Why do atheists spend so much time talking about religion?

magicbastarder

strobe wrote: »

But don't have the chap roaming through the corridors like a vulture hassling people.

i'm finding all this overblown imagery a bit bemusing. generally speaking, if the priest is being polite, he's just trying to help.

checkyabadself

strobe wrote: »

Religious people would. Like Mark said, by all means have a priest on standby somewhere so if someone wants a blessing they can have him come bless them. But don't have the chap roaming through the corridors like a vulture hassling people.

Exactly, you can seek a priest out if you need one, unfortunately there isn't the option to go to a secular hospital ( open to correction on this) where religious intrusion wouldn't be allowed b the hospital administration.

@magicbastarder.... Do you think it's appropriate to have priests randomly offering catholic blessings, in a cold calling fashion. What about a scenario of being approached by Muslim, Jewish, Scientology clerics? My guess is that the hospital staff wouldn permit that level of intrusion on their patients. I just go one further and take issue with even one intrusion.

magicbastarder

gbee wrote: »

It's the ORGANISED part of religion that I'd ban, the Baptism [of children], etc and so on ~ after all in John the Baptist baptised adults, Hitler wanted a child until he was seven ~ similar principals ~ all that is bad.

y'know, some societies have tried this before.

gbee

The dying comment and a priest, presumably this means a Catholic priest?

I hope I don't change on my own deathbed, but I've seen others who did call for the priest, despite a life-long hatred of anything in a black frock.

I'd like to think I'd stick to my beliefs ~ but none of ye will ever know ....

magicbastarder

checkyabadself wrote: »

What about a scenario of being approached by Muslim, Jewish, Scientology clerics?

if a significant proportion of patients in a hospital were jewish, i can see the logic behind having a jewish chaplain.
actually, is the word chaplain a christian word? does the phrase 'jewish chaplain' make any sense?

strobe

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm finding all this overblown imagery a bit bemusing. generally speaking, if the priest is being polite, he's just trying to help.

Histrionic? That is like a dagger through my heart. Like Ceaser feeling the dagger plunged into his back by Brutas. Must we really engage in this galactic battle of mythic proportions with our words. Woe, woe is me!

C'mon man, you know what I mean. Have the priest there for people that want one but he shouldn't be soliciting.

magicbastarder

gbee wrote: »

I'd like to think I'd stick to my beliefs ~ but none of ye will ever know ....

"now is not the time to be making enemies".

liamw

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I'd gain some solace from having a stripper in my hospital when I'm sick, and I'm sure I wouldn't be alone. Can we get them instead? Sure, more people may die from lack of faith, but at least we will go with smiles on our faces.

If you have a private room I don't see why not. Just hope that your family don't walk in during those visiting hours.

magicbastarder

strobe wrote: »

Histrionic?

i didn't edit that quickly enough...

Ickle Magoo

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm finding all this overblown imagery a bit bemusing. generally speaking, if the priest is being polite, he's just trying to help.

It's not amusing in the slightest being harangued by a priest in hospital, I can assure you and the assumptions its all politeness and doddery memory is what I find bemusing. I have an 80yr old relative who is a regular church goer who was giving out about a priest knocking on her door "every five minutes". Hospitals should be a place of rest and solitude for people to get well, people shouldn't be having to have words with over-zealous religious evangelist who won't leave them in peace.

magicbastarder

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

It's not amusing in the slightest being harangued by a priest in hospital

i'm not trying to defend such behaviour; i'm arguing against the idea that there should be no priests in a hospital; i'm not saying they should be able to get away with anything and everything.

Ickle Magoo

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm not trying to defend such behaviour; i'm arguing against the idea that there should be no priests in a hospital; i'm not saying they should be able to get away with anything and everything.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having a religious representative for each and every faith in a hospital, it's the fact they seem to do ward rounds here that I object to...

magicbastarder

my opinion of priests may be slightly skewed by the fact that i have known several who were quite happy to debate the existence of god, and where they got their faith from. so i'm used to discussing atheism with priests whose faces don't fall in pity when i discuss my lack of belief.

nozzferrahhtoo

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

You have misunderstood, just like the other poster. The point I am making is that I have met a few people the likes of which I described, and that they were excruciating to be around

I do not see how I have misunderstood you. Here are your exact words:

“I think a lot of, but certainly not all, atheists talk about religion because it makes them feel smarter than other people.“

You now appear to be changing this to:

“I have met a few people the likes of which I described”

So what I was pointing out to you is that your “hypothesis” about a “lot” of people seems to be supported by nothing except the small “Few” people you have met and you seem to want to extrapolate this anecdote into a generalised statement about what you “think” is true about “a lot” of people.

