A Warning to ALL TV Buyers. Flood of UK surplus TVs on market.

Sponge Bob

The UK started to turn off its analogue TV in the spring and will continue to do so on a staged basis from now to end 2012 with Northern Ireland among the last areas to phase it out.

UK Retailers responded by pulling analogue TVs from the channel. Sadly it appears that some of these retailers have dumped them on the Irish instead Analogue only TVs will only work for another 2 and bit years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/jul/06/analogue-television-digital-switchover

All the major high street electronics retailers have now stopped selling analogue sets after quietly running down their stocks in recent months, in preparation for the switch to digital terrestrial television (DTT) by 2012.
Last month ( June 2010) , for the first time, there were no sales of analogue TV sets in the UK, according to figures published today by the organisation responsible for helping viewers switch, Digital UK.
With 5 million homes now transferred to a DTT-only signal and 11 million more due to switch by the end of 2011, new analogue TV sets are of little use to viewers.

Here are some key points to note if you are buying a TV from a UK retailer or even from an Irish retailer on 'special offer' . You never know where they got them from.

1. UK and Ireland will turn off analogue at the end of 2012. This means that the tuners in most Irish tellys will no longer work. You will need a box to pick up the digital signal thereafter. If you have a Sky box or UPC cable box you will be fine after 2012.

2. Around 60% of Irish houses can pick up Irish Digital TV today with no effort bar plugging a compliant TV in and tuning it. The crude but effective test is whether you can pick up TV3 by aerial right now. If so a Digital TV signal is available to you.

3. A UK Digital TV is called "Freeview". A UK High Definition Digital TV is called "Freeview HD". ONLY FREEVIEW HD TV's generally work in Ireland and box standard Freeview TVs generally DO NOT( there are exceptions). You will get sound but no picture if it is Freeview only.

4. By end October 2010 around 70% of homes will get digital easily. Another 10% to 15% of homes will pick up Digital if they modify their aerial a bit, generally 10% to 15% these have TG4 already even if they do not have TV3

5. If you ONLY have RTE1 and RTE2 and no or else dismal TV3 and/or TG4 you will need a new aerial.

6. If you are buying a TV or Set top box ( STB) to pick up Irish Digital Television check in the store and ask the shop manager to note on the receipt that you are buying for Digital TV. If it fails to work then bring it back for a refund. Lidl Aldi and Argos are OK like that but Tesco can be sticky.

In a survey I personally carried out on recent stock in Lidl Aldi Argos and Tesco I found that NO LIDL OR ALDI TV will pick up Irish Digital TV. Very few in Argos and Tesco will. The cheaper ones are the worst.

7. Irish Digital TV will be known as "Saorview" and fully compliant TVs and STBs will have a Saorview sticker starting around October . In general a "Freeview HD" branded TV or STB or Recorder will be absolutely fine. Check the model number against this ongoing monitoring thread on Boards or ask about the make and model number.

8. Freesat is not Freeview. Do not ask about Freesat in this thread, nowt to do with it

9. If you find any stores selling "Digital" TVs that do not work here then flag them in this thread along with the model numbers they are peddling to unsuspecting consumers.

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

3. A UK Digital TV is called "Freeview". A UK High Definition Digital TV is called "Freeview HD". ONLY FREEVIEW HD TV's generally work in Ireland and box standard Freeview TVs generally DO NOT( there are exceptions). You will get sound but no picture if it is Freeview only.

I was asked to clarify this point by PM. Here are some models in Argos. One should work here and the others probably won't. At least with Argos they will take it back

This TV has "MPEG4 capability. Should work in Ireland.

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/catalogId/1500002251/partNumber/5293850.htm

This one does not mention "MPEG4" and therefore will not work.

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5293647.htm

Will Not Work

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/5367858/Trail/searchtext%3ELG.htm



"HD Ready" is utterly meaningless, it must have an MPEG4 decoder built in to work in Ireland and that requirement has been widely known for years.

keithclancy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The UK started to turn off its analogue TV in the spring and will continue to do so on a staged basis from now to end 2012 with Northern Ireland among the last areas to phase it out.

