Moral dilemma....

panama

Going to keep this as brief as possible...

I am friends with someone who I found out is having an affair
the 'someone' is married, the person 'someone' is seeing is also married.

My so called friend has lied to me to ensure that this affair is kept a secret
as most people wish their affairs to be of course discreet, having known this person for some time, it is very upsetting and I am quite hurt by the lengths
this person has gone to and the fact that they are willing to lie and betray my trust and feelings also just so they can have their fun.

I am very angry about this and while I know that my friends marriage fell apart a long time ago and they are virtually seperated, I know for a fact that the person 'they' are seeing is in what is seen as a healthy relationship with children involved etc.

My moral dilemma is, I am not looking for revenge but I feel i should do what's right and inform the person that their other half is cheating on them with my friend.

Of course this is a no win situation as then you are basically destroying a marriage but is that worse than living with the knowledge that they are being seriously deceived and will probably end up finding out down the line anyway?

I deliberately left out 'he' and 'she' as I would rather people did not bring stereotypes into it or pick sides.

What would you do?

If have already told my friend that I wish to have nothing more to do
with them because of this but all they do is try and deny it even though I basically caught them in the act and say I'm in the wrong and I should apologise which is of course outlandish and smacks of desperation.

I do feel this person needs to get their comeuppance in some ways
for how they are behaving but I don't want to be the one who breaks such devastating news to someone and as I say and probably be the cause of the end of their marriage.

Has anyone been in such a situation?

This 'friend' has tried to turn this on me as they think I'm a soft touch who will not do anything, they have tried to make me into the bad one and claim to other acquaintances of both of us that I have been interfering in their live and I should apologise etc for my actions when this is quite simply not the case and illustrates what I mean by the lengths they will go to ensure that instead of them being found out, that the spotlight is put on me and others think I am just being spiteful and starting hurtful rumours for no reason.

I know this is extremely vague but that is the best way I can describe it.

skooterblue

panama wrote: »

What would you do?


I do feel this person needs to get their comeuppance in some ways
for how they are behaving but I don't want to be the one who breaks such devastating news to someone and as I say and probably be the cause of the end of their marriage.

Has anyone been in such a situation?

I think you are doing the right thing at the minute, really I do you are not emotionally supporting or enabling your friend to do this devastating act to their partners. Who do you think will be coming around to thank you for breaking the news with a basket of muffins when the dust settles? No like the bearer of bad news, they are more likely to shoot the messenger.

My advice is act dumb and keep as far back as possible. When it blows there will be sugar everywhere. Its a horrible position to be in but it will be uncovered eventually and everyone will have to face the music.

Toots

Stay out of it. No good will come of you telling on your friend, in fact it will probably make things very unpleasant for you. These things have a way of coming out in the wash, and you don't want to be caught in the fallout when it does. If your friends behaviour makes you uncomfortable, then cut ties with them, it's the best thing for you in the long run and you don't owe the other people involved anything.

Overheal

The lad is not the same lad you know, I guess. And I'll bet he didn't involve you because knowing yoy wouldn't rat him out perhaps? Or maybe its because you would have eaten at his conciense about it. Or he wanted to protect you from the exact moral dilemma you are in right now.

Either way, he's given you an out since the moment he got himself into it. Take it. They are consenting adults who are responsible for the weight of their own retarded decision.

lizzie09

You are a kind person but this is not your business,,,,back away.

Penn

You cannot tell. No good will come of it. I think you should just urge your friend once more to come clean or stop it, and if they don't, just walk away from it. Its not worth getting involved in at all. At the end of the day they are both adults, and while people may get hurt, that is something they are both aware of. It is their choice and while from the outside it seems like a bad choice to us, it is their choice to make

Smallbit

OP, if you'll forgive my bluntness, you need to save your moral outrage for something worthy of the effort, for example, the arms trade in third world countries, or the bank bailouts, etc and not the insignificant personal crisis of someone you thought was your friend.

Other people's private affairs are just that, private. Your proposed intervention would make no difference. If someone is having an affair it usually comes out one way or another with or without your help.