So again, I have to ask…. Aside from the fact you “think” it, is there any reason to lend this credence other than a couple of assholes you met on occasion?

Deus Ex Machina wrote: »

I never said it was anything other than a small percentage

You used the words "a lot" which IS "other than" saying it is a small percentage. Yet the words "a lot" do give the impression of more than a "small percentage". Maybe the reason you think people are misunderstanding you, is that you could choose your words a little more carefully??

Mark Hamill

magicbastarder wrote: »

put your belief about the efficacy of that blessing to one side for a second - do you accept that some people will gain solace from a blessing by a priest?

Sure. So let them call for one. There is no need to have one prowling around a hospital incase the sick patients dont appreciate their stripper.

Mark Hamill

liamw wrote: »

If you have a private room I don't see why not. Just hope that your family don't walk in during those visiting hours.

Just hang a stethoscope on the door

sh1tstirrer

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Aptly named I must say

No sh1t Sherlock.

Sam Vimes

sh1tstirrer wrote: »

No sh1t Sherlock.

Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine

liamw

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Well aren't you just a ray of sunshine

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=66960489&postcount=29

Watch out, he can hold his drink

MrPudding

strobe wrote: »

Like Mark said, by all means have a lawyer on standby somewhere so if someone wants legal advice about their accident they can have him come and tell them how much money he could get them. But don't have the chap roaming through the corridors like a vulture hassling people.

You could almost be talking about lawyers.

MrP

Ickle Magoo

MrPudding wrote: »

You could almost be talking about lawyers.

MrP

Ambulance chasers? :pac:

Coriolanus

antiskeptic wrote: »

My point was that atheism seems to concern itself with theism excessively, when there should be (I'd imagine) a whole raft of issues that could be addressed from the atheistic viewpoint. Morality struggles, sickness and death, life meaning, arguments that undergird your position. None of which need make any central reference to theism.

In other words: athiesm (as seen in this forum) seems to advance forward whilst looking back at theism for it's reference points. Whereas I'dve thunk it would turn around and move forward using it's own foundational doctrines as a reference point.

Most people discuss those issues in the relevant forum ie: Humanities (for real discussion) or in AH (when in the mood to troll).
For myself, my atheism doesn't inform any of my opinions on the above except where it rejects the religious status quo.
Not really sure how to explain it, but I'd wager most people here would label themselves as a humanist or liberal when asked for an opinion on a moral issue, rather than saying "Well, as an atheist I feel that x etc...". Contrast that to someone who's religious who identifies themselves as such and refers to that as their reason to oppose/stand for issue x.

eblistic

Nevore wrote: »

...but I'd wager most people here would label themselves as a humanist or liberal

Now there's an interesting point. I'm sure it's been discussed before but, seeing as our only thing in common is a lack of belief in deities we should expect a broad spread of moral/political outlooks. In reality there seems a clear tendency towards liberalism (making "militant" atheist jibes sound a bit silly really). I can understand why that is (it might only be relative to the apologists for authoritarian religions) but I'm not sure it's a good thing.

Coriolanus

eblistic wrote: »

Now there's an interesting point. I'm sure it's been discussed before but, seeing as our only thing in common is a lack of belief in deities we should expect a broad spread of moral/political outlooks. In reality there seems a clear tendency towards liberalism (making "militant" atheist jibes sound a bit silly really). I can understand why that is (it might only be relative to the apologists for authoritarian religions) but I'm not sure it's a good thing.

I don't know, I think it's fair to say that some moral and political outlooks are more inclined to atheism than others. Liberals are generally egalitarian and the notion of a divine omnipowerful authority doesn't tie too well in to that. Not to say that there aren't religious liberals, there are plenty.
It's probably worth a thread in itself.

eblistic

Nevore wrote: »

I don't know, I think it's fair to say that some moral and political outlooks are more inclined to atheism than others. Liberals are generally egalitarian and the notion of a divine omnipowerful authority doesn't tie too well in to that. Not to say that there aren't religious liberals, there are plenty.
It's probably worth a thread in itself.

Maybe. So liberals might be more inclined to be atheists rather than atheism leading to liberalism?

Also, I think the perceived "centre" of a political spectrum might be skewed by some aspects of religious doctrines.

Coriolanus

eblistic wrote: »

Maybe. So liberals might be more inclined to be atheists rather than atheism leading to liberalism?

Also, I think the perceived "centre" of a political spectrum might be skewed by some aspects of religious doctrines.

