Love/Hate [** Spoilers **]

listermint

Happyman42 wrote: »

...and we are not precluded from talking about them.

I think your overiding derision of the entire series is actually laughable at this stage. And yet you still dress it up as debate.

I firmly believe you have some underlying issues with RTE on a scale not yet addressed emotionally.

Happyman42

listermint wrote: »

I think your overiding derision of the entire series is actually laughable at this stage. And yet you still dress it up as debate.

I firmly believe you have some underlying issues with RTE on a scale not yet addressed emotionally.

what is my derision 'overiding'?

I had a few problems with characterisation, acting and production values and some posters are having a hissy fit about me wanting to discuss them and that is now 'some underlying issues with RTE'????? :eek:

Our man in Havana

Back on topic now or this thread gets closed.

Happyman42

The reception of this series is very interesting. Some people obviously have problems with it (judging from the thread) and others love it while having no problems admitting it has flaws. I wonder how much license do the writers and producers have in sarcrificing the honesty of the content to image (which I believe it has)and a slavish devotion to coolness and style?

caspa307

Our man in Havana wrote: »

Back on topic now or this thread gets closed.

thank god and thank you,

i started watching season 1 on friday when my cousin gave me the first two seasons, i stayed up till around half 2ish i think, then saturday i watched the second season for the day and i just thought this is easily one the best shows on tv, now the third season and im on the same as everyone else :P.

anyway on to my point, i think its such a shame that its on rte only, (as in in ireland) this would be huge if they could get the bbc to broadcast it IMO its easily one of the best shows rte have produced, its a shame people that dont live in ireland probably wont ever get to see it

fasttalkerchat

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

Who cares what those murdering scumbags call themselves? The series is already shot, cut and finished long ago - they don't change it based on current events.

No need for the rabble. This is a discussion of a tv show.

They do base it on current events, republicans taking on the Dublin drug dealers on a large scale is a pretty current event!

fasttalkerchat

Happyman42 wrote: »

The reception of this series is very interesting. Some people obviously have problems with it (judging from the thread) and others love it while having no problems admitting it has flaws. I wonder how much license do the writers and producers have in sarcrificing the honesty of the content to image (which I believe it has)and a slavish devotion to coolness and style?

I loved the first two seasons and will probably enjoy the second season. My worry is that as they try to push the boundaries with what they will show it was lose accuracy... I'm worried that the final episode will be a man in military uniform and balaclava firing a RPG through a Nidge's front window

Happyman42

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

I loved the first two seasons and will probably enjoy the second season. My worry is that as they try to push the boundaries with what they will show it was lose accuracy... I'm worried that the final episode will be a man in military uniform and balaclava firing a RPG through a Nidge's front window

The irony being that Nidge will have imported the RPG for them. Hoist by his own petard!

Another little crib with the accuracy; we are asked to believe that a relatively small time hoodlum has his own boat and infrastructure to import and the head of a subversive organisation can't manage it, even after years of activism and will compromise his organisation to get Nidge to do it.

Miguel_Sanchez

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

They do base it on current events, republicans taking on the Dublin drug dealers on a large scale is a pretty current event!

What's your definition of current?

What I'm saying is that the emergence of a new 'movement' calling themselves the IRA in the past few weeks will not impact on the series as it is long since shot and edited.

I don't think the makers would worry if there's some splinter group out there and they're not using the exact right name and are simply sticking to 'IRA' in the series.

Miguel_Sanchez

Happyman42 wrote: »

Another little crib with the accuracy; we are asked to believe that a relatively small time hoodlum has his own boat and infrastructure to import and the head of a subversive organisation can't manage it, even after years of activism and will compromise his organisation to get Nidge to do it.

The character did state however that they were being watched very closely and that it seemed like the drug gang were getting their gear in they could use that to avoid detection. It wasn't that he couldn't organise it, just that the current close scrutiny made it harder.

enricoh

i cant believe the amount of negative comments on here, i think it was the best drama on rte in yonks! but as for killinascully.......jesus wept!