UK Retailers responded by pulling analogue TVs from the channel. Sadly it appears that some of these retailers have dumped them on the Irish instead Analogue only TVs will only work for another 2 and bit years.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/jul/06/analogue-television-digital-switchover



Here are some key points to note if you are buying a TV from a UK retailer or even from an Irish retailer on 'special offer' . You never know where they got them from.

1. UK and Ireland will turn off analogue at the end of 2012. This means that the tuners in most Irish tellys will no longer work. You will need a box to pick up the digital signal thereafter. If you have a Sky box or UPC cable box you will be fine after 2012.

2. Around 60% of Irish houses can pick up Irish Digital TV today with no effort bar plugging a compliant TV in and tuning it. The crude but effective test is whether you can pick up TV3 by aerial right now. If so a Digital TV signal is available to you.

3. A UK Digital TV is called "Freeview". A UK High Definition Digital TV is called "Freeview HD". ONLY FREEVIEW HD TV's generally work in Ireland and box standard Freeview TVs generally DO NOT( there are exceptions). You will get sound but no picture if it is Freeview only.

4. By end October 2010 around 70% of homes will get digital easily. Another 10% to 15% of homes will pick up Digital if they modify their aerial a bit, generally 10% to 15% these have TG4 already even if they do not have TV3

5. If you ONLY have RTE1 and RTE2 and no or else dismal TV3 and/or TG4 you will need a new aerial.

6. If you are buying a TV or Set top box ( STB) to pick up Irish Digital Television check in the store and ask the shop manager to note on the receipt that you are buying for Digital TV. If it fails to work then bring it back for a refund. Lidl Aldi and Argos are OK like that but Tesco can be sticky.

In a survey I personally carried out on recent stock in Lidl Aldi Argos and Tesco I found that NO LIDL OR ALDI TV will pick up Irish Digital TV. Very few in Argos and Tesco will. The cheaper ones are the worst.

7. Irish Digital TV will be known as "Saorview" and fully compliant TVs and STBs will have a Saorview sticker starting around October . In general a "Freeview HD" branded TV or STB or Recorder will be absolutely fine. Check the model number against this ongoing monitoring thread on Boards or ask about the make and model number.

8. Freesat is not Freeview. Do not ask about Freesat in this thread, nowt to do with it

9. If you find any stores selling "Digital" TVs that do not work here then flag them in this thread along with the model numbers they are peddling to unsuspecting consumers.

Ugh ..... you do know that there is NO guarantee that the current DVB-T tellys will continue to work with RTE. Its still in a test phase and quite possible that they may use a CAM to allow viewing.

Most TV's sold on the continent are Analog, very few with builtin DVT-T Tuners are sold.

Grumpypants

I would be very surprised if analogue got turned off in 2012 considering freeview hasnt even been rolled out properly here its still only in testing. Allthough that is the plan. But freeview was ment to be up and running by now too.

More than likely you will need to buy a set top box anyway as a large % of TV's here are mpeg2 not mpeg4. People with brand new TV's may still not be able to pick up RTE.

If you have Sky/UPC etc you dont need to worry about this eitherway. But i wonder how they will justify the TV licence for channels you cant pick up.

knipex

Sponge Bob

Am I correct in say that if you are using a Sky Box or UPC box (or free sat box) that buying one of these will make absolutely no difference.

TheDriver

correct knipex, because the box is then doing the tuning etc

Sponge Bob

knipex wrote: »

Am I correct in say that if you are using a Sky Box or UPC box (or free sat box) that buying one of these will make absolutely no difference.

Correct. It is stated in point number 1 above. Around 2/3 housholds pick up a digital signal from SKY or UPC already.

Second Tellys etc often don't have a SKY or UPC feed direct to them. They will require an STB from late 2012 onwards.

Analogue will be switched off in late 2012. The spectrum is required for other uses north and south of the border.

dave1982

Wow this is interesting thank's for posting.How will people get rte etc when analogue is switched off if they have no sky,lets say a tv 5 years old?Will RTE issue box's or something?



