PTRB procedure

Graces7

Does anyone have experience please of the course of a complaint?

They have taken on our issue re illegal eviction notice and we are waiting for adjudication; playing for time so we can find a new house.

I ask as when I wrote to the offending landlord asking for the deposit back as we cannot find a deposit and move unless he does this, his reply was..

He clearly has absolutely no idea of how many folk live on eg welfare or a pension. So he has said he will not use "undue pressure" to make us leave until we have amassed the deposit. ( the date he stipulated on the original letter was 15th July) He thinks that our difficulties are due to the current economic climate and claims he too has suffered.

ie he has no say in this; will be by now have been advised by PTRB that the case is in process? Especially as he never registered with them?

Do I tug my non-existent forelock to his "kindness"?

KevArno

I am not quite sure I understand that all...

But one thing, if he didn't register the tenancy it may cause him some serious trouble. I think there are large fines for not registering with the PRTB.
By the way, I was in the PRTB offices just off O'Connell Bridge in Dublin last week for an adjudaction, and it was a very informal process. Everyone gets their say, and the adjudacator takes the info away to deliberate.

Graces7

KevArno wrote: »

I am not quite sure I understand that all...

But one thing, if he didn't register the tenancy it may cause him some serious trouble. I think there are large fines for not registering with the PRTB.
By the way, I was in the PRTB offices just off O'Connell Bridge in Dublin last week for an adjudaction, and it was a very informal process. Everyone gets their say, and the adjudacator takes the info away to deliberate.

Thanks; we assumed he would have heard something from the PTRB by now is my query as we have had all the paperwork weeks ago. He is writing as if the situation did not exist. ie as if he is still a free agent in whether we are evicted by him or not. Threshhold have been great by the way.

KevArno

Well it was a prob 4-5 weeks before we heard anything from the PRTB, but then it was an acknowledgment, and the hearing was set for 2 weeks or so later. I think we now have a few weeks to wait to hear the verdict.

fabbydabby

Even if it goes to adjudication, you can appeal the result of this after 30 days, so you'll get another few months out of that, and if you fail in the appeal it does to court, and you can keep something in the circuit court for 2 years if you put your mind to it.

i once had a tenant run up 24,000 in rent arrears so if you need advise on how to live in a property without paying rent while riding roughshod over your landlord, I'll fill you in, I've been thorough the mill.

Graces7

fabbydabby wrote: »

Even if it goes to adjudication, you can appeal the result of this after 30 days, so you'll get another few months out of that, and if you fail in the appeal it does to court, and you can keep something in the circuit court for 2 years if you put your mind to it.

i once had a tenant run up 24,000 in rent arrears so if you need advise on how to live in a property without paying rent while riding roughshod over your landlord, I'll fill you in, I've been thorough the mill.

Oh GEE! Words fail!

We have no intention of taking that route; hoping to be out of here in a few weeks now. HOPING.

And in this case it is the landlord running VERY roughshod over US. Indeed it is.

He is very welcome to his subtstandard house. VERY welcome indeed.

TouchingVirus

You fill in the form, opt for Mediation or Adjudication. You include your complaint. Said complaint gets forwarded to the landlorn with a request to attend mediation (I think) or with a opportunity to counter your complaint (I know). The landlord's counter-argument is once again forwarded to the complainant, who has another opportunity to respond. I am unsure if the landlord gets another opportunity to respond. Then an adjudicator, who is not your PTRB contact, will read all materials and make a decision.

You will be posted the decision along with their report which will outline how they came to the decision, quoting from relevant law where appropriate.

You have 21 days to appeal this decision from the date received before it becomes an enforceable order of law. This will involve paying €40 and appearing at a 3-person tribunal where you will have your appeal. It's pretty informal as the whole process is designed to keep this stuff out of the courts.

Even then if you're not happy, there are the courts

Graces7

TouchingVirus wrote: »

You fill in the form, opt for Mediation or Adjudication. You include your complaint. Said complaint gets forwarded to the landlorn with a request to attend mediation (I think) or with a opportunity to counter your complaint (I know). The landlord's counter-argument is once again forwarded to the complainant, who has another opportunity to respond. I am unsure if the landlord gets another opportunity to respond. Then an adjudicator, who is not your PTRB contact, will read all materials and make a decision.

You will be posted the decision along with their report which will outline how they came to the decision, quoting from relevant law where appropriate.

You have 21 days to appeal this decision from the date received before it becomes an enforceable order of law. This will involve paying €40 and appearing at a 3-person tribunal where you will have your appeal. It's pretty informal as the whole process is designed to keep this stuff out of the courts.

