So now that Spain has won the world cup and the new season is around the corner..

jank

....can we expect the same treatment for teams who play 'anti' football against the like of Arsenal given the same critical treatment as the Dutch were given after the final?

Can we expect Alan Hansen and those other idiots on the beeb to condem the actions of Bolton, Hull or Blackburn when they try and kick an opposing team off the park. Will they use words like 'Brutal'. 'Violent'. 'Sickening'. 'Anti-football'??

Will they Fcuk!

pickarooney

How is the last sentence related to the rest of the post?

I've heard the words 'Bolton' and 'anti-football' used so often together they're almost synonyms at this stage. Blackburn, though, 'do the best they have with what they've got' and Hull... well, we'll not hear too much more about them any time soon, I'd wager.

OPENROAD

While I agree overall with the OP, it is not just the BBC, RTE and Irish pundits are the exact same i.e. Arsenal have a soft centre etc.. and yet were critical of the Dutch.

OPENROAD

pickarooney wrote: »

How is the last sentence related to the rest of the post?

.

+ 1

Would delete that part imo

jank

pickarooney wrote: »

How is the last sentence related to the rest of the post?

Hoof it long, get rid of it, win at all cost, get the boot in.... That is english (and british and irish) football.

Effort and passion can only get you so far, the BBC and all other world publications to be fair WANTED Spain to win because of the football they play. I totally get that, but then you will have Hansen coming out with gems such as 'everyone knows Arsenal don't like it up 'em' (Que a big stupid grin on his face) 'to compete you have to get stuck in.. and they did that well' but then castigates the Dutch for doing the same....?
Edit: OK deleted maybe a topic for another day

Mr Alan

i rarely see teams be quite as dirty and malicious as the dutch were. there is a difference between playing tough and playing dirty.

OPENROAD

jank wrote: »

Hoof it long, get rid of it, win at all cost, get the boot in.... That is english (and british and irish) football.

Effort and passion can only get you so far, the BBC and all other world publications to be fair WANTED Spain to win because of the football they play. I totally get that, but then you will have Hansen coming out with gems such as 'everyone knows Arsenal dont like it up 'em' (Que a big stupid grin on his face) 'to compete you have to get stuck in.. and they did that well' but then castigates the Dutch for doing the same....?
Edit: OK deleted maybe a topic for another day

I really wish they would get rid of Hansen, I actually really enjoyed the BBC coverage when he was not on.

As I said though rte are the same, with the exception of Dunphy maybe

jank

It goes deeper than Hanson.

It goes from Big Sam to Alan Pardrew......

I could go on and on but I will leave it there for now

RasTa

Arsene and Arsenal need to man up imo.

JimsAlterEgo

RasTa wrote: »

Arsene and Arsenal need to man up imo.

fully agree, Spain were willing to stand up to Holland. Arseanl don't, they just take it. Arsenal need a few players with a bit of bottle

jank

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

fully agree, Spain were willing to stand up to Holland. Arseanl don't, they just take it. Arsenal need a few players with a bit of bottle

Like how, waving imaginary yellow cards??

pickarooney

Spain just wouldn't cut it at the top level, in the Premiership.

AnCapaillMor

jank wrote: »

Like how, waving imaginary yellow cards??

Nah more like rolling around the place like Busquets.

JimsAlterEgo

jank wrote: »

Like how, waving imaginary yellow cards??

Puyols tackle from behind. The back 4, Busquets and Alonso can handle themselves. Didn't at least 3 of there back 4 get booked.

AnCapaillMor

Good point, i'm an arsenal fan and its one thing we're missing, Vieira, petit, grimandi were not afraid to get stuck in. If you got into Arsenal back then, they'd get into you. One thing i've noticed, our success has gone down since our amount of red cards has dramatically dropped. Yeah getting roughed up pisses me off but i miss the "Piss on me, i'll sh1t on you" attitude of grimandi and Vieira. Jank is right tho, the whole "getting up on Arsenal" really pisses me off, especially after the boys on their high horse after the dutch games.

gimmick

AnCapaillMor wrote: »

Nah more like rolling around the place like Busquets.

Why is this always brought up, and the fact he had an exceptional tournament never got brought up?

AnCapaillMor

Because he's a dirty cheating git?

gimmick

And how many games are you basing that off?

AnCapaillMor

Namely the inter and arsenal champs league games, the dutch game(altho i would'nt blame him then), the 2nd el classico(did'nt see the first), few more i saw on skysp.

Anthony Walsh

Yeah arsenal need to man-up, I've been saying for awhile now, their invincible season, wasn't just this beautiful football crappy they had some of the hardest players in the league at the time as well. Imagine if there current team was playing against the likes of Roy Keane and Scholes in their prime.

LuckyLloyd

Just win baby. Spain won. Arsenal haven't the past couple of years. You want to shut people up, you want teams to reassess their approach against you: win. So long as you continue to get genuinely kicked off the pitch ~10 times a season and drop points / be eliminated from a cup competition as a result it will keep happening to you.

In Euro 2012 the Dutch will approach things very differently. Why? Because they tried to kick their way to victory, it didn't work and they have been eviscerated by Dutch popular opinion as a result. Stoke, Blackburn or Bolton don't need to reassess their approaches so long as they remain a going concern in the Premiership. They are achieving their targets by playing the football they play.

So if you're sick and tired about the EPL status quo, just win baby.

AnCapaillMor

The dutch always had a hardman\men who went with the hard approach, Jan wouters, Edgar Davids, Rijkaard, john De woulfe. unfortunately this wc they did'nt have the quality that they had in the 70's and the 90's. The hard approach of these guys was covered up the bergkamps, overmars, cruyffs etc. If the players don't come in, they'll continue with it in 2012.

gimmick

AnCapaillMor wrote: »

Namely the inter and arsenal champs league games, the dutch game(altho i would'nt blame him then), the 2nd el classico(did'nt see the first), few more i saw on skysp.

I think peoples attitude towards him is being unfairly influenced by the incident against Inter. Yes he milked it and made a fool of himself, but he is not the first or last to do so.

People should take a look at his game and the fact he is a kid and how much potential he has rather than villifying him to the degree they are.

LuckyLloyd

gimmick wrote: »

I think peoples attitude towards him is being unfairly influenced by the incident against Inter. Yes he milked it and made a fool of himself, but he is not the first or last to do so.

People should take a look at his game and the fact he is a kid and how much potential he has rather than villifying him to the degree they are.

Why should they? He has acted disgracefully on more than one occasion. Unfortunately he comes from a footballing culture that accepts and applauds such behaviour so long as he is technically brilliant - a culture rotten to the core. I don't come from that culture, completely despise players who get on like he does. So I won't be giving him a chance. I want him to lose every time he steps on the pitch, and I make no apologies for it.

gimmick

So we will villify a fella for the rest of his career for a bad incident or 2 this early on? We will ignore the guys talent because he acted the langer in the CL semi?

He is not the only player ever to feign injury to gain an advantage. Its a part of the game which we have to take. It may not be a nice part of it, but a part of it nonetheless.

Will we start a thread calling Gerrard/Rooney/Ronaldo/Agbolnlahor after they take their first dive of the season to win, or try to win a penalty? Or would that just be "trolling"?

a culture rotten to the core. I don't come from that culture, completely despise players who get on like he does.

You say that like it is unique to Spain? It is not. Absolutely 100% not. It is rife in every league and every nationalty.

LuckyLloyd

gimmick wrote: »

So we will villify a fella for the rest of his career for a bad incident or 2 this early on? We will ignore the guys talent because he acted the langer in the CL semi?

He is not the only player ever to feign injury to gain an advantage. Its a part of the game which we have to take. It may not be a nice part of it, but a part of it nonetheless.

Will we start a thread calling Gerrard/Rooney/Ronaldo/Agbolnlahor after they take their first dive of the season to win, or try to win a penalty? Or would that just be "trolling"?



You say that like it is unique to Spain? It is not. Absolutely 100% not. It is rife in every league and every nationalty.

I abhor it wherever I see it. It is not a part of the game that I will take quietly. And when the current Spain players do it by default at this stage and are being held up as an example to kids on how to play the game, I feel their rubbish attitude needs to be spotlighted as priority right now.

Football really needed the Dutch to win tbh. You see kids diving, feigning pain and waving cards at referees. Why? Because the Spanish players did it on the way to winning the last two big summer tournaments.

AnCapaillMor

gimmick wrote: »

I think peoples attitude towards him is being unfairly influenced by the incident against Inter. Yes he milked it and made a fool of himself, but he is not the first or last to do so.

It was the round before that got my goat up, moslty because it was against my team. He's a class act no doubt its a pity that he reacts like he's been shot, it overshadows him. It's more than 2-3 times too, i've seen 8 or 9 barca matches with him but in most games, he has acted like he was shot, tried it 1 or 2 of the spanish games too. The inter game was where it was noticed most because it resulted in a Red card.


Anyways we're soccer fans its what we do, sense\logic goes out the window, foucus on the negative, Pires against portsmouth will always be brought up, Henry handball, rooney at the Arsenal\UTD OT game, fake Ronaldo(altho that is justified).

gimmick

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I abhor it wherever I see it. It is not a part of the game that I will take quietly. And when the current Spain players do it by default at this stage and are being held up as an example to kids on how to play the game, I feel their rubbish attitude needs to be spotlighted as priority right now.

Fair point, but it is endemic of the entire sport at this stage. Not a fan of play acting either, but every team has an element of it in them. To dismiss Spain as the only purveyors of it is wrong.

Football really needed the Dutch to win tbh. You see kids diving, feigning pain and waving cards at referees. Why? Because the Spanish players did it on the way to winning the last two big summer tournaments.

And if the Dutch won it, the kids (being the future after all) would think that by kicking the opposition into submission is the answer. The Dutch were so horribly cynical throughout the World Cup it was unreal. That certainly is not the way I want to see any team play.

jank

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Just win baby. Spain won. Arsenal haven't the past couple of years. You want to shut people up, you want teams to reassess their approach against you: win. So long as you continue to get genuinely kicked off the pitch ~10 times a season and drop points / be eliminated from a cup competition as a result it will keep happening to you.

In Euro 2012 the Dutch will approach things very differently. Why? Because they tried to kick their way to victory, it didn't work and they have been eviscerated by Dutch popular opinion as a result. Stoke, Blackburn or Bolton don't need to reassess their approaches so long as they remain a going concern in the Premiership. They are achieving their targets by playing the football they play.

So if you're sick and tired about the EPL status quo, just win baby.

I am not sick and tired of the status quo in the EPL at all, I never said I was. I am sick and tired of the blatant 2 faced hypocrisy by pundits and commentators. Example the tackle by Shawcross, we had everyone come out and say 'Oh he is not like that' 'He is a good kid' 'He tried to play the ball' 'It wasn't even a red card' etc. When De Jong does a bad tackle on Alonso (which was disgraceful) he is public enemy No 1. It drives me crazy!

By the way back when Arsenal were winning they were castigated as dirty for having amassed so many red cards. Dammed if you do...

AnCapaillMor

Saying spain is the main protagainst is harsh. Compare Spain to Italy, they're nowhere near a match.

Warper

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Why should they? He has acted disgracefully on more than one occasion. Unfortunately he comes from a footballing culture that accepts and applauds such behaviour so long as he is technically brilliant - a culture rotten to the core. I don't come from that culture, completely despise players who get on like he does. So I won't be giving him a chance. I want him to lose every time he steps on the pitch, and I make no apologies for it.

Every team cheats and every team has cheating players. It is the culture of the game everywhere. It is a bit rich coming from a Liverpool supporter whose team have one of the biggest cheats in the game in Gerrard and another fella close behind him in Torres.

LuckyLloyd

Warper wrote: »

Every team cheats and every team has cheating players. It is the culture of the game everywhere. It is a bit rich coming from a Liverpool supporter whose team have one of the biggest cheats in the game in Gerrard and another fella close behind him in Torres.

If you read the Liverpool thread you would find that I dislike Gerrard with a passion, and I have never been one to fawn over Torres. His dive against Chile was despicable.

LuckyLloyd

gimmick wrote: »

And if the Dutch won it, the kids (being the future after all) would think that by kicking the opposition into submission is the answer. The Dutch were so horribly cynical throughout the World Cup it was unreal. That certainly is not the way I want to see any team play.

The difference is the media would have lambasted them for the manner of their victory. They would have won, and then the way in which they won would have been condemned. And there is a better chance that a kid watching might think playing it straight is the way to go.

Reganio 2

Nope, I fully expect Arsenal to get the sympathy for "trying" to play football but bullied out of it, annoys me so much, everyone knows Arsenal struggle with a couple of kicks, but apparently that's wrong. Its a flaw in the team how is that any other teams fault? Oh and you aren't allowed take corners against Liverpool cause they struggle, your not allowed pass it too much around Bolton cause they struggle. No its the teams fault its up to them to solve it, otherwise other teams should take advantage of it.

gimmick

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The difference is the media would have lambasted them for the manner of their victory. They would have won, and then the way in which they won would have been condemned. And there is a better chance that a kid watching might think playing it straight is the way to go.

Or they may look at it as being the end justifying the means.

gandalf

As an Arsenal fan I actually despair when we play Bolton or their like in the Premiership. Is it because they kick lumps out of us, no its because we cannot handle a team that plays like that. If you are a great team you should be able to handle all sorts of tactics that are used against you including the underhanded ones. Spain the example everyone is using did, the Dutch tried to kick them off the field yet they weathered this and won the match.

I remember the Arsenal teams of George Graham where we won 1-0 in some of most dire excuses for football you could imagine with hard men like Tony Adams, Andy Linighan, Martin Keown & Steve Bold ensuring the opposition knew that they were there. Under Wenger in previous teams we had midfielders like Grimandi, Petit, Parlour and Vieira again ensuring the steel was there. Hell even Bergkamp wasn't scared to get stuck in.

At the moment that steel I believe is the missing link for Arsenal to become a more robust team and one that can win the Premiership again and to have success in the cups. By not having that steely element to the team Arsenal are attracting more teams to play like Bolton, Hull or Blackburn and probably increasing the chances of injuries to our players because of this.

PHB

jank wrote: »

....can we expect the same treatment for teams who play 'anti' football against the like of Arsenal given the same critical treatment as the Dutch were given after the final?

Can we expect Alan Hansen and those other idiots on the beeb to condem the actions of Bolton, Hull or Blackburn when they try and kick an opposing team off the park. Will they use words like 'Brutal'. 'Violent'. 'Sickening'. 'Anti-football'??

Will they Fcuk!

Sorry. The Dutch tried to actively injure players, like they were violant. I've never seen Bolton Hull or Blackburn be anywhere near as bad as the Dutch.

And for the talk of Arsenal being these nice guys, I can remember two particular occassions in the recent past when Arsenal players attacked Nani because he was showing off too much flair.

But on a more general point, Players need to earn the right to play football. Sometime that is done with an enforcer, but look at Zidane or Scholes. Two beautiful technical footballers. Neither of them would take any **** from players trying to kick them out of the game. Somebody goes late into Scholes, within 5 minutes, he's going to be on the floor from a Scholes special. That's the difference between good and great players.

DB10

gandalf wrote: »

As an Arsenal fan I actually despair when we play Bolton or their like in the Premiership. Is it because they kick lumps out of us, no its because we cannot handle a team that plays like that. If you are a great team you should be able to handle all sorts of tactics that are used against you including the underhanded ones. Spain the example everyone is using did, the Dutch tried to kick them off the field yet they weathered this and won the match.

I remember the Arsenal teams of George Graham where we won 1-0 in some of most dire excuses for football you could imagine with hard men like Tony Adams, Andy Linighan, Martin Keown & Steve Bold ensuring the opposition knew that they were there. Under Wenger in previous we had midfielders like Grimandi, Petit, Parlour and Vieira again ensuring the steel was there. Hell even Bergkamp wasn't scared to get stuck in.

At the moment that steel I believe is the missing link for Arsenal to become a more robust team and one that can win the Premiership again and to have success in the cups. By not having that steely element to the team Arsenal are attracting more teams to play like Bolton, Hull or Blackburn and probably increasing the chances of injuries to our players because of this.

Spot on.

Teams will continue to kick us around, as long as they get results. And even if they don't get the win, the will all have a better chance doing so.

There is a reason we always drop points at the likes of Birmingham and it isn't because Birmingham are 1970's Brazil.

The best teams IMO, can win playing great attacking football and when necessary win playing dirty.

Think the Arsenal of old, or now Chelsea and United. City are getting close to that status as well.

flahavaj

Its too easy to say "everyone does it" about diving and play acting. Thats the kind of attitude that has let play acting seep into the culture of football to the extent that people rarley cry foul anymore. Kids are now doing it. Even some of the c*nts that play in my astroturf league are crying to the ref every time they're tackled for Christs' sake.

I don't care who does it - whether its Gerrard, Rooney, Busquets or John f*cking Mullane in the Munster Final - its wrong and it drives me mad and it tarnishes any great things these guys go on to do in the future.

I also object to this idea that just because a team doesn't play attractive football they must be cloggers who kick teams off the pitch. I see the OP mentioning Hull - are they really a dirty team? And Bolton under Coyle haven't been in any way dirty as far as i have seen. Blackburn had a bit of a reputation a while back but again I've seen nothing from them to suggest they're any worse than anyone else. Given that player are booked for pretty much any contact these days, it strikes me that a PL team that decides to kick teams off the pitch would fail pretty epically.

Playing direct or long ball football does not necessarily equate to dirty and cynical play. I'm beginning to get very amused by a certain sector of soccer fans who in their single minded belief in a particular style of football are actually showing themselves to be incredibly narrow minded to any other style and its effectiveness.

SDTimeout

DB10 wrote: »

Spot on.

Teams will continue to kick us around, as long as they get results. And even if they don't get the win, the will all have a better chance doing so.

There is a reason we always drop points at the likes of Birmingham and it isn't because Birmingham are 1970's Brazil.

The best teams IMO, can win playing great attacking football and when necessary win playing dirty.

Think the Arsenal of old, or now Chelsea and United. City are getting close to that status as well.

Teams will kick anybody around so long as they get results.

But what team has kicked us around this season and gotten a result ?

We beat B'Ham at home and it was a goalkeeping error and kevin phillips that cost us all 3 points towards the end of the season!


Thing is in arsenals season we have learned to deal with this. We were beaten 9 times , United, City, Sunderland, Cheslea, Spurs, Blackburn, Wigan. Blackburn, Spurs and Wigan were all end of season slumps.

Over the season we put 6 past bolton.
5 past stoke
5 past hull.

Meaning we left with 18 points.

These teams kick arsenal, but so many people have failed to see Arsenal have gotten that steel and grit to grind out these matches, hell not even grind out these matches to convincingly win these matches.

It's our lack of quality in depth against the chelsea, united, city that cost us this season.

DB10

PHB wrote: »

Sorry. The Dutch tried to actively injure players, like they were violant. I've never seen Bolton Hull or Blackburn be anywhere near as bad as the Dutch.

I agree with the sentiment we can't deal with rough play but I'm sorry that is rubbish. The Dutch were in no way worse than some of the thugs in the PL.

I can only recall maybe 2 blatant fouls to hurt the other player. De Jong and Van Bommel's two footed tackle from behind.

I'm sorry but anyone who wants to see worse, watch another team in orange, Hull vs Arsenal last season.

In all my years of watching football, never have actually thought a team went out purposely to injure other players until that game. Disgusted, it was one week after Shawcross broke Ramsey's leg. Well in that game I counted 4 leg breaking tackles, should have been at least 4-5 red cards in that one game. Phil Brown, pure scumbag.

SDTimeout

DB10 wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment we can't deal with rough play but I'm sorry that is rubbish. The Dutch were in no way worse than some of the thugs in the PL.

I can only recall maybe 2 blatant fouls to hurt the other player. De Jong and Van Bommel's two footed tackle from behind.

I'm sorry but anyone who wants to see worse, watch another team in orange, Hull vs Arsenal last season.

In all my years of watching football, never have actually thought a team went out purposely to injure other players until that game. Disgusted, it was one week after Shawcross broke Ramsey's leg. Well in that game I counted 4 leg breaking tackles, should have been at least 4-5 red cards in that one game. Phil Brown, pure scumbag.

At the end of the day the hacks have been telling Arsenal for years you need to win in these situations. Spain won in this situation and we beat hull that day.

If we had of lost it would have been man up Arsenal.

DB10

SDTimeout wrote: »

Teams will kick anybody around so long as they get results.

But what team has kicked us around this season and gotten a result ?

We beat B'Ham at home and it was a goalkeeping error and kevin phillips that cost us all 3 points towards the end of the season!


Thing is in arsenals season we have learned to deal with this. We were beaten 9 times , United, City, Sunderland, Cheslea, Spurs, Blackburn, Wigan. Blackburn, Spurs and Wigan were all end of season slumps.

Over the season we put 6 past bolton.
5 past stoke
5 past hull.

Meaning we left with 18 points.

These teams kick arsenal, but so many people have failed to see Arsenal have gotten that steel and grit to grind out these matches, hell not even grind out these matches to convincingly win these matches.

It's our lack of quality in depth against the chelsea, united, city that cost us this season.

Bolton for me are no a longer thuggish side, especially under Owen Coyle.

You are looking at defeats what I'm saying is these teams get draws as well. The myth that we collapse when kicked has not yet been ended, that is why next season we will be kicked around at places like Birmingham, Blackburn, Stoke etc.

We lost to Blackburn last season, all they done was pressurise the keeper
and tackle hard. Not good enough.

We also threw away the title at Birmingham, we should have been more than 1-0 up and although Almunia made another howler, we performed very badly on the day.

Boskowski

I really like Arsenal, they're the one team in England I'd nearly call myself some sort of supporter.

What Arsenal need is more "bottle". When it comes to it it's the one thing that keeps them turning someone like United over in a crunch game.
They need someone like van Bommel in there. Arsene seems to love players who are lovely players but if you go 'boooo' at them they're gone.

SDTimeout

DB10 wrote: »

Bolton for me are no a longer thuggish side, especially under Owen Coyle.

You are looking at defeats what I'm saying is these teams get draws as well. The myth that we collapse when kicked has not yet been ended, that is why next season we will be kicked around at places like Birmingham, Blackburn, Stoke etc.

We lost to Blackburn last season, all they done was pressurise the keeper
and tackle hard. Not good enough.

We also threw away the title at Birmingham, we should have been more than 1-0 up and although Almunia made another howler, we performed very badly on the day.

Ok we will look at draws too West Ham, Burnley, Everton, B'Ham, City, Villa.

Our own faults vs West Ham.
Burnley were impenetrable at home early season.
Everton we we're lucky to get a draw
B'Ham mentioned above
City end of season clash
Villa a 0-0.

None of those teams kicked us, infact the one team that kicked us hard and broken our players leg we went on to win that match.

Just curious what is your logic that our squad if anything has been added to. We have not lost song for example yet you know we are going to kicked around by B'Ham ( who by all accounts play good football ) Blackburn and stoke ?

flahavaj

I think this whole idea that Arsenal can be beaten by kicking them is a myth by now. They beat pretty much everyone except the bigger teams last seasopn. If they want to make the step up to champions they need to reverse the results against the Uniteds and Chelseas of this world, not worry about Hull et al, who they murdered last year.

jank

PHB wrote: »

And for the talk of Arsenal being these nice guys, I can remember two particular occassions in the recent past when Arsenal players attacked Nani because he was showing off too much flair.

.

Attacked? Did they punch him? Did they attack him with an ax?

jank

flahavaj wrote: »

I think this whole idea that Arsenal can be beaten by kicking them is a myth by now. They beat pretty much everyone except the bigger teams last seasopn. If they want to make the step up to champions they need to reverse the results against the Uniteds and Chelseas of this world, not worry about Hull et al, who they murdered last year.

Agree about this.The whole 'get up 'em' has been pushed by the media and other clubs because bolton had some success with this tactic some years back under Big Sam. Now its accepted as fact. More often than not Arsenal will win these matches however loose one and its back to 'they dont like them up 'em', 'its how you win against arsenal'! Hansen and co spouting the usual $hit...
While even if they beat a team hany but the other team continues to kick lumps out of them its 'whatever, next'! No condemnation by the media.

Boskowski

flahavaj wrote: »

I think this whole idea that Arsenal can be beaten by kicking them is a myth by now. They beat pretty much everyone except the bigger teams last seasopn. If they want to make the step up to champions they need to reverse the results against the Uniteds and Chelseas of this world, not worry about Hull et al, who they murdered last year.

Not saying 'kicking', not at all. And I'm not parroting Hansen either (to someone elses comment). It's my own observation.

Whats separates Arsenal from United is mentality moreso than ability IMHO. United can force a sh1tty game home by sheer willpower if you like. When it comes to that crunch game or that crunch phase of the season it seems that grit (or lack thereof) is what separates Arsenal from United. Could be as little as those couple of senior players who can read a game and decide its time to stick a boot in give a bollicking to their junior colleagues who they are respected and at times almost feared by. Not sure if my observation is correct just what it looks like to me.

Pepe LeFrits

Just to re-iterate, Arsenal's league results last season against the first few teams I noticed mentioned in this thread:


Arsenal 6-2 Blackburn Rovers
Arsenal 2-0 Stoke City
Arsenal 3-0 Hull City
Bolton Wanderers 0-2 Arsenal
Arsenal 4-2 Bolton Wanderers
Stoke City 1-3 Arsenal
Blackburn Rovers 2-1 Arsenal
Hull City 1-2 Arsenal

1 defeat on the penultimate day of the season when the league was already gone. Oooooh. Soft bastards. Man up Ramsey you fairy.

flahavaj

Boskowski wrote: »

Not saying 'kicking', not at all. And I'm not parroting Hansen either (to someone elses comment). It's my own observation.

Whats separates Arsenal from United is mentality moreso than ability IMHO. United can force a sh1tty game home by sheer willpower if you like. When it comes to that crunch game or that crunch phase of the season it seems that grit (or lack thereof) is what separates Arsenal from United. Could be as little as those couple of senior players who can read a game and decide its time to stick a boot in give a bollicking to their junior colleagues who they are respected and at times almost feared by. Not sure if my observation is correct just what it looks like to me.

I wasn't referring to anything you said in particular, just the general notion that some have expressed in this thread (and one that is still peddled in the media) that kicking Arsenal still works.

I agree with all of your post actually. Asrsenal badly need more leadership on the pitch - especially now that Gallas is gone (not that he was even that great a leader, but at least he was experienced) - as you said a van Bommel or Roy Keane type figure would fit the mould perfectly, or a John Terry type at the back.