It's a race...no it's not...is too..is not..etc

Slideshowbob

petethedrummer wrote: »

Thats the point you are making now. Now that you have moved the goalposts once again. Your original comment was another snide remark against people who haven't completed the RAS or whatever level you achieved.

You now say you are trying to make things clear for newbies to the sport. Which is a joke. You are continually snide to low level racers on here and never ever post any advice to anyone on cycling matters, despite being a bloody expert.

What was so snide about:

"is there testing at the marmotte? or will there be at the Etape Hibernina? Neither are UCI sanctioned are they? Are there prizes for winning? how much? ta"

All genuine questions. It's a fact they ain't UCI sanctioned races !!!

I am trying to clarify things here, separating the wheat from the chaf if you like.

Sure there are plenty of well informed people here to talk about such advice you talk about.

Slideshowbob

TinyExplosions wrote: »

That's exactly it Tonto, someone who has placed first in the Marmotte is a lesser cyclist that an A4 who wins around Batterstown

I'd guess that's not the case - but not all coming on here may be seniors remember that.

An under 12, 14, 16 can go and do a race in Batterstown or such places - not so easy for them to do the Marmotte.

TinyExplosions

Slideshowbob wrote: »

I'd guess that's not the case - but not all coming on here may be seniors remember that.

An under 12, 14, 16 can go and do a race in Batterstown or such places - not so easy for them to do the Marmotte.

But that's the argument you are making -that the Marmotte isn't a race, so that if you were to go over, and get round in the fastest time, and go into work the next day and tell people about it, you'd be misleading people and de-meriting those hard working A4's in the Club leagues? After all, that's what you said:

Well it does if you chose to mislead work colleagues, partners, friends etc after if you say you have taken part in a race then it wasn't in fact a race. It de-merits endeavours of others.

My post above was asking what you classify the Marmotte as?

Slideshowbob

TinyExplosions wrote: »

But that's the argument you are making -that the Marmotte isn't a race, so that if you were to go over, and get round in the fastest time, and go into work the next day and tell people about it, you'd be misleading people and de-meriting those hard working A4's in the Club leagues? After all, that's what you said:



My post above was asking what you classify the Marmotte as?

It aint a race. Another thing - there's no commisaires at it !! :cool:

It's a hard event by sounds of it - I doubt anyone reading this will have to worry about such deliberations.

blorg

Slideshowbob wrote: »

It's a fact they ain't UCI sanctioned races !!!

No-one ever claimed they were UCI sanctioned races. You came up with the definition that a race must be UCI sanctioned for it to be a race. Except when it's not UCI sanctioned (like British time trialling) but is still a race because you say so.

The Tour de France was not a UCI sanctioned race in 2008; indeed the UCI threatened to ban any riders who took part in it! So on that basis the Tour in 2008 was not a race.

Would you consider the Race Across America to be a race?

Slideshowbob

blorg wrote: »

No-one ever claimed they were UCI sanctioned races. You came up with the definition that a race must be UCI sanctioned for it to be a race. Except when it's not UCI sanctioned (like British time trialling) but is still a race because you say so.

The Tour de France was not a UCI sanctioned race in 2008; indeed the UCI threatened to ban any riders who took part in it! So on that basis the Tour in 2008 was not a race.

Would you consider the Race Across America to be a race?

Yes - a race for lunatics

I'll add to that - there are robust RAAM rules where-in they refer to UCI regs about bicycle dimensions and doping.

Is there such rules for Marmotte and etape hibernia

TinyExplosions

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Yes - a race for lunatics

I'll add to that - there are robust RAAM rules where-in they refer to UCI regs about bicycle dimensions and doping.

Is there such rules for Marmotte and etape hibernia

Ah, we've got to the bottom of it now! Anything bob thinks is a race is, everything else is not!

chakattack

el tonto wrote: »

Three pages of debate on semantics. Let no one say this forum isn't intellectual.

The best part is that there was a statement saying something along the lines of "lets not argue about semantics" on the first page.

