Why aren't GAA players allowed to play for the national soccer team?

JimsAlterEgo

judging the OP username he hasn't stopped

Seaneh

I've played soccer against and all star forward and several minors all ireland winners, one of which is one of the highest scorers of all time in the westmeath club championship. These lads are "top tier" bogballers and to be honest even though they were fit, they were fairly average soccer players.

My brother, who was an average footballer, kept Dessie Dolan on the bench for their underage team from the age of 15 - 21.

Bogball and football are very different sports.

thegen

Never played Rugby, but have played both GAA and Soccer.
To the posters referring to GAA as Bogball, please grow up. I suppose the GAA supporters could start referring to Soccer as Knackerball and we could have a free for all.

Both sports have their place and i for one will continue to appreciate both for what they have to offer.

SlickRic

I'm going to keep this open as;

1) it could still be a bit of fun, there's room for a bit of banter; and

2) there are actually issues to be discussed in terms of fitness and skill between the two sports.

if the discussion comes to an end, or random pot-shotting, or general muppetry starts happening i'll close it though.

Thanks.

thegen

Slick, I take your point on fitness levels. My tuppence worth.

Are we discussing the fitness levels of LOI players V Inter County or say LSL or MSL players V Senior Club footballers.

I would say there is little between them bar GAA players would be physically stronger as they have to be able to take bigger hits. Soccer has evolved into a near non contact sport in comparison to 20 years ago.

LOI is a professional sport while GAA is still amateur so not sure if there is a fair comparison.

parker kent

The Rooster wrote: »

Shane Supple the former Ipswich Town goalkeeper who gave up soccer last year is now playing with gaelic football with St Brigids. He didnt make the Dublin panel this year, but many expect him to come into it next year. However, he's unlikely to replace Stephen Cluxton as first choice keeper.

He is a good example of what can happen GAA players that play soccer. He obviously went the hole hog and played for a Championship team, but there are others like who would have been good enough to make it in England, only that they did not like being over there.

His story is extremely rare since he became a professional, but there are many who come back to Ireland disillusioned with soccer around 17 or 18. Many lads are not ready to move away from their families as teenagers and don't make the grade because of that. That they end up playing hurling or football (like Lyng at Wexford) does not mean that they were not good enough, just that they did not like playing soccer enough. Supple is becoming a guard now and is probably happier doing that and playing for St Brigids than he was at Ipswich.

Some positions in GAA are more suited to the skill-set of rugby, but the likes of a nippy corner forward or wing-back are suited to soccer. There are definitely GAA players that would have made it as soccer players. Obviously not all of them, in reality a minority, but we have a small enough selection of players as it is. Improving the pick by bringing in people from GAA oriented counties could only improve the soccer team. If soccer had the depth of players and clubs that the GAA have, our soccer team could only be better. More people to pick from means more players, it is a simple enough equation.

#15

thegen wrote: »

I would say there is little between them bar GAA players would be physically stronger as they have to be able to take bigger hits. Soccer has evolved into a near non contact sport in comparison to 20 years ago.

I am not sure about the claim that GAA players are physically stronger.

There is more contact allowed, but that does not necessarily mean that the players are stronger.

From what I have seen, soccer players seem to have better physiques than GAA players - more lean muscle, less fat.

Just because soccer players act like fannies and wimps, doesn't mean they are actually physically weak. They just act weak to win free-kicks, penalties, etc.

The physical aspect of GAA is overrated IMO.

Ush1

Junior Agogo would rape many a GAA player.

thegen

Ush1 wrote: »

Junior Agogo would rape many a GAA player.

I suppose if thats what your into?????

I did ask for a realistic comparison. eg LOI, LSL or MSL players V GAA intercounty.

Xavi6

parker kent wrote: »

He is a good example of what can happen GAA players that play soccer.

I'm open to correction but Supple is a soccer player playing GAA, not the other way around.

Seaneh

Ush1 wrote: »

Junior Agogo would rape many a GAA player.

Ade says Junior who?

parker kent

#15 wrote: »

I am not sure about the claim that GAA players are physically stronger.

There is more contact allowed, but that does not necessarily mean that the players are stronger.

From what I have seen, soccer players seem to have better physiques than GAA players - more lean muscle, less fat.

Just because soccer players act like fannies and wimps, doesn't mean they are actually physically weak. They just act weak to win free-kicks, penalties, etc.

The physical aspect of GAA is overrated IMO.

If the GAA players had been trained like professional athletes from the age of 15, they would have those physiques too. For amateurs, they have amazing fitness levels but living the life of a professional sportsman would make a massive difference. I think many of the GAA players are naturally stronger as many are simply bigger men. GAA players would probably increase the amount of centre backs and central midfielders in Ireland.

parker kent

Xavi6 wrote: »

I'm open to correction but Supple is a soccer player playing GAA, not the other way around.

