[Heritage] Foyle Valley Railway & the UK's 2013 Capital of Culture

Judgement Day

With the designation of Derry as the UK's 'Capital of Culture' for 2013 one wonders if this could be the saving of the defunct Foyle Valley Railway Museum? The project which has been effectively closed down for the last ten years has the potential to be one of the biggest tourist attractions on the island of Ireland. It occupies a unique position amongst preserved railways in the British Isles, and probably Western Europe, in that its terminus is in the city centre of a major city. This is something for which most preservation projects would kill. All those in Derry/L'derry need their collective heads banging together to put this project back centre stage where it properly belongs.

I would like to suggest that those interested in the project should contact Derry City Council in the first instance and ask them what their intentions are - I will be later today.

Derry City Council,
98 Strand Road,
Derry,
BT48 7NN
Tel: (028) 7136 5151
Fax: (028) 7126 4858
Email: info@derrycity.gov.uk

The Lord Mayor of Derry is SDLP councillor Colum Eastwood and his contact details are here:

Councillor Colum Eastwood
Email columeastwood@yahoo.co.uk

Press Office
Tel 028 90 42 1837

Please don't leave it to somebody else!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/jul/15/derry-capital-of-culture-2013

Transportuser09

Interesting, the city centre presence would indeed be a major plus point as you point out.

eejoynt

of course if they want advice on how to amass historic rail vehicles for preservation, neglect them until most of them are scrapped, Derry council could do worse than contact an ex member of the GSRPS; proprietors of Mallow scrapyard and Fenit branch "restoration" - black hole for public money

do the words
pot
kettle and

black mean anything to you judgement day?

Judgement Day

eejoynt wrote: »

of course if they want advice on how to amass historic rail vehicles for preservation, neglect them until most of them are scrapped, Derry council could do worse than contact an ex member of the GSRPS; proprietors of Mallow scrapyard and Fenit branch "restoration" - black hole for public money

do the words
pot
kettle and

black mean anything to you judgement day?

Why don't you enlighten us with your great inside knowledge of GSRPS operations (preferably in a new thread) and own contribution to preservation instead of trolling in this thread? I suppose we can take it that you won't be bothering to contact Derry City Council - there again with your attitude it is probably better that you don't.

orangetrain

I thought the trains from Derry were gone to Fintown Donegal now? I saw something about them getting a Donegal tank engine restored at the RPSI works.

By the way what is GSRPS?

Victor

orangetrain wrote: »

By the way what is GSRPS?

Judean Peoples Front of .... Great Southern Railway Preservation Society.

orangetrain

Victor wrote: »

Judean Peoples Front of .... Great Southern Railway Preservation Society.

Thanks, I suppose it looks obvious now . Where is the group based, there not mentioned in any heritage site lists I have.

Ham'nd'egger

orangetrain wrote: »

Thanks, I suppose it looks obvious now . Where is the group based, there not mentioned in any heritage site lists I have.

They went bust after some "management" issues. JD will fill you in on his side of it, I'm sure but you'll find you will need some salt for the auld pinching

Judgement Day

orangetrain wrote: »

Thanks, I suppose it looks obvious now . Where is the group based, there not mentioned in any heritage site lists I have.

I will be charitable and assume that you are not a stalker. The GSRPS ceased to function in late 1989/90. The GSPRS Co.Limited was dissolved in the 1990's - I will post the date later and the GSRP Society technically still exists as it as never been officially wound-up. Perhaps if I have the energy I will post a thread on it later with a once-off definitive statement. Now back to Derry - please!

acknefton

this stuff goes over the heds of most of us

what did GSRPS have? was it all scrapped?

what happened with the fenit branch?

Ham'nd'egger

Judgement Day wrote: »

No, just accute boredom with your behaviour and repeatedly dragging my threads off topic.

I didn't say anything except to comment on a post here. That paranoia gets worse with you for some mad reason;)

Back on thread, Foyle Valley has been closed some time now but there is long term plans to reopen it.

Judgement Day

Hamndegger wrote: »

They went bust after some "management" issues. JD will fill you in on his side of it, I'm sure but you'll find you will need some salt for the auld pinching

There you go again - they went bust - the GSRPS never went bust so where did you get that from? There was a bust-up between working members due to differing ideas of what direction the GSRPS should take. The Tralee/Fenit branch was never a popular choice with most members and was foisted on the society by CIE from the outset. I will leave any further info for my GSRPS thread - if I can be bothered. Life really is too short and as the person who lost most financially over the GSRPS project - if I can move on why can't others.

