Why do atheists spend so much time talking about religion?

antiskeptic

I'm curious. When I scan down the list of topics in this forum I see that nigh on every issue revolves in some way around religion, in the anti sense of the word naturally.

I know that atheists consider themselves to be defined as people who lack a belief in God but that shouldn't mean their sole interest is being anti-religious. Surely there are thousands of topics relevant to your position as an atheist that you'd like to discuss other than the anti-theist position.

Why is this? Why is it that the raison d'etre for this forum centres around (nay requires the existance of) an unbelieved in God. Should I suppose that if Ireland was 100% secularised there would be no topics of discussion left for atheism?

biko

I only talk about it when someone ask me my religion or there is a discussion about religion. I don't like when people push their belief in my face and so I won't disturb them with my non-belief.

antiskeptic

biko wrote: »

I only talk about it when someone ask me my religion or there is a discussion about religion. I don't like when people push their belief in my face and so I won't disturb them with my non-belief.

So you don't consider your worldview to be something worth evangelising?

Ickle Magoo

When I can live my life without fear of some religious nut job knocking on the door & disturbing my evening, my child being refused a place in a school because of lacking a baptism cert and no other part of my life is affected by religion or the religious unless I choose it, I will have absolutely nothing to say about religion - actually, I'd probably have a great deal more positive things to say.

They are unavoidably interlinked anyway, without theism, there is no such thing as atheism - one only exists because of the other and often as a direct result of the other. The forum is not just for atheists btw, give-away in the title. :cool:

King Mob

antiskeptic wrote: »

I'm curious. When I scan down the list of topics in this forum I see that nigh on every issue revolves in some way around religion, in the anti sense of the word naturally.

I know that atheists consider themselves to be defined as people who lack a belief in God but that shouldn't mean their sole interest is being anti-religious. Surely there are thousands of topics relevant to your position as an atheist that you'd like to discuss other than the anti-theist position.

Why is this? Why is it that the raison d'etre for this forum centres around (nay requires the existance of) an unbelieved in God. Should I suppose that if Ireland was 100% secularised there would be no topics of discussion left for atheism?

Because I like discussing these topics?
Because I enjoy challenging my positions and seeing if they hold up to scrutiny?
Because I enjoy learning new things that such discussions bring up?
Because I have other interests as well.
Because not all of the topics on this forum are "anti-theist"?

eightyfish

antiskeptic wrote: »

When I scan down the list of topics in this forum I see that nigh on every issue revolves in some way around religion

I wish Underworld were playing at the Electric Picnic this year. It'd be brilliant.

Zombrex

antiskeptic wrote: »

I'm curious. When I scan down the list of topics in this forum I see that nigh on every issue revolves in some way around religion, in the anti sense of the word naturally.

I know that atheists consider themselves to be defined as people who lack a belief in God but that shouldn't mean their sole interest is being anti-religious. Surely there are thousands of topics relevant to your position as an atheist that you'd like to discuss other than the anti-theist position.

Why is this? Why is it that the raison d'etre for this forum centres around (nay requires the existance of) an unbelieved in God. Should I suppose that if Ireland was 100% secularised there would be no topics of discussion left for atheism?

Atheism is a rejection of the ideas of theists. It makes sense then that most discussion in the Atheist forum will be about the rejection of the ideas of theists.

If I want to discuss Team Fortress 2 I go to the gaming section. If I want to discuss Predators I got the film section.

I'm not sure what the confusion here is?

Perhaps you can clarify, what would you expect to be discussed in an atheist forum?

biko

antiskeptic wrote: »

So you don't consider your worldview to be something worth evangelising?

No, certainly not evangelising

I grew up with a Christian sister and New Age mum and me fervent atheist, so can say we've pretty much covered every aspect of belief systems and no-one changed their mind.

smokingman

I think you'll find most atheists have much more to talk about besides religion.
Just so happens that this being an atheists forum, that's all there is to the subject....no belief in any god. Simples.

It's a wonderfully simple way of life after you crawl away from the oppression of religion and the only reason why we may seem to "go on" about religion in here is because many of us can't understand why the religious would choose to be treated so badly. We're humanists at heart

Ickle Magoo

A quick scan down the christianity forum reveals many of the threads are in relation to non-believers or are discussing people or sections of society or religions that hold opposing views - why would A&A be any different?

eightyfish

OP this is an atheist forum. Therefore it is going to be concerned with atheistic - and therefore also theistic - issues. We atheists all talk about many other things on boards. Just not in this forum.

