Another Player-Same old story

LeeroyJones

West Ham's Northern Ireland born Daniel Kearns has declared for The Republic of Ireland. The IFA are taking the case to the CAS but with FIFA apparently siding with the Republic, it seems to be in vain.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/irish/8836124.stm

As a fan of the Republic of Ireland I am only too happy to see a bit more depth emerging but being honest, if the shoe was on the other foot, I would be furious.
However it does seem, from the outside looking in I'll admit, that the IFA leans to one side of the political divide than the other so I can understand why the likes of Gibson, Wilson and Kearns have made the decisions they have.

invinciblePRSTV

The IFA can whinge and moan all they want but the GFA takes precedent over CAS, they can't force people who have no loyalty to Northern Ireland as a political or sporting entity to declare for them.

DrumSteve

the thread title made it seem like a bad thing...

pickarooney

A player with two countries and no club. Is he worth fighting over?

LeeroyJones

DrumSteve wrote: »

the thread title made it seem like a bad thing...

certainly not entitled, so I'm sorry you think that. Merely meant to highlight the fact that it's a situation that has been dragged out. After Gibson and Wilson declared for ROI there was a hulabaloo then it calmed down. Now that Kearns has declared there's a new hulabaloo and is more than likely going to calm down with time

DrumSteve

LeeroyJones wrote: »

certainly not entitled, so I'm sorry you think that. Merely meant to highlight the fact that it's a situation that has been dragged out. After Gibson and Wilson declared for ROI there was a hulabaloo then it calmed down. Now that Kearns has declared there's a new hulabaloo and is more than likely going to calm down with time

calm down, i wasnt having a go.

Le King

Any Irish person should be allowed to play for the Republic.

IFA are just a bunch of whingebags.

LeeroyJones

DrumSteve wrote: »

calm down, i wasnt having a go.

ha, nor was I! one of the troubles with forums, difficult to portray 'tones of voice' per se!

LeeroyJones

Le King wrote: »

Any Irish person should be allowed to play for the Republic.

IFA are just a bunch of whingebags.

Ultimately I agree, but I would feel sorry for the decent Northern Ireland fan.... not the IFA though!

DrumSteve

LeeroyJones wrote: »

ha, nor was I! one of the troubles with forums, difficult to portray 'tones of voice' per se!

too true man...too true.

Le King

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Ultimately I agree, but I would feel sorry for the decent Northern Ireland fan.... not the IFA though!

Why would he play for Northern Ireland though? It's a British country, when a player who is Irish, can play for the Republic of Ireland.

I don't feel sorry for the Northern Ireland fans one bit, let's not forget the Neil Lennon's of this world. Abused because he wanted to see and play for a United Ireland team.

Not one bit do I feel sorry for the IFA or Northern Ireland fans.

Shane Duffy is a funny one as well. IFA can't force a player play for them who doesn't want to play for Northern Ireland.

Get over it.

super_furry

They can take the case to whoever they want but the fact remains that the Good Friday Agreement enshrines in law the right of people to choose their nationality.

ArmaniJeanss

I feel sorry for the IFA here.

The players in question have started their trade in Saturday morning / Sunday morning football at under 8s level most likely.

These leagues and the whole schoolboy/amateur structure which enables a player to come through to the top level are lossmakers, ran by volunteeers and subsided by whatever crumbs come from the top table, the IFA and the National Team. Whatever attendance money the national team can get, whatever minuscule TV money and sponsorship money etc basically runs the amateur game; and the more competitive their team is then the more of this money the IFA can get.

So these players declaring for the Republic affects both the short-term and more crucially the longterm for football in the North, it potentially affects it down to the level as to whether someone will be willing to put time and effort into running a schoolboy league in 10 years time.

FAI should pay reasonable compensation imo.

Le King

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

I feel sorry for the IFA here.

The players in question have started their trade in Saturday morning / Sunday morning football at under 8s level most likely.

These leagues and the whole schoolboy/amateur structure which enables a player to come through to the top level are lossmakers, ran by volunteeers and subsided by whatever crumbs come from the top table, the IFA and the National Team. Whatever attendance money the national team can get, whatever minuscule TV money and sponsorship money etc basically runs the amateur game; and the more competitive their team is then the more of this money the IFA can get.

