Stage 15 - Monday, July 19 2010, Pamiers - Bagnères-de-Luchon, 187 km

ednwireland

c montgomery wrote: »

I wouldnt be surprised if someone pushed contador off the bike tomorrow. The fans get so close it could easly be made to look like an accident.

Was contadore getting booed as he collected the yellow jersey today??

i seriousley hope not - all this fuss over a mechanical schleck cocked up his gear change we've all done it, i thought the booing was disgracefull, as for schleck, Sh*t happens deal with it

after the booing i definitely want contador to win

xz

If Ullrich, who absolutely detested LA could wait for him the time he came off his bike on the climb. I'm sure a supposed nice guy like Contador could have done the same. Maybe the thought of le Tour hattrick got the better of him. IMO. The unwritten rules of gentlemanly conduct should be adhered to. Schleck to bounce back over the next 2 days. He has to, with the TT Coming up. The only good that can come from today is better viewing and GAME ON. For us.

Chips Lovell

Ullrich and Armstrong were very friendly by all accounts.

thereturn

xz wrote: »

If Ullrich, who absolutely detested LA could wait for him the time he came off his bike on the climb. I'm sure a supposed nice guy like Contador could have done the same. Maybe the thought of le Tour hattrick got the better of him. IMO. The unwritten rules of gentlemanly conduct should be adhered to. Schleck to bounce back over the next 2 days. He has to, with the TT Coming up. The only good that can come from today is better viewing and GAME ON. For us.

Why do you say Ullrich detested Armstrong?

ThisRegard

Hermy wrote: »

On a related subject, does anyone know why Laurant Fignon was brought up to the podium after the days other presentations had been made?

Maybe something to do with his illness ?

ednwireland

xz wrote: »

If Ullrich, who absolutely detested LA could wait for him the time he came off his bike on the climb. I'm sure a supposed nice guy like Contador could have done the same. Maybe the thought of le Tour hattrick got the better of him. IMO. The unwritten rules of gentlemanly conduct should be adhered to. Schleck to bounce back over the next 2 days. He has to, with the TT Coming up. The only good that can come from today is better viewing and GAME ON. For us.

el tonto wrote: »

Ullrich and Armstrong were very friendly by all accounts.

and i beleive it was payback after ullrich went off on a descent the previous year
http://www.versus.com/cycling/videos/lance-waits-for-ullrich/

but that was before the final climb !

different situation really

xz

el tonto wrote: »

Ullrich and Armstrong were very friendly by all accounts.

Fair point. I can't argue with all accounts. But even so, with his greatest rival. . . . . . . . He did the gentlemanly thing which probably cost him the Tour, we will never know :-)

IM0

xz wrote: »

Fair point. But even so, with his greatest rival. . . . . . . . He did the gentlemanly thing which probably cost him the Tour, we will never know :-)

tbf Ullrich was ridng a solid tempo untill Hamilton was the one to go waving his hands in the unversally known 'go slower' signal that day, and even then Ullrich was knocking out at pretty high tempo, tbf its hard to tell when ullrich is attacking or just setting a tempo! :pac:

Hermy

@xz Yeah, but there's a difference between crashing and a minor mechnical issue surely.

@ucd I remember sHamilton's redundant arm waving - very unnecessary as Ullrich had alrerady slowed down.

iregk

Personally I have two views on this. If a fan takes you off the bike as happen with LA then I would wait as thats just not right/fair. If it was however a problem with the bike or his own stupidity I'd say feck it and put the hammer down.

What AC did was 100% the correct decision in my opinion. As for Schleck, your chain had problems. Get over it.

IM0

xz wrote: »

The only good that can come from today is better viewing and GAME ON. For us.

I know! the real question is why is everyone complaining then :rolleyes:

ThisRegard

Typical, I'm back to long days in the office when the tour heats up ! Was watching the highlights and first thing I said to my wife was that he made a mess of changing his gears.

Going to be reduced to watching highlights until the end of the tour from now on

davyjose

xz wrote: »

Fair point. I can't argue with all accounts. But even so, with his greatest rival. . . . . . . . He did the gentlemanly thing which probably cost him the Tour, we will never know :-)

Crashing in the TT cost him the tour. He really, really deserved it that year.

xz

me@ucd wrote: »

I know! the real question is why is everyone complaining then :rolleyes:

Finally someone who left their knife at home. Thanks

IM0

Hermy wrote: »

@ucd I remember sHamilton's redundant arm waving - very unnecessary as Ullrich had alrerady slowed down.