Happyman42

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

The character did state however that they were being watched very closely and that it seemed like the drug gang were getting their gear in they could use that to avoid detection. It wasn't that he couldn't organise it, just that the current close scrutiny made it harder.

Indeed he did, so what was he doing associating publically with Nidge? Just doesn't ring true, like a lot of other stuff in it.
I am fully aware and supportive of dramatic license but it can all to easily show a bias.
If I may mention another more serious case of this, In The Name Of The Father messed around with the truth of the story it was telling too from the opposite bias. It very clearly had an anti British slant. They wrote that it was Garret Pierce who discovered the crucial evidence when in fact, it was a British policeman who tipped her off. The producers of it claimed dramatic licence too, but it wasn't, it was just self serving lies and tantamount to propaganda. Knowing where the line is, is the sign of a good production imo.

Miguel_Sanchez

Happyman42 wrote: »

Indeed he did, so what was he doing associating publically with Nidge? Just doesn't ring true, like a lot of other stuff in it.
I am fully aware and supportive of dramatic license but it can all to easily show a bias.

I don't think you can jump to the conclusion that it's a bias. Not accurate sure but then again we're watching a TV show and I'm happy to let it slide because the show is hugely entertaining and well put together.

I also realise that the chances of a high school chemistry teacher becoming a drug kingpin over the course of one year is highly unlikely but that doesn't stop me enjoying Breaking Bad.

FloatingVoter

When Love/Hate starts billing itself as a drama-doc all or any of the above complaints may be valid. It is however a work of fiction loosely based on modern day gangland.

Happyman42

Jeff_Lebowski wrote: »

I don't think you can jump to the conclusion that it's a bias. Not accurate sure but then again we're watching a TV show and I'm happy to let it slide because the show is hugely entertaining and well put together.

When you couple it with the stock stereotype I have no doubt it is biased. What's worse is the shortcuts they seem to be willing to take. Doesn't auger well for the series, I expect more quick tempered whiskey drinking stereotypes.

I also realise that the chances of a high school chemistry teacher becoming a drug kingpin over the course of one year is highly unlikely but that doesn't stop me enjoying Breaking Bad.

I think you are confused about dramatic licence and veracity.

Ash.J.Williams

Ha ha check out who plays Git! No wonder he couldn't get it up!

Ash.J.Williams

Btw, the general reaction Ive encountered to the first episode is "WOW"

GetInTheHole!

Happyman42 wrote: »

Oh dear, I think you just proved my point. There are none so sad as those who can't see that they are being pandered to. Lazy writing wins again.

I can think of one more sad..

MaxSteele

Robert Sheehan is possibly the most laughable excuse as a drug dealer/ gangland criminal. You'd be more intimidated by baby in a basket on your doorstep.

He should be in One Direction, not strutting about to sh*t rap music, while trying to mimic a working class dub with a posh accent. Who the F cast him ?

Witcher

MaxSteele wrote: »

Robert Sheehan is possibly the most laughable excuse as a drug dealer/ gangland criminal. You'd be more intimidated by baby in a basket on your doorstep.

He should be in One Direction, not strutting about to sh*t rap music, while trying to mimic a working class dub with a posh accent. Who the F cast him ?

He wasn't cast as a hard nosed criminal, he's an example of someone that's been pulled into this world by associating with people who are dyed in the wool criminals.

batistuta9

Blay wrote: »

He wasn't cast as a hard nosed criminal, he's an example of someone that's been pulled into this world by associating with people who are dyed in the wool criminals.

he's not even the type of person you'd think people like that would speak to never mind associate with

Happyman42

GetInTheHole! wrote: »

I can think of one more sad..

We don't like anyone tarnishing our shiny new things, do we?

Lovely Bloke

looks like Nidge is definitely going to be throwing a lenght to Ra-son's mrs pretty soon anyway, the lucky man

Witcher

batistuta9 wrote: »

he's not even the type of person you'd think people like that would speak to never mind associate with

Could have met them through other friends, I know people who you wouldn't think were tough guys but they'd go through you like sh1t through a sewer, appearences can be deceptive.