So these players declaring for the Republic affects both the short-term and more crucially the longterm for football in the North, it potentially affects it down to the level as to whether someone will be willing to put time and effort into running a schoolboy league in 10 years time.

FAI should pay reasonable compensation imo.

What a load of rubbish. It's not like we are robbing players from Ghana. We are accepting Irish players who want to play for Ireland.

The poor old IFA? WTF.

Irish people should be allowed to play for the Republic, no matter what.

Wolfe Tone

These guys are Irish, and want to play for an Irish team.... whats the big deal?

Pro. F

Le King wrote: »

What a load of rubbish. It's not like we are robbing players from Ghana. We are accepting Irish players who want to play for Ireland.

The poor old IFA? WTF.

Irish people should be allowed to play for the Republic, no matter what.

Calm down ffs. He wasn't questioning the players' right to play for the Republic. It's just a little harsh on the IFA to be loosing some of their best products after putting all the time, effort and money into developing them. That's a reasonable point and is worth mentioning.

I don't think the FAI paying compensation on a case by case basis would work. It would be very hard to put a fair value on the player's worth to either association or on the amount of time and money that's gone into developing them in the north. Maybe some sort of small ongoing gesture from the fai - some sort of token investment in youth coaching in the north or something.

Le King

Pro. F wrote: »

Calm down ffs. He wasn't questioning the players' right to play for the Republic. It's just a little harsh on the IFA to be loosing some of their best products after putting all the time, effort and money into developing them. That's a reasonable point and is worth mentioning.

I don't think the FAI paying compensation on a case by case basis would work. It would be very hard to put a fair value on the player's worth to either association or on the amount of time and money that's gone into developing them in the north. Maybe some sort of small ongoing gesture from the fai - some sort of token investment in youth coaching in the north or something.

"Calm down ffs" - Bit ironic saying that while telling somebody to calm down.

And I don't agree at all with the suggestion that the FAI should have to pay for these players nurturing, when in fact most of the development process would be done at an English football club.

Wolfe Tone

What should be done is something like with the rugger, an all Ireland team.

ctrl-alt-delete

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

What should be done is something like with the rugger, an all Ireland team.

I wouldn't like that at all - even if it did improve us somewhat. I shudder at the thought of Irelands call being played before a football match.

Just as well the powers that be hate each other and essentially make this a non starter for a good few years anyways!

Besides, if the Republic can still stake a claim to some of their players without having to merge whats the rush

Pro. F

Le King wrote: »

"Calm down ffs" - Bit ironic saying that while telling somebody to calm down.

And I don't agree at all with the suggestion that the FAI should have to pay for these players nurturing, when in fact most of the development process would be done at an English football club.

My ''ffs'' was a very calm, tut tutting type of ''ffs''.

Most associations spend a good proportion of their time, money and effort on youth development, I assume the IFA are no different. Lots of volunteers doing lots of work to further the sport and the ability of the kids. It's the same for the North as for the Republic that the teenagers then go over to England for the rest of their training, that doesn't diminish the work that has already been done and the reasons it has been done.

MUSSOLINI wrote: »

What should be done is something like with the rugger, an all Ireland team.

Too many bigots amongst football fans of both sides for that to work imo.

Wolfe Tone

ctrl-alt-delete wrote: »

I wouldn't like that at all - even if it did improve us somewhat. I shudder at the thought of Irelands call being played before a football match.

Just as well the powers that be hate each other and essentially make this a non starter for a good few years anyways!

Besides, if the Republic can still stake a claim to some of their players without having to merge whats the rush

Good point, Irelands call is rubbish.

Johnny_the_fox

Northern Ireland have the option to approach any person thats a british passport holder and have done in the passed - Maik Taylor to name one.

I think its up to the person in question to have the right to decide what they want - especially if they are entitled to choose.

wandatowell

Is he any good or will this thread be the highlight of his journeyman career?

WesternZulu

I have no sympathy for the IFA.

Didn't they try and make all the squad a few years ago get British passports to make traveling "easier".

They still use God Save the Queen as their anthem.

They hardly are trying their best to appease both communities in the North.

So they cannot complain when one decides to play for the republic (that is if its purely a case of identity/ not using the republic as a better "shop window")

Coillte_Bhoy

Pro. F wrote: »

My ''ffs'' was a very calm, tut tutting type of ''ffs''.





Too many bigots amongst football fans of both sides for that to work imo.