I dont disagree, here it is for anyone interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27SFeKk2LpY

ednwireland

andy schleck tweet

I lost yellow today!**** happens but the race is not over yet!!!I be back!

Hermy

me@ucd wrote: »

I dont disagree, here it is for anyone interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27SFeKk2LpY

Cheers. I went looking for it after I posted, doubting myself as I searched in vain.:o

beans

video of the thing

From the first viewing, it looked like Contador had him pegged, and then some. Hard to say whether he actually knew if it was a mechanical, or Schleck just blowing up, as he contends.

Got to feel for Schleck, whatever the concensus is. I feel Contador got a raw deal with all the booing, it's a race, not a popularity contest.

Sudden desire to buy a motorhome, for some reason...

ROK ON

I think whilst this makes for interesting debate, it misses the point that this sort of stuff occurs in every race from underage up to elite pro.
Ask yourself, if it happens in any amateur race do the other protagonists sit up and ride tempo until the dropped chain lad gets back on.
If it doesn't ordinarily happen in bike racing then it is not part of the culture of the sport.

Last year when Contador bonked in Dauphine should the other GC contendors have waited?

What happened to Andy may have been an accident but it was preventable, he should have used a chain catcher and he tried to shift at the wrong time.
As previous poster (tonto) mentioned, how many of us has this happened to cresting a hill while shifting from small to big ring. It happened to me and I have been careful not to let it happen again.

Shame it happened but hey, shift happens.

niceonetom

You know who's going to be riding angry tomorrow?

Jens.

Watch out Bertie. Watch out.

thereturn

Armstrong didn't wait in 99 mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T66LLvqgZS4

Liamo08

davyjose wrote: »

Crashing in the TT cost him the tour. He really, really deserved it that year.

If I remember correctly Ulrich and Armstrong were pretty much the same time when Ulrich crashed don't think he was going to take enough time back in the TT - could be wrong but that's how I remember it.

Anyway with regard to today I always thought that when the yellow jersey in the TDF crashes, punctures or has some other technical problem the group he was in almost always wait till he gets back on before starting racing again. I know stuff happens in a race and that's part and parcel but I always thought the unwritten rule for the yellow jersey in the Tour was to wait in circumstances like today. I don't for a minute buy Contador's excuse that he didn't know what had happened and that's why he pushed on. I think Kelly's analysis of situation was spot on - Contador was under pressure and took advantage of the situation without having time to think it through.

Chips Lovell

I've done races where I've been hammering up a drag and guys next to me or slightly in front have slowed down dramatically. I usually wouldn't have a clue about what happened, whether they'd blown up, dropped their chain, flatted or whatever. All I know is that I'm in a world of pain and all I'm focussed on is trying to get on a wheel.

nitrogen

Nobody waited for Roche when he got a flat today.

niceonetom

nitrogen wrote: »

Nobody waited for Roche when he got a flat today.

Was he in yellow?

corkandproud

Fair play to Riis, he calmed the situation and said exactly what should have been said. He'll still use it in the team talk tonight but hopefully (for Schlecks sake) in the right context.

It's tomorrow or Thursday that will decide the tour.

Liamo08

el tonto wrote: »

I've done races where I've been hammering up a drag and guys next to me or slightly in front have slowed down dramatically. I usually wouldn't have a clue about what happened, whether they'd blown up, dropped their chain, flatted or whatever. All I know is that I'm in a world of pain and all I'm focussed on is trying to get on a wheel.

Did you and the other lads in the group have an earpiece in your ear keeping you up to speed of everything that was going on at the time though?

Was he in yellow?

Completly agree with this, I've never seen someoe push on like that when the yellow jersey in the Tour has had a problem before.

nitrogen

niceonetom wrote: »

Was he in yellow?

Exactly, so it should not be any different for the leader. If everyone hung around when ever the maillot jaune had a problem, there would be no race.

cooker3

davyjose wrote: »

Crashing in the TT cost him the tour. He really, really deserved it that year.

Nah, he wouldn't taken Armstrong in that TT even without the crash.

AstraMonti

Thing is **** happens, Andy was unlucky and that's the only reason that Contador is in front.