As I said, he is an extreme example but many of the current GAA players have gone to England, don't like it and come home. As a teenager, they play both sports and given the riches in soccer, they try and make it but don't like the lifestyle. They are not publicised in the way Supple was, so I used him as an example non-GAA fans would know about. Ciaran Lyng, the Wexford footballer as I mentioned in my post, is another example of a GAA player who was a good underage soccer player who moved back home.

Edit: I had written Ciaran Lyng was a hurler by mistake

Ush1

Seaneh wrote: »

Ade says Junior who?

Wanna see them in a 50-50 challenge.:pac:

micks

Le King wrote: »

Mullane would destroy him

And Van Bommel would prob destroy him on a football field ridiculous comparison

micks

An elite athlete is an elite athlete they just choose to concentrate on one sport and hopefully excell at it.
If you dont get kids at a young age a develope them correctly for a given sport then its an uphill battle to get the majority to adjust(i know there will always be exceptions and late developers)
These kids will be coached/managed/trained a certain wa for the given sport.
Its not as simple as taking someone out of the LOI or GAA and swapping them comparing fitness etc
I've seen a dublin inter county player get sent off after he got frustrated at being tackled fairly but hard several times by a player in a football game and swung a dig eventually. I've no doubt the same would happen if he was in his comfort zone marking the same player.
I know of several examples of players returning from england in their late teens/early twenties to take up GAA and make it at intercounty or senior club. I dont know of any GAA players that have played GAA till their late teens/early twenties to take up football and make it LOI. I'm sure there are examples and I dont mean players that played both.


This battle for elite athletes is very prominant in Dublin where there is competition for these kids with Football/Rugby/Gaa and IMO was the real reason behind a court case etc over a stadium in tallaght.

As a by the way the LOI is hardly a professional league I'd guess there's about 10% of clubs with professional players if that.
In fact i'd say there's more money paid in expenses in the GAA and how many inter county players get jobs with sponsors and looked after with time off ?

To answer the thread question:
They are allowed but there is none proven to be better than the current Irish Squad

major bill

micks wrote: »

And Van Bommel would prob destroy him on a football field ridiculous comparison

think he meant toughness not skill

Pauleta

parker kent wrote: »

As I said, he is an extreme example but many of the current GAA players have gone to England, don't like it and come home. As a teenager, they play both sports and given the riches in soccer, they try and make it but don't like the lifestyle. They are not publicised in the way Supple was, so I used him as an example non-GAA fans would know about. Ciaran Lyng, the Wexford footballer as I mentioned in my post, is another example of a GAA player who was a good underage soccer player who moved back home.

Edit: I had written Ciaran Lyng was a hurler by mistake

You should of said "many of the current GAA players have gone to england Dont make it and come home".

Het-Field

artanevilla wrote: »

Amatuers V Professionals? The difference in fitness levels would be immense.

Some of GAAs finest are the fittest of fit individuals. From the few intercounty footballers I know, I am aware of the average training regime. Most take a run in morning, head to their day job, and then train or hit the gym. For an amatuer sport, it is one of the most committed in the world, and it is done for the love of the game. If some GAA heads were given a leg up in soccer, they would shread plenty of players in the EPL. The same applies to the plethora of GAA center mids, who could, with the proper training, make muck of a variety of international rugby players.

Equally, you dont find the likes of Stephen Appiah, and Lucas Neill who were more then happy to sit on their hands, and wait until they get a £70,000 per week offer for their serivce before they played.

While i agree the amateur thing gets in the way, I believe that GAA heads are far more committed to their game then soccer players (remember Ashley Cole's rant about what he was "worth" in 2006.), and would wipe the floor with many of the EPL's poncy primadonnas if given the chance.

veXual

Het-Field wrote: »

would wipe the floor with many of the EPL's poncy primadonnas if given the chance.

What do you mean by this?? I mean in what sense would they wipe the floor with them? Just interested to know.

Het-Field

veXual wrote: »

What do you mean by this?? I mean in what sense would they wipe the floor with them? Just interested to know.

I think some players in the GAA have better ball control (in a raw sense), and have developed greater spacial awareness then many soccer players. This would be evidenced by their ability to kick points with two or three lads bearing down on them. This is without any specialist training, and with amateur managers/trainers.