OS119

panama wrote: »

I am very angry about this and while I know that my friends marriage fell apart a long time ago and they are virtually seperated, I know for a fact that the person 'they' are seeing is in what is seen as a healthy relationship with children involved etc.

if the other person is having a relationship outside their marriage then the marriage obviously isn't as healthy as you would like to believe. if you are prepared to discount the 'cheating' of one of the cheaters because their marriage is publicly known to be all over bar the lawyers, why should you be more exercised about the marriage that doesn't have the same public reputation, but is obviously in the same position?

perhaps, as you mentioned children, they are just being more discreet about it for the sake of those children. you previously thought that marriage was healthy, happy and secure - obviously it isn't. perhaps you should consider if infact there are other things about the marriage that you aren't privvy to - they may have an agreement, they may be swingers, they may worship Satan, or they just may not care anymore - none of which is your business.

sorry, but this is all about you - your problem is that people chose not to tell you about the most sensitive, and potentially destructive, elements in their lives, and you've got your nose all bent out of shape because you think you have a right to know and not to be lied to. well, you don't - and if i were in your friends position of weighing the moral dilema of either lying to you or have some self-obsessed ego maniac trumpet my most sensitive business across the town and costing me me my house in a bitter divorce battle, i'm pretty sure which option i'd go for.

nothing that you do will make the situation for any of the parties affected by the big issues, rather than the petty ego ones, better. so go home, delete this person from your phone and mind your own business.

sickofwaiting

panama wrote: »

My so called friend has lied to me to ensure that this affair is kept a secret
as most people wish their affairs to be of course discreet, having known this person for some time, it is very upsetting and I am quite hurt by the lengths
this person has gone to and the fact that they are willing to lie and betray my trust and feelings also just so they can have their fun.

I am very angry about this and while I know that my friends marriage fell apart a long time ago and they are virtually seperated, I know for a fact that the person 'they' are seeing is in what is seen as a healthy relationship with children involved etc.

Down off your high horse please. I can't understand why you are 'very angry' over your friend not divulging the details of his/her private life to you. People's private lives are there own business. This friend was under no obligation to tell you about their private life. Look at it this way, if you think they are obliged to tell you about their private life becausethey are your friend, then it means they are obliged to tell all his other friends about it....it defeats the whole concept of 'private'. Why do some people get so worked up about other people's business? I can never understand that.

OS119

sunflower27 wrote: »

Possibly because the OP is friends with the guys wife!?

they didn't mention that in the OP, the OP made no indication that he even knew her particularly well.

lots of 'my friend is having an affair', no 'my other friend - his wife - is being cheated on'.

the OP's outrage is based on his friend not telling him about the affair and trying to cover it up - odd that... and that the OP didn't know enough about the dynamics of the other marriage to know that the publicly presented version is a sham. he's been betrayed you see...

Beruthiel

panama wrote: »

My moral dilemma is, I am not looking for revenge but I feel i should do what's right

Sorry but you're not the Moral Police. This is none of your business and you should not get involved.
You have absolutely no idea of the ensuing fallout.

I do feel this person needs to get their comeuppance in some ways
for how they are behaving

At some point down the line, they probably will. You don't get to make that decision though. It's got nothing to do with you.

My advice, at all costs, keep out of it.

LegacyUser

Smallbit wrote: »

OP, if you'll forgive my bluntness, you need to save your moral outrage for something worthy of the effort, for example, the arms trade in third world countries, or the bank bailouts, etc and not the insignificant personal crisis of someone you thought was your friend.

If you'll forgive my bluntness but that's pretty ridiculous, what exactly do you propose they do with said moral outrage? Put an end to the arms trade or hang the bankers? Why get upset over something you can do absolutely nothing about. In this instance they can do something, like tell the poor unfortunate OH who's getting cheated on so that they can make the decision of whether why want to stay married to a nasty cheating scumbag. I'm sure you'd like to know if it was you. The reason people get away with ****e like this is because people are only too willing to look the other way and say "none of my business".

OP, If I were you I'd tell the OH who's being cheated on, you could do so anonymously and leave it up to them as to what they want to do. I'm always on the side of telling the person, I know I would want to be told in that situation.

Best of luck with what you want to do but remember you have to live with your conscience, none of us do.

Cheeky_gal

I can't beleive the replies this thread is getting. OP, be the bigger person an tell. If your friend's husband is also a friend of yours you should tell him, imagine you were in his shoes, he deserves to know the truth. It's terrible the way some people will keep their mouths shut and let something like this happen an innocent man. Cowards! It's not "ratting" as some people will see it, tell him.

Monkey61

It is none of your business OP, what consenting adults get up to in their own time. You are not, as has been said, the moral police.

People's views on cheating widely differ. For all you know, the other partners involved know what is going on and let it go for the sake of their marriage. You don't really have a clue.

All that is definite in this is that you wading in with your angry outrage will do nothing but cause hurt, embarrassment, and a great deal of chaos for all involved - especially the children might I add. It will destroy lives to a far greater extent than keeping your mouth shut.

Comeuppance? Who on earth are you to decide who deserves comeuppance? For God's sake get a grip and keep your mouth shut.

If you don't like a friend;s behaviour, then don't be friends with them any more. Simple.

Busi_Girl08

What I would like to know is exactly what you mean by "basically caught them in the act".

Did you overhear a conversation, catch them kissing, walk in on them having sex, etc?

Is it *at all* possible that they are telling the truth and you have gotten this all horribly wrong?

The Corinthian

I'm going to pick out three key sentences:

panama wrote: »

My so called friend has lied to me to ensure that this affair is kept a secret

My moral dilemma is, I am not looking for revenge but I feel i should do what's right and inform the person that their other half is cheating on them with my friend.

I do feel this person needs to get their comeuppance in some ways
for how they are behaving but I don't want to be the one who breaks such devastating news to someone and as I say and probably be the cause of the end of their marriage.

Your so-called friend did well to keep his/her mouth shut, because you cannot be trusted to keep yours shut. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that you are in fact the 'so-called friend' as your sense of moral indignation appears more important than your loyalty to your friends. Would you sell them out for tax evasion? Maybe not paying their TV license?

Keep out of it. It is absolutely none of your business and all you will gain from relieving anything is some form of perverse revenge, justified - in your mind - as having done 'the right thing'. It's not.

metrovelvet

Unless your friend is a child molestor or terrorist, your moral obligation is to keep your friend's confidence,that is if you are their friend.

Plus his wife may not appreciate your honesty.

vetinari

A tough one. I think people are focusing way too much on the notion that you have a grudge against your friend. You probably do but it is a very minor issue next to the 300 pound elephant that is your friend having an affair with a married person.

Personally, I would tell the OH of the married person. I've been cheated on before in a similar situation and would have liked to be told. People talk about "arrangements" that may be in place but generally in I'd say 80% of cases, the OH is not ok with the affair. Any fallout that does result is the fault of your friend and the person he is cheating with. I can never understand how people heap blame on the messenger in this situation.

Zen65

panama wrote: »

I am very angry about this and while I know that my friends marriage fell apart a long time ago and they are virtually seperated, I know for a fact that the person 'they' are seeing is in what is seen as a healthy relationship with children involved etc.

OP, you cannot know the state of the other relationship, don't delude yourself. All you can know for sure is that there are kids involved, so you need to be careful about what you do for their sakes.

panama wrote: »

I do feel this person needs to get their comeuppance in some ways
for how they are behaving

This seems to be at the heart of the matter for you. You judge that your friendship has been betrayed and you want to see them experience consequences. What about the kids in the other relationship, do they need to be punished for the indiscretion of the parent? If you leave this alone the relationship may end naturally, and the damage might be limited. If you intervene in the manner you suggest then you are condemning all of these people, both innocent and (in your eyes) "guilty" to the misery of family break-up.

There is no dilemma here. Swallow your indignation and move on. Do not interfere in this affair!


Be at peace,


Z

The Corinthian

vetinari wrote: »

I can never understand how people heap blame on the messenger in this situation.

Because it's none of their business.

Zen65

vetinari wrote: »

I can never understand how people heap blame on the messenger in this situation.

Andrew Lloyd Weber gave an excellent insight into this here.

Ask yourself.... if your friend had a habit of skipping work pretending to be sick, would you report them to their employer? Probably not, after all it's the employer's duty to manage these things, right? If the employer was a state department, and this person's absences were costing the taxpayer money, would you still not report it? No, you probably would not.

There are countless times when we know things about people which we don't "report" on (though hopefully this does not extend to serious criminal activities!!) .... we choose to "live and let live" in most cases.

But introduce sex, infidelity, or betrayal and there's any number of "moral" people wanting to spill the beans regardless of the consequences.

If the OP cared about these people, about the children, or the partners, then the best she could do is to talk to her friend and explain why she believes it's wrong and harmful. Then stop interfering. The OP has no idea of the potential consequences from revealing the infidelity to the OH who is being cheated on. It's denying any possibility of an good outcome.


Be at peace,


Z

AngryBadger

You should do nothing op other than tell this person you don't want to know anything about their extra-marital activities. You will not be thanked by anyone involved if you blow the whistle and may wind up being resented for it. Furthermore you don't know the full details of any of there relationships so if you do get involved you're doing so without access to the full facts;foolish at best,disastrous at worst. Steer clear.

MissHoneyBun

If you have a problem with your friend's behaviour OP, then terminate the friendship. Beyond that, it's no business of yours. Live your life your way and let others choose theirs.

freakmagnet

I agree with many others - its none of your business. And administering 'comeuppance's smacks of bitterness and moral judging. So, these people don't abide by your moral standards? So what? Is it your business that they are punished for not adhering to YOUR moral standard? No.

And also, there is many different variables that you may not have considered? Maybe the affair is approved by their wives or husbands? And they are shy about coming out with their open relationships because they don't want to be judged by people (like you)? I'm just giving that as an example of whereby you think you know the facts, but don't.

Once you don't have to cover for this person or actively engage with their alleged deceit, then its none of your business in my opinion. Casting aspirations on other peoples moral judgments is best left for organised religions.

As for the contention that your friend lied to you about an element of his life, then i really think you should accept that there is certain things that people want kept private and don't tell anyone - this is the case even within close friendships and marriage. I'm sure there is things you've lied to people close to you about. Say, you were going to a counselor and felt it best that it remains private. Your best friend asks you where you are going on a particular day and what you were doing? You white lie. You don't tell anyone everything. It's called privacy.

LighterGuy

Welcome to one of the most f**ked up contradictions in life you can encounter.


you know someone is cheating. what will happen?

1, you tell the partner. you'd be suprised how many times when a partner is told and only for them to believe the cheater that nothing is going on. you are seen as a liar. Relationship continues.
2, Everyone would want to be told they are been cheated on. But when it comes to knowing about someone else... thats "different". Most dont tell.
3, if you dont tell and it comes out you knew. you're automatically a big jerk.
4, if you're in a situation where you are friends with both and you tell, the cheating party will think your scum. Of course "cheating" is worse than being "honest"
5, if in the same situation of being friends with both, and you dont tell. If it comes out the partner who got cheated on will think you are a big jerk. While the cheater will think you're sound. But ... you must remember. Being in a relationship is like being a really good friends with someone. if this "mate" did that to his/her partner. You think they're a nice person? ... they'd screw you over too if need be.



Simple fact is:
You tell when your friends with someone. Not when your only acquaintances.

panama

Wow, came back on expecting to see a reply or two and theres two pages of debate.

All I can say is that there is far more to this than a personal vendetta, it is far more complicated than I originally set out, but I was seeking a second (and twentieth!) opinion and I got it and I'm grateful for the replies as harsh as some have been.

It's quite interesting just how much some opinions differ.
I'm not sure this is the place to divulge any more information as to accurately describe the details I would probably be leaving myself open and if any of the other parties were to stumble upon it I am sure it would not take an awful lot to work out who it's about.

Also I find it very amusing how despite my efforts in the OP, some posters still resorted to ''if he'' and ''you should tell his wife" etc even though I made no reference to either sex. Very interesting, anyway cheers for the replies.

Sound Bite

OP you won't like me reply either but you did ask for opinions.....

There appears to be alot more to this than in our post (which I understand) but two things come to mind.

Firstly are you sure you want to tell the injured party for the right reasons. Secondly, you appear to be very caught up and over involved in something that really is absolutely none of your business.

I never understand the need to interfere in other people's business.

Let nature run its course, if you're aware of the situation then they're probably not being very discrete and its only a matter of time before the whole thing comes out in the open.

astra2000

op you are in a tough situation ,are you friends with this persons spouse? if it was a really good friend of mine I would be tempted to tell them if not I am not sure. you could tell your friend that if he/she does not own up you will tell their spouse, but chances are that if he/she is denying what you saw with your own eyes he/she will continue to do so to their spouse. You have removed this person from your life and if you feel you can no longer trust them that is the way to go. do not take it personal that you have been lied to to protect this secret as this is what people do when they are covering up a secret after all if you are having an affair whats a few lies??????:eek: Think carefully about what you do.

VinnyTGM

I'd think of this situation like a time bomb, you could try and defuse it but it will most likely blow up in your face, or you could get as far away as possible, but eventually it will explode.

JonathanAnon

You do not have the right to play god here.. It is possible that they "someone" with kids may spend the next 15 years with their partner and kids, while keeping their affair secret, and maintaining the facade of a happy marriage (perhaps with their partner also believing it).... Or you could tell the partner about the affair and the kids are brought up for the next 15 years in a broken home...

You have distanced yourself from your friend as a kind of silent protest, and I think you should continue to move further away from them if you find that you cannot be their friend while they are indulging in such behaviour.

The Corinthian

panama wrote: »

I'm not sure this is the place to divulge any more information as to accurately describe the details I would probably be leaving myself open and if any of the other parties were to stumble upon it I am sure it would not take an awful lot to work out who it's about.

Then it's unlikely any of us can advise you.

Ultimately, what details that you are withholding may cause many of us to reassess what we have already advised - or reinforce it. Either way, without knowing it, and if it is as critical to the issue as you suggest, we can't really comment.