I had google and came up with this

DTT Rollout

Progress Towards National Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) Services - Latest Information

Latest Information - RTÉ Irish free to air DTT service set to launch to 90% of population by October 31st 2010

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources Eamon Ryan T.D. has signed an Order under the Broadcasting Act, 2009, requiring RTÉ to ensure that their free to air digital television service is operational and available to 90% of the population by 31st October 2010.
This order, Statutory Instrument 85 of 2010, the RTÉ (National Television Multiplex) Order 2010, is available at the following link.

RTÉ has not yet launched it's DTT service. Cosequently there is no Irish DTT service available. The DTT network is currently being built and tested.

RTÉ Networks Limited (RTÉNL) is a subsidiary of RTÉ and is responsible for building RTÉ’s DTT national network. To date, RTÉNL has digitally enabled the 13 main transmitter sites in Ireland and is operating a series of tests from these sites.



Progress on the development of Commercial DTT services

At present there are no commercial DTT operators licensed to provide commercial DTT services in Ireland. The BAI is currently involved in a competitive process and is seeking to contract commercial DTT service providers.

Source =http://www.digitaltelevision.ie/National+DTT/

Sponge Bob

It will on its hole manage 90% coverage on October 31st unless people put monster aerials on their houses in many cases. I refer to point 4

4. By end October 2010 around 70% of homes will get digital easily. Another 10% to 15% of homes will pick up Digital if they modify their aerial a bit

It will reach 90% coverage next year, without monster aerials. RTE have only enabled 20 or so of their planned 50 transmitters to date. Another 5-10 will be live by christmas with 20 to follow in 2011 and 2012.

50 transmitters will not cover everybody but we are concentrating on the 95-98% of the population who will be covered by these 50 transmitters and by 2012 ...as long as they buy the right telly of course

JohnC.

You don't need the right TV. You just need a box. Especially if you want to take advantage of PVR functions.

UrbanSea

It's simple enough. Alot of the tv's still on sale here are not digital ready,however,you're retailer will be more than happy to tell you which ones are and aren't. Those of which that have MPEG4 as stated,are digital ready.

delllat

greetings wrote: »

It's simple enough. Alot of the tv's still on sale here are not digital ready,however,you're retailer will be more than happy to tell you which ones are and aren't. Those of which that have MPEG4 as stated,are digital ready.

the retailers will be getting rid of the old ones ASAP

if u dont ask for the modern version they will probably give u an "old" one and u will be forced to use a box to make it fully functional

keithclancy

delllat wrote: »

the retailers will be getting rid of the old ones ASAP

if u dont ask for the modern version they will probably give u an "old" one and u will be forced to use a box to make it fully functional

Helllooooo !!!

as an example Holland ONLY broadcasts on Digital, and TV's still come with an Analog Tuner.

I bought my Samsung TV in Media markt and it came with an Analog Tuner !!!!

Analog TV's will still be around long after Ireland goes Digital, just like in Belgium, Germany, France etc.

Jesus .. the world does not revolve around the tiny island ffs

You can buy a DVB-T Set top box anyway for 30 euros later on if you need it.

keithclancy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

It will on its hole manage 90% coverage on October 31st unless people put monster aerials on their houses in many cases. I refer to point 4



It will reach 90% coverage next year, without monster aerials. RTE have only enabled 20 or so of their planned 50 transmitters to date. Another 5-10 will be live by christmas with 20 to follow in 2011 and 2012.

50 transmitters will not cover everybody but we are concentrating on the 95-98% of the population who will be covered by these 50 transmitters and by 2012 ...as long as they buy the right telly of course

They'll easily manage 90% with FTA Satelite:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055968485

RangeR

keithclancy wrote: »

They'll easily manage 90% with FTA Satelite:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055968485

That is a different tech. We are talking about digital switchover to DTT ONLY.

keithclancy

RangeR wrote: »

That is a different tech. We are talking about digital switchover to DTT ONLY.

Indeed, but its down the same path as the UK,

DVB-T for the populated areas.
DVB-S for the sparse areas on spot beam.