Even then if you're not happy, there are the courts

Thanks. So he may not yet have had anything from them; which explains his bizarre letter.... Ah well.....

As a matter of interest, what happens if we leave the disputed property before the adjudication? Does the whole thing lapse then?

Or does he get a slap on the wrist anyways?

Yes, we are aware as are Threshold, that we are playing for time of course.

TouchingVirus

Graces7 wrote: »

Thanks. So he may not yet have had anything from them; which explains his bizarre letter.... Ah well.....

As a matter of interest, what happens if we leave the disputed property before the adjudication? Does the whole thing lapse then?

Or does he get a slap on the wrist anyways?

Yes, we are aware as are Threshold, that we are playing for time of course.

I really can't say because your original post is very confusing Here, let me break down what I can't understand, maybe your can clarify

Does anyone have experience please of the course of a complaint?

Yes, posted above

They have taken on our issue re illegal eviction notice and we are waiting for adjudication; playing for time so we can find a new house.

What illegal eviction notice? Can you elaborate on this - your landlord gave you notice of eviction?

I ask as when I wrote to the offending landlord asking for the deposit back as we cannot find a deposit and move unless he does this, his reply was..

His reply was.... what? You never said

He clearly has absolutely no idea of how many folk live on eg welfare or a pension. So he has said he will not use "undue pressure" to make us leave until we have amassed the deposit. ( the date he stipulated on the original letter was 15th July) He thinks that our difficulties are due to the current economic climate and claims he too has suffered.

Maybe this will make sense after you post the landlord's reply to your request to give you back your deposit because he's evicting you?

ie he has no say in this; will be by now have been advised by PTRB that the case is in process? Especially as he never registered with them?

Not registering isn't grounds for the tenant immediately winning any case brought to the PRTB. It is a matter for the PRTB/Revenue to work out but it doesn't show the landlord in good light. If you have filed a complaint it can take a while before they acknowledge receipt of this and begin working on it. 2 or 3 months is my experience, but once it got going there was like 21 day limits on every other step (responses, counters, appeals etc).

Do I tug my non-existent forelock to his "kindness"?

Once again, what?

Graces7

We have a lease here until November.

The owner apparently is or was abroad and his father acted as the landlord.

A few weeks ago, a man arrived here with a letter .. he is he said the owner, and has decided to move back here and so is giving us notice.

Just like that...Bye bye... Out you go..

He insisted that he could give us notice anytime he wanted, and that he could walk in anytime he wanted.

So we called Threshold and they said he was acting totally illegally and to take a case to PTRB.

Although we told him re registering etc, this was never done.

We had the paperwork from PTRB a while ago now; am unwell and very tired trying to relocate, pack etc...

I rely on Rent Allowance and that limits greatly the accommodation available of course.

Getting that letter was a total nightmare; at my age and in poor health.

Threshold were great

On a small pension, finding deposit, rent, moving costs etc is a nightmare alsoo, sow e told him that returning it now would help us to leave SOON.

He is not homeless; his family have a big house down the road and another larger rental that has been empty all year. Where he is now installed.

TouchingVirus

Firstly, the landlord is not entitled to enter your property without your permission, whether you are home or not. You are fully entitled to refuse them entry.

However, landlords are allowed to evict tenants under several circumstances such as at any time within six months of the tenancy beginning for any reason, or thereafter for reasons such as them wanting to use the property for themselves or immediate family members, refurbishment or selling the property.

Regardless of the reason, the landlord must provide adequete notice as set out below unless you signed a lease that waives these periods for a shorter one.

Less than 6 months 4 weeks (28 days)
6 months to a year - 5 weeks (35 days)
1 – 2 years - 6 weeks (42 days)
2 – 3 years - 8 weeks (56 days)
3 – 4 years - 12 weeks (84 days)
4 years or more - 16 weeks (112 days)

Once this notice has been given, they are entitled to evict you. They must return all deposits that are owed at the end of the tenancy unless they are entitled to keep it because you breached your obligations (e.g. damaged property, refused to pay rent etc).

If the landlord does not subsequently follow through with their intentions after the eviction (e.g. they say they're selling, but they don't sell or they say they're moving into it, but instead they leave it idle or whatever) then you're entitled to take a claim to the PRTB, I'm not sure to what end or what the outcome will be but you're entitled to it anyways.

If you are to be evicted, the notice must be written, outline the reason for the eviction and the date by which you are to vacate the property. It should also outline that within 28 days of the notice you are entitled to take a PRTB claim to stop the eviction.

