Stage 15 - Monday, July 19 2010, Pamiers - Bagnères-de-Luchon, 187 km

Liamo08

el tonto wrote: »

No, but do you really think you get an instant reaction in the earpiece, i.e. the second he's going by Schleck they are shouting at him that he's dropped his chain? He slowed down and looked around a lot later.

He may not have gotten an instant reaction but there is no way they got to the top of the climb without knowing what had happened. Whether they're obliged to wait or not is up for debate but to me it looks like either Contador is lying saying he didnt know what was going on or he was told to ride by the guys in the team car.

Chips Lovell

Liamo08 wrote: »

He may not have gotten an instant reaction but there is no way they got to the top of the climb without knowing what had happened. Whether they're obliged to wait or not is up for debate but to me it looks like either Contador is lying saying he didnt know what was going on or he was told to ride by the guys in the team car.

No, I've no doubt he was told in the following minute or two that there was a problem. But what's he supposed to do. Sit there and let Menchov and Sanchez ride ahead?

Dodge

it should also be noted that the gap at the top of the climb was only 22 seconds. Contador put another 17 seconds into him on the descent

Surprised Roche hasn't attacked yet

ednwireland

Liamo08 wrote: »

He may not have gotten an instant reaction but there is no way they got to the top of the climb without knowing what had happened. Whether they're obliged to wait or not is up for debate but to me it looks like either Contador is lying saying he didnt know what was going on or he was told to ride by the guys in the team car.

el tonto wrote: »

No, I've no doubt he was told in the following minute or two that there was a problem. But what's he supposed to do. Sit there and let Menchov and Sanchez ride ahead?

actually i think its quite possible the team didnt tell him, why would they introduce doubt when hes up the road if contador called the car and asked they would have told him but i doubt he would have done that on the climb and i guessing once he was on the descent he just went for it

(and i still cant see why he should wait, contador did nothing wrong and has nothing to apologise for)

xz

Dodge wrote: »

it should also be noted that the gap at the top of the climb was only 22 seconds. Contador put another 17 seconds into him on the descent

But Contador was in a group that was working very well together, Andy was basically chasing hard on his own, so to limit the damage to as little as he did, was a great performance, he was getting a little help, but there was no way Vinokourov was going to take up the pace

Morrisseeee

Really enjoying the tour this year, in fact I haven't followed it for the last few years mainly because of all the doping scandals, hopefully this year they're (reasonably:eek:) clean. Yesterday's stage was looking like a damp squip until Schleck and team drove up the mountain and then it looks like with a few km's left he decided to try and get to the top maybe to get an slight advantage before the descent, but then.......bam......mistake by Schleck and..........(no matter how many times I've viewed it) it definitely looks like Contador takes advantage, he actually passes Schleck on the inside and has to avoid him because he slows down dramatically, Vino actually slows down, but Contador powers on, followed by the other contenders. Schleck says he wouldn't have done that manouver, and his character would suggest he wouldn't, but Contador gets no respect from me or possibly the majority of sports fans. I was a Schleck fan as he came into contention this year (underdog I suppose), but now I hope he burns Contador up the mountains today & Thursday.

Liamo08

el tonto wrote: »

No, I've no doubt he was told in the following minute or two that there was a problem. But what's he supposed to do. Sit there and let Menchov and Sanchez ride ahead?

I agree that he shouldn't have let Menchov and Sanchez push on but it looked like he was doing most of the riding and Menchov said after the stage that he was just following Contador. From similar circumstances that I've see in the Tour before I would have expected the 3 of them to ride at a steady tempo and give Schlek the chance to get back on.

BryanL

100% Contador knew went he went past, he had to swerve to avoid Schlek.
As if he didn't see or here Schlek dropping his chain, swearing and stop pedaling?
He's only watching one guy in this race for the last week,but was thinking of something else at the time???
Can't wait for today, Schlek solo didn't lose much time yesterday against 3 riders working for 20Km, he might not lose much time to Contador in the final time trial.
Bryan

Dodge

BryanL wrote: »

As if he didn't see or here Schlek dropping his chain, swearing and stop pedaling?
He's only watching one guy in this race for the last week,but was thinking of something else at the time???

No, he said he was attacking at the time. if he's a second away from attacking he's not going to be looking directly at Schleck


anyway its done now, and IMO it won't matter in paris

Chips Lovell

Liamo08 wrote: »

I agree that he shouldn't have let Menchov and Sanchez push on but it looked like he was doing most of the riding and Menchov said after the stage that he was just following Contador. From similar circumstances that I've see in the Tour before I would have expected the 3 of them to ride at a steady tempo and give Schlek the chance to get back on.