I just love Andy: (end of the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcN2HrkrnF4

"I am angry and I will take my revenge"

Diarmuid

Link

After the next rest day, why don't all the guys who got refills just decide to be polite and wait for everyone who didn't.

I laughed ..

jwshooter

damned if you do damned if you dont .. it was bad luck on schleck ,but there is more than two of them in the race .

schlecks ,also had there neutralized stage all ready .

niceonetom

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdOJLuePexs

Damage control. His handlers are right to get this message out.

It won't stop Jens though.

I find it illuminating that the Spanich have no phrase of their own for "fair play". This is also true of the French BTW. Not kidding.

TinyExplosions

niceonetom wrote: »

It won't stop Jens though.

I want to see him really kicking some arse tomorrow, powering up the tourmalet, dropping everyone left right and centre!

dave.obrien

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Nobody stopped for me when I dropped a chain in that club race. Maybe I should wear my yellow jersey from now on.

Yeah, but nobody attacked either... Hey, didn't you come second anyway?!

For the record, I don't think AC did anything wrong, and to say the group the leader is with should sit up is missing the fact that Schleck wasn't in a group at the time. He had attacked, he was on his own. You want to race you accept you might lose. It's a shame AC isn't in yellow cause of the intense attacks he likes to launch, but he would have been in yellow anyway after the TT. I'd say Schleck knows that he f**ked the stage up for himself, but is still going to be p***ed about it.

doccy

Surprised by Contador to be honest, I seem to remember to ullrich and Armstrong waiting for each other. Still it makes for a great race, with Contador saying 30 seconds won't lose you Le Tour.
Fignon- Lemond springs to mind ha!

alibabba

Jasus so much indifference over a bike race. Ac shouldn't have attacked, andy feic'd up his gears! Do you know something... It doesn't really matter. Its all part of bike racing. It makes for one of the best le tours in a long long time. The drama is unreal. You couldn't make it up if you tried. Least ye not forget how boring the last few tours were. This one aint over yet. Andy is quoted in saying ' i will have my revenge on Tourmelet'. Now thats fighting talk. Thank god the chain broke. Otherwise the two of them would continue to hold hands all the way to gay paris !

The Big Easy

The way I saw it watching it live was that Andy had put in a tremendous attack and Vino was the only one to chase him down suggesting Contador was either unwilling or unable to follow. As far as I could see Contador only decided to attack after he saw Andy in trouble. In fact on viewing the replay he actually had to go around him as he slowed to a stop. So his saying afterwards that he was unaware of Andy's problem is a barefaced lie. Contador has showed very little of his trademark explosive bursts in this tour (for whatever reason we can only speculate) so it looked to me that Andy had his measure today but for his misfortune or ill-judgement (take your pick). Imo his actions were unsporting and to compare it to Roche's seems churlish at best. I will be cheering Andy on, on both ascents of the Tourmalet and hoping for a win that would undoubtedly go down in the annals of time as historic and one we will always remember. Good luck Andy.:)

davyjose

Liamo08 wrote: »

If I remember correctly Ulrich and Armstrong were pretty much the same time when Ulrich crashed don't think he was going to take enough time back in the TT - could be wrong but that's how I remember it.

He lost the Tour by 61 seconds, was the crash worth 62 seconds? I reckon so.

Edit: Plus he was apparently ill and lost time during the first week. That the guy only has one tour win seems wrong.

AstraMonti

The Big Easy wrote: »

The way I saw it watching it live was that Andy had put in a tremendous attack and Vino was the only one to chase him down suggesting Contador was either unwilling or unable to follow. As far as I could see Contador only decided to attack after he saw Andy in trouble. In fact on viewing the replay he actually had to go around him as he slowed to a stop. So his saying afterwards that he was unaware of Andy's problem is a barefaced lie. Contador has showed very little of his trademark explosive bursts in this tour (for whatever reason we can only speculate) so it looked to me that Andy had his measure today but for his misfortune or ill-judgement (take your pick). Imo his actions were unsporting and to compare it to Roche's seems churlish at best. I will be cheering Andy on, on both ascents of the Tourmalet and hoping for a win that would undoubtedly go down in the annals of time as historic and one we will always remember. Good luck Andy.:)

As much as I 'd like to agree with you, that's not correct. By the time Andy attacked, Vino responded immediately, and Contador after few seconds. Check the video I posted few posts before, 7th second, Contador is responding to the attack, it's not that he went on the attack because Andy had problem.