Same service on both, and you can get TV's with DVB-S tuners builtin as well.

I built a media center and stuck in a Hauppauge DVR-4000 Sat card that does DVB-S DVB-T and Analog +FM ... I don't need to use the tuner in the TV because you can't record from it

Sponge Bob

Point number 8.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

8. Freesat is not Freeview. Do not ask about Freesat in this thread, nowt to do with it

You cannot receive RTE on Freesat. We are discussing so called TV sets that are not capable of receiving terrestrial signals not satellite signals.

Digital Television 101 is a device that can:

1. Tune to a Digital (aka DTT or DVB-T) Signal and connect to an aerial to help the tuning.
2. Deliver sound to user
3. Deliver picture to user.

Anything else is not a Digital Television.

It is perhaps a Digital MONITOR that shows a picture/audio sent to it by a box or computer.

It should not be sold as a Digital TV. Period.End of.Full stop !!!!

keithclancy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Point number 8.



You cannot receive RTE on Freesat. We are discussing so called TV sets that are not capable of receiving terrestrial signals not satellite signals.

Digital Television 101 is a device that can:

1. Tune to a Digital (aka DTT or DVB-T) Signal and connect to an aerial to help the tuning.
2. Deliver sound to user
3. Deliver picture to user.

Anything else is not a Digital Television.

It is perhaps a Digital MONITOR that shows a picture/audio sent to it by a box or computer.

It should not be sold as a Digital TV. Period.End of.Full stop !!!!

Did you even read the other thread.

Saorsat, being setup by RTE for Free to Air Irish Channels on a spot beam over Ireland, its completely seperate to Freesat carried on Astra 28.2

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saorsat

Supposed to go live at some point next year.

A TV capable of recieving Digital TV everywhere else (Not Ireland) recieves DVB-S, DVB-T, or even DVB-Ci with a CAM, the last one isn't sold in Ireland as its not allowed to use cams with UPC, however nearly everywhere else it is.

TV's with DVB-S Tuners builtin aren't sold in Ireland on a large scale because there is not Freesat equivolent there yet.

Example:
http://www.expert.nl/televisie/led-tv/samsung-ue40c6800?utm_source=Affiliate&utm_medium=Productfeed&utm_campaign=Conversive

Digital TV here sold with all four tuners builtin.

My point being that there is no "Future Proof" tuner for a TV, for example they brought out TV's here with builting DVB-T Tuners (MPEG4) but then KPN the incumbent enabled encryption but lots of the TV's didn't have the capability to accept CAMS(Card that slots in the side to accept an encryption card) hence the Terretrial TV tuner became useless.

Rare that anyone here buys a TV for the builtin Tuner.

My TV has an Analog and DVB-C Tuner .. but theres no bloody cam for it to use with my cable provider (UPC) ..not that I would use it anyway

Scan Man

Why didn't someone tell people about this? I've got Sky Digital so I'm ok, but there's probably thousands of people out there that haven't a clue that this change is happening. I never heard it mentioned, except on UK television channels an odd time.

I'd always wondered why I could no longer pick up TV3 using a analogue portable I've had for the last few years but could get RTE1 and 2.

slimjimmc

Scan Man wrote: »

Why didn't someone tell people about this? I've got Sky Digital so I'm ok, but there's probably thousands of people out there that haven't a clue that this change is happening. I never heard it mentioned, except on UK television channels an odd time.

I'd always wondered why I could no longer pick up TV3 using a analogue portable I've had for the last few years but could get RTE1 and 2.

TV3 is broadcast on analogue so you should be able to receive it on the portable if you're within range of a RTÉ transmitter. Your reception problem is not related to DTT or Digital TVs.

Sponge Bob

I repeat point 2 above

2. Around 60% of Irish houses can pick up Irish Digital TV today with no effort bar plugging a compliant TV in and tuning it. The crude but effective test is whether you can pick up TV3 by aerial right now. If so a Digital TV signal is available to you.

His problem is not lack of TV3 it is the lack of TG4 which is around 50% more widely available than TV3 who refuse to pay for national coverage and are only broadcast from around 12 - 15 transmitters.