If the landlord locks you or or actually ejects you from the property illegally then you can apply for an injunction or talk to the PRTB who will apply for you and you will be let back into the property. The same holds for if the landlord denies you services (electricity, gas etc) in order to force you to leave, you can get them restored via an injuction.

The end result is, provided he sticks with the rules and gives you the correct notice, he is entitled to evict you no matter your situation. That's what notice is for, it recognises the inconvenience to the other party and gives you time to get affairs in order to move. He also doesn't have to give you back your deposit before your tenancy ends because then it get messy if something happens to the property.

Graces7

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Firstly, the landlord is not entitled to enter your property without your permission, whether you are home or not. You are fully entitled to refuse them entry.

However, landlords are allowed to evict tenants under several circumstances such as at any time within six months of the tenancy beginning for any reason, or thereafter for reasons such as them wanting to use the property for themselves or immediate family members, refurbishment or selling the property.

Regardless of the reason, the landlord must provide adequete notice as set out below unless you signed a lease that waives these periods for a shorter one.



Once this notice has been given, they are entitled to evict you. They must return all deposits that are owed at the end of the tenancy unless they are entitled to keep it because you breached your obligations (e.g. damaged property, refused to pay rent etc).

If the landlord does not subsequently follow through with their intentions after the eviction (e.g. they say they're selling, but they don't sell or they say they're moving into it, but instead they leave it idle or whatever) then you're entitled to take a claim to the PRTB, I'm not sure to what end or what the outcome will be but you're entitled to it anyways.

If you are to be evicted, the notice must be written, outline the reason for the eviction and the date by which you are to vacate the property. It should also outline that within 28 days of the notice you are entitled to take a PRTB claim to stop the eviction.

If the landlord locks you or or actually ejects you from the property illegally then you can apply for an injunction or talk to the PRTB who will apply for you and you will be let back into the property. The same holds for if the landlord denies you services (electricity, gas etc) in order to force you to leave, you can get them restored via an injuction.

The end result is, provided he sticks with the rules and gives you the correct notice, he is entitled to evict you no matter your situation. That's what notice is for, it recognises the inconvenience to the other party and gives you time to get affairs in order to move. He also doesn't have to give you back your deposit before your tenancy ends because then it get messy if something happens to the property.

?? We have a lease; period which clearly the amateur he is ( the house was previously only let occasionally as a holiday let) overlooked.

As you have done also. A fixed term lease...

So most of what you have written is irrelevant; we have a lease. As Threshold and PTRB agree...

We leased the house for a year intending as he knew to stay several years.

TouchingVirus

Graces7 wrote: »

?? We have a lease; period which clearly the amateur he is ( the house was previously only let occasionally as a holiday let) overlooked.

As you have done also. A fixed term lease...

So most of what you have written is irrelevant; we have a lease. As Threshold and PTRB agree...

We leased the house for a year intending as he knew to stay several years.

Having a lease does not entitle you to the tenancy for the full duration of it. Once minimum notice periods and the right reason is given (e.g. needing the house for themselves/immediate family member/selling) then you must comply. I don't believe you have any ground to stand on.

Graces7

TouchingVirus wrote: »

Having a lease does not entitle you to the tenancy for the full duration of it. Once minimum notice periods and the right reason is given (e.g. needing the house for themselves/immediate family member/selling) then you must comply. I don't believe you have any ground to stand on.

That, young person is b***sh-t

So you know better than Threshold and PTRB now? Amazing...

Check your facts please; amateur barrack room lawyers!:eek:

None of those conditions hold good if there is a fixed term lease. Unless it has a break-clause in it.

REALLY!

Thank God for Threshold!

Call them and ask if you NEED to! They will educate you .....

Ste.phen

Graces7 wrote: »

None of those conditions hold good if there is a fixed term lease. Unless it has a break-clause in it.

A lot of people have wheeled that line out on this forum lately.
A fixed term tenancy (e.g., for one year), means the landlord can't avail of the break clauses in the Act, the lease itself specifically gives additional security of tenure for the tenant, and a guaranteed tenant for the landlord. That's the entire purpose of the lease. OP should be left undisturbed til November, and if it makes it to the PRTB I imagine they'll be none too pleased with the landlord trying to turf them out.

Victor

Graces7 wrote: »

That, young person is b***sh-t

So you know better than Threshold and PTRB now? Amazing...

Check your facts please; amateur barrack room lawyers!:eek:

TouchingVirus wasn't to know the exact details as you have spread the topic over a few threads.

No need for name calling.