Web development career

krinklez

Hey all,
I'll apologize in advance if this question seems a bit broad! Basically I'm a print designer looking to change careers to web development. I'm handy enough at XHTML and CSS but I'm looking to get more into the meatier back-end programming stuff and the like, rather than front-end.
My questions are:
What are the best languages to learn for this kinda thing?? I've been checking the job sites and some vacancies want PHP/MySQL, others Java, C++, and others simply want knowledge of CMS' like drupal/joomla/modx etc? I've had conflicting advice from people I've asked, so would prefer to have a more definite idea of where to begin before I devote much time to it.

How flexible/progressive a career is web development? Are you most likely to wind up in a web design agency or is this kind of knowledge fluid enough to let you wind up working in more unexpected sectors etc? IT departments and such?

And finally, what's the pay like? Again, very broad, but some tell me IT in general pays quite poorly, but everywhere I read says IT is one of the more robust and in demand marketplaces?

Any help greatly appreciated!

Goodshape

Hmm, I don't think there are easy answers to most of those questions. But I'll ramble on anyway

Languages... there are lots that can be used in web development and everybody has their favourite. PHP is definitely big on the scene. Ruby and Python are also there.

I don't personally put much stock in 'knowledge of' CMS systems, unless you're a freelancer concentrating on frontend design and code (to be used in conjunction with your CMS of choice). I'm sure others will disagree with me there.

Frameworks are worth looking at. PHP has CodeIgniter, Cake, Symfony... Ruby has Rails... Python has Django... to name but a few.

Flexible/progressive.... ahhhmm, it's pretty flexible. Depending on which skill sets you build up. But I'd say the most obvious avenues are working in a dedicated web design/dev agency or working as a freelancer. Personally I built up my skills doing odd-jobs as a teenager, then freelanced, now I work in a small web design company. It's worked well for me. I think a lot of the flexibility comes from the wealth of information that's out there... it's entirely possible to teach yourself new skills in the area of web development in your own time, thus increasing your flexibility and options.

Pay... it's all relative, I guess. If your working for yourself or for a small agency, it tends to be project based work. So it can be a bit famine-and-feast. I'm honestly not sure what wages are like for web devs in larger firms.

Placebo

If you get competent at PHP then you should have no problem modifying template/cms driven websites. Perhaps even make a cms/small blog. Wont be anything major at all.

I think once you have a basic concept and understanding of how a back end works, then you can easily adapt that by looking at code snipets online etc.
By that i mean, login system [person enters information, match information with information on database, show error or store cookie]

You can pick things up as you, e.g: i use jquery now and then for validation and some other effects, i'm no pro at it but at this stage i dont need to be, theres so much code out there, with a bit of reading around you can easily modify the code to suit your needs.

hobochris

Generally, An IT degree would be your meal ticket, without one many doors will be closed for you.

I would recommend looking into it.

John_Mc

ASP.net would be a better choice than PHP, but I'm obviously biased as that's the framework I decided to go with

There's a lot of hype about Ruby on Rails at the moment, so it's definitely worth looking into.

Webmonkey

Looking into CakePHP a lot lately..inspired by Rails.

I think PHP first , then ASP.NET. PHP is still one most used languages I believe. Could be changing though.

Placebo

hobochris wrote: »

Generally, An IT degree would be your meal ticket, without one many doors will be closed for you.

I would recommend looking into it.

how true is this these days?
saying one has a strong portfolio of freelance perhaps !?
[i have a bsc and an msc, jobs mainly look at my work before even asking about qualifications]

Goodshape

hobochris wrote: »

Generally, An IT degree would be your meal ticket, without one many doors will be closed for you.

I think experience, knowledge and commitment / drive to learn more are preferable to an IT degree. Depends on the job you're looking for, maybe.

I don't have, nor have I ever been asked for, an 'IT' or any other degree. Nor would it be a steadfast requirement if I were hiring a web developer. It might be a bonus over another equally experienced developer... but that's all, just a bonus - not a requirement. IMO.

John_Mc wrote: »

ASP.net would be a better choice than PHP

Nonsense

Webmonkey

Placebo wrote: »

how true is this these days?
saying one has a strong portfolio of freelance perhaps !?
[i have a bsc and an msc, jobs mainly look at my work before even asking about qualifications]

While I believe the work and experience is most important...I'd imagine the employers still filter based on having a degree first. Since they know you have one, you may not get anymore questions on it but instead be asked about experience.

Placebo

not to go off topic but strictly speaking ONE could lie on their CV in that case.
Probability of a background check for a small firm is slim. :pac:

Nonsense

damn right !

Webmonkey

Placebo wrote: »

not to go off topic but strictly speaking ONE could lie on their CV in that case.
Probability of a background check for a small firm is slim. :pac:

True and a lot of people do no doubt.

Sparks

Goodshape wrote: »

I think experience, knowledge and commitment / drive to learn more are preferable to an IT degree. Depends on the job you're looking for, maybe.

No maybe about it. Many places simply filter you out at the HR level without a degree of some kind. To be blunt though, if you're so good and so experienced that you're one of the few in our field who wouldn't gain anything from a CS degree, then you wouldn't be asking the OP's question, and you wouldn't really be worrying about the next job so much as it'd be finding you.

And just for the record, experience, knowledge, commitment and drive to learn - are all orthogonal to whether or not you have a CS degree. People with CS degrees and all of the above exist, just as surely a people with none of them and no CS degree.

I still think one of the better pieces of advice is to have an easily-found portfolio of work you can show a prospective employer. There are places that won't bother to look at it, but you probably don't want to work in a place like that anyway, the stench can follow you around for far too long.

Goodshape

Not going to get into an argument over the merits of a degree. They're certainly beneficial and I didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

I just don't believe it's a strict requirement for making a living from web development.

Evil Phil

It depends on what you want to do - if you want to get into the *meatier* programming stuff then you need to learn how to program. What language you use is academic but if you're heading for web development then I suppose on of the web programming languages would suit.

My advice would be to learn Java - it can be used for web development but also for all kinds of other development. If you can code in Java then moving over to php/ruby/asp.net or any other language is easy enough. The same concepts apply.

And I know this is going to going to start another flame war but if you want a career in development then you talking a degree in an I.T. discipline, and you need to look after your CPD. The difference between those who do and those who don't is tangible. Not having one will not prevent you from making a living, but you'll make earn a better salary with one than without. Now let me clarify that point: The higher the standard of education you've received will be reflected in your work, that puts you in a position to command a better salary and makes you more suitable for promotion. It's very short sighted to think that your education is left in the interview room, if an employer is doing that then consider a move.

But we're getting waaay of topic. Krinklez do a course in development, DIT and other places run them. All you need is an 'Introduction to programming with ...' for some programming language. I'd recommend Java, it's not as forgiving as some languages when you start out but by the end of the course you'll know if development is for you or not. After that you can look at what else your career will need.

krinklez

Wow, thanks for all the replies guys! Lots of info to take on board there. I was looking at FAS courses in both Java and PHP/MySql, does anyone know of online alternatives by any chance?