Ham'nd'egger

Judgement Day wrote: »

There you go again - they went bust - the GSRPS never went bust so where did you get that from? There was a bust-up between working members due to differing ideas of what direction the GSRPS should take. The Tralee/Fenit branch was never a popular choice with most members and was foisted on the society by CIE from the outset. I will leave any further info for my GSRPS thread - if I can be bothered. Life really is too short and as the person who lost most financially over the GSRPS project - if I can move on why can't others.

That's what I was told by some guy I know who was a high up RPSI member but I notice that CIE now get the blame instead of GSRPS memberships. I wonder why's that:rolleyes:

Victor

Guys knock it off. If you have a problem with Judgement Day, either say it out properly or take it private, none of this innuendo.

And lets try to stay on topic.

eejoynt

As i understand it there was a row between the preservationists and the council. It was grounded I think in Northern politics.

The council as i understand it told the preservationists to take a hike - which they did to Baile na Finne.

tugadh deontaisi dóibh ó chisti Udarás na Gaeltachta, agus déirigh thar barr leis an pairtnéaracht nua- bhi an iarnrod caomhnaithe ar lag trá faoin am seo.

fuair an cáin iocaitheoir luach maith ón fiontair seo

Judgement Day

eejoynt - I am sure that I am not alone in not understanding the last part of your post - would you care to translate for some of us who don't have any Irish?

eejoynt

May i recommend Google translate
hint value for taxpayers money is mentioned

BTW thank you for that comprehensive post on the GSRPS. There may be other sides of the story which other posters may address, if they wish but you have taken the time and trouble to set out your stall.

As you say JD at least you tried, but given the comprehensive nature of the failure of the veinture and the large amount of public money wasted, some posters might view your posts on transport and railway operation as just a little bit rich.

Thanks again for the post - when can we expect

Judgement Day two - the Cavan and Leitrim years?

Propellerhead

eejoynt wrote: »

May i recommend Google translate
hint value for taxpayers money is mentioned

BTW thank you for that comprehensive post on the GSRPS. There may be other sides of the story which other posters may address, if they wish but you have taken the time and trouble to set out your stall.

As you say JD at least you tried, but given the comprehensive nature of the failure of the veinture and the large amount of public money wasted, some posters might view your posts on transport and railway operation as just a little bit rich.

Thanks again for the post - when can we expect

Judgement Day two - the Cavan and Leitrim years?

I'm hearing bitchiness and exclusivity. Why would I as someone interested in railways even remotely want to get involved in something like that? I spent eleven miserable years in Irish politics but this hints of something even worse.

Judgement Day

Anyway here we are again - I emailed Derry City Council, the new Lord Mayor and the CEO of the Northern Ireland Tourist Board on the 20/7/10 as promised and apart from an out of office reply (which I responded to) I have heard nothing - there's a surprise. I emailed all three again today and a further weeks grace will be given before doing a round of the media as well. As somebody on another forum so quaintly put it 'spamming'! But it does work as you only have to hit one person who reacts in the right way to start the ball rolling. What the buffoon in the other forum failed to see is that this is the way to use the power of the internet to its maximum and only a fool would ignore such a tool. When I first use to campaign about things it was using a manual typewriter, a gestetner machine, envelopes, stamps and an inordinate delay while thing passed to and fro in the post. And you tell young people today and they don't believe you!

Stonewolf

I visited the FVR way back in the 90s and took a ride on the railcar (I think it was CDR #12 at the time), happened to be going through Fintown the other week and I noticed that FVR owned CDR #18 was running on loan there since the museum in Derry had closed.

The FVR, Cumann Treanach and CDRRS are 3, THREE organisations preserving old CDR stock/track (and that's not even counting the transport museum in Ulster and the Isle of Man railway). It's tempting to say they should all get together and form one organisation to do it all but I'd say that's almost certainly impossible.

Judgement Day

Sadly the two CDR railcars (Nos.19 & 20) on the Isle of Man are, at best, half restored. Since the money ran out for their completion some years ago they have lain down the back of the workshops at Douglas. They were dragged out for a Manx Transport festival during June this year.

eejoynt

tell us a bit a bout your time in the isle of man
was it as crowned with success as the GSRPS,
and was it before or after your period at dromod?

Judgement Day

eejoynt wrote: »

tell us a bit a bout your time in the isle of man
was it as crowned with success as the GSRPS,
and was it before or after your period at dromod?

Can't you go away and find yourself a proper hobby like pulling the wings off flies because you're not much good at baiting people?

