Soon to need a prescription for Nurofen/Solphadine/etc?

Kurtosis

gbee wrote: »

Forcing people to visit the GP? Stories making the papers also say that the local GP is suffering because patients taken off the medical card are not visiting them [as often].

Other stories say that patients are suffering pain and discomfort because they cannot afford the €40~€70 doctor's visitation fee.

Will that do for a start to support you theory?

Over the counter medicines are there in order to treat uncomplicated symptoms/conditions on a short-term basis. Anything other than that and people should be examined by a doctor who can recommend and supervise treatment. It may get to a stage in the future where more can be done by a pharmacist (wider range of products without a prescription, re-issuing repeat prescription medicines once certain criteria are filled) but for now, they can only supply over the counter medicines in accordance with their licensed use.

gbee

penguin88 wrote: »

Over the counter medicines are there in order to treat uncomplicated symptoms ...................

But, but what's this reply to do with the conspiracy theory raised by markiemark2005?

Tryst

penguin88 wrote: »

Are you saying plain paracetamol aggravates your stomach? If you're suffering from an ulcer, paracetamol is the most suitable pain reliever to use for headaches etc. The caffeine in the likes of Solpadeine would have the potential to irritate stomach ulcers.

I don't think anyone is making you suffer, no one is forcing you to keep having drinks until you get a "nasty hangover".

NSAID's should not be used to treat stomach ulcer pain, they cause bleeding of the gastorintestinal tract.

Kurtosis

gbee wrote: »

But, but what's this reply to do with the conspiracy theory raised by markiemark2005?

It's more to do with the conspiracy theory you seem to be raising. You suggested that these guidelines were forcing people to go to the GP. There is no change in legislation here, people have always had to, and still have to after these new guidelines, go to their GP if they need over the counter medicines outside of their licensed indications (i.e. short term use, uncomplicated symptoms). I feel as if I am repeating myself...

Kurtosis

Tryst wrote: »

NSAID's should not be used to treat stomach ulcer pain, they cause bleeding of the gastorintestinal tract.

Very true. That's why I said paracetamol is the most suitable drug to use for headaches etc. for someone who is suffering from an ulcer.

ebixa82

gbee wrote: »

But, but what's this reply to do with the conspiracy theory raised by markiemark2005?

No conspiracy. Regulations have been brought in to prevent people like your wife destroying their livers/stomachs etc through years of abuse of OTC medication. That is it in a nutshell!

wicklowstar

But surely there must be some other way?

I cant afford to visit a doctor and now I cant get nurofen!
Get them up north at christmas...
Great for period pain. Only thing that works... ever!

Wont the people abusing these drugs just find something else..

bleg

The GSK rep that visited us expected a fall off of at least 70% on sales of codeine containing products and that whilst some of this may be recouped, they don't expect to make it all back.

I would presume it would be the same for other companies.

bleg

wicklowstar wrote: »

But surely there must be some other way?

I cant afford to visit a doctor and now I cant get nurofen!

Pay attention, you can get Nurofen and Nurofen plus over the counter at any pharmacy in the country.

haveablast

markiemark2005 wrote: »

I have not had problems from solphadine any time I have used it. Yes, nobody forces me to get a hangover, somethings there can be hangovers from drinking a few drinks.

Solphaine works for me, I am not addicted to it as I would by a max of 2 packs a year.

If its so dangerous then make a prescription only drug.

As with everything in this country, I'd love to know if there is an alternative money making agenda at play on this one.

The opposite surely? Think of the money the pharmacies are losing, not to mention to companies who make these products...

Odysseus

gbee wrote: »

And the government, my words here about heroine are not mine,

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/overthecounter-addictions-soaring-doctor-warns-1372359.html

It was recommended that a programme be put in place, there is none. So what are we supposed to do? Five years later, no programme no, consultation and a situation where one's previous friendly pharmacy turns sour.

Very few people addicted to OTC codeine end up on methadone programmes. Personally I have only ever had 2 clients on methadone for OTC codeine, thats with over 13 years of work in the Addiction Services. However, I do treat 10-15 people a year for such addictions; my own view is that I disagree with the new system. When are we going to try help people with such problems, rather than making things more difficult. Once again personally, I would say within safe boundaries, give people what they need.

People tend to abuse drugs because there are other issues operating in the background. Supply people with the chemicals they need, and try to address the background problems. In some cases, it is better to leave the person with their drug, helping people become drug free is great; but it is not the best solution for everybody.

