is FFXIII worth it?

Retr0gamer

It's really annoying how there's a few JRPG franchises now jumping on the Monster Hunter bandwagon and turning into Monster Hunter clones. If I wanted to play monster hunter (and I don't) I'd buy monster hunter. I buy your JRPG franchise because it's a JRPG!

Mr. K

Retr0gamer wrote: »

If I wanted to play monster hunter (and I don't) I'd buy monster hunter.

Hang on, isn't Monster Hunter brilliant? I had Tri recommended to me recently, I was kinda intrigued?

On a Versus XIII note, being like Kingdom Hearts is good thing. Not very original, but suitably different.

super_furry

Mr. K wrote: »

Hang on, isn't Monster Hunter brilliant? I had Tri recommended to me recently, I was kinda intrigued?

I think it's rubbish. And badly designed rubbish at that. I bought Tri on adverts, but it's just a poorly made game. There's so much faffing about and messing with awful menus when you want to do the simplest of things, the game itself is a boring grindfest and online is dominated by super-hardcore players with godlike characters.

Retr0gamer

Monster Hunter just isn't for me. Tried a bit of Tri despite having played the beta of the first game years ago and hating it. It felt like a grindfest and I gave up. It's a poor mans MMO.

Mindkiller

Monster Hunter is terrible. Its success is bewildering.
It is kind of like the Japanese Call of Duty.

Dissapointed to hear that Agito is going to be like that. I was looking forward to a handheld FF.
Seems like handheld JRPGs are the only ones worth bothering with these days.

Mr. K

Good to know, I won't waste my time or money on it so!

Retr0gamer

Well you might like it. I'm just waiting on Gothpunk to jump in and defend it and he's put way more time into than me.

bruceyowens

bluemooner wrote: »

im an on/off fan of the series. i loved 10 and 8 but i wasnt very impressed with 12 and never got around to finishing it...
But what is the general consensus on this one, is it worth the money? what is the average playthrough time like?
opinions???

fantastic game, great story and the score is beautiful. i'd definitly recommend it if you're a fan.

Retr0gamer

FFXII divides the FF fanbase right down the middle. I think it's boring with loads of gameplay flaws and a terrible story that was obviously rushed because it could have been excellent.

GothPunk

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Well you might like it. I'm just waiting on Gothpunk to jump in and defend it and he's put way more time into than me.

Somehow I managed to resist. :pac:

I think of it like this - think about how multiplayer components have become the norm for many FPS/TPS/Action games. This is what is happening in Japan, it's not that they're making all the games like Monster Hunter, they've realised that the Japanese player base like local (e.g. Adhoc on PSP) multiplayer. So sure you have games like God Eater that are clear Monster Hunter clones, but then you have Valkyria Chronicles 2 and Peace Walker that take the mission based structure that previous games in the series already had and adapts them to the portable format.

So when people say Agito XIII is going to be like Monster Hunter, you should read that it'll be mission based and you'll be able to play the game alone or with friends - not that you'll be fighting giant monsters and grinding missions to get specific materials. Peace Walker is partly a Monster Hunter clone and look how that turned out - as an absolutely fantastic game.

landsleaving

My 2c on FF XIII

I put a LOT of time into it, I did some grinding, as much as it would let me, in the hopes that when the freedom that I'd so much about after 20 hours came back, I'd be well prepared for it.

Unfortunately I got sick of what is a quite good battle system. The battles themselves are far too long, even some of the lesser enemies take an age to beat and towards the end, there are enemies which can do little damage to you but can take 10 minutes plus to kill. It's intolerably frustrating.

The promised freeodm amounted to little more than a wider corridor in the context of the point you first arrive at it, and while I know I can eventually go back and fully explore and enjoy the area, I also know that there's little more to it than some even longer battles. Now they may be challenging, and some may be fun, but I#ll ahve to grind like a lunatic to be able to get anywhere and I just have no desier to do it. The battles, when they're done right, are exciting, tense and genuinely challenging. Unfortunately most of the time they're either too easy, too long or too hard. All the level capping didn't help, it just simplified things too much.