I know it's raining but surely there is something better to waste your time on.....

furiousox

Lock the thread!!
Lock the goddamm thread!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY-03vYYAjA

IM0

also for someone who has no clue about the marmotte, you seem to 'know' quite a bit about it

allow me to blow some more holes in your posts

there are commisaires at the marmotte mKay?

Slideshowbob

me@ucd wrote: »

also for someone who has no clue about the marmotte, you seem to 'know' quite a bit about it

allow me to blow some more holes in your posts

there are commisaires at the marmotte mKay?

If you read info on the Marmotte site you'll see they are there to among other things, make sure rubbish isn't strewn around the place so not commissaires in the normal sense of road racing.

TinyExplosions

Slideshowbob wrote: »

If you read info on the Marmotte site you'll see they are there to among other things, make sure rubbish isn't strewn around the place so not commissaires in the normal sense of road racing.

Don't forget guys, logic and common sense has nothing in common with bobs world!

bamboozling

Guys this is my first time posting in the cycling thread. I like nothing better than a short spin on the bike and have been following the Tour de France intently. I came across this thread and read the linked article fully, a really interesting article and one which I assumed would strike up an intelligent debate about doping and cheating in cycling.

Yet no, I got 6 pages of bickering and bitching about what's a race, how do you define a race, how many needed for a race and a whole plethora of horseshite. I'm quite dissapointed as having read some of the Tour de France threads I expected better as they have been an excellent read. Casual followers of cycling like myslef and others won't be frequenting this forum if this is what's on offer. Just my two cents worth.

Stokolan

bamboozling wrote: »

Guys this is my first time posting in the cycling thread. I like nothing better than a short spin on the bike and have been following the Tour de France intently. I came across this thread and read the linked article fully, a really interesting article and one which I assumed would strike up an intelligent debate about doping and cheating in cycling.

Yet no, I got 6 pages of bickering and bitching about what's a race, how do you define a race, how many needed for a race and a whole plethora of horseshite. I'm quite dissapointed as having read some of the Tour de France threads I expected better as they have been an excellent read. Casual followers of cycling like myslef and others won't be frequenting this forum if this is what's on offer. Just my two cents worth.

Welcome to 410.

Normally the bickering is sent to here http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055774887 my guess is the mods are a over worked and havent had time to move it yet.

niceonetom

bamboozling wrote: »

Guys this is my first time posting in the cycling thread. ..

So your first and only contribution to the conversation is to tell everyone that you're disappointed in them. Forgive me for not being heartbroken at being robbed of your future input. Have you confused public discussion for journalism? Do you feel that this forum owes you something?

If you don't participate in the conversation you have no right to criticise it. IMO.

niceonetom

So Mr. Fowl you too are operating under the utterly bizarre assumption that we have to check with the UCI (or similar body) before we are allowed to call something a 'race'. They own that word. We use it at their discretion. It's like champagne - a protected word.

Really?

Also, due to the lack of doping control, racing did not exist before the 1960s.

If people are racing - it's a race. To argue otherwise requires to much mental contortion and appeal to authority to even be entertained as an argument.

Nietzschean

niceonetom wrote: »

Really?

I'm more surprised that your surprised Rob's sticking up for Bob.

RobFowl

niceonetom wrote: »

So Mr. Fowl you too are operating under the utterly bizarre assumption that we have to check with the UCI (or similar body) before we are allowed to call something a 'race'.

I am indeed, but you are entitled to your own opinion.

In fact there is an organisation which shares your philosophy :rolleyes:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

Junior

Before this thread disappears up it's own hole, and it looks like it might .. a definition for you all..

A sport race is a competition of speed, against an objective criterion, usually a clock or to a specific point. The competitors in a race try to complete a given task in the shortest amount of time. Typically this involves traversing some distance, but it can be any other task involving speed to reach a specific goal.
A race may be run continuously from start to finish or may be made of several segments called heats, stages or legs. A heat is usually run over the same course at different times. A stage is a shorter section of a much longer course or a time trial.