ROK ON

Nico Roche is a very angry man. Not only did Gadret attack while Roche needed a wheel, he refused to give his wheel to Roche after team ordered him to do so.
Nico may throw caution to the wind and try to get into a break to win time back.
From Indo.

Will have to be today as Thur may not suit. Have to say I think a top 15 aim is a bizarre goal. I'd rather Roche finished 40 with a stage win and a few places than top 15 and no wins or places.

Beached

It would probably sicken Nico if Gadret finished above him in the GC.
He was well pi**ed off in that article.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling-i-wanted-to-smash-his-head-in-i-couldnt-stand-to-be-near-him-2264978.html

Russman

Great thread so far, super read.
What Contador did was out of order IMO. Obviously by their nature, "unwritten rules" will always have an element of a judgement call about them and each situation plays out on its merits. Its pointless to talk about what might or might not happen in a club race or in the playground as a result. Oftentimes there will be codes of conduct that seem completely at odds with certain aspects of racing. These "ethics" are passed down through the generations and are expected to be observed.
It seems to me that what Contador did was more of the modern win at all costs mentality we see in other sports and a further erosion of whatever code of honour exists.

Now, the cynic in me might also say code of honour be damned when half of them are juiced to the eyeballs on drugs but, again, its one of those quirky things we see in sports.

My tuppence worth anyway.

Dodge

Roche tweeted about it last night but its been deleted. basically said a crash is one thing but a team amte attacking at that time is another! (he used an exclamation mark)

In the end I think Contador will win the tour by more than these 39 seconds.

Should be a good day today

AstraMonti

Beached wrote: »

It would probably sicken Nico if Gadret finished above him in the GC.
He was well pi**ed off in that article.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling-i-wanted-to-smash-his-head-in-i-couldnt-stand-to-be-near-him-2264978.html

You just have to love Roche

Although I wanted to smash his head in, and had visions of a baldy French climber exiting through the windscreen, I let Vincent do his job as team manager and said nothing. I got off the bus as quickly as possible and travelled to the hotel in the team car. I couldn't stand to be near him. I will have to keep my hands in my pockets at the dinner table.

Liamo08

davyjose wrote: »

He lost the Tour by 61 seconds, was the crash worth 62 seconds? I reckon so.

Edit: Plus he was apparently ill and lost time during the first week. That the guy only has one tour win seems wrong.

There was 2 seconds of a difference at the second time check and Ulrich was pushing hard on dangerous corners trying to gain the time when he crashed. Armstrong obviously heard about Ulrich's crash and rode very carefully around the dangerous corners to avoid crashing himself. I think he had the situation in control and was going to win anyway http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwhKLxdkEX4

glornadtonn

Game over. There's no way that Schleck can pull 2 minutes out before the TT is there?
So attention moves to the big one, Roche vs Gadret!!

ednwireland

Beached wrote: »

It would probably sicken Nico if Gadret finished above him in the GC.
He was well pi**ed off in that article.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/cycling-i-wanted-to-smash-his-head-in-i-couldnt-stand-to-be-near-him-2264978.html

Vincent was still screaming in our earpieces, calling Gadret every name under the sun and telling him to wait for me on the descent and help me claw back some time on the long run in to the finish. Gadret, though, just ignored him and kept riding.

great stuff

Chips Lovell

Liamo08 wrote: »

Did you and the other lads in the group have an earpiece in your ear keeping you up to speed of everything that was going on at the time though?

No, but do you really think you get an instant reaction in the earpiece, i.e. the second he's going by Schleck they are shouting at him that he's dropped his chain? He slowed down and looked around a lot later.

The Big Easy wrote: »

As far as I could see Contador only decided to attack after he saw Andy in trouble.

Contador was already off the front of the group, out of the saddle, chasing before Schleck even slowed down.

Chips Lovell

Here's the sequence of events (I spend way too much time geeking out over stuff):

Schleck attacks, out of the saddle. Vino is the first to ride up to his wheel, while Contador (far left) is out of the saddle, chasing, off the front of the group:


Schleck slows down dramatically. He's passed by Vino and Contador is coming fast up behind him:


Contador passes Schleck, who's still in the saddle and trying to keep moving:


Schleck puts his foot down to stop and rectify the problem. Contador is already past him: