Nama developer Gannon gets local area plan approval for Swords project

LeoB

rubberdiddies wrote: »

Rather than attempt to insult me you gave a typical politicians answer and didn't answer my question.

I asked if anyone knows where the document/report is that shows we need housing for 10,000 in swords. You replied saying that there is a housing need and people that are struggling to pay mortgages now may need to avail of this housing.

Firstly that doesn't answer my question. I'm genuinely interested in seeing the proof that housing for 10,000 is needed. There are so many ghost estates around leading me to question how adding 3000 new homes is feasible.

Secondly you're assuming that these houses are going to be used for social housing. A certain percentage maybe but not the majority

No insults intended:)

Ask some on the housing list how long they are waiting to be housed and you will see there is a need for housing that Fingal dont have the money to supply. I also assumed nothing about percentages of houses but conditions will be most likely be attached to ensure there are social housing units if this project goes ahead. I cant supply you with exact figures but take a look around your neighbourhood, I look around mine and see over 100 houses being rented/ rent paid. dead money.

We have ghost estates all over the midlands from Kildare to Carrick on Shannon but thats not much good to someone in Fingal

clunked

I can think of nearly every part of Fingal Leo where there are ghost estates too. In some cases a more realistic selling price from the developer might help but some still think its 2006! Apologies if this is off-topic.

LeoB

I accept there are probably ghost estates around Fingal, I am just not aware of them to the same extent we have them all through the mid lands. Houses are starting to move again and places like Goldenridge and Seabrook in Rush have unoccupied units but not many and some of these have been sold only last week.

As I said earlier in thread the most important thing we do now is learn from our mistakes and ensure we have everything in place before any more building is done, Playground, school, paths, lighting.

Bluetonic

clunked wrote: »

I can think of nearly every part of Fingal Leo where there are ghost estates too.

Please provide examples.

clunked

It depends on your definition of Ghost estate, but I would say a substantially incomplete estate with at least 40% of units unoccupied. Some of those mentioned are complete but at least partly unsold.

Garristown Orchard
Delvin Banks, Naul
Cnoc Dubh, Ballyboughal,
The Grange, Ballyboughal
Weston Park, Oldtown
Oldtown Avenue, Oldtown
There are some in Balbriggan, one just opposite the entrance to Clonuske on Hamlet Lane never seemed to be occupied. I'm sure other posters have more in mind.

Fingallion

It is just approval of the LAP, and absolutely nothing else. As described in the post by clunked, there is a hell of a lot of ghost or partially occupied estates within a few miles and for sale signs on every road in Swords.
Assuming Gannon is successful in getting planning permission, which I imagine he will be as it will adhere to the LAP, where on Earth will he get the money? Would any bank (now) loan the money required to construct this scheme? BTW For anyone not from the area, the proposed Metro North's stops would be closer to Malahide than this development. I think this is all just civil service process and paperwork etc... which is ok, they have to take the long term view.

One further point, with regard to Gannon Development quality, please take a drive behind Eurospar in Applewood and 'enjoy' the delapidated houses and unmaintained park areas (grass and nettles up to your knees).... not something to be repeated hopefully.

PWEI

Fingallion wrote: »

One further point, with regard to Gannon Development quality, please take a drive behind Eurospar in Applewood and 'enjoy' the delapidated houses and unmaintained park areas (grass and nettles up to your knees).... not something to be repeated hopefully.

The large estate behind Applewood namely Thornleigh wasn't built by Gannon Homes, they initially got the planning permission but sold it on to Heritage properties. The un-maintained green areas are because the estate is still in the hands of Heritage and not Fingal County Council. Thornleigh suffers from the same problem so many other estates all over the country suffer from,where the developer won't finish the estate and the local authority wont take it over until they do. Us the residents of Thornleigh had to take matters in to our own hands and formed a residents association to get things done.
We made our own snag list for the estate which we recently passed on to Fingal who are finally going to put some pressure on Heritage to finish the estate. We're sick to our teeth of contacting the developer about the green areas
and asking them to come out and cut the grass but it falls on deaf ears every time and they won't even return our calls. I'll admit some of the houses look dilapidated but they're the rented ones and a lot of the home owners including myself make an effort to keep our homes and the fronts well maintained and clean.We even had a rubbish pick up day in the estate back in June but it's difficult when the you have no help from both the developer and Council.

Fingallion

All,
Gannon Homes have applied for planning permission ref F11A/0473 for 224 dwellings and F11A/0436 for 245 dwellings. these applicatons were made just before Christmas 2011. The timing of this application is likely strategic to reduce the liklihood of objections due to the Xmas holidays eating into the review period. The planning application is here http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Planning/SearchforaPlanningApplication/

I think it is important that this thread is restarted and that there is publicity brought to this. Gerry Gannon is pushed through the LAP and is now following up with the planning permission. This is a nice area that is very likely going to be a series of ghost estates if he goes ahead. Swords has a lot of available housing and remember folks, Metro North is off the table. Please, if there are any jounalists on here, can you bring some media attention to what is happening here. How is he fnancing these submissions and EIS studies? Are these architects and engineers paid for by the tax payer? We need this to stop. Vacant properties in Swords are not moving, do we need 500 more vacant houses and appartments (just phase 1 of his plans by the way)?

Ginny

Has the objection date passed now? The Application was made on the 2nd of Dec 2011.

Fingallion

Planning permission ref F11A/0473 for 224 dwellings is stamped 22/12/2011. This is still open to objections. I am surprised that this is getting no media attention at all. If anyone reading is adept at reviewing planning docs, it could be a useful exercise to see if the application is fully in keeping with the LAP.

Cardinal Richelieu

Fingallion wrote: »

Planning permission ref F11A/0473 for 224 dwellings is stamped 22/12/2011. This is still open to objections. I am surprised that this is getting no media attention at all. If anyone reading is adept at reviewing planning docs, it could be a useful exercise to see if the application is fully in keeping with the LAP.

Have you contacted your TDs? Someone like Alan Farrell who has a council and real estate background should be able to guide you through the documentation professionally and advise you with the correct course of action.

LeoB

Fingallion wrote: »

Planning permission ref F11A/0473 for 224 dwellings is stamped 22/12/2011. This is still open to objections. I am surprised that this is getting no media attention at all. If anyone reading is adept at reviewing planning docs, it could be a useful exercise to see if the application is fully in keeping with the LAP.

At this stage cant see Mr Gannon fckin up on a submission in these times.

So Mr Gannon is in N.A.M.A. But is this all his dealings or just certain projects which fell into trouble? A lot of the developers have quite a few trading companies so I just wonder about this. I dont think this will go ahead and I cant see Fingal letting it happen or planning authorities without proper infrastructure in place first

On the housing issue this is more complex than most realise ME included. There IS I believe a massive need for affordable housing no matter what ghost estates are around the country because The banks/NAMA seem unwilling to sell off a lot of these houses or let the houses go to people who have to trade down (in trouble with current house). So maybe Fingal are trying to get get some houses for people who are long term on housing lists. Rush has quite a few units of rented accomadation bought as investments or by people for their children and I think by H.S.E and S/W might be looking at a longer term view of paying out less rent to investors but rather take in money in rent. A shared ownership type situation where the coucil might be guarentor to buyer, take on some equity in the house and recieve a rent. This might not suit investors but it could take a lot of people out of trouble and our economey might start to move again in the right direction Maybe Im dreaming. One thing is Im no economist!!!!!

While I accept this particulr development has raised eyebrows and blood pressure Mr Gannon has done nothing wrong and IF it did go ahead one would hope clauses etc would keep a lot of business and jobs for N.C.D.

bernyh

Living in the applewood area, I wonder who built the apartments directly behind the eurospar in applewood, I am of the information it was Gannons.

Whoever the developer is they seem to be using the underground car park as storage as it seems to contain loads of construction equipment (I could be wrong but it's the immpression I get from the street) I often wonder why the owners are not removing the stuff that is clearly visible from the street.

I honestly dont see how this development could benifit an already flooded market in Swords, unless it was all social housing, we can't sell the housing already available.....

alexonhisown

No developer should get planning permission if he leaves a previous development unfinished. I live on one of Gerry Gannons unfinished estates and it amazes me how they can just be allowed to move on to the next disaster.

Mutley2009

Has this development been given the green light by FCC? I checked on the planning section of their website, it seems Gannon need to submit many additional pieces of information. Am I correct in thinking if they do not do so within 6 months of them being requested, that the Planning Permission will be deemed as invalid?

Fingallion

F11A/0473 for 224 dwellings and F11A/0436 for 245 dwellings have both been approved by Fingal CC now, F11A/0473 just yesterday in fact.
Does anybody know of a source of unfinished developments listed by developer? In particular, i am interested in a list of Gannon unfinished developments. Can't seem to find much on the google.

LeoB

God knows who is really behind this..

There are a lot of people looking to trade down according to some reports so if these are priced right and Fingal have learned from their mistakes this is one big opportunity for F.C.C to set very high standards in the provision of proper amenities and infrastructure.

There appears to be a little movement in the building at the moment. A few houses have sold in Rush and Lusk recently mainly because they were priced right and people could afford them even with a much tighter criteria for borrowing, two ingredients sadly ignored by Banks and builders in the past.

Fingallion

There are actually a lot of dwellings vacant in Swords. I think there is some unfinished housing also. 500 new houses are a lot to add into the mix. I know that people want to trade up and down but this would suggest people leave one dwelling for another, so a vacancy still remains. Is there really demand for housing? What about all the houses that are for sale already? About 100 on myhome.ie in the area. There is also a new town centre in the planning. Applewood, less than half a mile away has a few vacant premises as it is. Swords main street has quite a few empty units too.
<snip>

Beasty

Please keep to the facts and do do speculate over the motives of any interested parties

Thanks

Beasty

liffeylite

Fingallion wrote: »

There are actually a lot of dwellings vacant in Swords. I think there is some unfinished housing also. 500 new houses are a lot to add into the mix. I know that people want to trade up and down but this would suggest people leave one dwelling for another, so a vacancy still remains. Is there really demand for housing? What about all the houses that are for sale already? About 100 on myhome.ie in the area. There is also a new town centre in the planning. Applewood, less than half a mile away has a few vacant premises as it is. Swords main street has quite a few empty units too.
<snip>

s there much building actually going on in Swords or are these developments for planning only?

Fingallion

There is no actual construction in process related to the planning applications I have mentioned. FCC have granted permission for housing developments F11A/0473 for 224 dwellings and F11A/0436 for 245 dwellings. The former is still subject to An Bord Pleannala possible objections. There is also another application by the same developer in play for 800m of road spurring off from the Rathbeale Road for future developments. Financing would need to be in place for major construction, whether NAMA would finance it or not, I don't know (not sure if that is part of their remit). I am afraid that this particular developer will build the roads and the stub offs for future roads and nothing else. This is what has happened before in this area by the same developer. The roads through the fields adjacent to the new Fingal Community Ctr have been a blight in the landscape for a decade now. The department of environment has a list of unfinished developments and vacant housing throughout Ireland and there is quite a bit in the Swords area. Surely this should all be sorted before we build more. It seems to me that we are repeating the mistakes of the boom. Some day we will look back at this and wonder how we let it happen again.

loca

Can someone please tell me who has control or ownership of the orchard estate in Garristown north county dublin? There are beautiful houses just left unoccupied and I am interested in what will happen to them.

Like you all say its a shame they are going to waste.

martinn123

Probably, NAMA

loca

martinn123 wrote: »

Probably, NAMA

I have been searching the Internet & gannon homes called me back & said they have no involvement in any properties in Garristown!
They're not listed on the Nama housing list... Maybe im not searching right... Any ideas on where I could get the info?! Local council maybe?

martinn123

loca wrote: »

I have been searching the Internet & gannon homes called me back & said they have no involvement in any properties in Garristown!
They're not listed on the Nama housing list... Maybe im not searching right... Any ideas on where I could get the info?! Local council maybe?

You can do a planning search on Fingal co.co website, that will give you who applied for Planning, and take it from there.

Zoom into the estate on the Map, and it will give you a Ref No, then search with that Ref. No on the Web-site

loca

martinn123 wrote: »

You can do a planning search on Fingal co.co website, that will give you who applied for Planning, and take it from there.

Zoom into the estate on the Map, and it will give you a Ref No, then search with that Ref. No on the Web-site

That's sounds like a big help! Thanks!

clunked

Savills were the sales agents as I remember viewing. One sold last year according to the Property Price Register for €150k but the development looks fairly abandoned at this stage.

loca

clunked wrote: »

Savills were the sales agents as I remember viewing. One sold last year according to the Property Price Register for €150k but the development looks fairly abandoned at this stage.

No unfortunately that was one of the original privately owned ones that went up for resale!