Fighting Irish

Glad i bought 750 tylenol in the US now

Gummy Panda

bleg wrote: »

Pay attention, you can get Nurofen and Nurofen plus over the counter at any pharmacy in the country.

Not in Boots. The pharmacist wouldn't give me Nurofen Plus for a migraine last week. He said they only offer Nurofen fast acting instead. He said that they have to restrict the use of codeine products and won't offer them to treat most pains.

He told me to take Nurofen fast acting and come back if the migraine persists. Tbh if i still had a migraine by the next day, I'd go to the doctor in case something is really wrong.

wicklowstar

bleg wrote: »

Pay attention, you can get Nurofen and Nurofen plus over the counter at any pharmacy in the country.

I didnt mean now!
Like when a prescription is needed!

ebixa82

Fighting Irish wrote: »

Glad i bought 750 tylenol in the US now

That's just Paracetamol. You can buy that in every petrol station and Spar shop in the country..

ebixa82

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Not in Boots. The pharmacist wouldn't give me Nurofen Plus for a migraine last week. He said they only offer Nurofen fast acting instead. He said that they have to restrict the use of codeine products and won't offer them to treat most pains.

He told me to take Nurofen fast acting and come back if the migraine persists. Tbh if i still had a migraine by the next day, I'd go to the doctor in case something is really wrong.

You can get Nurofen Plus in EVERY pharmacy in the country. The pharmacist chose not to give you Nurofen Plus, that does not mean that they don't sell it.

markiemark2005

haveablast wrote: »

The opposite surely? Think of the money the pharmacies are losing, not to mention to companies who make these products...

Depends on the profit margins on the other products.

Just how many codine addicts are there in Ireland?

ebixa82

markiemark2005 wrote: »

Depends on the profit margins on the other products.

Just how many codine addicts are there in Ireland?

86 people were admitted for treatment of codeine addiction in 2009.

However that says nothing of the actual number. Addicts can be sub-divided into:

1) Those who know they are addicted and chose not to get treatment, of which there are 100's, and..

2) Those who do not even realise they are addicted, of which there are 1000's..
(These are people who might take two every morning to start the day, or two at night to help them sleep etc.)

policeman

My mum's friend used to work for a pharmaceutical company in 60's/70's where they made pure codeine tablets. Apparenty there were jars of the stuff lying around the offices.None of the staff ever got headaches, and it was a very very relaxed, stress free environment

Now what about a bit of honesty with all this drug stuff -

YOU:"Hello, I'd like some codeine containing pills please"

PHARMACIST:"Is it for yourself? Can I ask why you are taking them?"

"Yeah, well I gobble about 4 or 5 at once, and after about 20 mins they give me a lovely numb, anxiety/worry free feeling.While everyone else is running around like total nutcases getting wound up about money, recession bollix and careers, and stress at the office and keeping up with the Jones's and a multitude of daily frivolous and ultimately inconsequential ****e, and trying to make me join the club... I.....feel nice and calm...

My anti-drepressants are crap and over priced, and anyway SSRI's effectiveness have often been questioned. Opiates are the way to go.
God didn't give us the poppy for nothing, you know.

..so, there you go..Now can I have 20 boxes of nurofen plus please? Isn't it a real pity they mix it with that bloody ibuprofen or paracetamol which poisons and destroys my insides..?

Actually come to think of it you don't have any type of filter papers do you?"

PHARMACIST: [stunned]

allthedoyles

Could someone tell me if codeine and difene are the same . - and does ibruprofen do the same job as difene ?

arybvtcw0eolkf

penguin88 wrote: »

I don't like to say this, and I'm not trying to accuse any posters of anything, but being willing to order such medicines online or to travel up North just to avoid having to have a conversation with a pharmacist and answer a few questions are kinda suggestive of drug-seeking behaviour, common in addiction.

Yup, I do the same with the off licence since our Nanny state decided that we're all too young & silly to buy a few can's after 10pm...

Ever see the que's in the off licences at 9:45pm?.. They're all addicts, yea?.. Why don't you take your councilling services there too.

policeman

allthedoyles wrote: »

Could someone tell me if codeine and difene are the same . - and does ibruprofen do the same job as difene ?