He followed Contador's counter. Contador was looking around and when Sanchez and Menchov came up to them he sat on their wheels for a long time.

furiousox

From bbc.co.uk

Alberto Contador has responded to criticism that he broke race etiquette yesterday by taking advantage of Andy Scleck's mechanical failure to take the leader's yellow jersey. Contador said: "The race was in full gear and, well, maybe I made a mistake. I'm sorry."

tunguska

Cant believe Contador, what a weasle. He's an absolute disgrace. Hope Schleck takes him to the cleaners.

kenmc

Loving Blazing Saddles take on it :

It was a mechanical failure, granted, but Schleck made the decision to shed 50g of weight by not using a chain guard. What's more, he didn't have a clue how to mend the defect in the heat of the moment - which is a bit like a footballer not knowing how to tie his shoelaces.

As one of Saddles' blogging brethren, the admirable Joe Papp, mused: "Schleck should learn how to shift better, and SRAM should make their components idiot-proof. Start there."

CheGuedara

AstraMonti

kenmc wrote: »

Loving Blazing Saddles take on it :

Ah come on, he doesn't deserve that. Imagine what's going on his mind at that point. Fair enough he panicked, but he is not even 23 yet. He has 15years to reach the greatest cyclist the earth has seen :rolleyes:

doozerie

Already posted this link in another thread but it really belongs here I guess: Lennard Zinn speculates that the issue was Schleck's SRAM Red rear derailleur, not lack of a chain guard. His logic seems sound and certainly fits with the footage that I saw.

recedite

doozerie wrote: »

Lennard Zinn speculates that the issue was Schleck's SRAM Red rear derailleur, not lack of a chain guard. His logic seems sound and certainly fits with the footage that I saw.

I disagree, because firstly if a rear wheel jams, it skids. If a front wheel jams, only then might the rear jump. Secondly a chain guard is for keeping your skirts from tangling in the chain.
It seems Schleck made the very basic mistake of trying to change gear while accelerating uphill, with chain on the smaller cogs, and chain possibly a tad too loose anyway. It skipped on the rear cogs and came off. And then he made a haems of putting it back on.
After dishonouring the yellow jersey the day before with the slow bicycle race too, he is now looking a bit of an eejit.

TinyExplosions

On the ITV coverage earlier tonight they had a bit with one of the Saxo mechanics who basically said that somehow the chain catcher had managed to bend and that's how the chain had dropped off... might just be the team line, but I don't see any reason for them to lie about it

TinyExplosions

recedite wrote: »

I disagree, because firstly if a rear wheel jams, it skids. If a front wheel jams, only then might the rear jump. Secondly a chain guard is for keeping your skirts from tangling in the chain.
It seems Schleck made the very basic mistake of trying to change gear while accelerating uphill, with chain on the smaller cogs, and ch

You could well get the rear to jump if you are out of the saddle, leaning all your weight forward on the bike, pedaling hard, and the chain binds on something, pulling the rear up (remember there won't have been a lot of weight on the rear wheel)

dave2pvd

TinyExplosions wrote: »

On the ITV coverage earlier tonight they had a bit with one of the Saxo mechanics who basically said that somehow the chain catcher had managed to bend and that's how the chain had dropped off... might just be the team line, but I don't see any reason for them to lie about it

I always thought the Saxo chain guides looked a bit flimsy. (Not a shameless plug, btw).

A jammed chain would throw the rear wheel up. For reasons already mentioned - your weight could suddenly move forward.

doozerie

recedite wrote: »

I disagree, because firstly if a rear wheel jams, it skids. If a front wheel jams, only then might the rear jump.

Zinn isn't saying that the wheel jammed, and from the video clip it certainly looks like it never jammed. He is saying the drivetrain jammed so Schleck would have been putting a lot of power on the pedals which were trying to turn a cassette that was locked up. The wheel kept rolling as the freehub wasn't affected so it was never going to skid. All of that energy that Schleck was applying had to go somewhere and it didn't go into forward momentum it went into upward momentum instead.

Zinn himself says that it is only a theory of what happened and accepts that he could be wrong, but it's the most plausible theory that I've seen yet as not only does it explain the chain coming off but also explains why the rear wheel kicked. If it was a simple case of the chain coming off, with nothing jamming the drivetrain then I can't see how the back wheel would have kicked.

recedite

Yes, you are right the wheel is not supposed to have jammed, just the derailleur in the cogs. Still, it seems unlikely, given that the chain would have to be extremely loose, and given that if the loop got caught in the block, the block is rotating clockwise and would tend to release it again. Unless he was backpeddaling, which he wasn't. Difficult to know though, unless you were looking at the same set-up in front of you.

I'm not too impressed with Contador either, but nothing to do with him leaving Schlech behind. Look at him riding up on the inside on the last corner at 5;08 in this clip. The others are all taking the correct, fastest line into the corner. AG2 rider Mondory sees him sneaking up and says I'm not having that. Moves across to block him. Contador takes hand off the bars, as if to say yield right of way to me, I'm the boss, I want to be in front now for the finish. The others are forced to let him through or crash into him, but afterwards they lash him out of it in the sprint :pac:

Moral of the story; if you want to get to the front, pedal harder than everyone else and ride up the outside. Don't try to make everyone else brake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcN2HrkrnF4