Imo at least, yeah, it's more likely to work that way than the other way around. Then again our, our minds aren't that neat and perfect. There could be an underlying pull factor affecting both of them and it's just that liberalism, having more gradations, seem to emerge first.
There was an article in Social Psychology Quarterly this year about how liberalism and atheism along with monogamy-preference in males are evolutionary novel. The writer drew the conclusion that it was based on intelligence, but I found that part very flawed. More reasonably you could say that they emerge when the subject feels "safe" in some manner.

Zombrex

This thread looks like a bit of a hit and run

I wonder if the antiskeptic is going to come back to let us know if he is satisfied with the answers given

KeithAFC

Because they have nothing better to do?

You know, i think Atheists care more about religion than religious people. I mean, im agnostic but ffs, i ain't going to sit on a forum or in public and talk about it all day. Talk about mind boggling boring.

Live your life, get on with it. Let people do the same.

MagicMarker

KeithAFC wrote: »

Because they have nothing better to do?

You know, i think Atheists care more about religion than religious people. I mean, im agnostic but ffs, i ain't going to sit on a forum or in public and talk about it all day. Talk about mind boggling boring.

Live your life, get on with it. Let people do the same.

And yet here you are, on a forum, talking about it... Are you bored yet?

ColmDawson

KeithAFC wrote: »

Because they have nothing better to do?

You know, i think Atheists care more about religion than religious people. I mean, im agnostic but ffs, i ain't going to sit on a forum or in public and talk about it all day. Talk about mind boggling boring.

Live your life, get on with it. Let people do the same.

Oh, just go and read the thread.

KeithAFC

MagicMarker wrote: »

And yet here you are, on a forum, talking about it... Are you bored yet?

Yeah, one comment on it but people post thousands of posts on the same subject, which frankly, has a simple answer to it.

MagicMarker

KeithAFC wrote: »

Yeah, one comment on it but people post thousands of posts on the same subject, which frankly, has a simple answer to it.

Tell us then, and we can close this bad boy down.

KeithAFC

MagicMarker wrote: »

Tell us then, and we can close this bad boy down.

The whole thing?

Belief/non belief.

Close thread.

Turtwig

KeithAFC wrote: »

Live your life, get on with it. Let people do the same.

Translation : Ignorance is bliss.

MikeC101

KeithAFC wrote: »

Because they have nothing better to do?

Because, regardless of ones own beliefs about the validity of religion or not, it can be a fascinating subject on so many levels. For me it's interesting to read and discuss the views of other people who also don't believe in a god. Plus I'm personally interested in freedom of speech issues, and this intersects with religion quite a bit. Equally it keeps me informed on current affairs with regards to religious interference in politics and society.

KeithAFC wrote: »

You know, i think Atheists care more about religion than religious people. I mean, im agnostic but ffs, i ain't going to sit on a forum or in public and talk about it all day. Talk about mind boggling boring.

Some atheists probably do. Certainly some of them are better informed about religion than some religious people. But if you think the topics here are restricted to "I don't believe in god / Neither do I / Hey, me too!", you're wrong. There's a lot more being discussed here.

KeithAFC wrote: »

Live your life, get on with it. Let people do the same.

I'm unsure how posting on a forum interferes with other people living, or getting on with, their lives.

strobe

KeithAFC wrote: »

Yeah, one comment on it but people post thousands of posts on the same subject, which frankly, has a simple answer to it.

One comment on this topic. But most of your posts on the site seem to be about Northern Irish unionism. If you keep on posting I have no doubt you will have thousands of posts about one topic in no time. Do you not find sitting on a forum or in public and talking about unionism and related topics all day mind boggling boring? Clearly not. Do you not think it would be better to live your life, get on with it and let people do the same? Frankly therr is as simple an answer to what is going on in Northern Ireland in regards to unionism as there is to what is going on in the world in regards to religion.

What is your suggestion? I'll make a deal with you, you don't post in any threads to do with the crap that goes on in Northern Ireland that relates to unionism and I won't post in any threads to do with crap that goes on in the world that has to do with religion. Deal?

Or we could both just mind our own business and post on the topics that interest us individually.

Dades

KeithAFC wrote: »

Because they have nothing better to do?

You know, i think Atheists care more about religion than religious people. I mean, im agnostic but ffs, i ain't going to sit on a forum or in public and talk about it all day. Talk about mind boggling boring.

Live your life, get on with it. Let people do the same.

Hello! Isn't this you posting about the Pope in AH?

Get on with your life, man!

bnt

KeithAFC wrote: »

Live your life, get on with it. Let people do the same.

Yeah? It works both ways. If the religious followed your advice, we would never have heard of religion, or having this conversation. I'd happily stop talking about religion if its practitioners stopped behaving like drunken car salesmen.