Nope. Codeine is an opiate/morphine based. Difene is NSAID like ibuprofen, aspirin

iPlop

I buy mine off the net now!!! and I love informing the pharmacist of this;)

policeman

Wow, now scientists are saying we need to take a close look at psychedelics with a view to maybe using them to treat depression, as in LSD, Ketamine, and Psilocybin [magic mushrooms]. Count me in .

[Mind/mood altering] Drugs are demonized when it doesn't suit society to have people going around taking them [people loaded with pharmaceuticals are not fully productive worker bees - reduced profits for employers] but of course then when a 'legal/pharmaceutical' use and dosage is accepted, it really can be a different story. There will always be issues with the, ahem, 'dosage'/how they're taken. And then of course the drug companies make billions in profits either way

policeman

Septic Leper wrote: »

I buy mine off the net now!!! and I love informing the pharmacist of this;)

Wait for nanny state to monitor internet transactions next

Kurtosis

Jax Pitiful Labyrinth wrote: »

Yup, I do the same with the off licence since our Nanny state decided that we're all too young & silly to buy a few can's after 10pm...

Ever see the que's in the off licences at 9:45pm?.. They're all addicts, yea?.. Why don't you take your councilling services there too.

Again the silly comparison with alcohol...you have a problem with off licence opening hours and having a discussion with a pharmacist before buying a medicine.

They're completely different, one is a recreational drug being sold by someone who has a licence to sell booze, the other is a therapeutic drug indicated to treat specified conditions being sold by a healthcare professional. There's a reason why counselling is justified in one case and not the other.

Do you have a problem with the "nanny state" forcing you to go to a doctor just to be able to buy any of the many medicines that are on prescription?

policeman

In this ongoing debate there are 2 types of people in the world:

1. Sensible, law abiding, those who follow the rules, those who have a black-white approach to right and wrong

2. Wreckless, rule hating, drug crazy "nut jobs":), who give in to their human addiction tendancies, and have a penchant for mind altering chemicals, wherever they may find them.

The sensible ones look down on the wreckless, as weak and pathetic, and abhor their lifestyle.

The wreckless see the sensible as pious, anal, dull killjoys

So you see we'll just go round in circles on this one.

Famous people who have used opium/opiates:

Charles Dickens
Arthur Conan Doyle
Pablo Picasso
Sir Walter Scott
King George V
Oscar Wilde

And other substances, just for good measure:

Bill gates - LSD
Steve Jobs -LSD, Cannabis
Aldous Huxley - LSD, Mescaline
Jack Nicholson - LSD
Helen Mirren - LSD
Queen Victoria- Opium, cannabis, chloroform, coca wine
Salvador Dali - Hashish

sesna

Septic Leper wrote: »

I buy mine off the net now!!! and I love informing the pharmacist of this;)

I doubt he/she gives a $hit, really.

arybvtcw0eolkf

sesna wrote: »

I doubt he/she gives a $hit, really.

I'd say your wrong.

I'd say they go ape sh*t.

They're in the game to make money, and now the government is restricting their abilities to rip us off.. Yup, ape sh*t.

sesna

Jax Pitiful Labyrinth wrote: »

I'd say your wrong.

I'd say they go ape sh*t.

They're in the game to make money, and now the government is restricting their abilities to rip us off.. Yup, ape sh*t.

I really doubt they care if someone is buying online illegally. It's not widespread so I doubt they give a $hit.

Aside from that you're wrong on many counts. The government has not restricted their ability to make money. They can sell still sell codeine. Also the government is not the pharmacy regulator. And the law hasn't changed so nothing has been restricted.

How were you ripped off? Did you receive counterfeit medication or something ?

iPlop

sesna wrote: »

I really doubt they care if someone is buying online illegally. It's not widespread so I doubt they give a $hit.

Aside from that you're wrong on many counts. The government has not restricted their ability to make money. They can sell still sell codeine. It's not been made illegal. Also the government is not the pharmacy regulator. And the law hasn't changed.

How were you ripped off? Did you receive counterfeit medication or something ?

They seem to telling the pharmacies what to do these days:)Acting like regulators me thinks!!!;)

bleg

Septic Leper wrote: »

They seem to telling the pharmacies what to do these days:)Acting like regulators me thinks!!!;)

Wat?

sesna

Septic Leper wrote: »

They seem to telling the pharmacies what to do these days:)Acting like regulators me thinks!!!;)

You seem to be mixing up Matthew Elderfield with the pharmacy regulator.

Spoonuala

This is what happens when people abuse drugs. Nurofen and Solpadeine are sometimes necessary, i suffer from Migraines and the only thing that enables me to function is Nurofen plus, I only take it when I need to, some people take it for a slight niggle. It really grinds my gears. My tip is to stock up when you go to the continent, no need for prescription and you can buy a box of 48 for 2 euro, the generic brand, here the drugs companies are cleaning up... cos they know people are addicted... so the main problem here is addiction be it to alcohol, painkillers, food, ... don't know why people who use drugs correctly should be penalised!

iPlop

sesna wrote: »

You seem to be mixing up Matthew Elderfield with the pharmacy regulator.

Who made the decision not to sell if the pharmacist didn't think you needed them?

sesna

Spoonuala wrote: »

This is what happens when people abuse drugs. Nurofen and Solpadeine are sometimes necessary, i suffer from Migraines and the only thing that enables me to function is Nurofen plus, I only take it when I need to, some people take it for a slight niggle. It really grinds my gears. My tip is to stock up when you go to the continent, no need for prescription and you can buy a box of 48 for 2 euro, the generic brand, here the drugs companies are cleaning up... cos they know people are addicted... so the main problem here is addiction be it to alcohol, painkillers, food, ... don't know why people who use drugs correctly should be penalised!

I ate three times already today, do I have an addiction to food ?

Spoonuala

Just because you have eaten three times a day doesn't make u addicted. You need food to live, however certain types of food are addictive ie those laden with fat and sugar and various other chemicals that are added. So these are like drugs to some people and they become addicted to eating them, Just like some people pop nurofen like they are smarties. They get the high for taking them into their body. so overeating crap is exactly the same as taking too many painkillers both stem from addiction.

gbee

Spoonuala wrote: »

They get the high for taking them into their body.

Not necessarily true. The subject drugs in this thread don't give 'highs'

What happens is this, a bad pain, Solf or Nuro+ is recommended and the patient gets relief of their pain.

Body decides it wants MORE so it recreates the pain so the patient takes more Solf or Nurf.

The pain is real.

policeman

gbee wrote: »

Not necessarily true. The subject drugs in this thread don't give 'highs'

Actually 4 x nurofen plus at once give you 4 x 12.8 mgs of codeine which is sufficient to cause a noticeable effect. Go higher than that and the effect can be even stronger

Herbal Deity

gbee wrote: »

Not necessarily true. The subject drugs in this thread don't give 'highs'

Lolwut?

Codeine most certainly causes highs. It metabolizes to morphine, which is very closely related to heroin. Plenty of people take codeine recreationally.

At recommended dosages (max about 26mg), the effects are less noticeable, but on an empty stomach, you can feel them.

But, as mentioned above, I reckon that anyone addicted to taking Nurofen would be taking slightly more than the recommended dose. ~60mg of codeine would give a noticeable high and be close to a light recreational dose.

Kurtosis

policeman wrote: »

Actually come to think of it you don't have any type of filter papers do you?"

It would probably be a good idea not to advertise or shout about extracting codeine from these products. Codeine in the likes of Solpadeine is considered as a schedule 5 controlled drug as a result of it being a low dose and combined with other ingredients, and hence it's subjected to few controls (available OTC). By extracting it and getting codeine in a pure, bulk form (i.e. not as part of a product), it is now a schedule 2 controlled drug (the same schedule as morphine, heroin and cocaine). If you do not hold a valid prescription for such CD2 drugs, you can be charged with possession.

But of course if you have a genuine need for codeine as a single treatment, I'm sure a doctor would have no problem prescribing it.

Calibos

I want something that works, not something that merely lessens the pain or something that gets rid of the pain but an hour or two later than Nurofen+. For me with Nurofen+ I know that within about 30 minutes when its metabolised the pain will be gone full stop.

I need to by a pack of 24 every 2 or 3 weeks because there are seven adults in the house but one with a car who does the weeks shopping for everyone. None of us take more than 1 or 2 doses in a given day and mostly it'll be a week or two between headaches/pains/single dose. However with seven of us that means a pack of 24 lasts about 2 or 3 weeks. I am being punished for other peoples stupidity. I am looked at like an addict. The very same people accepted my 7 people explanation before the new rules but now won't, despite me pushing in a trolley with 400 euros worth of food stacked high in it every week. ie. I am not eating all this myself every week so please trust me when I say I am not eating that much Nurofen either!! Maybe I'll have to talk to the staff because its getting ridiculous listening to the same spiel every time I go in and only being sold 12 if I am lucky.

However even the fulls days max dose no more than 3 days in a row is a load of crap. I had a wisdom tooth extraction that got dry socket and then an infection. I was taking full days Nurofen+ and a full days Solphedine offset by 2 hours from each other for a full week, followed by another 3 or 4 days of just full days max dose of Nurofen+. ON the tenth day I stopped and a sicky but managable headache came on (as opposed to a blinding headache). That'll be the codeine withdrawl headache I said to myself. Took regular Panadol before bed that night. That was it. Was right as rain with no desire for more N+ or Solpedine thereafter.

markiemark2005

Went up to Newry and got myself 36 solphaine for 6 quid.


Mark 1 Nanny State 0.

Manic Preacher

Is there stats anywhere in terms of male/female use? Seems to me that most users are women.

sesna

Calibos wrote: »

I want something that works, not something that merely lessens the pain or something that gets rid of the pain but an hour or two later than Nurofen+. For me with Nurofen+ I know that within about 30 minutes when its metabolised the pain will be gone full stop.

I need to by a pack of 24 every 2 or 3 weeks because there are seven adults in the house but one with a car who does the weeks shopping for everyone. None of us take more than 1 or 2 doses in a given day and mostly it'll be a week or two between headaches/pains/single dose. However with seven of us that means a pack of 24 lasts about 2 or 3 weeks. I am being punished for other peoples stupidity. I am looked at like an addict. The very same people accepted my 7 people explanation before the new rules but now won't, despite me pushing in a trolley with 400 euros worth of food stacked high in it every week. ie. I am not eating all this myself every week so please trust me when I say I am not eating that much Nurofen either!! Maybe I'll have to talk to the staff because its getting ridiculous listening to the same spiel every time I go in and only being sold 12 if I am lucky.

However even the fulls days max dose no more than 3 days in a row is a load of crap. I had a wisdom tooth extraction that got dry socket and then an infection. I was taking full days Nurofen+ and a full days Solphedine offset by 2 hours from each other for a full week, followed by another 3 or 4 days of just full days max dose of Nurofen+. ON the tenth day I stopped and a sicky but managable headache came on (as opposed to a blinding headache). That'll be the codeine withdrawl headache I said to myself. Took regular Panadol before bed that night. That was it. Was right as rain with no desire for more N+ or Solpedine thereafter.

Do you live in a hippy commune or something? And all seven of you have this need for Nurofen Plus. Maybe you should try Lemsip instead if its just for headache. It's highly unlikely that all of you need a codeine product.

Also despite what you suggest, I dont think the decision on whether or not to supply you codeine should not be based on what you have in the trolley you are pushing around.

I suppose the manufacturers and the Irish Medicines Board got it all wrong on addiction potential because you "were right as rain" but not before your "manageable but not blinding headache" codeine withdrawal headache.

Tucking Fypo

I think this is long over-due. Solpadeine (and others containing codeine) should never have been over the counter, as it is addictive for many many people.

I am close to someone who got addicted to it after using it for genuine pain. They now get rebound pain from not taking Solpadeine which has resulted in a box a day habit.

They are on program since the beginning of the month under supervision of a GP to wean themselves off. It is going well. In between the time of 1st August and waiting to get on this program, I knew they needed the Solpadeine and as they were so known for buying it, I bought it for them in various different chemists. The difference in each chemists 'questions' were startling!

kowloon

I was using Solpadeine to help with Neuropathy up until I ran out over the weekend and found out today I couldn't get more. It's hard to find something that works at all but the Solpadeine seemed to help a little. I wish I'd paid more attention, I thought it was just going behind the counter.

sesna

kowloon wrote: »

I was using Solpadeine to help with Neuropathy up until I ran out over the weekend and found out today I couldn't get more. It's hard to find something that works at all but the Solpadeine seemed to help a little. I wish I'd paid more attention, I thought it was just going behind the counter.

Get it on prescription. You can only use it for 3 days continuously anyway without a prescription.

kowloon

sesna wrote: »

Get it on prescription. You can only use it for 3 days continuously anyway without a prescription.

That's the plan, but too late for today.

Kurtosis

kowloon wrote: »

That's the plan, but too late for today.

If you go into a pharmacy (if there is one that opens late nearby that you can get to this evening) and explain honestly what your situation is, I would imagine they should give you some to last you until you can get to your doctor.