway.

Look at it this way; why have Elmo take the risk when they had the eager little patsy in Glen? Worst come to worst and he fluffs the hit/or gets caught in the aftermath, they can just intimidate him into staying quiet.

Solid finale for me without outdoing itself. I thought the final scene borrowed a bit from Tom Hardy in Bronson

The ever growing graveyard

1. Robbie Treacy the brother of Darren and Mary (shot by Hughie)
2. Jimmy Byrne (shot by Hughie)
3. Martin the Traveller (bludgeoned to death with a cue ball by Hughie before been burned in his caravan)
4. Hughie (shot himself accidentally)
5. Stumpy (Shot by Darren)
6. Micka (shot by Fran after he was the getaway driver in a botched attempt by Tommy at shooting Fran and his associates)
7. Linda mark 1 (pipebombed by Nidge but later committed suicide due to the severe burns from the attack)
8. John Boy (Shot by Darren)
9. Luke (Shot by Nidge)
10. Git (kicked to an inch by Tommy and 'put out of his misery by Darren')
11. Elmo's cousin (Shot by Darren)
12. Elmo's cousin's wife (Shot by Darren)
13. Ray (died of a suspected heart attack/SDS)
14. Paddy (Shot by Darren)
15. Darren (shot by Lizzie)
16. Dano (kneecapped by the RA)
17. Debbie (Heroin overdose)
18. Denise (other foreign prostitute who overdosed beside Debbie)
19. Wayne (Shot by Glen 'Guinea')
20. Andrew the dentist (Smothered with a plastic bag by Fran)

Also worth mentioning that Noelie's ma and Nidge's ma died of natural causes.

Added to those you had the death of budgies, pitbull terriers, a cat, a few pigeons and a Swan.


Those who came close to death were

1. Elmo who was shot by Darren,
2. Darren who himself was shot by Stumpy and lost a lung,
3. Carlo who was glassed by Fran
4. Darren was also nearly clipped by a lad on a bmx
5. Darren was nearly shot by Elmo on the orders of Nidge
6. Aido who was kneecapped by the RA,
7. Dano who was nearly pipe-bombed by Darren,
8. Tommy who took a severe beating off Nidge and still isn't right
9. Nidge kneecapped a lad with a shotgun for not settling his debts in S2 E1
10. Fran survived a botched hit in S2
11. Fran who survived another botched hit in s4
12. Nidge who the RA had in the boot of the car
13. Paddy the Traveller in S4
14. Tommy nearly snuffed it again in S4 finale

Im probably missing loads more

kfallon

kfallon wrote: »

What did you expect him to do? And of course he had panic on his face, his first thought was prob, "Oh shít I've been caught and I could be looking at a long stretch here!"

Fair point.

MrVestek

Can somebody please tell me why they killed off the kid and decided to go with his mate instead?

I didn't understand that at all whilst watching the finalé.

Benteke

I don't think you have to kill of a character to have a gripping finale, Season 1 ended with will Darren live or not, At the end of season 2 we had Nidge playing a computer game but it gave the viewers something to look forward to for the next series and we asked ourselves what sort of leader he would be, At the end of Season 3 we had Darren shot and as viewers we asked ourselves what will happen next, At the end of Season 4 we had Nidge piss on milk instead of setting up a cliffhanger with a feud with Fran and Nidge

Nobody needed to be killed, It could have been a botched hit or maybe something along the lines of Fran intercepting the truck because he did not want to be screwed, So many ways of doing it without killing of a character

Soft Falling Rain

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

Look at it this way; why have Elmo take the risk when they had the eager little patsy in Glen? Worst come to worst and he fluffs the hit/or gets caught in the aftermath, they can just intimidate him into staying quiet.

Solid finale for me without outdoing itself. I thought the final scene borrowed a bit from Tom Hardy in Bronson

Thats true. I half wonder did Elmo even trust himself to get it done after his last pathetic attempt at clipping someone?

raven136

I wonder should they try and branch out to 8 episodes next year

6 seems a small number to try and fit so much into.

Kenny Logins

Achilles wrote: »

Can somebody please tell me why they killed off the kid and decided to go with his mate instead?

I didn't understand that at all whilst watching the finalé.

Wayne was useless - he gave up Dano far too easily and instead offered to work for the person he was sent to kill. He couldn't be trusted.

The other kid has proven himself (so far) by killing Wayne.

Witcher

They're all fcking hopeless at clipping people, Darren was the only one that was any use at taking people out. Nearly all have one failure under their belt.

Though if you give Fran the jump on someone and a Tesco bag he'll get the job done.

Nidge is surrounded by people that haven't got a brain between them and even when he does things himself he fcuks up.

Look at how Darren had the sense to find out whether Elmo's cousin called him Eric so he could gain his trust and he'd open the door. Imagine Aido or someone going to do that hit, they'd rang the bell and said 'It's Aido from Nidge Delaney's gang, I'm here to clip you can ya let me in?'

MrVestek

Yeah but you could see that Nidge had taken a shine to him and it was almost like he was going to be his little protigé.

They didn't explain that very well at all in my view. As I was watching it I was like 'wait... what?! why did they go and do that?'

Totally out of the blue.

Achilles

Achilles wrote: »

Can somebody please tell me why they killed off the kid and decided to go with his mate instead?

I didn't understand that at all whilst watching the finalé.