Dont know of any bigots on the republic side.

Mr.Nice Guy

I noticed the fan comment in the linked article:

What needs sorted is the absolute disgrace of the IFA paying for and developing young talent only for some beggars to come in and pilferage

This is their derogatory term for us - the beggars. Ironic considering the situation.

If players up north feel a desire to play for us then I welcome them with open arms. They are Irish and I'll support Gibson and Duffy as much I will Given and Dunne. Why should players be forced to play in a team that they do not feel they can identify with as Irishmen? Perhaps the IFA should try and make their team a bit more inclusive and maybe players wouldn't be so eager to get away from them.

Raskolnikov

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

So these players declaring for the Republic affects both the short-term and more crucially the longterm for football in the North, it potentially affects it down to the level as to whether someone will be willing to put time and effort into running a schoolboy league in 10 years time.

FAI should pay reasonable compensation imo.

No we shouldn't.

If the IFA made an effort for a truly inclusive Northern Ireland team, then Catholic youngsters would play for them. As it stands, there is still far too much sectarianism and intimidation against Catholic players.

It simply doesn't make sense that a Catholic would play for a team whose support are generally very hostile of their background.

Raskolnikov

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

This is their derogatory term for us - the beggars. Ironic considering the situation.

Need I remind everyone here of just how enthusiastic our "northern brethren" were of us when we recently played France.

https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/203936/96077.jpg

And Northern Irish football fans wonder why Catholics have no interest in playing for the National team :rolleyes:

dreamers75

if DDSL clubs get compsenated if a player moves to an LOI or english club see no reason for it not to work at international level assuming the player played at NI youth international level.

Its €100 for DDSL clubs from LOI and unknown from english clubs.

Fr Tod Umptious

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Dont know of any bigots on the republic side.

What about the clowns that booed and will again boo Rangers players (and players they think are Rangers players) when they play for their countries ?

Fr Tod Umptious

Raskolnikov wrote: »

If the IFA made an effort for a truly inclusive Northern Ireland team, then Catholic youngsters would play for them.

NI is a f**ked up segregated place, it's not up to the IFA to sort out deeper problems in society.

Pro. F

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Dont know of any bigots on the republic side.

lol you are pathetic.

I'm not going to try and convince you by the way, I'm just going to laugh at you.

Raskolnikov

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

What about the clowns that booed and will again boo Rangers players (and players they think are Rangers players) when they play for their countries ?

Those people are idiots, but that discussion isn't relevent here. Northern Ireland has two very different and distinct traditions, the Republic of Ireland does not.

Raskolnikov

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

NI is a f**ked up segregated place, it's not up to the IFA to sort out deeper problems in society.

Of course not, but instead of questioning why young Catholics don't want to play for the North, they're simply trying to stop them.

Pro. F

Raskolnikov wrote: »

No we shouldn't.

If the IFA made an effort for a truly inclusive Northern Ireland team, then Catholic youngsters would play for them. As it stands, there is still far too much sectarianism and intimidation against Catholic players.

It simply doesn't make sense that a Catholic would play for a team whose support are generally very hostile of their background.

I agree it would be much better if the Northern association were willing and able to make the whole set up more inclusive, but there will always be lads from the North who want to play for the Republic.

Dolph Starbeam

I declared for the Republic of Ireland last week over the North, i'm not sure if Trap got the message yet though.

Coillte_Bhoy

Pro. F wrote: »

lol you are pathetic.

I'm not going to try and convince you by the way, I'm just going to laugh at you.

Indeed. I aint looking for convincing, i'm just looking for examples but of course you cant come up with any so laugh away. As for the insults well.........

Coillte_Bhoy

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

What about the clowns that booed and will again boo Rangers players (and players they think are Rangers players) when they play for their countries ?

How is that bigoted??? So that is the same as making death threats against your captian, singing songs about being up to your knees in your neighbours blood??? Fair enough, we obviously have wildly different interpretations of bigotry in this regard.

Dub13

Mod Note.

Lets keep the personal abuse out of this thread.

Dub13

keane2097

In fairness, I actually think the "bigot" moniker is being thrown around way too easily if booing a player because he plays for a team you don't like counts...

Royal Seahawk

Neil Lennon received death threats while playing for NI. Why would any young Catholic want to play for NI when they run the risk of putting themselves and their family in danger?