There's too little outside of the battles basically. I could forgive the linearity if there was some variety, but frankly, there isn't. All the quirkiness, humour and sense of fun has been ditched (like dressing cliund up and doing squats in VII, or IX.. just IX in general) Thre's no charm, just a terribly chessy script that sort of hooks you, then eventually frustrates as much as all the battles.

It's a pity, I loved it at first, but I'm maybe an hour from finishing it and I don't have any desire to play that hour. The battle system starts off well, but through a combination of giving, then removing freedom from the player, and the intense boredom of fighting the same enemies for way too long (both in terms of how many times I've fought them, and how long the battles last) just sucked my enthusiasm away.

I wanted to love it, I tried to love it, I put the hours in, I really tried to make it work, but I'm sorry Final Fantasy, things have changed, you've changed, and I've moved on. I can't do this anymore. I knew it was over a long time ago. I'd just be wasting both our time if I hung around any longer. I'm sorry, it's not you, it's me. Actually. It is you.

Aurongroove

Retr0gamer wrote: »

FFXII divides the FF fanbase right down the middle. I think it's boring with loads of gameplay flaws and a terrible story that was obviously rushed because it could have been excellent.

where FXII let me down was it's heartless forgettable music, try singing a theme from it, got anything? didn;t think so, yet I could sing several from XIII, X, IX, VIII VII etc.

also, the battle system started off well, but it sort of went bust twords the last of the extra dungeons and special bosses: The only tactics for almost all of these extra dungeons is casting Curaga constantly against hoards of undead, using the reverse/lure trick on other wise logistically impossible bosses (logistically impossible, but tactically brain dead) and having all buffs cast constantly in order not to die, and using espers (shemhazi, zodiark, and the gravity dude) for one off shots and for nothing else becasue they're as week as ****.

the game could've been massivly improved if they had a way of genuinely strengthening espers (ie, another licence grid area where an nesper might get +80 defence, or "come with auto haste", or upgrades thundara to thundaga, or and I'm sure the console could handle the processing power: enable multiple summons etc)

and also if they had some IN GAME way of guiding you to rare weapons and rare monsters,

for example the best knife in the game is a rare drop (like 1.25%) from a rare monster I've never even seen, another staff is taken from a rare monster which appears once and once only in a special spot, just after defeating another rare monster (which itself is a once off encounter!!!

And the system is too easy to cheat: 3 screens washes away all your sins, you can steal over and over from elementals (steal, run three screens away, return steal again) and do almost anything you want. for me thats as bas as the xItem cheat from VII, and well... the nentire junction system, lol, but at least the junction system has a kind of fun brokenness to it. in XII you have to get struck by break (only that one spell, nothing else) to have the final esper show you his summon sequence WHAT THE ****?!

completely potty. FFXII, was definatly my FFXIII, and while it isint as big a joke as X-2 was, it was still quite a shock to the system after the godly X, IX, VIII, VII, and let's face it, VI, V and chrono trigger

Retr0gamer

Actually I didn't like the soundtrack to begin with as well. I'm a massive Hitoshi Sakimoto fan and couldn't believe a soundtrack could be so forgettable. However I've since downloaded the soundtrack and it's actually amazing to listen the whole way through. The problem isn't that the soundtrack is bad but that the sound mixing is terrible. Square had one of the best soundtracks ever made but game prominence to the sound effects and left the soundtrack barely audible in the background, a total sin imo. The only tracks that stand out then are the bombastic ones like Esper Battle.

carbonkid

Aurongroove wrote: »

completely potty. FFXII, was definatly my FFXIII, and while it isint as big a joke as X-2 was, it was still quite a shock to the system after the godly X, IX, VIII, VII, and let's face it, VI, V and chrono trigger

I have to say im one of those who really enjoyed FFXII...really enjoyed the freedom and stunning scenery (unlike XIII you could actually travel to). Saying that, it still doesnt compare to X and almost everything before.