Naturally, it is hard to judge. However, while the likes of Gooch Cooper, Paul Galvin etc are at the front of a classroom, or behind the panelled windows of a bank, the likes of Fernando Torres, Christiano Ronaldo are on the training pitches, in thei oxegen tanks, attending the best physios, and obtaining instructions from highly paid, and vastly experienced coaches. Given the great display of skills that GAA players can demonstrate, it is very plausable that if they were given the same training, some of the players in the EPL wouldnt be able to deal with them.

Forgive me, but I feel that GAA heads put on a better show, do it for less money, and often display flashes of brilliance, which they perfect while juggling a day job.

micks

major bill wrote: »

think he meant toughness not skill

I know what he meant, I've seen loads of "tough" gaa players not know what hits them when they're on the end of a crunching tackle that they're not used to. Same goes the other way round I'm sure

3hn2givr7mx1sc

micks wrote: »

I know what he meant, I've seen loads of "tough" gaa players not know what hits them when they're on the end of a crunching tackle that they're not used to.

That's when they're caught off balance.
I was at a Junior C football match the other night and my friend(16) was playing in goals and he wouldn't be the strongest, and the full forward was an animal of a man, bulling through the backs all through the game. Just at the end of the game there was a high ball coming in, my friend and the full-forward went up for it, friend hit him an auld shot when he was off balance and floored him, nothing to do with strength.

veXual

Het-Field wrote: »

I think some players in the GAA have better ball control (in a raw sense), and have developed greater spacial awareness then many soccer players. This would be evidenced by their ability to kick points with two or three lads bearing down on them. This is without any specialist training, and with amateur managers/trainers.

Actually a pretty good observation I hadn't thought of previously.

/Tips hat

larchielads

i've seen john mullane play "soccer":D he played left wing for a local side in waterford that man has some serious pace very good player. i played wit eoin kelly at under age level the man scored goals for fun. i remember one game we beat a side 14 nil, eoin got 7. got on the scoresheet myself that day:D

Johnny Utah

Because Umbro don't make jerseys in triple extra-large!

Pro. F

Het-Field wrote: »

I think some players in the GAA have better ball control (in a raw sense), and have developed greater spacial awareness then many soccer players. This would be evidenced by their ability to kick points with two or three lads bearing down on them. This is without any specialist training, and with amateur managers/trainers.

Naturally, it is hard to judge. However, while the likes of Gooch Cooper, Paul Galvin etc are at the front of a classroom, or behind the panelled windows of a bank, the likes of Fernando Torres, Christiano Ronaldo are on the training pitches, in thei oxegen tanks, attending the best physios, and obtaining instructions from highly paid, and vastly experienced coaches. Given the great display of skills that GAA players can demonstrate, it is very plausable that if they were given the same training, some of the players in the EPL wouldnt be able to deal with them.

Forgive me, but I feel that GAA heads put on a better show, do it for less money, and often display flashes of brilliance, which they perfect while juggling a day job.

I thought this thread would be mainly about the fitness levels, I'm amazed that anybody could actually believe this type of crazy talk. GAA players ''have better ball control''?! Are you mental? Soccer is a skill game. Players get their skills by practicing for thousands of hours from a young age. What sets Ronaldo and Torres and all the pros apart is the skills they have, not their fitness levels or their physio work or the coaches they have. All that stuff can be gained by any athlete - if they don't have the actual skills of a good soccer player then they won't be good soccer players. It's that simple.

Ush1 wrote: »

As regards fitness levels, there was a study done with LOI players and GAA players and the LOI lads were basically much fitter, I'll try dig out the article.

EDIT:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/gaa-trails-soccer-in-fitness-stakes-248003.html

I'd be very suspicious of that study. First of all, the fat levels would be effected by what part of the season the players are in so that could have a big impact. More importantly, why did they only measure body fat? That's such a weird way of doing a study of fitness.

Ush1

Pro. F wrote: »

I'd be very suspicious of that study. First of all, the fat levels would be effected by what part of the season the players are in so that could have a big impact. More importantly, why did they only measure body fat? That's such a weird way of doing a study of fitness.

There was another study I remember reading with greater detail. May have been in a book somwhere but it was basically saying the same thing.

It's not that strange, it's done for many sports also, for instance most boxers would be considered fitter again with even lower levels of bodyfat.

Boskowski

This is the perfect example of the if my aunt had balls debate.
Totally pointless.

GAA players who make pretty good soccer players have played soccer a lot, they just have decided that GAA is what they gonna focus on. It's ridiculous to suggest that someone alien to soccer - even if that someone can play hurling really well and is pretty fit and he may have spatial awareness and an eye for a ball game - won't have his arse handed over to him at LOI. It's a different game. It's a ridiculous debate.

After a few months that someone may look quite useful on a Sunday afternoon with the lads in the park, but to suggest that said someone can excel at the top level in soccer just so is nuts.

Pro. F

Ush1 wrote: »

There was another study I remember reading with greater detail. May have been in a book somwhere but it was basically saying the same thing.

It's not that strange, it's done for many sports also, for instance most boxers would be considered fitter again with even lower levels of bodyfat.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that professional footballers are fitter than the amateurs.

But I still don't see how body fat is meant to indicate whether an athlete is fit or not.
Yeah, sure boxers would be way lower on body fat (the soccer players on 12% aren't actually low at all really) but boxers have to make certain a weight for a fight so they don't really have a choice. If you just measure body fat as an indicator then some anorexic dude is going to be the fittest in the world. Surely it would be more informative to give them all cardiovascular endurance and strength tests.

Edit: btw I'm not saying that boxers aren't fitter. They are. The different forms of boxing and wrestling are the most demanding sports easily.

parker kent

Pauleta wrote: »

You should of said "many of the current GAA players have gone to england Dont make it and come home".

Sigh. There are a huge amount of Irish kids who have gone to England and not liked being away from home at that age. Kevin Doyle cites staying at home as one of the best moves (or non-move as it were!) he made. Among the many homesick Irish teens in England, some are GAA players. Some don't make it for many, many reasons, one of which is not liking the lifestyle. Read Shane Supple's account of why he left Ipswich. He could have made it in England. There will be GAA players like him.

Regardless, it is pointless to say that an expanded pool to choose from would not improve the Irish team.

parker kent

Boskowski wrote: »

This is the perfect example of the if my aunt had balls debate.
Totally pointless.

GAA players who make pretty good soccer players have played soccer a lot, they just have decided that GAA is what they gonna focus on. It's ridiculous to suggest that someone alien to soccer - even if that someone can play hurling really well and is pretty fit and he may have spatial awareness and an eye for a ball game - won't have his arse handed over to him at LOI. It's a different game. It's a ridiculous debate.

After a few months that someone may look quite useful on a Sunday afternoon with the lads in the park, but to suggest that said someone can excel at the top level in soccer just so is nuts.

What you say is right. You cannot just switch sports. But my point is that if the GAA were not around, there would be a deeper talent pool. GAA oriented counties would give greater players to soccer and rugby than they currently do. I am not saying we would become Brazil, just that a few more top players would emerge.

Pauleta

parker kent wrote: »

Sigh. There are a huge amount of Irish kids who have gone to England and not liked being away from home at that age. Kevin Doyle cites staying at home as one of the best moves (or non-move as it were!) he made. Among the many homesick Irish teens in England, some are GAA players. Some don't make it for many, many reasons, one of which is not liking the lifestyle. Read Shane Supple's account of why he left Ipswich. He could have made it in England. There will be GAA players like him.

Regardless, it is pointless to say that an expanded pool to choose from would not improve the Irish team.

Some have come back to Ireland due to homesickness etc but the vast majority have come back because they were not good enough. And yes a higher player pool would improve would improve the Irish team but i feel it would benefit the Rugby team more.

Boskowski

parker kent wrote: »

What you say is right. You cannot just switch sports. But my point is that if the GAA were not around, there would be a deeper talent pool. GAA oriented counties would give greater players to soccer and rugby than they currently do. I am not saying we would become Brazil, just that a few more top players would emerge.

Oh I agree totally with that. And we would probably have a league here that would have a bigger following and is not regarded by most as a mere feeder to the EPL.

WesternZulu

Boskowski wrote: »

Oh I agree totally with that. And we would probably have a league here that would have a bigger following and is not regarded by most as a mere feeder to the EPL.

I don't agree with that.

Irish people always will support more glamorous/successful english teams, therefore a strong Irish league (ie being competitive in Europe) will not happen.

Now, i don't believe this is right but its just the way things are.

It has nothing to do with players playing different sports.

fryup

Johnny Utah wrote: »

Because Umbro don't make jerseys in triple extra-large!

up ya boy ya!! love that pic,

one too many spice burgers me thinks

Blazer

oh yeha..forgot it was Joe...ah trying to forget he ever managed us at all

parker kent

WesternZulu wrote: »

I don't agree with that.

Irish people always will support more glamorous/successful english teams, therefore a strong Irish league (ie being competitive in Europe) will not happen.

Now, i don't believe this is right but its just the way things are.

It has nothing to do with players playing different sports.

I think it might have been different if you could go back and set up soccer in the way the GAA was...i.e just replace everything the GAA has with soccer. Then it might be on a par with Scotland. The English league would still get attention, but maybe a little less than it does now. The LoI suffers from having too many Dublin teams and other parts of the country often have no affiliation with the LoI teams.

Obviously that is not going to change now and it is all a game of ifs and buts.