So regardless of governing body, doping testing, licensing etc, I think what Quigs Snr said a few pages back if a Prize is award for placings it's a race.

niceonetom

Nietzschean wrote: »

I'm more surprised that your surprised Rob's sticking up for Bob.

I think they share a common interest here; elevating past achievements and fawning hero-worship of the men of the Rás (thereby basking in the vicarious glory of it).

As far as I can tell every club in this country is swollen (both literally and metaphorically) with guys who are much much more interested in telling long-winded tales of handlebars-chewing heroics 20+ years ago than in doing any sort of actual bike riding themselves. Woe betide any young rider who doesn't do the requisite awe at the story of the time Jimmy John Joe McBollockchops rode back on to the peloton with three broken legs and humiliated the Belgian pros. "That's real racing" they'll tell you. Until this thread I didn't really know they took that phrase quite so literally.

I know Rob does own and ride a bike.

I've seen absolutely no evidence that Bob does.

Lumen

Even the UCI don't claim to be the governing body for the English language.

niceonetom

RobFowl wrote: »

I am indeed, but you are entitled to your own opinion.

In fact there is an organisation which shares your philosophy :rolleyes:

http://theflatearthsociety.org/cms/

I can only assume you've totally missed the point.

ROK ON

LMAO. CLASS.
Tom, the legend that is JJJ McBollock exists in every club in the country from cycling to GAA to rugby to golf.

But I think we all really know what a race is and would be realistic enough to admit that there are different levels of a race.

RobFowl

Regarding cyclo-sportifs and whether the Marmotte etc are races I'm with Bob on this one. Certainly they are supreme amateur challenges and are very competitive. There is no anti-doping , proper enforcement of the rules of racing (anyone who's ridden open races will have been under supervision of a comm and at the RAS they are extremely observant and proactive).

If you do consider them races then at best the analogy I would have is in the world of body building. There there are "natural" events where doping is banned and tested for and other events where there is an open policy the the entrants can do whatever and take whatever they want to prepare.
Out of interest there are riders like Raimundas Rumsas (he of the UCI ban and wife following him in the TDF with a pharmacy in the boot) and Jamie Burrow who are sponsored are make a living of sorts from these events.

If you do consider them races then good luck to you (BTW LA is the worlds greatest ever cyclist, Ullrich never doped, Tyler Hamilton had a Chimeric twin and Floyd Landis obviously banged his head and is lying through his teeth at the moment).

IMO if the Marmotte et al are races then they are of this variety....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlTlL53KGRs

Lumen I suppose would be Professor Pat Pending
SideShowBob if he entered would have to be Dick Dastardly
With the beard Blorg would have to be one of the Slag brothers
And of course Caroline would have to be Penelope Pitstop .......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wacky_Races

niceonetom wrote: »

I can only assume you've totally missed the point.

I was only joking there, sorry if I offended you.

I suppose I'm quite biased . I do work on the RAS but I also work with a lot of elite cyclists who race abroad and I do have difficulty reconciling the ethos of race's as I understand them (as the lads based in Belgium and France especially compete in) and timed Grand Fondo style events.

It comes down to opinions and mine is just different from yours.

Chips Lovell

"not it's not"????

Lumen

el tonto wrote: »

"not it's not"????

I was obsessing over apostrophe usage and missed the typo.

Slideshowbob

Thanks Lumen for going to the bother of creating a separate thread on this.

I too have experience of real racing in such far flung places as Belgium, France and beyond, helps me put it all in context.

Fair play to anyone who gets on a bike, whether to go to the shops, ride and randonnee/cyclosportive or rides Le Tour de France, or even just helps out - but let's not loose sense of reality.

niceonetom

There should really be another full stop after the "etc".

DirkVoodoo

Well done on your placing last night in that officially organized and sanctioned club race by the way.

Shame you are only a pathetic amateur though.