The benefits of playing for the Republic Of Ireland far outweigh the benefits of playing for Northern Ireland, and that's before you take the player's backround and upbringing into account.

It's a no brainer imo.

EI111

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Indeed. I aint looking for convincing, i'm just looking for examples but of course you cant come up with any so laugh away. As for the insults well.........

Coillte_Bhoy

EI111 wrote: »

Republican protesters waving irish colours?? Who would have thought it. Unfortunately the Celtic jersey seems to be some sort of uniform for a lot of skangers these days. I know some right cnuts who wear them but dont have a clue about the team and care less. Very frustrating for the rest of us. But thats getting off the point. Again i ask for examples beacuse all you have shown are photos froma politcal protest/riot.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

You could hardly be called a bigot for protesting to a biggoted march, in fairness.

And thant eejit with IRA on the Irish flag was ejected from Celtic Park for it.

keane2097

Would it be fair enough to just summarise it as follows and not get into the shítstorm this would otherwise promise to be:

There are dopes on both sides of the border, but the institutional bigotry is restricted to one side.

yahoo_moe

keane2097 wrote: »

In fairness, I actually think the "bigot" moniker is being thrown around way too easily if booing a player because he plays for a team you don't like counts...

It depends why they "don't like" that team though.

And it's fair to say that it's because of their Protestant history and the affinity these fans (and plenty of normal non-bigoted Irish fans too) feel for Celtic as a Catholic club.

We're not just talking any local rivals here.

tolosenc

Island of Ireland team? Anyone?

Het-Field

Interestingly, young Kearns, hardly registers with any West Ham United fans, even those who would be au fait with the current youth set-up. I read it somewhere that Kearns will prove to be an Irish Jan Bosman, who was a mediocre footballer, who managed to use the doctrine of "stare decisis" to make his name.

The ROI/NI debate is likely to rage on. Young Nationalists and careerists (of whatever creed) will consistently flock south of the border to play their trade.

Comparing the two setups.

1.ROI have a world class manager. NI have a figurehead, who has been in charge of 3rd Division teams for longer then he has managed Premiership Teams.

2.ROI have a top class stadium to use. NI have an incrementally built, run down shack, which would justifiably be considered as the worst stadium in Europe (Which hosts top class football). It is the Ethiopa of International Stadia.

3.ROI have a plethora of used and unused Premiership players. NI's figurehead (David Healy) has found it difficult to break into the most mediocre of teams, and has struggled while on loan to lower league opposition.

4.The chances of the ROI succeeding in qualifying is significantly greater then NI. Since 1988, we have qualified for four, and unsuccessfully played-off in four. Further, we were within one min of qualifying for Euro 92. The only competitions which we have failed to stamp our authority on were Euro 2004, World Cup 2006 (where qualifying went down to the last game), and EURO 08 (when our managerial appointment was so pathetic that he almost dropped points to San Marino).

Naturally, the national question will have a large bearing on the "nationality of a player". Northern Ireland football is British. If one doesnt feel British, then they should be under no obligation to represent such a team. By extension, no country should be expected to compensate other teams for such occurances.

Dempsey

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

What about the clowns that booed and will again boo Rangers players (and players they think are Rangers players) when they play for their countries ?

Most people in this country would be doing it to show that that they dont like their club. Whats wrong with that given that nearly every 2nd person has a celtic jersey and its just another reason to try and put off the player when they play against Ireland.

There is nothing wrong with booing a player because of the club he plays for. Its just more politically correct bull**** like calling it bigotry when the Irish support English clubs but not their national team.

IFA have made their bed and they can lie in it. They are a loyalist institution with a strong loyalist support. Until they deal with that, they will continue to see players declaring for the Republic. Nobody wants to be the next Neil Lennon.

And nothing has changed since Lennon was forced into international exile by death threats btw. You just need to read up about the death threats written on walls and the security measures required when Poland came to Windsor Park for a WCQ last year. The main target was Artur Boruc of Celtic but he wasnt the only one getting a taste of what they are like.

Le King

Personally I don't think there will ever be an All-Ireland team in my lifetime. The bigotry needs to die out.And more so would I want the likes of Kyle Lafferty playing for my country? No way.

Besides their team is fairly poor IMO. Only Jonny Evans would make a contribution to our squad.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

An All-Ireland team can fook off unless it's a United Ireland.