Mardy Bum

Blay wrote: »

He wasn't cast as a hard nosed criminal, he's an example of someone that's been pulled into this world by associating with people who are dyed in the wool criminals.

a la Deangelo Barksdale of the Wire.

FirstinLastout

Mardy Bum wrote: »

a la Deangelo Barksdale of the Wire.

But that guy could act, Robert S is a pretty boy ham!

D-FENS

Happyman42 wrote: »

I expect more quick tempered whiskey drinking stereotypes.

You’ve made some points about the writing that are worth considering but, out of pure curiosity, what should a modern day IRA man look, sound and be doing on screen differently to Git, that would benefit the show?

joydivision

D-FENS wrote: »

You’ve made some points about the writing that are worth considering but, out of pure curiosity, what should a modern day IRA man look, sound and be doing on screen differently to Git, that would benefit the show?

I think happyman wants the poetic wild eyed romantic stereotype IRA man . Like the fella in the crying game .

Happyman42

D-FENS wrote: »

You’ve made some points about the writing that are worth considering but, out of pure curiosity, what should a modern day IRA man look, sound and be doing on screen differently to Git, that would benefit the show?

I think they missed an oppurtunity to make this a great series, with memorable characters.
By introducing a by now, tired stock archtype, they have gone down the road of predictability. I knew and I am positive that most knew that Git was gonna explode at some stage on the pub crawl, I knew that as soon as he followed the girl out that an altercation would take place. You could have ended up with the same denouement in a much more interesting and profound way.
What they could have done and the series would not have suffered one bit was create a more complex and nuanced character whose actions and reactions are not predictable. Look at the support characters in the other series we are talking about, original and interesting to a man and a woman. That's the writing quality that lifts them above the norm and the mediocre.
A good commissioning editor would have sent them back to the word processor because a good editor should spot a lazy stereotype a mile off.

D-FENS

Happyman42 wrote: »

I think they missed an oppurtunity to make this a great series, with memorable characters.
By introducing a by now, tired stock archtype, they have gone down the road of predictability. I knew and I am positive that most knew that Git was gonna explode at some stage on the pub crawl, I knew that as soon as he followed the girl out that an altercation would take place. You could have ended up with the same denouement in a much more interesting and profound way.
What they could have done and the series would not have suffered one bit was create a more complex and nuanced character whose actions and reactions are not predictable. Look at the support characters in the other series we are talking about, original and interesting to a man and a woman. That's the writing quality that lifts them above the norm and the mediocre.
A good commissioning editor would have sent them back to the word processor because a good editor should spot a lazy stereotype a mile off.

I think you’re asking for a lot of depth to be given to a one episode, bit part character. I think his screen time served its purpose.
If you’re stating they should have kept him in the show for longer and then developed his character more, that’s fair enough, but personally I think it was a brave move introducing a new “boss” than killing him off just as quick, leaving the story to concentrate on the affect his death would have on the other characters. I actually thought they should have done this in season one with John Boy, I thought Aidan Gillan was just as miscast as Robert Sheenan and having Brian Gleeson’s character survive him as boss, if only for a while, would have been very interesting.

And I actually thought they worked his demise well considering they were going down the route of the knee-capping having repercussions, but he was then killed over something unexpected (Or unexpected until he went for that pi$$). As someone said, it was very like the movie irreversible but even shows like the Sopranos and Breaking Bad are “inspired” by films like the Godfather

I won’t defend the show too much in comparison to Breaking Bad, there is no comparison. BB has brought drama to the extreme, at times to the point of being far-fetched, but it works because of the original story, exceptional writing, brilliant acting and the fact Vince Gilligan has never said it’s meant to be an accurate mirror to life.

Now if Love/Hate tried to be that type of show, success or failure would certainly ensure entertainment one way of the other, but it’s not that type of show, but again we should be grateful we’ve moved on from crawling to walking in terms of Irish drama.