Mr. Presentable

I think they've confused being non-believers with being dis-believers.

ChocolateSauce

I think the reason we talk about religion so much is because this is a forum which was designed specifically for us to talk about religion. Check our posts in other forums and you'll find that a far smaller proportion of posts are about religion.

I know that IRL I rarely talk about religion specifically. Atheists I meet (and myself for that matter) want to talk about something else, and theists I meet are even less interested than I am in me trying to convert them.

We're not one-trick horses. Tell me, if you reached into a jar with many different kinds of marble and pulled out only one, would you assume that all the marbles were just like that one?

NothingMan

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robindch

antiskeptic wrote: »

Surely there are thousands of topics relevant to your position as an atheist that you'd like to discuss other than the anti-theist position.

Have a read of the forum -- other than Fred Phelps and creationists, I can't think of anything which is persistently "anti-theist".

The "Interesting Stuff" thread is a good place to start:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054990656

Ickle Magoo

^^^^ talk about living up to your name...

Edited to add - Sorry Robin, that was meant for nothingman...:o damn you silly laptop and your slow typing flat keys

Pygmalion

antiskeptic wrote: »

When I scan down the list of topics in this forum I see that nigh on every issue revolves in some way around religion, in the anti sense of the word naturally.

If you go to the Computers and Technology forum nigh on every issue revolves in some way around Computers and/or Technology.

I know that atheists consider themselves to be defined as people who lack a belief in God but that shouldn't mean their sole interest is being anti-religious. Surely there are thousands of topics relevant to your position as an atheist that you'd like to discuss other than the anti-theist position.

There are lots of topics relevant to us that we like to discuss. These topics generally aren't relevant to Atheism or Agnosticism though.
People in the Computers and Technology forum also have interests apart from Computers and Technology, but they don't post about them in that forum, because it would be off-topic.

Of my 4,000 posts I'd say less than 100 of them are in this forum, so it's not my sole interest, it makes up less than 2.5% of my interest if you're going by amount of discussion it generates.

Why is this? Why is it that the raison d'etre for this forum centres around (nay requires the existance of) an unbelieved in God.

You're aware of the name of the forum right?
Why is is that the Computers and Technology forum exists only to discuss computers and technology?

Should I suppose that if Ireland was 100% secularised there would be no topics of discussion left for atheism?

There would be a lot less indeed.
We'd still probably discuss matters abroad if they interested us, and if the entire world was secular there'd be even less.
We'd probably still post funny comics/videos in the "funny side of religion" thread.

NothingMan

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

^^^^ talk about living up to your name...

Edited to add - Sorry Robin, that was meant for nothingman...:o damn you silly laptop and your slow typing flat keys

It was my weak attempt at humour about what could be discussed in an atheist forum if it wasn't peoples reasons for questioning/rejecting theism.

The Mad Hatter

antiskeptic wrote: »

I'm curious. When I scan down the list of topics in this forum I see that nigh on every issue revolves in some way around religion, in the anti sense of the word naturally.

I know that atheists consider themselves to be defined as people who lack a belief in God but that shouldn't mean their sole interest is being anti-religious. Surely there are thousands of topics relevant to your position as an atheist that you'd like to discuss other than the anti-theist position.

Why is this? Why is it that the raison d'etre for this forum centres around (nay requires the existance of) an unbelieved in God. Should I suppose that if Ireland was 100% secularised there would be no topics of discussion left for atheism?

Yes, but not for atheists. Well, not none, but certainly fewer. As Robin said, the Interesting Stuff thread is cool, for one thing.

Do a search for any poster on A&A - you'll find in most cases that this isn't the only place we post.

antiskeptic

King Mob wrote: »

Because not all of the topics on this forum are "anti-theist"?

True. But they do form the vast bulk of the discussion

antiskeptic

Wicknight wrote: »

Atheism is a rejection of the ideas of theists. It makes sense then that most discussion in the Atheist forum will be about the rejection of the ideas of theists.

I was under the impression that atheism was a lack of belief in God, an absence of belief rather than the preference for a competing set of beliefs (a competing set of beliefs being required in order to leverage the rejection of theist beliefs). Thus has the charge that atheism is a faith-based system been circumvented.

Now you appear to want it the other way..