Judgement Day

Another week on and no replies from anybody. I've just emailed them all again (the 3rd time) and this day next week I will pursue them through the local media if I haven't heard back by then. Is it any wonder that the country is banjoed when people can't even find the time to answer their emails? Perhaps they are all too busy, working hard to help the recovery effort. :rolleyes:

Judgement Day

At last some feedback.

If anybody has suggestions they might like to contact Roisin Doherty see below:


Dear

Thank you for your query regarding the Foyle Valley Railway. It has been passed to me today for attention. I can provide you with an update regarding the above:
Derry City Council Heritage and Museum Service and Economic Development Section appointed a team of consultants to undertake research into the potential for an expanded museum development at the current Foyle Valley Railway Museum site. This piece of work was to examine the potential of the FVR existing site but also the wider hinterland as well.
The invitation document brief emphasized the following points:
“The Foyle Valley Railway presents an outstanding opportunity for a high profile, family friendly visitor attraction development. The current museum is a well known local attraction. It has a strong following, with community appeal. It has always been attractive to families – particularly with small children. Development of the site will help improve the heritage product in the City thus enhancing the tourism infrastructure and enabling the city to develop a reputation as a centre of excellence for arts, culture and heritage. The strong local relevance of the site and of the histories will strengthen the community and educational opportunities for local people. It will also strengthen the City’s bid for Cultural World Heritage status and for UK City of Culture 2013.”
We welcome your ideas and suggestions regarding the Foyle Valley Railway Museum and will take them into consideration when working with the team of consultants in finalizing the document. Once we have the final feasibility document with a list of proposed options/recommendations we can then look at potential funding sources.
Once again - thank you for your interest and If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards,
Roisin Doherty
Head of Heritage & Museum Service
Derry City Council
Harbour Museum
Harbour Square
Derry BT48 6AF
Tel: 048 7137 7331
E-mail: roisin.doherty@derrycity.gov.uk

Cookie_Monster

that's just the usual "hire consultants, washes hands" email.

Some more positive than most though

The Idyll Race

Judgement Day wrote: »

At last some feedback.

If anybody has suggestions they might like to contact Roisin Doherty see below:


Dear

Thank you for your query regarding the Foyle Valley Railway. It has been passed to me today for attention. I can provide you with an update regarding the above:
Derry City Council Heritage and Museum Service and Economic Development Section appointed a team of consultants to undertake research into the potential for an expanded museum development at the current Foyle Valley Railway Museum site. This piece of work was to examine the potential of the FVR existing site but also the wider hinterland as well.
The invitation document brief emphasized the following points:
“The Foyle Valley Railway presents an outstanding opportunity for a high profile, family friendly visitor attraction development. The current museum is a well known local attraction. It has a strong following, with community appeal. It has always been attractive to families – particularly with small children. Development of the site will help improve the heritage product in the City thus enhancing the tourism infrastructure and enabling the city to develop a reputation as a centre of excellence for arts, culture and heritage. The strong local relevance of the site and of the histories will strengthen the community and educational opportunities for local people. It will also strengthen the City’s bid for Cultural World Heritage status and for UK City of Culture 2013.”
We welcome your ideas and suggestions regarding the Foyle Valley Railway Museum and will take them into consideration when working with the team of consultants in finalizing the document. Once we have the final feasibility document with a list of proposed options/recommendations we can then look at potential funding sources.
Once again - thank you for your interest and If you have any further queries, please do not hesitate to contact me.
Regards,
Roisin Doherty
Head of Heritage & Museum Service
Derry City Council
Harbour Museum
Harbour Square
Derry BT48 6AF
Tel: 048 7137 7331
E-mail: roisin.doherty@derrycity.gov.uk

For the first time in at least five years I got into the Foyle Valley Railway museum yesterday, and I am regularly in Derry and NE Donegal.

One of the CDR railcars is there, clean as a whistle with a little tractor unit behind it. While the exhibits inside look well, the same cannot be said for the track outside, which is in the advanced state of neglect we associate with "care and maintenance". The loco outside is behind eight foot high wire mesh and the driving cab is covered with metal panels to prevent the usual vandalism.

IMHO the track will all have to be ripped up and relaid. There are plenty of burned, rotting sleepers and weed overgrowth, along with paths overlaying the running line. If Derry City Council were in anyway serious about having the 3' track back in operation for the City of Culture there is damn-all evidence of it, especially when you see workers powering on over on the other side of the Foyle at the Waterside station for an April 2013 deadline.

Losty Dublin

The Idyll Race wrote: »

For the first time in at least five years I got into the Foyle Valley Railway museum yesterday, and I am regularly in Derry and NE Donegal.