Paranoia more than likely. Could the man who initially wanted to kill Nidge and then turned sides be actually trusted? Nidge is so paranoid now he is chopping and changing like the weather and Wayne was an easy and gullible target

His mate wanted in to gangland and Wayne wouldnt put in a word for him with Nidge so he decided he'd make his own route at the expense of Wayne.

I do half wonder though if Nidge actually wanted Elmo to do the murder only Elmo probably hadnt the confidence to do the hit after he made an absolute shiiite of the last attempt at a sitting duck (Darren)

Benteke

I would love to see more episodes just because I love the show if anything and want to watch more, What has made the show is the fast pace and the quick turn around of events, If you have more episodes it could spoil the show in that aspect but I would love to see more though

spurious

I think Nidge saw in Wayne a kid who would do anything for anyone as long as they paid him - therefore he was a danger to him. No loyalty - not that there ever is among crims, but I think Nidge likes to think there is.

Benteke

All wayne did was say 'Whatever' or Wherever the money is' He was not exactly Al Pacino

Benteke

Benteke wrote: »

All wayne did was say 'Whatever' or Wherever the money is' He was not exactly Al Pacino

He took care of things in an Al Pacino way though more than say a Julie Andrews way

Blay

Blay wrote: »

They're all fcking hopeless at clipping people, Darren was the only one that was any use at taking people out. Nearly all have one failure under their belt.

Though if you give Fran the jump on someone and a Tesco bag he'll get the job done.

Nidge is surrounded by people that haven't got a brain between them and even when he does things himself he fcuks up.

Look at how Darren had the sense to find out whether Elmo's cousin called him Eric so he could gain his trust and he'd open the door. Imagine Aido or someone going to do that hit, they'd rang the bell and said 'It's Aido from Nidge Delaney's gang, I'm here to clip you can ya let me in?'

And even less than that since Tommy's 'accident' with those 'Nooiiigerians'

Kenny Logins

Achilles wrote: »

Yeah but you could see that Nidge had taken a shine to him and it was almost like he was going to be his little protigé.

They didn't explain that very well at all in my view. As I was watching it I was like 'wait... what?! why did they go and do that?'

Totally out of the blue.

I think we were just lead to think that, as Wayne was. He always going to 'get it'.

Soft Falling Rain

Kenny Logins wrote: »

Wayne was useless - he gave up Dano far too easily and instead offered to work for the person he was sent to kill. He couldn't be trusted.

This is absolutely true, which just makes Nidge taking a shine to him in the first place bizarre to me.

Nidge felt he had "balls" but I felt the opposite was true; a slippery snake that wiggles free of tough situations by switching sides.

nxbyveromdwjpg

Achilles wrote: »

Can somebody please tell me why they killed off the kid and decided to go with his mate instead?

I didn't understand that at all whilst watching the finalé.

The kid broke into Nidge's house to kill him, and also knew about the botched hit on the pikey

Kenny Logins

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

This is absolutely true, which just makes Nidge taking a shine to him in the first place bizarre to me.

I'm not sure he did.

ThisRegard

Benteke wrote: »

All wayne did was say 'Whatever' or Wherever the money is' He was not exactly Al Pacino

And tried to kill Nidge for that money. He could have easily been paid by the bomb maker to turn on Nidge.

Happyman42

It's clear from the last few pages that the problem is that there is a 'lack' in the writing which is bringing the series down.
There shouldn't be confusion. Ambiguity, if it serves the story, absolutely. But confusion comes from bad writing.

There is no clear motivation for Nidge to have Wayne clipped in the way it happened at that point. Patrick is still a threat and as said before, Fran would not be looking for corroborating witnesses if Patrick told him what he knows. If anything, we should have seen Nidge seeking out Patrick more. And it was just silly that he chose Elmo (whom he suspects, you know, the paranoia thing?) to be involved.
It was just badly thought through in the context of the story, and I think Wayne was sacrificed for a bit of titillation and shock in the last episode.

Because we have had episodes of good and bad writing we are now forced to wait a year before we get to see if the final was good in context writing or just more confusing motivations.

ThisRegard

Happyman42 wrote: »

It's clear from the last few pages that the problem is that there is a 'lack' in the writing which is bringing the series down.

The lack is in the comprehension of people, I don't think there's any ambiguity in the writing.

Benteke

We won't know if it's bad writing until the next season, For all we know their was a reason Nidge got himself locked up, It's the waiting to find out that is the killer

walshb

Happyman42 wrote: »

I

There is no clear motivation for Nidge to have Wayne clipped in the way it happened at that point. Patrick is still a threat and as said before, Fran would not be looking for corroborating witnesses if Patrick told him what he knows. If anything, we should have seen Nidge seeking out Patrick more. And it was just silly that he chose Elmo (whom he suspects, you know, the paranoia thing?) to be involved.
.

Why can't we just assume that Wayne was done because Nidge wanted him done for the threat he made with Lizzy on his life? Used him for a wee while, it didn't work out, now kill the snake for daring to take me out.

RoryMac

Wayne was getting clipped no matter what the outcome of the traveller hit was. There was no bond between Nidge and Wayne, he was simply a guy that Nidge could bring to the hit that wouldn't ask questions as to why they were after the traveller.

Once that was out of the way Wayne was always getting clipped to pay for coming into Nidge's house.

Not sure why there's confusion but it's certainly not down to the writing.