Your opinions on how Capcom F***ed up Guy in SSF4

Mr. K

I like Guy. I may lose with him on a regular basis...but it's always fun.

Azza

Chun was not far off top tier in vanilla. Giving the nerfs others recieved and the buffs she got she's in the top few now.

Doctor Doom wrote:

I'm convinced that as the tier lists settle down Guile will be decidedly and happily mid tier.

Play the character you like playing as regardless of tier. Don't be put off just because a character is suppose to be top tier and people give you stick for it.

Doctor DooM

Azza wrote: »

Play the character you like playing as regardless of tier. Don't be put off just because a character is suppose to be top tier and people give you stick for it.

Did... did...


did you just encourage me to play Guile? :eek:

Placebo

Azza wrote: »

Chun was not far off top tier in vanilla. Giving the nerfs others recieved and the buffs she got she's in the top few now.

her ultra wiffed almost half the cast ?

Doctor DooM

Placebo wrote: »

her ultra wiffed almost half the cast ?

It also shut down every projectile character in the game and could punish f headbutt on reaction among others.

Compare it to say Vega, Guile, Honda, Bison among others. Guile's for example has no practical use.

Azza

Placebo wrote:

her ultra wiffed almost half the cast ?

The ultra isn't everything, I mean it still had its uses. Her mix up was and still is excellent, she can zone certain characters very well, her pokes are probably the second best in the game, (only Vega has better) she's pretty god like in the air. Her only remaining downside is she's not great on wake up (but alot of the non shoto cast is like that)

She had like what 4 bad match ups in SF IV.

Sagat was one but everyone had him as bad match up. Its no doubt alot more even in SSF IV.

Akuma and Rufus where also very strong in vanilla as they are now.

C.Viper, well she isn't top tier herself and has quite a few bad match ups herself.

Most of characters just outside the top tier had about 4 bad match ups if not 5. So they where all in a similar boat to Chun.

Sisko

I don't really think people think that way rope. I don't even think farz for example was expecting SF4 chun to be 3s chun.

J0hnick

New Tier list out

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/

Turns out I wasn't far off, 4th worst just above ... Dan ! :eek:

Doctor DooM

J0hnick wrote: »

New Tier list out

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/

Turns out I wasn't far off, 4th worst just above ... Dan ! :eek:

As always though, pinch of salt with a tier list.


For example, there's no way in hell Honda is better off than Bison in a fight with Guile. That's ludicrous. With meter Bison has tools to slow Guile down whereas Honda's got nothing.

BTW I did plenty fine with a character in your position for over a year, 7/3 matches are still winnable if you know your character (and even then I only see 3 for Guy).

J0hnick

I dont agree with Rose being a 7:3 disadvantage to Guy or Guile only being 6:4, other way round imo.

And way to go Capcom on making Gen, who was already Low tier, even worse!

K.O.Kiki

Gen was low-tier in SFIV until guys like Yeb showed us his power.

Similarly Adon is still dismissed by many players, yet came 3rd at Evo2k10.

J0hnick

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Gen was low-tier in SFIV until guys like Yeb showed us his power.

Yes, and for his rewards, Capcom took away the one combo that got Gen that far (S.MK -> EX Hands).

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Similarly Adon is still dismissed by many players, yet came 3rd at Evo2k10.

I thought he came 5th ? (not that that makes huge difference), well he's mid tier now and I don't think people will be taking him lightly anymore, especially Justin Wong :P

K.O.Kiki

My bad, he came 5th.

K.O.Kiki

But are tier list numbers as bad as when people complain about the score for a videogame?

"Oh, you scored this a 6.3, I totally disagree it's at least a 7.9, you suck".
LOL

The Hound

So you agree with the tier list? That Chun, Honda, Bison and Guile are top? That the standings in the list are accurate and that Guy is indeed 4th from bottom? i know you said rose isn't a 7-3 is rose favor but the rest of the list?

Cobelcog

It's the console characters all over again. People are too lazy to bother sticking with characters and showing what they can do. They look at the first tier lists then run away, not exploring the less-than-obvious strengths of these characters.

Doctor DooM

Cobelcog wrote: »

It's the console characters all over again. People are too lazy to bother sticking with characters and showing what they can do. They look at the first tier lists then run away, not exploring the less-than-obvious strengths of these characters.

Last time I went online I got approx 6 bisons 3 hondas 4 chuns and 5 Guiles.

Bloody tier lists.

Play a character that you like.

Sagat06

Have capcom been following you personally Cobelcog thats a ridiculous jump up the rankings for Cammy.

Cobelcog

Sagat06 wrote: »

Have capcom been following you personally Cobelcog thats a ridiculous jump up the rankings for Cammy.

Hmm. Yes. That was all me. No-one else. Just Irish Cammy showing what's what.

Placebo

Cobelcog wrote: »

Hmm. Yes. That was all me. No-one else. Just Irish Cammy showing what's what.

im clearly number 1
had to let u win at last inferno so cammy would go up atleast a small bit

J0hnick

Cobelcog wrote: »

It's the console characters all over again.

Your a Cammy user, nuff said :P.

Cobelcog wrote: »

People are too lazy to bother sticking with characters and showing what they can do. They look at the first tier lists then run away, not exploring the less-than-obvious strengths of these characters.

Yea, Im sure all those Gen users are glad they stuck with him :rolleyes:, now he really does play like he's dying from cancer.