Still, it's fun to imagine myself in someone else's shoes for a bit, to try and see what the appeal is to them. While I was taken to church as a kid, my perception of it was very different to what I see now. It was like theatre or school lessons, not the soul-destroying obeisance demanded of adults. I went to a Catholic wedding in Portugal a few years ago, and sat on a side bench, just watching the adults follow these rituals that make as much sense to me as smoking (i.e. very little). There were kids running up and down the aisle without a care in the world, with no understanding of that for which they are being groomed.

rantyface

It's something we have common views on and it's interesting.

scientific1982

Because knowing your enemy is one of the fundamentals of the art of war.

Coriolanus

rantyface wrote: »

It's something we have common views on and it's interesting.

It's the only thing we have common views on.

goingpostal

Its part of my programme of as a Recovering Catholic. And because I find it a fascinating subject.

Metalfan

Athiests talk more about it because they've spent time examining it - most people start off believing what their parents told them .... there is a god, there is a santa ... its only after they look at it for themselves they become older and wiser that they realise its all crap. The people who believe in god hardly ever talk about religion cause they have just blindly accepted what they were told and never studied religion and the bible for themselves

liamw

Metalfan wrote: »

Athiests talk more about it because they've spent time examining it - most people start off believing what their parents told them .... there is a god, there is a santa ... its only after they look at it for themselves they become older and wiser that they realise its all crap. The people who believe in god hardly ever talk about religion cause they have just blindly accepted what they were told and never studied religion and the bible for themselves

You may be correct for the majority of believers, but there are plenty of people that have studied theology and the bible in depth and still believe. And that's where the question gets really interesting, when addressing those type of believers....

Here's some analysis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg

For reasons like this:
RTE article
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0803/education_primary.html
DOE PDF:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0803/education.pdf

School Year
2009/10
School Ethos No of Schools % of Total

CATHOLIC 2,888 91.25%
CHURCH OF Ireland 181 5.72%
MULTI DENOMINATIONAL 69 2.18%
PRESBYTERIAN 14 0.44%
INTER DENOMINATIONAL 8 0.25%
MUSLIM 2 0.06%
METHODIST 1 0.03%
JEWISH 1 0.03%
Quaker 1 0.03%
Total 3,165

Not sure how to make a table work.

condra

Why would any Catholic be surprised that many atheists have a bone to pick with religion?

Antitheist. Of course we are going to discuss religion here. Many of us were at one point VICTIMS of religion.

midlandsmissus

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

When I can live my life without fear of some religious nut job knocking on the door & disturbing my evening, my child being refused a place in a school because of lacking a baptism cert and no other part of my life is affected by religion or the religious unless I choose it, I will have absolutely nothing to say about religion - actually, I'd probably have a great deal more positive things to say.

They are unavoidably interlinked anyway, without theism, there is no such thing as atheism - one only exists because of the other and often as a direct result of the other. The forum is not just for atheists btw, give-away in the title. :cool:

Do you think this is a little over the top?
What schools refuse children because of lack of a baptismal certificate?

I was in a Catholic primary school 20 years ago, with no baptismal certificate, no questions asked.

I was one of two who weren't any religion in secondary school, and the school went out of the way to accomodate us, giving us the option to skip religion, even though religion classes were very liberal and focused on all religions.

And this was Ireland 15 - 20 years ago.

midlandsmissus

condra wrote: »

Why would any Catholic be surprised that many atheists have a bone to pick with religion?

Antitheist. Of course we are going to discuss religion here. Many of us were at one point VICTIMS of religion.

Victims of religion, come on - how were you a victim of religion. Victim of family pressure maybe, but you always had the choice to opt out of your religion?

I got by as a kid, when I wasn't any religion and EVERYBODY else was catholic, there was peer pressure to be like evryone else, but I didn't give in and I got by fine.

Ickle Magoo

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Do you think this is a little over the top?
What schools refuse children because of lack of a baptismal certificate?

I was in a Catholic primary school 20 years ago, with no baptismal certificate, no questions asked.

I was one of two who weren't any religion in secondary school, and the school went out of the way to accomodate us, giving us the option to skip religion, even though religion classes were very liberal and focused on all religions.

And this was Ireland 15 - 20 years ago.

No, it isn't - it was a couple of years ago, told not to bother applying as they were already oversubscribed and the places would go to those with certs before anyone else. I love just because other people have never personally encountered difficulties they just assume everyone who has must be lying or exaggerating. :mad:

robindch

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

told not to bother applying as they were already oversubscribed and the places would go to those with certs before anyone else.

When I explained a similar situation with my own kid over dinner one evening, a couple of members of my own extended family just looked at me, shrugged their shoulders and smiled at me. I felt like upending their dinners over them.