It indicates he has a VHF aerial only ( the H shaped one) possibly even a rather ancient one or that the rabbit ears on the portable are VHF only or that the TV has no UHF tuner but can only tune VHF ( rather unlikely) , VHF is the analogue band in which RTE is generally broadcast.

He must receive from one of the transmitters on page one of the first doc below. It tells him what 'band' UHF aerial to get in addition. There is no such thing as a 'digital aerial' only a UHF aerial.

http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/television-frequencies.pdf

also

http://www.tvtrade.ie/analogue-tv-aerial-selection-guide.html

Finally

http://www.rtenl.ie/downloads/Receiving%20DTT%20%28May%2010%29.pdf

He needs a UHF aerial to pick up TV3 or TG4 analogue. This aerial will also be used for Digital TV.

The 'H' aerials will all be scrap in 2013 unless you also use them to pick up FM radio.

UrbanSea

delllat wrote: »

the retailers will be getting rid of the old ones ASAP

if u dont ask for the modern version they will probably give u an "old" one and u will be forced to use a box to make it fully functional

A good few of the tv's on the market here aren't digital ready,and I say it to customers about which tv's have MPEG4. Most of them don't even know what I'm on about.

Sponge Bob

greetings wrote: »

A good few of the tv's on the market here aren't digital ready,and I say it to customers about which tv's have MPEG4. Most of them don't even know what I'm on about.

You can tell them which ones will stop receiving RTE/TV3/TG4 in 2 and a 1/2 years and which ones won't , that should get their attention. Analogue absolutely has to be turned off in the Northwest ( a done deal with the UK over spectrum) whereas it could be left on in Kerry for example.

UrbanSea

Sponge Bob wrote: »

You can tell them which ones will stop receiving RTE/TV3/TG4 in 2 and a 1/2 years and which ones won't , that should get their attention. Analogue absolutely has to be turned off in the Northwest ( a done deal with the UK over spectrum) whereas it could be left on in Kerry for example.

So will the channels still be available on analogue for a while once it's introduced before being phased out totally?

Sponge Bob

Truskmore has been broadcasting digital ( mpeg4 of course) since 2009. It will be formally launched in 3 months by ministerial order. Analogue turnoff is December 2012.

Sponge Bob

Tesco are ( and will continue to be) selling UK only gear in Ireland, this thread concerns a "Cello" model that will not work in Ireland.

Sponge Bob

Aldi are dumping another of these UK compliant TVs through their shops.

Let me be clear. This will not decode an Irish Digital TV Signal. Not now, not never.

They are being more circumspect than before and are not claiming it will. It will, however, work as an analogue TV with USB recording for two years and as a DVD player thereafter.

http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/special_buys3_14707.htm

astrofool

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Aldi are dumping another of these UK compliant TVs through their shops.

Let me be clear. This will not decode an Irish Digital TV Signal. Not now, not never.

They are being more circumspect than before and are not claiming it will. It will, however, work as an analogue TV with USB recording for two years and as a DVD player thereafter.

http://www.aldi.ie/ie/html/offers/special_buys3_14707.htm

or perfectly fine on UPC/Sky/digital box

Jev/N

Fair play for the posts but I don't see the big issue (besides the false advertisements)... I bought my TV from the North in full knowledge it wasn't compliant for DTT but couldn't have cared less due to having a digital sub, not to mention that I could buy a decoder if I needed it anyways.

Sponge Bob

Because many of these TVs are not even sold in the UK any more, simply dumped here where over half of the population do not realise that they will cease to work in 2012. In May 2010 no analogue only TVs were sold in the UK and yet the same chains are still selling them here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10535663

Then there is the freeview rubbish.

channelsurfer2

yes aldi should really be done for false advertising with a big digital logo on their brochures for this tv.
except is uk digital tv not saorview the irish version. if you bought one of these and rely on an aerial for your tv reception then you will have to fork out another 100euro in 2012 for a decoder box just for the pleasure of having rte via your aerial.