Taken from the Gen boards on SRK

"Ono should give Gen a command throw. When activated, Gen sits in his wheelchair that has been sitting off-screen and then proceeds to continually roll over the opponent's head, all while complaining about the youth today and that annoying loud rap music his neighbors blast every morning."

Cobelcog

J0hnick wrote: »

Your a Cammy user, nuff said :P.

Indeed.

Take a look at the earlier tier lists when she was new and even in the final vanilla tier lists. Consistently very low. 5th worst in the game, they said. That's the same position that Guy is in at the moment. Now she can be seen as the 6th best. Because people pushed on and unleashed her potential. I bet if people like sakonoko weren't running around, she'd still be easily dismissed.

I don't know about Gen users but I'm sure as hell glad that I stuck with my low-tier character. To say I've seen success because of it would be an understatement!

Orim

Cobelcog wrote: »

I'm sure as hell glad that I stuck with my mashable DP. To say I've seen success because of it would be an understatement!

FYP

J0hnick

Cobelcog wrote: »

Indeed.

Take a look at the earlier tier lists when she was new and even in the final vanilla tier lists. Consistently very low. 5th worst in the game, they said. That's the same position that Guy is in at the moment.

Your half right, though your forgetting the roster is 40% bigger in Super, in vanilla Cammy had 20 characters who (on paper) were better then her ..... in Super Guy has 30.

I mained Bang in BlazBlue-CT and he went 4:6 against the entire cast and was considered the 3rd worst in the game, but he suited my play style so I stuck with him even when I was tempted to use Jin (who was 4th best). Id be happy if Guy was the same, but those Rog/Honda matchups just arent fun.

Azza

Doctor Doom wrote:

For example, there's no way in hell Honda is better off than Bison in a fight with Guile. That's ludicrous. With meter Bison has tools to slow Guile down whereas Honda's got nothing.

Oh yes way. With meter Bison still has didley squat against Guile.

Ex.Pyscho Crusher. Has to be almost point blank to catch Guile after a Boom. Is safe at full screen distance but a good Guile won't position himself at a full screen away and thus will mostly be able to punish it on block. Any other range and the move is totally unsafe on block.

Ex.Scissors has to be almost point blank to go through a Boom and hit Guile before he can block. Too far out Guile can block and punish. At mid distance Bison will hit Guile with the first hit of scissors kick but if Guile did a light Sonic Boom, Bisons invincible frames will run out and his back will hit the slow travelling Boom behind him before the second hit of scissor kick hits.

At the ranges for Ex. PC and SK to be effective Bison and Guile are well within poking range so you be best off using them.

Ex.Stomp does not cause block stun so after a Boom Guile can wake back and cause it to whiff and then punish its recovery. Or air throw it.

Ex. Devils Reverse is retarded easy to block and is at least -3 on block. Low moves cause it to whiff, easy to avoid and Guiles c.hp beats it clean.

Really EX moves do little for Bison in the Guile match up.

Guiles Kryptonite is cross ups and in both Bison and Honda's case they have excellent cross ups. But Honda has a better mix up in that he had a command grab and grab ultra. Honda does better damage across the board too. Bison can maintain better corner pressure (provided he gets Guile there in the first place) but Guile can lock him out just as well as Honda.

Dreddybajs

J0hnick wrote: »

Id be happy if Guy was the same, but those Rog/Honda matchups just arent fun.

They aren't much fun for most characters imo, including characters who have an advantage in the matchup

chueytoo

J0hnick wrote: »

Your half right, though your forgetting the roster is 40% bigger in Super, in vanilla Cammy had 20 characters who (on paper) were better then her ..... in Super Guy has 30.

I mained Bang in BlazBlue-CT and he went 4:6 against the entire cast and was considered the 3rd worst in the game, but he suited my play style so I stuck with him even when I was tempted to use Jin (who was 4th best). Id be happy if Guy was the same, but those Rog/Honda matchups just arent fun.

jin was more mid with ragna and noel. But lucky you who mains bang:pac: cause his now god tier in Blazblue cs. but then again i thought blazblue was quite balance even if people complain about nu.

People should just play who they like, and forget about tiers. Cause if you enjoy the character you play, your more likely going to get better with that char. then a char you hate whos top tier.

Scavenger XIII

Guy does a flying kick through some barrels and goes "HYAAAAAAH!".

Thus, I am happy with his inclusion.

Ken B

J0hnick wrote: »

Your a Cammy user, nuff said :P.



Yea, Im sure all those Gen users are glad they stuck with him :rolleyes:, now he really does play like he's dying from cancer.

Taken from the Gen boards on SRK

"Ono should give Gen a command throw. When activated, Gen sits in his wheelchair that has been sitting off-screen and then proceeds to continually roll over the opponent's head, all while complaining about the youth today and that annoying loud rap music his neighbors blast every morning."

This really annoyed me. Gen is either still either exceptionally powerful or I have zero match-up experience against him. He is still extremely useful against any of the characters that I choose to main...

He's posssibly not that great against fireball (shoto) characters.........but I wouldn't know anything about that.

Sagat06

Yeah Gen is a tough one to call, I havent played many good Gens at all, most just use his crazy jump arc and speed along with his juggle's. But once you have those figured out they seem to struggle.

But I've also played a few that completely destroyed me.