Nama developer Gannon gets local area plan approval for Swords project

ragg

Alan Farrell wrote: »

I'm not insulted by a factual statement. Yes, he is a major investor in the club but why is that relevant to this debate?

Well, you seem to be very in favour of this development and I'd like to know on the record what kind of relationship you have with Mr Gannon.

Its not a slight on you, I've no doubt you are a very honourable person. However, given all thats gone on lately, i'd like to see a definitive statement on this..

Alan Farrell

ragg wrote: »

Well, you seem to be very in favour of this development and I'd like to know on the record what kind of relationship you have with Mr Gannon.

Its not a slight on you, I've no doubt you are a very honourable person. However, given all thats gone on lately, i'd like to see a definitive statement on this..

Are you reading the same thread that I am?

How did you get from my comments on this matter that I am in favour of "this development". My statement, "did not form an opinion on this LAP" is fairly clear and unambiguous.

Its a very big slight on me Ragg even if you dress it up to which I should probably not respond to but if it helps, I don't know him at all. Considering that you are an anonymous poster on an anonymous website, that's about as many questions from you that I am prepared to answer.

I should remind you that this isn't relevant to the discussion either.

ragg

Alan Farrell wrote: »

Are you reading the same thread that I am?

How did you get from my comments on this matter that I am in favour of "this development". My statement, "did not form an opinion on this LAP" is fairly clear and unambiguous.

Its a very big slight on me Ragg even if you dress it up to which I should probably not respond to but if it helps, I don't know him at all. Considering that you are an anonymous poster on an anonymous website, that's about as many questions from you that I am prepared to answer.

I should remind you that this isn't relevant to the discussion either.

I think its quite important to the discussion.I'm open to corretion here, but don't FCC and Mr Gannon fund Sporting fingal? Like I said, there seems to be, at the very least, financial links between too many parties, all above board im sure. However, im not comfortable with whats going on.

I respect your right not to reply, as im sure you can respect my scepticism.

LeoB

dan_d wrote: »

Excellent advice.
There was recently a serious uprising in Rush (there's a thread here somewhere) over Eirgrid's work to construct a new interconnector. People are entitled to have their concerns and questions, but Eirgrid held an open information weekend sometime in 08 with all information available on what they were doing and why, to everybody. Suddenly realising that construction will begin in 6 weeks, and you're not happy with it so you start screaming is not productive. In that case, 18 months ago was the time to start screaming...currently arguments being made are founded on little or no knowledge of what is taking place.
QUOTE]

Thats a bit unfair in my opinion. People were not properly informed, They (Eirgrid) put up a little poster and most people DIDNT know there was a public meeting. Eirgrid despite denials are bullying their way around. Just my opinion.

I think if I read things correctly there will be a big need for houses and Fingal will be under severe pressure to provide them. I do wonder how many of these homes will be for the council? It is vital though that if we have learned anything from the past we must have roads, schools and open space ready when first residents move in.

Mr. Gannon in fairness has put substantial money in to most sports around Fingal. As far as I know he was mixed up with F.A.I when he got involved with Sporting Fingal.

I am not a soccer fan nor do I know Mr. Gannon

Eoineo

I'm not sure if everyone has got the message on what exactly is going on here though.

It's not a "development", there has been no grant of planning permission. It's a specific "Local Area Plan" which means zilch to Gannon Homes or any other developer unless they get planning permission granted.

I don't understand the whole "conspiracy theory"?

Frank Spencer

Just one thing worth noting here is that Alan F doesn't have to come on here and engage the users. He is doing it of his own free will and although it may be beneficial to him by raising his profile etc. it isn't necessary to throw some of the barbs that have been thrown at him. I do not know Alan nor am I a Fine Gael voter but kudos must be given to him for his willingness to interact and answer users question on this forum and I for one wouldn't like to see him discontinue posting. (Although I'm sure he's dealt with worse!)

Beasty

OK - last warning on this thread - no more getting personal, and no more off-topic posts, or infractions/bans will be forthcoming.

Beasty

Alan Farrell

Frank Spencer wrote: »

Just one thing worth noting here is that Alan F doesn't have to come on here and engage the users. He is doing it of his own free will and although it may be beneficial to him by raising his profile etc. it isn't necessary to throw some of the barbs that have been thrown at him. I do not know Alan nor am I a Fine Gael voter but kudos must be given to him for his willingness to interact and answer users question on this forum and I for one wouldn't like to see him discontinue posting. (Although I'm sure he's dealt with worse!)

Thank you for that.

I genuinely am not here for kudos, I'm just a firm believer in social media and if one post in 100 is useful to someone, then that makes it all the easier to put up with unfair remarks from some.

rubberdiddies

LeoB wrote: »

I think if I read things correctly there will be a big need for houses and Fingal will be under severe pressure to provide them. I do wonder how many of these homes will be for the council? It is vital though that if we have learned anything from the past we must have roads, schools and open space ready when first residents move in.

This is the thing, where does it say that Fingal, and Swords specifically needs housing for 10,000 people? Apart from the Lap, what study has been done and by what external agency showing this demand?

LeoB wrote: »

Mr. Gannon in fairness has put substantial money in to most sports around Fingal. As far as I know he was mixed up with F.A.I when he got involved with Sporting Fingal.

Unfortunately I think this is the crux of the issue right here. There are too many links between the developer and the council. Fair enough he may be a genuine sports fan and has a genuine interest in supporting local clubs (I know if I had the money I'd love to do such things), however the cynical perception amongst some people would have us think otherwise. Sure it's the whole Galway Tent thing that has us so cynical these days

ragg

rubberdiddies wrote: »

This is the thing, where does it say that Fingal, and Swords specifically needs housing for 10,000 people? Apart from the Lap, what study has been done and by what external agency showing this demand?



Unfortunately I think this is the crux of the issue right here. There are too many links between the developer and the council. Fair enough he may be a genuine sports fan and has a genuine interest in supporting local clubs (I know if I had the money I'd love to do such things), however the cynical perception amongst some people would have us think otherwise. Sure it's the whole Galway Tent thing that has us so cynical these days

Well put, its a sad indication of the cronyism thats rife throughout every aspect of public life...
Maybe as irish people we don't want to know, I mean i got threatened by mods on this board for even raising it. Not one newspaper has reported it.
I would have thought that that maybe we're odd & paranoid, but the dogs on the street are talking about this.. I just hope a brave journalist investigates this, as you can be sure as hell that no one in FCC or local government will.

The Hill Billy

What a kerfuffle!

ragg - You've ignored on-thread warnings & numerous PMs advising you (most certainly not threatening you) what to do in relation to your thoughts on this thread.

Take a month off to figure it out.

HB

PS - I may be pathetic & I may be a tosser, but I am not fat. I am just big-boned.

LeoB

rubberdiddies wrote: »

This is the thing, where does it say that Fingal, and Swords specifically needs housing for 10,000 people? Apart from the Lap, what study has been done and by what external agency showing this demand?



Unfortunately I think this is the crux of the issue right here. There are too many links between the developer and the council. Fair enough he may be a genuine sports fan and has a genuine interest in supporting local clubs (I know if I had the money I'd love to do such things), however the cynical perception amongst some people would have us think otherwise. Sure it's the whole Galway Tent thing that has us so cynical these days

On the first point you quote me on, You must only read comics. There are quite a few in the Swords area alone waiting to be housed not to mention the rest of Fingal. I have a pain in my Ar** reading about the difficulties people are in. Everyone knows that a lot of homes and homeowners are under pressure from banks and other lending agencies and this is where the first demand will come from. And like a lot of others it sickens me to see young people under such strain. There is also an ever growing housing list of Irish people waiting to be housed. Some are waiting a few years. Fingal can only build a handful of houses each year and if Mr. Gannon or Worzel Gummage builds them houses Fingal will take them. If Mr Gannon built 50 or 100 houses for F.C.C there would also be savings to the exchecquer as we would not be wasting money on renting houses, but thats a different issue. Where these houses are built might be an issue but you dont need a LAP or study to see we need them

On the Gallway tent comment!! I hope you just forgot to include the K-Club golf classics and the free handouts other Parties might recieve. All parties take handouts in some shape just to survive they just have different ways of doing it.

The only problem I have with Mr. Gannon is he gave my club no money. From what I have found out in the mean time is this man is quite generous not only to sports clubs but to charities. He got involved with f..C.C via the proposed Fingal sports campus for Lusk which he felt was good for the community. And just to clarify I am a G.A.A supporter but supported the Fingal sports campus as it was good for all the community despite the fact only Juvenile G.A.A could be catered for. We need more people like him to invest in local community projects and instead of being cynical we should step back sometimes and say Well done and thank you

rubberdiddies

Rather than attempt to insult me you gave a typical politicians answer and didn't answer my question.

I asked if anyone knows where the document/report is that shows we need housing for 10,000 in swords. You replied saying that there is a housing need and people that are struggling to pay mortgages now may need to avail of this housing.

Firstly that doesn't answer my question. I'm genuinely interested in seeing the proof that housing for 10,000 is needed. There are so many ghost estates around leading me to question how adding 3000 new homes is feasible.

Secondly you're assuming that these houses are going to be used for social housing. A certain percentage maybe but not the majority

Bluetonic

rubberdiddies wrote: »

I asked if anyone knows where the document/report is that shows we need housing for 10,000 in swords. You replied saying that there is a housing need and people that are struggling to pay mortgages now may need to avail of this housing.

Firstly that doesn't answer my question. I'm genuinely interested in seeing the proof that housing for 10,000 is needed. There are so many ghost estates around leading me to question how adding 3000 new homes is feasible.

Surely to God if you were that interested in find out you'd have looked for the information yourself? Or were you hoping it didn't exist?

I suppose you will pick holes in this but none the less here it is.

Eoineo

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Rather than attempt to insult me you gave a typical politicians answer and didn't answer my question.

I asked if anyone knows where the document/report is that shows we need housing for 10,000 in swords. You replied saying that there is a housing need and people that are struggling to pay mortgages now may need to avail of this housing.

Firstly that doesn't answer my question. I'm genuinely interested in seeing the proof that housing for 10,000 is needed. There are so many ghost estates around leading me to question how adding 3000 new homes is feasible.

Secondly you're assuming that these houses are going to be used for social housing. A certain percentage maybe but not the majority

If you feel that X number of houses is not needed in the area when the planning application is made. You can use that as one of the arguments in your objection.

rubberdiddies

Thanks for the link. As I said earlier i was genuinely interEsted in reading sch a doc and couldn't find it.

If I deem it necessary to lodge an objection then I will but only when I've armed myself with all the facts and this doc contains some of the Facts required.

I'm not sure why the previous two posters are trying to put my opinions down. What we all need to realise is that FCC are in debt to the tune of tens if not hundreds of millions. That in itself is enough to set alarm bells ringing and to question a decision that will affect 10's of thousands of people.

I work in the private sector having come from the public sector. The major difference is that if my Company was in so much debt, the CEO and a lot of the senior management would no longer be working for the company.

I'd love it if more people questioned major decisions like this. Luckily we live in a democracy and have the right to question things.

Believe it or not I am asking these questions because I'm genuinely concerned for the area because I love it so much.

I love the fact that if this goes ahead it will create thousands of much needed jobs. But I'm concerned that if it dies go ahead we will have more ghost estates, congested roads and further strain on our already crumbling water supply.

I think the veiled 'digs' in the previous two posts are unnecessary and I invite the posters to declare any conflicts of/vested interests in thus project if there are any

Beasty

Rubberdiddies

If you do have a problem with any posts, press the "Report Post" buttons and one of the Mods will look at it

I don't consider either of the previous two posts contained "veiled digs" at you - they were simply stating that if you have such concerns there are things you can do yourself to try and address them.

The fact that you do not know whether FCC is tens or hundreds of millions in debt is another example where you could check the facts yourself, rather than simply posting your own assumptions here. I do not claim to understand the financial position of FCC, but a quick look on their website suggests a balanced budget was put forward for 2010 (and a small surplus was brought forward from 2009)

rubberdiddies

Is this not a discussion forum to discuss and ask questions when I don't know the answer?

Sure if we were all to google everything then there'd be no point in boards.

I stand by all my points and questions

Eoineo

rubberdiddies wrote: »

I think the veiled 'digs' in the previous two posts are unnecessary and I invite the posters to declare any conflicts of/vested interests in thus project if there are any

What veiled dig?????

As I already pointed out earlier this is a LAP. It's not a grant of planning permission to Mr Gannon or any other developer. I do understand that you feel that this has been voted through without what you believe to be adequate consultation or engagement with the public. There's very little you can do about the LAP now other than initiate a judicial review (I think this is what is needed), so if you disagree with the amount of housing, design, whatever then you can object using the normal planning process.

Conflict/vested interest?
I've only just pulled myself back up to the computer from rolling about the floor laughing. What contact I do have with the Council is via the bit of volunteering I do in my community. I'm not a fan of any developer but in particular Gannon Homes is in my bottom 10.
I am not associated with, nor am I a member of any political party either.

rubberdiddies

Eoino I genuinely Wasn't saying you had a conflict of intereat, was merely asking in case anyone had it would be best to declare it.

Nothing can be done about the LAP I know but I don't see an issue with questioning a potential population increase of 10000. As I said earlier if it can be shown that the increase is necessary then great and I will completely accept that. But until such time I will continue to question it as I don't believe it is. In saying that I'm far from an expert on this which is why I'm posting here, to seek other peoples opinions

meditraitor

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Eoino I genuinely Wasn't saying you had a conflict of intereat, was merely asking in case anyone had it would be best to declare it.

Nothing can be done about the LAP I know but I don't see an issue with questioning a potential population increase of 10000. As I said earlier if it can be shown that the increase is necessary then great and I will completely accept that. But until such time I will continue to question it as I don't believe it is. In saying that I'm far from an expert on this which is why I'm posting here, to seek other peoples opinions

The metro north will increase the demand for houses in swords and surrounding area's.

Not condoning the craziness of the LAP as it stands.

Bluetonic

rubberdiddies wrote: »

I think the veiled 'digs' in the previous two posts are unnecessary and I invite the posters to declare any conflicts of/vested interests in thus project if there are any

I was one of the last two poster. What veiled digs?

rubberdiddies wrote: »

As I said earlier if it can be shown that the increase is necessary then great and I will completely accept that. But until such time I will continue to question it as I don't believe it is.

Any chance you can actually read the document I posted before you post again?

Beasty

I have already dealt with the "veiled dig" point in my previous post - can we move on now

Thanks

Beasty

Alan Farrell

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Is this not a discussion forum to discuss and ask questions when I don't know the answer?

Here is a link to the last seven Council Budgets.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/YourLocalCouncil/AboutFingal/OtherServices/Finance/AnnualBudget/

Fingal County Council, unlike the vast majority of local authorities is in a relatively healthy position. We can still afford to deliver services, unlike others.

I am puzzled though, why the reference? What does the Council's financial position have to do with this thread subject?

rubberdiddies

Bluetonic wrote: »

I was one of the last two poster. What veiled digs?


Any chance you can actually read the document I posted before you post again?

Have read as much of it as I can on my mobile but will read it in full later.

Do you agree with the plan and would you be in favour of a 10,000 increase based on what you've read?

rubberdiddies

Alan Farrell wrote: »

Here is a link to the last seven Council Budgets.

http://www.fingalcoco.ie/YourLocalCouncil/AboutFingal/OtherServices/Finance/AnnualBudget/

Fingal County Council, unlike the vast majority of local authorities is in a relatively healthy position. We can still afford to deliver services, unlike others.

I am puzzled though, why the reference? What does the Council's financial position have to do with this thread subject?

Thanks for the link. Will read it as soon as I get away from my finicky phone!

I have read and have been told previously that FCC were in debt to the tune of millions. Is this not the case?

If not then my next point becomes irrelevant:

If they are in such debt then that brings into question the competence of people making decisions. That in turn makes me question the competence of the LAP, hence the link

Bluetonic

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Do you agree with the plan and would you be in favour of a 10,000 increase based on what you've read?

I've absolutely no opinion on it.

Beasty

rubberdiddies wrote: »

I have read and have been told previously that FCC were in debt to the tune of millions. Is this not the case?

Completely irrelevant - most organisations that invest is assets that have a long life would expect to borrow part of the money required - very few organisations pay cash for property for example, and you would not expect those paying tax today to fund 100% of assets that future generations (and future taxpayers) will get the benefit of.

Now get back on topic

Beasty

rubberdiddies

Beasty wrote: »

Completely irrelevant - most organisations that invest is assets that have a long life would expect to borrow part of the money required - very few organisations pay cash for property for example, and you would not expect those paying tax today to fund 100% of assets that future generations (and future taxpayers) will get the benefit of.

Now get back on topic

Beasty

Not irrelevant at all and obviously my post is completely on topic in the context of what we are discussing. If you feel it's irrelevant then that's your opinion. If you feel I am wrong (which I could easily be) then by all means point it out but no need to claim I'm off topic.

The relevance of debt is that it is down to bad management. Not all debt is down to purchasing of property. And it's that bad management that make me question other decisions such as the LAP.
I'm glad people, like myself, are willing to question things. I thankful for the fact that we don't live under a dictatorship where we wouldn't be able to discuss and question such major decisions.

Beasty

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Not irrelevant at all and obviously my post is completely on topic in the context of what we are discussing. If you feel it's irrelevant then that's your opinion. If you feel I am wrong (which I could easily be) then by all means point it out but no need to claim I'm off topic.

The relevance of debt is that it is down to bad management. Not all debt is down to purchasing of property. And it's that bad management that make me question other decisions such as the LAP.
I'm glad people, like myself, are willing to question things. I thankful for the fact that we don't live under a dictatorship where we wouldn't be able to discuss and question such major decisions.

If you want to discuss FCC finances/budgets, start another thread - my decision is this is off topic for this thread - do not ignore my warnings, or more infractions will be forthcoming

Beasty