I'm not sure what the confusion here is?

Perhaps you can clarify, what would you expect to be discussed in an atheist forum?

Something other than anti-theism?

King Mob

antiskeptic wrote: »

True. But they do form the vast bulk of the discussion

And the bulk of topics on the Christian forum is about theism.
What's your point exactly?

What do you think should make the vast bulk of the topics here?

nozzferrahhtoo

antiskeptic wrote: »

Surely there are thousands of topics relevant to your position as an atheist that you'd like to discuss other than the anti-theist position.

Why do you expect us to have particular things to talk about when you say „Surely there are thousands of topics relevant to your position“. As you said the entire position is defined as NOT being your position. What else would we talk about except the position we are defined as not having.

There is no other link between two people that are atheists other than they are defined not to be religious. That’s it. For example if you got a large group of people together where the only thing they all have in common is... they all do not play golf.... what "common subject" would they have to talk about across the entirety of the group except for non-golf playing that is "relevant to their position"?)) There simply is no other 100% universal topic there relevant to their position.

If you insist on labeling people by what they are not, you are going to result in really dumb questions I am afraid, without meaning to.

However, to answer your question anyway, despite it being a bad one for the reasons I just mentioned, the reason I personally talk about religion so much is I literally have no choice.

The things I AM interested in, and I talk about at length on this forum, other forums, with this user name and other user names are: Politics, education, science, sexuality, morality, ethics, the environment among others.

In EVER single one of those realms of discourse I am confronted by the religious, touting religious opinions, based solely on a premise that not one of them has bothered to validate… namely that there is a controlling non-human intelligence who’s wishes we need to adhere to.

I mean literally every one of them, and I mean literally daily in each of them.

I would love to wake up tomorrow and not read about, talk about or fight against religion ever again… ever. I want nothing more than to leave religion alone.

I… simply… am… not… let.

As long as ANYONE, including the religious, come into the realms of discourse I am interested in touting opinions without a solid or real or even ANY foundation, that they literally can not be arsed validating the credibility of… I will be forced to confront them, either on a personal level or as part of a group. Given the size and diversity of religion I choose to confront it as a group, on forums such as this or as a member of Atheist Ireland.

My motto on life is that if a premise appears before me lacking ANY evidence to support it, then I will move to have it removed from the discourse at hand. Given that there is not a jot of evidence, argument, data or reasons on offer that there IS a non human intelligence responsible for the creation and subsequent maintenance of our universe… I move strongly to have that premise removed from use in our discourse in our halls of power, law and society.

Put another way, I have NO problem with people having religion, thinking there is a god, and rotating THEIR lives around the concept. However when they publicly enter one of the realms of discourse using that belief in sentences similar to “We must X because God Y” or “God says X so now we are not allowed Y” I will immediately move to say “Hang on, you are welcome to your belief, but if you want to use it in this conversation then show it is actually valid and true before proceeding with it, or leave it out entirely”.

And it is not even that this request is unfair, unjust, or weird. We do it ALL the time. Take alien abductions and invasions for example. We have no evidence FOR or AGAINST the existence of these things. So where does it figure in our political, education, or scientific discourse? Nowhere. No one speaks for it. No one speaks against it. It simply is left out until such time as we find any reason to lend it an iota of credence.

We here generally just want your religion to be the same as this and I have never quite figured out what the problem is with that request yet.

ColmDawson

antiskeptic wrote: »

True. But they do form the vast bulk of the discussion

I suppose that a lot of people who would feel opinionated enough to post here would also feel antipathy towards theism.

Ickle Magoo's first post in this thread summed it up for me.

sink

OP I think you've got a skewed sample. Of course a board called 'Atheism & Agnosticism' in a section called 'Religion & Spirituality' is going to largely discuss matters associated with religion. But there are many, many atheists who post on boards but never even look at this forum. You can find them in politics, soccer, after hours and all others and they won't be discussing religion.

antiskeptic

eightyfish wrote: »

OP this is an atheist forum. Therefore it is going to be concerned with atheistic - and therefore also theistic - issues. We atheists all talk about many other things on boards. Just not in this forum.

My point was that atheism seems to concern itself with theism excessively, when there should be (I'd imagine) a whole raft of issues that could be addressed from the atheistic viewpoint. Morality struggles, sickness and death, life meaning, arguments that undergird your position. None of which need make any central reference to theism.

In other words: athiesm (as seen in this forum) seems to advance forward whilst looking back at theism for it's reference points. Whereas I'dve thunk it would turn around and move forward using it's own foundational doctrines as a reference point.

ColmDawson

antiskeptic wrote: »

My point was that atheism seems to concern itself with theism excessively, when there should be (I'd imagine) a whole raft of issues that could be addressed from the atheistic viewpoint. Morality struggles, sickness and death, life meaning, arguments that undergird your position. None of which need make any central reference to theism.

In other words: athiesm (as seen in this forum) seems to advance forward whilst looking back at theism for it's reference points. Whereas I'dve thunk it would turn around and move forward using it's own foundational doctrines as a reference point.

If you actually think atheism has 'foundational doctrines', then I don't know where to begin...

King Mob

antiskeptic wrote: »

Whereas I'dve thunk it would turn around and move forward using it's own foundational doctrines as a reference point.

Atheism doesn't have doctrines.

It's a lack of a belief in god.

Can you please state a atheist doctrine?

antiskeptic

sink wrote: »

OP I think you've got a skewed sample. Of course a board called 'Atheism & Agnosticism' in a section called 'Religion & Spirituality' is going to largely discuss matters associated with religion. But there are many, many atheists who post on boards but never even look at this forum. You can find them in politics, soccer, after hours and all others and they won't be discussing religion.

I spend time on other topics too but that wasn't really what I was referring to. What I'm noting here is atheism-as-a-worldview seems to devote all its time to anti-theism rather than getting on with the business of it's worldview.

In comparison (for example) the Christian forum spends significant portions of it's time looking inwardly at the issues that are raised internally by itself as a worldview. I know it also spends a lot of time in outreach/apologetics (which is to be expected given the 'Great Commission') but it's this examing the internal issues of Christianity that appear to be missing on the atheism forum.

Look at it this way: if everyone was a Christian the Christian forum would have plenty to talk about. If everyone was an atheist then the atheist forum doesn't appear to have anything to talk about. If you see what I mean.

Ickle Magoo

Like how a stamp collecting forum would discuss global philately, different variations of stamp, history of stamp, lick or peel, etc - and a forum dedicated to not collecting stamps would discuss why the hell anyone would want to collect stamps?

Deus Ex Machina

I think a lot of, but certainly not all, atheists talk about religion because it makes them feel smarter than other people. I don't think it necessarily applies to this forum, but in day to day life an atheist who brings up religion constantly does so because he wants to show everybody how smart he is to figure out the manifest logical problems associated with religious belief. I am not a theist, but I would gladly spend time with the most devout religous believer ahead of one of these rabid atheists who so often lack anything approaching tact, and merely throw out boring old refutations of Pascal's wager or rant on about Russell's teapot.

sink

antiskeptic wrote: »

Look at it this way: if everyone was a Christian the Christian forum would have plenty to talk about. If everyone was an atheist then the atheist forum doesn't appear to have anything to talk about. If you see what I mean.

That's because atheism isn't a belief system. There are no doctrines, no sacred texts no universal truths to be debated. The only thing that defines an atheist is a lack of belief in any deities.

It's the same thing with sceptics corner of the paranormal forum. If belief in the paranormal didn't exist, the sceptics would not concern themselves with ghosts, psychics and shamans.

We don't have a anti-Santa Claus forum for similar reasons.

robindch

antiskeptic wrote: »

True. But they do form the vast bulk of the discussion

No they don't -- anti-theism, in its broadest form, is a violation of this forum's charter.

Have you read much here which has made you think this? And if so, where?

Sam Vimes

antiskeptic wrote: »

I spend time on other topics too but that wasn't really what I was referring to. What I'm noting here is atheism-as-a-worldview seems to devote all its time to anti-theism rather than getting on with the business of it's worldview.

Atheism isn't a world view, it's a lack of belief in god. Atheism is defined solely by what it is not and absolutely anyone with any world view can be an atheist. What you are saying makes no more sense than going into the soccer forum and saying that you find it strange that all they talk about is soccer and spend very little time on "soccer's world view"

Sam Vimes

antiskeptic wrote: »

Look at it this way: if everyone was a Christian the Christian forum would have plenty to talk about. If everyone was an atheist then the atheist forum doesn't appear to have anything to talk about. If you see what I mean.