I agree with a comment I saw recently, there are a lot of nasty threads popping up here recently. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy partaking in these rants as much as the next guy (sometimes too much!) but come on, it's Tour season! Surely there are better things to talk about?

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I agree with a comment I saw recently, there are a lot of nasty threads popping up here recently. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy partaking in these rants as much as the next guy (sometimes too much!) but come on, it's Tour season! Surely there are better things to talk about?

This thread isn't nasty, there's not even any substantial personal abuse.

Do I need to bring Kona into this? Do I?

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

This thread isn't nasty, there's not even any substantial personal abuse.

Do I need to bring Kona into this? Do I?

Well, if the neutral observer is to be believed. Maybe not nasty, bitchy?

Captain Havoc

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I agree with a comment I saw recently, there are a lot of nasty threads popping up here recently. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy partaking in these rants as much as the next guy (sometimes too much!) but come on, it's Tour season! Surely there are better things to talk about?

Have to agree with you, we should be getting stroppy and moody when we're forced onto our turbo trainers around Christmas and not the most wonderful time of the year when we get to pedal our farmer tanned legs off as fast as we can so to get back in time to watch the TdF highlights.

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Well, if the neutral observer is to be believed. Maybe not nasty, bitchy?

To keep this vaguely on-the-off-topic, the "neutral observer" would be the commissaire, not the unattached rider who launches random attacks without forming any allegiances.

I am taking the role of the Pat McQuaid figure. Supposedly neutral but thoroughly marinated in bias.

DirkVoodoo

Ok...

I'll leave you to it so.

Slideshowbob

Lumen wrote: »

This thread isn't nasty, there's not even any substantial personal abuse.

Do I need to bring Kona into this? Do I?

The term "bitter old husk" isn't nasty? So can be used wherever and whenever someone sees fit from here-on?

Any other terms that are ok to use freely?

RobFowl

Slideshowbob wrote: »

Any other terms that are ok to use freely?

I'm resigned to being a Fred so that's acceptable to me..

Lumen

Slideshowbob wrote: »

The term "bitter old husk" isn't nasty? So can be used wherever and whenever someone sees fit from here-on?

Sure. It's in the charter.

DirkVoodoo

I never knew there was an etiquette guide for boards.

Esroh

Slideshowbob wrote: »

The term "bitter old husk" isn't nasty? So can be used wherever and whenever someone sees fit from here-on?

Any other terms that are ok to use freely?

I object to the term 'Farmers Tan' when refering to legs as a 'Real Farmer'(rather than the modern day part-time worker of the land) would not be seen in shorts:D

Slideshowbob

anyway - i conclude cyclosportives are not races

ROK ON

Slideshowbob wrote: »

anyway - i conclude cyclosportives are not races

You may well be correct on that I agree, however, it is also possible to have unsanctioned races between two or more willing participants.

Sorry, I couldnt resist. I know that I am weak.

Diarmuid

You know there is an ignore button on boards.ie?

Robertd_07

This is by far the funniest thread I've ever read on Boards.

ROK ON

Robertd_07 wrote: »

This is by far the funniest thread I've ever read on Boards.

You should have read Epic Bickering. This is in the haypenny place compared to that thread.

Raam

What is a husk? From what I can see, it's the skin of a grape.

RobFowl

Raam wrote: »

What is a husk? From what I can see, it's the skin of a grape.

Ispaghula husk is used in a laxative !

niceonetom

The husk of the nutmeg is mace - it can be used as a chemical weapon. Not that bob could bring any of us to tears or anything, even if some of his posts are eyewateringly bad.

damo80

if 2 trees fall in the woods and noone is around to hear it, is it a race?:D

TinyExplosions

damo80 wrote: »

if 2 trees fall in the woods and noone is around to hear it, is it a race?:D

Only if the trees agree to it, wear helmets and don't headbutt each other -oh, and slideshowbob has to deem it's a race too

RobFowl

damo80 wrote: »

if 2 trees fall in the woods and noone is around to hear it, is it a race?:D

Only if there a webcam with a commisaire watching