One of the CDR railcars is there, clean as a whistle with a little tractor unit behind it. While the exhibits inside look well, the same cannot be said for the track outside, which is in the advanced state of neglect we associate with "care and maintenance". The loco outside is behind eight foot high wire mesh and the driving cab is covered with metal panels to prevent the usual vandalism.

IMHO the track will all have to be ripped up and relaid. There are plenty of burned, rotting sleepers and weed overgrowth, along with paths overlaying the running line. If Derry City Council were in anyway serious about having the 3' track back in operation for the City of Culture there is damn-all evidence of it, especially when you see workers powering on over on the other side of the Foyle at the Waterside station for an April 2013 deadline.

Perchance, did you take any photos? Also, was the museum open to the public or was this arranged privately?

The Idyll Race

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Perchance, did you take any photos? Also, was the museum open to the public or was this arranged privately?

I have plenty of photos, need to get them off the camera first. It was a pure fluke, I had been at the Waterside station and saw the shutters open on the FVR when I was on the Craigavon Bridge.

The Idyll Race

I only have steam powered Midband up here, proving too slow to upload pics yet, if I get a faster connection later or tomorrow morning I'll upload a couple.

The Idyll Race

Right! Got the first one up:

Cyberbeagle

From what I recall that footpath was the main killer of the scheme. Not helping the relationship between the Council and the Society.

No-one I know can figure out for the life of me why the footpath got the go ahead without a fence between the railway and it being built. Certainly at planning stage this should've been worked out!

Judgement Day

That picture is quite unbelieveable - it's like the T&D at the time of closure. Only in Ireland and proof that Derry should have been included in the Republic.

The Idyll Race

Judgement Day wrote: »

That picture is quite unbelieveable - it's like the T&D at the time of closure. Only in Ireland and proof that Derry should have been included in the Republic.

That track is less than twenty years old! So much for the SDLP-Sinn Fein dominated Derry City Council doing anything positive for the old GNR line..

Judgement Day

Tralee & Dingle near Camp in 1953.

Cyberbeagle

Judgement Day wrote: »

Only in Ireland and proof that Derry should have been included in the Republic.

Or that (much of) Donegal should've been included in NI as per the Boundary Commission's recommendations??

Not entirely too sure how the state of the FVR demonstrates "the inherent unfairness of partition"... That the closure of the FVR is somehow the Brits fault is a new one on me...

gobnaitolunacy

Cyberbeagle wrote: »

Or that (much of) Donegal should've been included in NI as per the Boundary Commission's recommendations??

Not entirely too sure how the state of the FVR demonstrates "the inherent unfairness of partition"... That the closure of the FVR is somehow the Brits fault is a new one on me...

I think JD may be trying to liken the current state of the FVR to preservation movements in the Republic that bit the dust over the years. I'll wager for every Severn Valley or NYMR success story there are 100's maybe 1000's of moribund projects in the uk.

Cyberbeagle

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

I think JD may be trying to liken the current state of the FVR to preservation movements in the Republic that bit the dust over the years. I'll wager for every Severn Valley or NYMR success story there are 100's maybe 1000's of moribund projects in the uk.

Ah! If that was the case the irony went straight over my head!!

The scandal about the FVR closure is that it appears to be due to politics rather than financial.

The trouble with leaving it so long is that it means that the track has deteriorated. Personally I get the feeling Derry City Council don't really know what to do with it.

I never got to travel on it. I went up on what turned out to be the last day, the NIR train was delayed and I crossed the Craigavon Bridge to see the last railcar of the day disappearing round the corner!

Judgement Day

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

I think JD may be trying to liken the current state of the FVR to preservation movements in the Republic that bit the dust over the years. I'll wager for every Severn Valley or NYMR success story there are 100's maybe 1000's of moribund projects in the uk.

+1

I meant that Derry City Council and others by their actions/inactions re.the Foyle Valley Railway have shown characteristics more typical of local authorities etc. in the Republic and as such would more at home on this side of the border.

Incidentally, I wouldn't agree with your analysis of preservation in Britain, and as far as I know there have been relatively few completely abortive schemes. Some high profile failures such as the Waverley route preservation scheme but more often than not, a disagreement on a railway preservation project's direction in Britain usually leads to two projects where there was originally only one. Here failure has had disastrous results...Tralee/Fenit; Tralee/Blennerville; WISRA (Attymon/Loughrea) and as WESTRAIL (Tuam) and not forgetting Dromod. :rolleyes: