.223/5.56mm ammo prices and availability? Also is a S/A restricted?

Sparks

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

The SL7 and SL8 are actually nothin alike.

Except that one's just 1 larger than the other

gunhappy_ie

Sparks wrote: »

. By law you can't fit the G36 folding stock to it, though the rest of the hardware is swappable...

I dont get that statement .... in the US there are restrictions regarding where the parts were made...

here in ireland as its a restricted rifle any way 1 can do what ever they want with it so long as the conditions on there licence dont prohibit them from doing so

Hibrion

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

An error.... it is a rifle under irish law.

Definitely an error. I'd say it happened because it is a short restricted firearm.
Don't see any real use for it anyway. A pistol would be more fun:)

gunhappy_ie

Sparks wrote: »

Except that one's just 1 larger than the other

the only common grount they share is that there both semi autos....

SL7 roller locking.... Sl8 rotary locking bolt

SL7 .308...... SL8 .223

SL7 Wooden stock.... Sl8 polymer.

SL7 is designed as a hunting rifle..... SL8 designed as a target rifle.


I dont see the similarities

gunhappy_ie

Hibrion wrote: »

I'd say it happened because it is a short restricted firearm.
Don't see any real use for it anyway. A pistol would be more fun:)

It possibly happened because it wasnt known what was being licenced or the person was well up with there C/S


I do see the use for them... there a great pinker/target shooter and multicailber ... fired 1 years ago.... accurate too

Sparks

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

I dont get that statement .... in the US there are restrictions regarding where the parts were made...

Nope, there are restrictions on the rifle itself as it's an import:
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Heckler_&_Koch_SL8

here in ireland as its a restricted rifle any way 1 can do what ever they want with it so long as the conditions on there licence dont prohibit them from doing so

Yup, different jurisdiction.

Sparks

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

I dont see the similarities

8-7=1

At this hour of the morning, off-by-one errors happen

Hibrion

Having handled it I think I personally would prefer a pistol or a semi auto rifle. It does have a novelty factor to it though. Not something you see everyday.

gunhappy_ie

Sparks wrote: »

Nope, there are restrictions on the rifle itself as it's an import:
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Heckler_&_Koch_SL8



Yup, different jurisdiction.

Had a quick look over that but looks like its designed for US readers.....

Here in Ireland..... A perfect example wouls be a mossberg 500 shotgun....

You licence it as a restricted firearm because of its 5 shot cap.

a year into the licence you deside that you dont like the stock, theres nothin stopping you putting on a pistol grip as the firearm is already restricted.....

a year later you thing " feck i dont like this 24" barrel" and you but a 13" barrel" (remember to be a longarm it has to have a barrel over 30cm and over all length of 60 cm) it is still a restricted long arm... which you are licenced for.....

opposite end of the scale ... you buy and licence a mossberg 500 as a non restricted long arm... you cannot do ant of the above mentioned modifications as it will then class it as a restricted firearm.... to which you are not licenced for.

The SL8 under Irish law is a restricted firearm and although it is sold with 10 round mang there is nothin preventing some1 modifynig 30 rounders to fit.... as long as there licence doesnt prohibit them from doing so

Sparks

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

a year into the licence you deside that you dont like the stock, theres nothin stopping you putting on a pistol grip as the firearm is already restricted.....

Yes, but you can't put on G36 hardware on the SL8 receiver without serious modifications because the SL8 was developed for the US civilian market, so it was built to get round the gun control act.

Tackleberrywho

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

Had a quick look over that but looks like its designed for US readers.....

Here in Ireland..... A perfect example wouls be a mossberg 500 shotgun....

You licence it as a restricted firearm because of its 5 shot cap.

a year into the licence you deside that you dont like the stock, theres nothin stopping you putting on a pistol grip as the firearm is already restricted.....

a year later you thing " feck i dont like this 24" barrel" and you but a 13" barrel" (remember to be a longarm it has to have a barrel over 30cm and over all length of 60 cm) it is still a restricted long arm... which you are licenced for.....

opposite end of the scale ... you buy and licence a mossberg 500 as a non restricted long arm... you cannot do ant of the above mentioned modifications as it will then class it as a restricted firearm.... to which you are not licenced for.

The SL8 under Irish law is a restricted firearm and although it is sold with 10 round mang there is nothin preventing some1 modifynig 30 rounders to fit.... as long as there licence doesnt prohibit them from doing so

Restricted is the way forward, I have 3 restricted firearms.
Once you satisfy the regulations it's fine.

.223 is a great little round. The .204 may be a better one though

I'm biased, I love my .223
I've shot hundreds of bunnies with my .223!

gunhappy_ie

Sparks wrote: »

Yes, but you can't put on G36 hardware on the SL8 receiver without serious modifications because the SL8 was developed for the US civilian market, so it was built to get round the gun control act.

Its pi$$ easy do....

I say that because I have owned 1 .... and Im an armourer..... everything is easy when you know how :P

Legally though... there is nothin as sure stopping it benig dont in Ireland (only that a competitant gunsmith has to do it)

gunhappy_ie

Tackleberrywho wrote: »

Restricted is the way forward, I have 3 restricted firearms.
Once you satisfy the regulations it's fine.

.223 is a great little round. The .204 may be a better one though

I'm biased, I love my .223
I've shot hundreds of bunnies with my .223!

Agreed.... I love .223.... and Ive never ised .204 I hear ( and im sure some1 will correct me) that it really goes through barrels... :P:P:P:P

but more variety IMO with .223

Grizzly 45

Am in the process of liscensing a Remington Semi auto R25 in 243.Which is basically an AR10 design.So YES they are out there and are liscenseable.
And kudos to Gunhappy.ie,he was a tremendous help in the liscensing court case.This man knows his S/A stuff.:D

The ruger mini 14.
I've always wanted one of these in stainless with the folding stock,ala the A team rifles that they had in the 80s TV seris.:D
well its a fine gun when you use it in it's design parameters.
It is a lightweight varmit/deer /plinker/patrolmans rifle.That has an exellent reloading mechanism based on the M1 Garand/M14 rifle.Idea was to flog it to ex GIs and early Nam vets who would be fammilar with the Garand and M14,as well as police depts who would have been trained on those guns as well.
It certainly will beat an AR15 hands down in reliabilityand price ,but the AR15 wins in accruacy.It NEVER was intended as a poor mans battle rifle.It can be tarted up with practically everything from useful to down right stupid.
Ruger did re design it a couple of times in its life.Started as the ruger mini 14 in both stainless and blued.There were a few Law enforcement versions in full auto,and equipped with bayonet lugs and flash hiders and folding stocks,The GB was the one set up for the bayonet,it had the sight further back down the barrel.It was issued to the RUC in NI for a time,and became notorious in Ireland being used by the Border Fox in the Darkley massacre in NI.

In the Early 80s Ruger brought out the Ranch rifle.Nothing more than a strengthened reciver for scope mounts and some other cosmetic changes,and more or less better sights.
They also brought it out in 7.62X39 AK,to cash in on the then extremly cheap ammo then starting to come out of the USSR with Glasnost.
Its only recently that Ruger brought in the design changes that have bugged the Mini for generations.
Bigger caliber[6.8]with a heavier barrel ,which still has barrel harmonic problems,a target version,and the stainless all weather version.
All INMHO too little too late.What with the AR15 in all versions and calibres nowadays.Ruger mucking around with what is admittedly a good AR copy
with a gas piston upper,is again just another drop in a flood of the AR15.

Ruger missed a trick when they dropped the XGI seris an experimental version in .243 and .308 .Had they kept it up it would have been an exellent deer brush rifle.Short,good calibre,and fast handling.

Grizzly 45

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

I dont get that statement .... in the US there are restrictions regarding where the parts were made...

here in ireland as its a restricted rifle any way 1 can do what ever they want with it so long as the conditions on there licence dont prohibit them from doing so

In the US it is a PARTS COUNT not where they are made.To satisfy BATFE ruling section 92[ii] R.Any firearm that is non import[generally prohibited now] must have ten or more US made parts.
So that is the buttstock,foregrip,sear,mainspring,trigger,hammer,bolt ,bolt carrier,trigger spring,Magazine,and recently the barrel.So ,IOW put genuine made in the USA bits in your AK parts kit with a semi auto only bolt and trigger group and you have a genuine sporting US made semi rifle.
depending in which state you live in you can have all the Evillll features on it or not .
totally irrevelant to Irish law.you have it restricted,you can hang what you please on it.


BTW www.Hera-arms.de do conversion kits for the HK SL8 to make it more like the G36.
They are very good quality,seeing they are made in Germany.

Sparks

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

totally irrevelant to Irish law

It's not a legal point at all grizzly, the point was that the original SL8 (gunhappy's since pointed out that the design's been altered) was built to comply with that law, so you couldn't plug in G36 hardware without milling and changing parts. That's a hardware design, which is the bit you have to go round when you're in Ireland (and the law here doesn't prevent it).

Grizzly 45

Yes,but what I am saying is now that there are kits for the SL7 to turn it into a G36,which cut out all the milling,and fabrication ,and they werent developed for the US market at all,they were developed for the German market,when S/As came off the German prohibited military arms list.So basically if you have an SL7 here ,even an early one.You can buy a "plug&play"kit and turn it into a semi G36.
The only reason the HK SL gets into the US is because of its hideous configuration for import.If you then apply the US "ten parts count rule"
You can have it in any config you want over there provided state and local laws allow it.

gunhappy_ie

Sparks wrote: »

It's not a legal point at all grizzly, the point was that the original SL8 (gunhappy's since pointed out that the design's been altered) was built to comply with that law, so you couldn't plug in G36 hardware without milling and changing parts. That's a hardware design, which is the bit you have to go round when you're in Ireland (and the law here doesn't prevent it).

There is no milling of parts required !

theres no bit that you have to go around here in ireland...... its simple .. you buy... you try.... you modify

you generally are under no legal oblication here so long as you dont change calibre and dont change its fire control.

change the stock and mount every accessory known to man and beast including a microwave on a pic rail for all the cops to see.... there is nothing stopping you.

gunhappy_ie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

In the US it is a PARTS COUNT not where they are made.To satisfy BATFE ruling section 92[ii] R.Any firearm that is non import[generally prohibited now] must have ten or more US made parts.
So that is the buttstock,foregrip,sear,mainspring,trigger,hammer,bolt ,bolt carrier,trigger spring,Magazine,and recently the barrel.So ,IOW put genuine made in the USA bits in your AK parts kit with a semi auto only bolt and trigger group and you have a genuine sporting US made semi rifle.
depending in which state you live in you can have all the Evillll features on it or not .
totally irrevelant to Irish law.you have it restricted,you can hang what you please on it.


BTW www.Hera-arms.de do conversion kits for the HK SL8 to make it more like the G36.
They are very good quality,seeing they are made in Germany.

There on my old SL8

Feckin fantastc rifle though !!!!!!! Id have another in the mornin if i could !

FISMA

Sparks wrote: »

Yes, but you can't put on G36 hardware on the SL8 receiver without serious modifications because the SL8 was developed for the US civilian market, so it was built to get round the gun control act.

...comply Sparks, comply.;)

gunhappy_ie

SL8..... semi auto .223

Brugger + Thomet pic rail
B+T harris bipod adaptor
G36 optic
Harris bipod

Standard 10 round man and origional rail incuded in second pic

FISMA

GunHappy,
Did you have that here or did you live abroad? Very sweet shooter - can't miss with those peep sights.

In the US these poor auld rifles were yet another illegitimate child of the Clinton era. What a shame to force a single stack mag onto such a frame.

What size mags did you have? Did they ever make anything bigger than a 10? Was the scope/handle HK or aftermarket? Did you dye the stock or is this an SL8-1?

ivanthehunter

Thanks for the information lads as to the models etc etc..but......emmmmm!

What sort of prices am i going to have to contend with for theses units!

As gunhappy said it will have to be reliability over everything else and that'll mean a piston action IIRC.

gunhappy_ie

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

In the US it is a PARTS COUNT not where they are made.To satisfy BATFE ruling section 92[ii] R.Any firearm that is non import[generally prohibited now] must have ten or more US made parts.
So that is the buttstock,foregrip,sear,mainspring,trigger,hammer,bolt ,bolt carrier,trigger spring,Magazine,and recently the barrel.So ,IOW put genuine made in the USA bits in your AK parts kit with a semi auto only bolt and trigger group and you have a genuine sporting US made semi rifle.
depending in which state you live in you can have all the Evillll features on it or not .
totally irrevelant to Irish law.you have it restricted,you can hang what you please on it.


BTW www.Hera-arms.de do conversion kits for the HK SL8 to make it more like the G36.
They are very good quality,seeing they are made in Germany.

hahaha As far off topid as we are I didnt want to go down that road but thats spot on !

gunhappy_ie

FISMA wrote: »

GunHappy,
Did you have that here or did you live abroad? Very sweet shooter - can't miss with those peep sights.

In the US these poor auld rifles were yet another illegitimate child of the Clinton era. What a shame to force a single stack mag onto such a frame.

What size mags did you have? Did they ever make anything bigger than a 10? Was the scope/handle HK or aftermarket? Did you dye the stock or is this an SL8-1?

I had that here.... and I imported it myself.

As for shooting it is a very accurate rifle the 2 things that let it down are its trigger (no drop in replacements) and the scope i had on it (I just wanted to see and use the factory G36 scope because its a great bit of kit for what i wanted it for. The scope was 3.5x however it was still able to hit targets (however big :P) at 600yrds. Given a decent scope, its a tack driver out of the box.

Its now in the hands of a new owner.

From memory it was only the Sl8 1 that has single stack mags and the SL8 1 was the only gray model. My rifle was an SL8 5 already black with a double stack 10 round mags, there are now a few G36 30rounders knockin about for her :):)

As for it being a shame in the american market ... honestly i dont care ! In the US they have everything and want anything so they really need to be happy with what they have. The SL8 is soley a target rifle but americans convert them to look like a G36 because they cant have them.

Grizzly 45

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Thanks for the information lads as to the models etc etc..but......emmmmm!

What sort of prices am i going to have to contend with for theses units!

As gunhappy said it will have to be reliability over everything else and that'll mean a piston action IIRC.

Be prepared to throw about a grand and a half starting money on the table for anything S/A here.That would put you into a RemmyR15 in 223,which by and large is a good rifle,its made by Bushmaster for Remington,and in the ABC of AR15 thats is/was one of the top three[Armalite,Bushmaster,Colt]. The best well thats INMHO SIG,but then double or triple your starting money. I havent seen any AK style rifles here,so I cant give you a comparision.
Reliability,Well lets put that into prespective...Unless you are going to be defending Firebase IVHunter from a horde of spikey haired mutants,and you are going to have to put a huge ammo count downrange in a very dusty,damp or generally cruddy enviorment,with little chance of cleaning the gun.I wouldnt be too upset about NOT having a gas piston upper or action.The direct gas impingement system is fine for a sporting or hunting purposes.It's main fault is "it craps where it eats" IE blows gas back into the chamber to cycle the action.Is definately a problem in a military situation.However even nowadays with new space age coatings of non lube parts.The standard AR can be made run with a mouth full of sand that would choke an AK.So unless you want to add another grand to your price ,a standard AR ,if thats what you are going for is fine.

ivanthehunter

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Be prepared to throw about a grand and a half starting money on the table for anything S/A here.That would put you into a RemmyR15 in 223,which by and large is a good rifle,its made by Bushmaster for Remington,and in the ABC of AR15 thats is/was one of the top three[Armalite,Bushmaster,Colt]. The best well thats INMHO SIG,but then double or triple your starting money. I havent seen any AK style rifles here,so I cant give you a comparision.
Reliability,Well lets put that into prespective...Unless you are going to be defending Firebase IVHunter from a horde of spikey haired mutants,and you are going to have to put a huge ammo count downrange in a very dusty,damp or generally cruddy enviorment,with little chance of cleaning the gun.I wouldnt be too upset about NOT having a gas piston upper or action.The direct gas impingement system is fine for a sporting or hunting purposes.It's main fault is "it craps where it eats" IE blows gas back into the chamber to cycle the action.Is definately a problem in a military situation.However even nowadays with new space age coatings of non lube parts.The standard AR can be made run with a mouth full of sand that would choke an AK.So unless you want to add another grand to your price ,a standard AR ,if thats what you are going for is fine.

Thanks griz.
1500 is not a problem but 3000 would attract serious attention of the long haired financial controller:rolleyes:

Is the 1500 for a new firearm?... oh if only i was still working!! -- I'd spend 3k in a heartbeat back in the good old days:(

Grizzly 45

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Thanks griz.
1500 is not a problem but 3000 would attract serious attention of the long haired financial controller:rolleyes:

Is the 1500 for a new firearm?... oh if only i was still working!! -- I'd spend 3k in a heartbeat back in the good old days:(

Yup,that will get you a new one.Shop around,been quoted between 1150 to 1650 for the R15 here in Ireland.
Yeah,the good ol days.THAT was IMO a mistake, the stupid money we paid for over priced shooting irons here in the Celtic Tiger.

gunhappy_ie

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Thanks griz.
1500 is not a problem but 3000 would attract serious attention of the long haired financial controller:rolleyes:

Is the 1500 for a new firearm?... oh if only i was still working!! -- I'd spend 3k in a heartbeat back in the good old days:(

The last 3 firearms i bought i imported myself ... 2 before that i had imported for me so i knew there price in europe so i didnt pay over the top rates that are charged her. saved a fortune !



Since though your mire interested in reliability then a second hand rifle would be cheaper and just as good in the long term

Sparks

gunhappy_ie wrote: »

it was only the Sl8 1 that has single stack mags and the SL8 1 was the only gray model. My rifle was an SL8 5 already black with a double stack 10 round mags

Ahhhh. That's why the confusion last night.