Hironobu Sakaguchi (original creator) retired from Final Fantasy after helping on X so i assume that has a large part to do with it.

NeoKubrick

Aurongroove wrote: »

where FXII let me down was it's heartless forgettable music, try singing a theme from it, got anything? didn;t think so, yet I could sing several from XIII, X, IX, VIII VII etc.

also, the battle system started off well, but it sort of went bust twords the last of the extra dungeons and special bosses: The only tactics for almost all of these extra dungeons is casting Curaga constantly against hoards of undead, using the reverse/lure trick on other wise logistically impossible bosses (logistically impossible, but tactically brain dead) and having all buffs cast constantly in order not to die, and using espers (shemhazi, zodiark, and the gravity dude) for one off shots and for nothing else becasue they're as week as ****.

the game could've been massivly improved if they had a way of genuinely strengthening espers (ie, another licence grid area where an nesper might get +80 defence, or "come with auto haste", or upgrades thundara to thundaga, or and I'm sure the console could handle the processing power: enable multiple summons etc)

and also if they had some IN GAME way of guiding you to rare weapons and rare monsters,

for example the best knife in the game is a rare drop (like 1.25%) from a rare monster I've never even seen, another staff is taken from a rare monster which appears once and once only in a special spot, just after defeating another rare monster (which itself is a once off encounter!!!

And the system is too easy to cheat: 3 screens washes away all your sins, you can steal over and over from elementals (steal, run three screens away, return steal again) and do almost anything you want. for me thats as bas as the xItem cheat from VII, and well... the nentire junction system, lol, but at least the junction system has a kind of fun brokenness to it. in XII you have to get struck by break (only that one spell, nothing else) to have the final esper show you his summon sequence WHAT THE ****?!

completely potty. FFXII, was definatly my FFXIII, and while it isint as big a joke as X-2 was, it was still quite a shock to the system after the godly X, IX, VIII, VII, and let's face it, VI, V and chrono trigger

A quote from Paths of Glory applicable to the love-affair with an outdated system and now turgid gameplay that some people don't want to let go: "Colonel Dax, you're a disappointment to me. You've spoiled the keenness of your mind by wallowing in sentimentality. You really did want to save those men, and you were not angling for Mireau's command. You are an idealist - and I pity you as I would the village idiot.".

Retr0gamer

But turn based isn't an outdated system, it's perfectly valid and I much prefer it to the real-time battles of FFXII that dragged out with little interaction. It didn't feel like a step forward for me, more like a side step. Turn based systems forme offer much more tactical oppurtunities in my opinion and game like Persona 4, Nocturne, Grandia etc. show just how good turn based systems can be. The fact is I much preferred their battle systems to FFXII or KOTOR which bored me. Other than FFX which had a superb battle system, final fantasy's ATB system was not a good battle system at all.

elekid

I liked the gameplay and exploration in FFXII but was deeply disappointed by the story/characters. If you could transplant FFXIIIs story and characters into XIIs gameplay it would make for a great game IMO. FFX was the last one I've fully enjoyed as a result.

(On FFXIIs soundtrack, I have it but never really listen to it because I consider it "boring", with a few exceptions. I must give it another chance).

Mr. K

GothPunk wrote: »

Peace Walker is partly a Monster Hunter clone and look how that turned out - as an absolutely fantastic game.

I'm finishing Portable Ops before I play PW, I can't wait! I've had Portable Ops since 2007, it didn't grab me then. I'm loving it now though, I hear PW is better in every way.

Why has no one +1'd my comment about Lightning's pretty hair...?

elekid

Mr. K wrote: »

Why has no one +1'd my comment about Lightning's pretty hair...?

She does have pretty hair, but I preferred the way her scarf moved when she ran so I always played as her when I could. Talk about stretching for reasons to like the game

Cyzrane

FFXIII is utter tripe and no other series on the face of the planet would get away with the incredible disdain with which it treats its fanbase. So, no it's not worth it.

People really have to abandon the brand loyalty they have to the Final Fantasy series. I loved them when I was younger, in particular VI, VII and IX (to a lesser extent also VIII), but just because I loved those games doesn't mean I should keep feeding Square-Enix all my money for churning out sub-par products from the "JRPG-O-Matic". Whatever vestiges of pride and fun that Final Fantasy held are long gone, and now they're just swindling their fans with barefaced cheek.

Show Square-Enix that you're not just a magpie with money attached to it; show them that you won't just be attracted to a new, shiny box with the Final Fantasy label and an androgynous teenager on the front. They, in an ironic fashion, have become like the very villains they have created: bloated and self-important and corrupted to the core by their avarice.

...So yeah, don't buy FFXIII.

NeoKubrick

Retr0gamer wrote: »

But turn based isn't an outdated system, it's perfectly valid and I much prefer it to the real-time battles of FFXII that dragged out with little interaction. It didn't feel like a step forward for me, more like a side step. Turn based systems forme offer much more tactical oppurtunities in my opinion and game like Persona 4, Nocturne, Grandia etc. show just how good turn based systems can be. The fact is I much preferred their battle systems to FFXII or KOTOR which bored me. Other than FFX which had a superb battle system, final fantasy's ATB system was not a good battle system at all.

When I refer to an outdated system, I'm referring to a static, turn-based, random battle, exploration game. The primordial design of it was borne out of necessity rather than choice: eliminating creation of bigger environments and scripted enemies and allies, and implementation of basic AI methods - all time/memory/graphic-intensive tasks. The tech for gaming has improved and there's no excuse for this game design, because what once was a clever circumvent of the limitations of archaic technology is now pure and simple lazy game design.

Fire Emblem is one of the greatest examples of a great turn-based game. That said, it took another developer to take its concept to next-gen (see: Valkyrie Chronicles), and the result was great, too. In both of these cases, the progression of the game is by missions you have to complete; there is no exploratory gameplay and hence, no random battles. It doesn't give the player the freedom of exploring a world, and take that freedom back, usually an interruption (random battle), by restricting the player to a static position in battle: that dichotomy is absent.


We'll have this debate to the end of time, but when HardcoreGaming101 publish an article detailing how under-appreciated and great FFXII is, you're going to create a thread in the main games forum, and you're going to sticky it. In said thread, you'll extol the virtues of your God: no longer HG101, but me. :P

Retr0gamer

Sorry to disprove your theory about me being an automaton and only taking my opinions from HG101 and Jermey Parish but both websites already have articles saying how great FFXII is and HG101 forums have plenty of threads with people arguing if FFXII is good or bad and it's firmly split down the middle. I disagree with the HG101 and Jeremy Parish article.

It seems all you want are games to become more sandbox and open but I believe that there is room for games that are more linear based and turn based. Just because a game is linear or turn based doesn't automatically make it a bad game or make it anymore inferior to a game that is open world or in real time. I don't want to live in a world were turn based games and linear games are made totally redundant because they offer a totally different game experience and one that I prefer. Openworld games will never be as tightly designed as a linear experience and no matter what you think but turn based games offer a totally different experience to real time games and not an inferior experience either. I'd hate to have variety in gaming killed off which seems to be slowly happening at the moment.

Cyzrane

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Sorry to disprove your theory about me being an automaton and only taking my opinions from HG101 and Jermey Parish but both websites already have articles saying how great FFXII is and HG101 forums have plenty of threads with people arguing if FFXII is good or bad and it's firmly split down the middle. I disagree with the HG101 and Jeremy Parish article.

It seems all you want are games to become more sandbox and open but I believe that there is room for games that are more linear based and turn based. Just because a game is linear or turn based doesn't automatically make it a bad game or make it anymore inferior to a game that is open world or in real time. I don't want to live in a world were turn based games and linear games are made totally redundant because they offer a totally different game experience and one that I prefer. Openworld games will never be as tightly designed as a linear experience and no matter what you think but turn based games offer a totally different experience to real time games and not an inferior experience either. I'd hate to have variety in gaming killed off which seems to be slowly happening at the moment.

You're absolutely right about the "variety in gaming" crawling towards a slow death. The latest generation of games in particular has shown a pretty worrying lack of imagination and creativity. Scary, isn't it?

As for linear games, they're probably the preferred method of constructing an RPG. After all, an RPG should all be about an engaging story and, as you say, that is more easily and coherently achieved by a more linear construction. I suppose the sandbox argument would be to make the world more believable and engrossing, but that takes a backseat to story in my mind. I suppose that's really more personal taste though; I hold storytelling and plot as the most important facets of a game.

Ah, and FFXII...that's a sad tale indeed of a corporation's greedy and callous destruction of what otherwise would've been a good game. Damn you Vaan...damn you to hell...you are emblematic of all that is wrong with Square-Enix; you are corruption made manifest.

seraphimvc

NeoKubrick wrote: »

When I refer to an outdated system, I'm referring to a static, turn-based, random battle, exploration game. The primordial design of it was borne out of necessity rather than choice: eliminating creation of bigger environments and scripted enemies and allies, and implementation of basic AI methods - all time/memory/graphic-intensive tasks. The tech for gaming has improved and there's no excuse for this game design, because what once was a clever circumvent of the limitations of archaic technology is now pure and simple lazy game design.

Fire Emblem is one of the greatest examples of a great turn-based game. That said, it took another developer to take its concept to next-gen (see: Valkyrie Chronicles), and the result was great, too. In both of these cases, the progression of the game is by missions you have to complete; there is no exploratory gameplay and hence, no random battles. It doesn't give the player the freedom of exploring a world, and take that freedom back, usually an interruption (random battle), by restricting the player to a static position in battle: that dichotomy is absent.


We'll have this debate to the end of time, but when HardcoreGaming101 publish an article detailing how under-appreciated and great FFXII is, you're going to create a thread in the main games forum, and you're going to sticky it. In said thread, you'll extol the virtues of your God: no longer HG101, but me. :P

ah now, KOTOR/ff12's offline MMORPG system = innovative while 'traditional' turn base system = lazy and inferior???my BS alarm just blown off.

the turn base system of FireEmblem existed for more than 20/30 years, along with the SuperRobotWar series( and some games like FFT,FFTA,Grandia) has existed for a long long time, this kinda turn based battle RPGs are called SRPG(Strategy RPG).

i see no problem of annoying,lazy or taking-away-the-fun from the random battle turn base battle like in the old FFs(I-X) - is just that for some unknown reason people nowadays just hated that. in FF7 i was awed by the world map,didnt everyone?? i can still recall when i saw the awesome Diamond Weapon walking towards Midgar!!random battle interrupt me exploring the world? *second BS alarm blown off* speaking of which,taking away the airship exploring world map really took away alot of fun.

GTA, Sims, or the Little big planet were fun at first but i get bored really quickly after few hours - this kinda 'innovative sandbox open' games are pure lazy at capturing us player's attention (at some point saying). is like if i am a woman i am going out with a lad but i plan everything else lol whats the point of going out with this guy then? might as well get a doll or something :pac:

KOTOR and Mass Effect are great is not because of their free environment but is because of their story is compelling and as a player of the game i feel myself get immersed to their universe/story. is RPG we are talking here, Role playing game.

Retr0gamer

I think we are getting a bit too harsh on western RPGs. The battle systems might not be as balanced and finely toned than the JRPG equivalent but WRPGs are much more open and closer to the original meaning of role playing game. They make up for the battle system by being far more open and also giving the player a lot more choice and control over the story. There's room for both types of game.

Headshot

you know what im replaying ff9 after all these years and man im really enjoying it, miles better than than that trash they call ff13

carbonkid

Headshot wrote: »

you know what im replaying ff9 after all these years and man im really enjoying it, miles better than than that trash they call ff13

Theres something very special about FFIX alright...shame its probably one of the least popular of the series. In fact everything that is lacking in XIII you will find in IX.

NeoKubrick

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Sorry to disprove your theory about me being an automaton and only taking my opinions from HG101 and Jermey Parish but both websites already have articles saying how great FFXII is and HG101 forums have plenty of threads with people arguing if FFXII is good or bad and it's firmly split down the middle. I disagree with the HG101 and Jeremy Parish article.

It seems all you want are games to become more sandbox and open but I believe that there is room for games that are more linear based and turn based. Just because a game is linear or turn based doesn't automatically make it a bad game or make it anymore inferior to a game that is open world or in real time. I don't want to live in a world were turn based games and linear games are made totally redundant because they offer a totally different game experience and one that I prefer. Openworld games will never be as tightly designed as a linear experience and no matter what you think but turn based games offer a totally different experience to real time games and not an inferior experience either. I'd hate to have variety in gaming killed off which seems to be slowly happening at the moment.

That's a narrow interpretation of my post. Fire Emblem is one of my favourite series, which is linear and turn-based. I referred directly to the system I think is outdated, not linear or/and turn-based as a whole. And I don't think you're an automaton for HG101, but you really should dismantle the shrine already; that Jeremy Parish voodoo doll is worn out.

seraphimvc wrote: »

ah now, KOTOR/ff12's offline MMORPG system = innovative while 'traditional' turn base system = lazy and inferior???my BS alarm just blown off.

the turn base system of FireEmblem existed for more than 20/30 years, along with the SuperRobotWar series( and some games like FFT,FFTA,Grandia) has existed for a long long time, this kinda turn based battle RPGs are called SRPG(Strategy RPG).

i see no problem of annoying,lazy or taking-away-the-fun from the random battle turn base battle like in the old FFs(I-X) - is just that for some unknown reason people nowadays just hated that. in FF7 i was awed by the world map,didnt everyone?? i can still recall when i saw the awesome Diamond Weapon walking towards Midgar!!random battle interrupt me exploring the world? *second BS alarm blown off* speaking of which,taking away the airship exploring world map really took away alot of fun.

GTA, Sims, or the Little big planet were fun at first but i get bored really quickly after few hours - this kinda 'innovative sandbox open' games are pure lazy at capturing us player's attention (at some point saying). is like if i am a woman i am going out with a lad but i plan everything else lol whats the point of going out with this guy then? might as well get a doll or something :pac:

KOTOR and Mass Effect are great is not because of their free environment but is because of their story is compelling and as a player of the game i feel myself get immersed to their universe/story. is RPG we are talking here, Role playing game.

I don't follow your argument, if there exists one somewhere in your post. You're the first to mention KOTOR and Mass Effect: strawman argument. We had this discussion before about Final Fantasy XII and I suggest you re-read it.

I know the classification that subset of RPGs is given. Fire Emblem was the founding game of the genre; hence, I mentioned its contemporary versions as the pinnacle. I can't assume what year you're living in, but games of that type are twenty years old since the release of the original Fire Emblem in 1990. It's a bit silly to talk from a position of knowledge to someone who's more informed about the topic than you are.

To further illustrate this point, you have a twisted definition of what role-play is, and what a role-playing game is supposed to be. A role-playing game is one where you're given a character in which the narrative is created by you: this is called emergent narrative and the best examples of it are Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and Fallout 3 -a Western developer by the name of Bethesda Game Studios created all three. How does one role-play in a linear narrative which by definition is entirely defined how it is written and how it turns out? What part can you play the role of a character and act freely in a narrative that is already written and decided upon? You talk of a bs alarm, but it was set to 6AM and you're sleeping in past midday.

seraphimvc

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I think we are getting a bit too harsh on western RPGs. The battle systems might not be as balanced and finely toned than the JRPG equivalent but WRPGs are much more open and closer to the original meaning of role playing game. They make up for the battle system by being far more open and also giving the player a lot more choice and control over the story. There's room for both types of game.

JRPG and WRPG has their own uniqueness - different pros and cons in different player's eyes, as player we just need to find a way to enjoy the game (regardless it is a JRPG/WRPG) it also gets abit complicated when it gets down to the culture thingy, deep down JRPG/WRPG has their own different eastern/western design mindset. i think the open battle system did compliment to the role playing in WRPG but in the end of day if it is not story driven i probably wont be able to finish them(same to any JRPG).

i just dont like the nonsense of saying WRPG > JRPG or the other way around, they are made by different people who grew up from different culture, and players grew up from different culture obviously have a personal preference towards one of them. for myself i am just a player who can fully enjoy my british tea as well as the green tea

it is really strange when i think back of the old FF(4-X) now.i can really easily recall many scenes and music if one asks me about them. ff12 is a weak one(can recall the capital city,mines area and Baltheir and Fran :pac:) while for ff13 i can only remember the lesbo ending, annoying characters and gran pulse :pac: which one is a weaker FF i am not sure, but i spent more time and get less annoyed by FF12 is for sure!

seraphimvc

NeoKubrick wrote: »

That's a narrow interpretation of my post. Fire Emblem is one of my favourite series, which is linear and turn-based. I referred directly to the system I think is outdated, not linear or/and turn-based as a whole. And I don't think you're an automaton for HG101, but you really should dismantle the shrine already; that Jeremy Parish voodoo doll is worn out.


I don't follow your argument, if there exists one somewhere in your post. You're the first to mention KOTOR and Mass Effect: strawman argument. We had this discussion before about Final Fantasy XII and I suggest you re-read it.

I know the classification that subset of RPGs is given. Fire Emblem was the founding game of the genre; hence, I mentioned its contemporary versions as the pinnacle. I can't assume what year you're living in, but games of that type are twenty years old since the release of the original Fire Emblem in 1990. It's a bit silly to talk from a position of knowledge to someone who's more informed about the topic than you are.

To further illustrate this point, you have a twisted definition of what role-play is, and what a role-playing game is supposed to be. A role-playing game is one where you're given a character in which the narrative is created by you: this is called emergent narrative and the best examples of it are Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and Fallout 3 -a Western developer by the name of Bethesda Game Studios created all three. How does one role-play in a linear narrative which by definition is entirely defined how it is written and how it turns out? What part can you play the role of a character and act freely in a narrative that is already written and decided upon? You talk of a bs alarm, but it was set to 6AM and you're sleeping in past midday.

i didnt read your post before that so sorry if i misread what you meant

i am not 100% sure how long SRPG has existed, so i typed in a roughly 20/30 years = 20-30 years, obviously 30years is abit off, 1990-2010 is about 20yrs so my point is still valid. ah man,the time frame wasnt the main point, all i meant was SRPG existed a long long time, its turn based system is considered a 'traditional turn base system' and is a uniqueness in SRPGs.

so you were saying that the 'traditional random encounter, turn base system'(of old FFs) is outdated, lazy and inferior and partly of that due to hardware/technology restriction, but you praised the SRPG system which is the same thing since 20years ago?also, you simply cant compare SRPG system to other normal RPGs system like the FF series, it is a unique system only works on SRPG(FFT tried that and it is awesome),which is also why it is called Strategy RPG in the first place. It is abit contradicting that you compliment the old SRPG system and calling the traditional RPG system 'outdated'. you can see the brilliantness of SPRG system but not on traditional turn base system(you called that outdated)?

Elder scroll and Fallout are good stuffs indeed:) to me, i dont like fancy words to explain RPG - Role playing game can be anything,anything that can get me immersed into the characters, touched by their stories, that RPG can takes me for a unforgetable adventure. whats the wrong with the designated story line, 'closed environment', linear-ness of the JRPG?if it can gets me into the story and enjoy this product of entertainemnt, so be it. like you watch any movies, do you really need to see yourself in that movie to feel it?

the story of ff13 is sh!t is not because it is linear, it is because it has sh!t story so it looks linear to player.ff7 has a damn linear story line,but did it make you feel linear?

i am just a player who can fully enjoy my british tea and green tea:)