Yup, absolutely right. The only reason there is a word for atheism is that theism exists. If there was no theism there would be no atheism forum for the same reason we don't have a forum for people who don't collect stamps

edit: that doesn't mean that atheists would have nothing to talk about though. We would still discuss our various world views in the relevant forums

Mark Hamill

Anyone else getting any major deja-vu from this thread? Its just I'm sure I've seen the same ludicrous reasoning (atheists in atheist forums talk mostly about religion=>atheists everywhere only talk about religion) before? Anyway...

To answer points so far, atheism is the lack of belief in god. Thats it. There is no atheistic viewpoint on morlity, on death, on the world cup, only on the existence of god, so that is primarily discussed here.

Now when an athiest wants to talk morality, its fully welcome here, but the philosophical forum may be better suited, seeing as morality has bugger all to do with religion. Likewise death is better discusses in philosophy (for thoughts on what happens next) or biology (for thoughts on physical occurance during death), and the world cup is better discussed in the Soccer forum.

Now, the fact that most of the threads in this forum discuss religious related material is simply due to the fact that on top of peoples atheism, people also have opinions on the place of religion in various aspects of society. This forum happens to be better than others, as it allows for more general religious discussions (as its not tied to any one religion), and because here, non praisning of religious opinion isn't deemed inherently...disruptive.

smcgiff

antiskeptic wrote: »

My point was that atheism seems to concern itself with theism excessively, when there should be (I'd imagine) a whole raft of issues that could be addressed from the atheistic viewpoint. Morality struggles, sickness and death, life meaning, arguments that undergird your position. None of which need make any central reference to theism.

That's looking at atheism from a theist point of view. Atheism is an end in itself. I can see how theists can, for example, tie up their religion with morals, because it can be argued they believe their morals are connected with their religion.

A theist doesn’t believe in god(s), but can have equally strong morals. But that moral system would probably be discussed in a behavioural/science forum.

ShagNastii

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

I think a lot of, but certainly not all, atheists talk about religion because it makes them feel smarter than other people. I don't think it necessarily applies to this forum, but in day to day life an atheist who brings up religion constantly does so because he wants to show everybody how smart he is to figure out the manifest logical problems associated with religious belief. I am not a theist, but I would gladly spend time with the most devout religous believer ahead of one of these rabid atheists who so often lack anything approaching tact, and merely throw out boring old refutations of Pascal's wager or rant on about Russell's teapot.

I can't believe no one has commented on this. I practically never post in this forum but saw this topic on the main page and I must admit it is something I have thought about quite a bit.

I was raised Roman Catholic (like most here in Ireland) but like many people I have come to understand that logically the whole "theology thing" really does seem like a whole load of mumbo jambo. I understand in evolution and most things atheists say. So there is no doubt I can look at the whole almighty god thing (and religion in general) for the fairytale farce many here look upon it, but I don't.

I don't go to mass, I am intelligent enough to know religion is a delusion. But deep down I do think it is a nice thing to believe! Is this wrong?

I guess I'm passively atheist and I'm passively theorist. The whole thing seems like a whole "you're wrong we're right" and a "we've right you're wrong". In my view Richard Dawkins AND the pope are self rightest tools:eek:. Anyone understand my point of view.

What deus says I'll echo at times when I here someone activity say they are atheist I instantly thing "Oh Sh*ite, here is one of those people with a chip on their shoulder".

I hate to come across as someone who is pro catholic but I went to a catholic school. Is it that big of a deal, did me no harm?


Edit: As stated never really visit this forum so I had a look. First thread I noticed was about Joe Coleman. Just reeks of "Ha ha look at the stupid theorists, ain't we great". Why waste energy debating and discussing this plank and the drivel he spews?

Sam Vimes

antiskeptic, I think the problem here is the commonly held view of atheism among religious people as just another type of religion whose followers dogmatically follow atheist doctrine in all areas of our lives.

This view doesn't quite fit with what you've noticed in this forum, that pretty much the only thing discussed is religion and not the "atheist world view" that you would expect us to have if atheism was a religion.

The reason that pretty much the only thing discussed is religion is that pretty much the only thing atheists have in common is a lack of belief in a god or gods. The commonly held religious view of atheism is a straw man constructed for the purpose of dismissing our arguments because we're supposedly as dogmatic and gullible as any religious person and by noticing that we don't behave as you would expect such people to, it looks like you've taken the first step towards realising that. Congrats

Dades

antiskeptic, we don't have a church, so we have to congregate here.

Ickle Magoo

ShagNastii wrote: »

I can't believe no one has commented on this.

If it wasn't so oft repeated and rebutted, they probably would. It's impossible to state what you find ridiculous about religion without pointing out, well, what you find ridiculous about religion. The only thing more boring than these ninja rabid atheists I keep hearing about are the boring, debate stifling accusation that anyone refuting religious claims (which are still deemed perfectly acceptable to throw around, they are just belief and cute and harmless, it would seem) - and daring to use rationality to do so - is arrogant, rude, disrespectful, rabid and probably done by baby eaters.

I would also argue that whether attending catholic school did you harm or no is missing the point by several miles - it's about choice and baseless unwarranted interference; in peoples personal lives, education, law and politics.

m@cc@

antiskeptic wrote: »

Surely there are thousands of topics relevant to your position as an atheist that you'd like to discuss other than the anti-theist position.

Such as? Here, lets save some time, they talk about religion so much because they secretly can't get enough of it. Done.

antiskeptic wrote: »

Morality struggles, sickness and death, life meaning, arguments that undergird your position. None of which need make any central reference to theism.

Theres a Humanities forum for that stuff. I don't believe in racism, would it be silly for me to comment on racism just because I don't believe in it? Of course not. Take it outside brother.

ColmDawson

ShagNastii wrote: »

I can't believe no one has commented on this. I practically never post in this forum but saw this topic on the main page and I must admit it is something I have thought about quite a bit.

I was raised Roman Catholic (like most here in Ireland) but like many people I have come to understand that logically the whole "theology thing" really does seem like a whole load of mumbo jambo. I understand in evolution and most things atheists say. So there is no doubt I can look at the whole almighty god thing (and religion in general) for the fairytale farce many here look upon it, but I don't.

I don't go to mass, I am intelligent enough to know religion is a delusion. But deep down I do think it is a nice thing to believe! Is this wrong?

You go on to call Dawkins a self rightest [sic] tool, but to be honest, the statement of yours I've emboldened above strikes me as more likely to be perceived as arrogant than anything Dawkins says.

As for it being a nice thing to believe, please visit the Hazards of Belief thread.

ShagNastii wrote: »

I guess I'm passively atheist and I'm passively theorist. The whole thing seems like a whole "you're wrong we're right" and a "we've right you're wrong". In my view Richard Dawkins AND the pope are self rightest tools:eek:. Anyone understand my point of view.

Dawkins does not proclaim himself the creator of the universe's representative on Earth. He also admits that there may be a god and would amend his views if evidence arose. I think you're being rather harsh.

ShagNastii wrote: »

What deus says I'll echo at times when I here someone activity say they are atheist I instantly thing "Oh Sh*ite, here is one of those people with a chip on their shoulder".

This is the kind of thing that really annoys me. A lot of people seem to think that atheists should just shut up and stop spoiling the party, when really there are plenty of reasons to be outspoken against theism. Please read some threads around the forum and you'll find things that ought to make you a little bit prouder of not subscribing to religion.

ShagNastii wrote: »

I hate to come across as someone who is pro catholic but I went to a catholic school. Is it that big of a deal, did me no harm?

Even if it did you no harm, there are others for whom Catholic schooling resulted in a fear of hell, or perhaps years of struggling to detach themselves from the indoctrination of their childhood. That makes it a big deal, I think.

ShagNastii wrote: »

Edit: As stated never really visit this forum so I had a look. First thread I noticed was about Joe Coleman. Just reeks of "Ha ha look at the stupid theorists, ain't we great". Why waste energy debating and discussing this plank and the drivel he spews?

I assume you mean 'stupid theists'. Anyway, I really don't think the majority of regular posters here have expressed that sort of arrogance.

Overheal

antiskeptic wrote: »

I'm curious. When I scan down the list of topics in this forum I see that nigh on every issue revolves in some way around religion, in the anti sense of the word naturally.

I know that atheists consider themselves to be defined as people who lack a belief in God but that shouldn't mean their sole interest is being anti-religious. Surely there are thousands of topics relevant to your position as an atheist that you'd like to discuss other than the anti-theist position.

Why is this? Why is it that the raison d'etre for this forum centres around (nay requires the existance of) an unbelieved in God. Should I suppose that if Ireland was 100% secularised there would be no topics of discussion left for atheism?

Why do Christians spend so much time talking about religion?

I'm curious. When I scan down the list of topics in the Christianity forum I see that nigh on every issue revolves in some way around religion, in the strictest sense of the word naturally.

I know that Christians consider themselves to be defined as people who have a belief in God but that shouldn't mean their sole interest is being religious. Surely there are thousands of topics relevant to your position as a Christian that you'd like to discuss other than the theist position.

Why is this? Why is it that the raison d'etre for that forum centres around (nay requires the existance of) a believed in God. Should I suppose that if Ireland was 100% secularised there would be no topics of discussion left for Christianity?

Deus Ex Machina

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

If it wasn't so oft repeated and rebutted, they probably would. It's impossible to state what you find ridiculous about religion without pointing out, well, what you find ridiculous about religion. The only thing more boring than these ninja rabid atheists I keep hearing about are the boring, debate stifling accusation that anyone refuting religious claims (which are still deemed perfectly acceptable to throw around, they are just belief and cute and harmless, it would seem) - and daring to use rationality to do so - is arrogant, rude, disrespectful, rabid and probably done by baby eaters.

I would also argue that whether attending catholic school did you harm or no is missing the point by several miles - it's about choice and baseless unwarranted interference; in peoples personal lives, education, law and politics.

That is absolute garbage, first off you can't rebut the claim that there exist over the top atheists who love nothing more than to spout off at the drop of a hat, you have seen them as much as I have I am sure. Also, somebody who is ostensibly arguing in favour of logic shouldn't be throwing out straw men, I specifically stated that my criticism didn't apply to all atheists, just a particular group amongst them, you are the one who extendted it to "anyone refuting religious claims". I wouldn't be remotely surprised to find out that you are one of these annoying atheists who can't stand to sit in a room without telling everybody about the omnipotence paradox and that Jesus probably didn't exist.

Zombrex

antiskeptic wrote: »

I was under the impression that atheism was a lack of belief in God

It is.

You say something like "God exists, he is as described Bible, he wants to you to X, Y Z"

And I say "No, I reject what you say". I might say "because I think you are making that up"

If the only reason to base belief in the accuracy of your claims is you making the claims then by rejecting your claims I lack any belief in your claims. This includes lack of belief in your God, since that is part of your claim.

antiskeptic wrote: »

an absence of belief rather than the preference for a competing set of beliefs (a competing set of beliefs being required in order to leverage the rejection of theist beliefs).

I don't have to have a competing set of beliefs to reject your claims. It helps, but it is not necessary.

If you said "I just saw Tom Cruise and we played poker together and then we went to Mars in a space ship" I don't need to know what you actually did in order to reject the claim that you did that.

antiskeptic wrote: »

Now you appear to want it the other way..

If it appears that way to you then you might want to pay closer attention to what we are saying to you :P

antiskeptic wrote: »

Something other than anti-theism?

In general or on the atheism form?

Do you subscribe to the notion common with some on the Christianity forum that the forums are affiliation based, for example the Christianity forum is for Christians to discuss what they like, rather than a forum for the discussion of Christian issues.

My understanding is different, that on Boards.ie the forums are topic based, not affiliation based. The Atheism forum is for discussing atheism, not for atheists to discuss what they want. The Christianity forum is for discussion of Christianity, not for Christians to discuss what they like.

If I have a topic for discussion that isn't relevant to atheism I discuss it another forum on Boards.ie, such as discussing a film on the Film forum.

strobe

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

That is absolute garbage, first off you can't rebut the claim that there exist over the top atheists who love nothing more than to spout off at the drop of a hat, you have seen them as much as I have I am sure. Also, somebody who is ostensibly arguing in favour of logic shouldn't be throwing out straw men, I specifically stated that my criticism didn't apply to all atheists, just a particular group amongst them, you are the one who extendted it to "anyone refuting religious claims". I wouldn't be remotely surprised to find out that you are one of these annoying atheists who can't stand to sit in a room without telling everybody about the omnipotence paradox and that Jesus probably didn't exist.

Seeing as she doesn't do that in any thread on boards.ie she posts in that isn't specifically about religion I would be very very surprised if she was one of those people to be honest.

I don't know where you meet these atheists that can't sit in a room without saying "Jesus probably didn't exist" out of the blue Deus, but I have never come across a single one in my life. I have met a few where if the topic of religion comes up somehow they give thier view on it, but never anyone that would say "Oh.....you think Germany deserved to win the world cup? Well did you know in Germany 30% of people are Christians. Speaking about Christianity...................." I'm not a fan of Richard Dawkins at all, but I really doubt even he would be talking to someone about his summer holidays and suddenly go off on a tangent about atheism.

I think the problem is anti-skep and you to a lesser extent look at Atheist Ireland or this forum or something else where a group of people are grouped together specifically to talk about atheism or religion and say "wow some of those people really spout of at the drop of a hat about religion". Well.....of course they do. But when at thier weekly cookery class I can't really see them bringing it up.

Ickle Magoo

Deus Ex Machina wrote:

That is absolute garbage, first off you can't rebut the claim that there exist over the top atheists who love nothing more than to spout off at the drop of a hat, you have seen them as much as I have I am sure. Also, somebody who is ostensibly arguing in favour of logic shouldn't be throwing out straw men, I specifically stated that my criticism didn't apply to all atheists, just a particular group amongst them, you are the one who extendted it to "anyone refuting religious claims". I wouldn't be remotely surprised to find out that you are one of these annoying atheists who can't stand to sit in a room without telling everybody about the omnipotence paradox and that Jesus probably didn't exist.

And yet, ironically, I'm not the one scrabbling in the dirt throwing ad-hominems, am I....?

My post was in response to ShagNastii's surprise at no-one commenting on your post, it's an oft repeated and oft discussed topic in the forum, I very deliberately wasn't responding to your post specifically, for all the reasons I mentioned. Your post above just added a few more.

Zillah

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

I think a lot of, but certainly not all, atheists talk about religion because it makes them feel smarter than other people. I don't think it necessarily applies to this forum, but in day to day life an atheist who brings up religion constantly does so because he wants to show everybody how smart he is to figure out the manifest logical problems associated with religious belief. I am not a theist, but I would gladly spend time with the most devout religous believer ahead of one of these rabid atheists who so often lack anything approaching tact, and merely throw out boring old refutations of Pascal's wager or rant on about Russell's teapot.

This is me. I am one of these atheists. I love beating religious people over the head with my scepticism. I'll also throw a few digs at those supporting psychics, homeopathy, alternative medicine, prophecy or any other sort of magic. Their confusion, tears and offence is like nectar and wine to me. I savour it, I relish it. I don't care if they feel stupid, ridiculous or insulted.

Rabid? I believe the word you are looking for is "correct".

liamw

ShagNastii wrote: »

But deep down I do think it is a nice thing to believe! Is this wrong?

No, you're pretty much with 90% of the people in this country who would rather block their ears and live a comforting lie than face reality head on and be intellectually honest with themselves.

But that's OK, you keep living that way if it makes you feel better but please do not make out that being so passive is a good thing.

Nemi

Zillah wrote: »

This is me. I am one of these atheists. I love beating religious people over the head with my scepticism. I'll also throw a few digs at those supporting psychics, homeopathy, alternative medicine, prophecy or any other sort of magic. Their confusion, tears and offence is like nectar and wine to me. I savour it, I relish it. I don't care if they feel stupid, ridiculous or insulted.

Rabid? I believe the word you are looking for is "correct".

I wouldn't feel I go looking for trouble, which is a little bit of self-delusion as I do enjoy provoking people. I don't particularly want people to agree with me. For all I know, Jesus is a god, and the Pope holds his master franchise on Earth. Its not as if I'm going to be consulted by the Ultimate Power in the Universe over what seems like a reasonable system of governance.

As to the forum here, I'll actually slightly contradict what was said earlier about the focus of the forum being discussion of atheism and not atheists discussing stuff. I think it is very valuable when theists contribute to threads here. But, for me, I find the chief benefit on offer here is that we can read and react to views expressed by other atheists on that set of philosophical and moral issues presented by atheism. I'm not a Dawkins fan (is anyone?). But I do feel that a set of issues exists that do benefit from discussion.

Valid criticism can come from any source. But I feel what I've gotten from discussions here is some picture of where my own thinking might be deficient, and some picture of where atheists may share common blind spots. I've no particular interest in combining with other atheists to undermine the credibility of religions. In fact, some religions seem to be doing a pretty good job of undermining their own credibility, without any help from the likes of us.