Stage 17 - Thursday, July 22 2010, Pau - Col du Tourmalet, 174 km

Durnish

I thought it was excellent,





nearly as good as Wimbledon.

kennyb3

el tonto wrote: »

Delighted for Roche. He's riden his guts out and despite some setbacks is up where he wants to be.

+1, hopefully he can do a decent TT to round it all off, but he has done superbly well. and id expect him to be even better next year.

Durnish

awful lot of kissing going on there.

Chips Lovell

kennyb3 wrote: »

+1, hopefully he can do a decent TT to round it all off, but he has done superbly well. and id expect him to be even better next year.

Yeah, we should be keeping our fingers crossed at the TT.

If he holds it together it will really nail down his position as team leader for next year and he'll be able to dictate more what he wants.... like a spare wheel.

leftism

dastardly00 wrote: »

if roche had finished alongside Gadret during that stage a few days ago..... then he would now be 11th overall!

THAT stage did nothing to improve Franco-Hibernian relations....

Jaysus Nico might actually make it to Paris in 15th! He'll go into the TT on a big high after today and hopefully Vino won't pull the 2 mins back

at1withmyself

Great viewing and battle between the top two, I don't blame Andy for not trying harder as it seemed clear that Alberto was in good form and wouldn't have given him any time (IMO).

Remember there is a few more days left and Andy was probably keeping something in the tank for the TT, we might still be suprised there and weather could effect it as well.

Great ride by Roche and good to see Chris Horner move up to the 10th so I imagine Radioshack are number one on the team standing? Also well done to Armstrong coming in shortly after Roche.

Can't wait for saturday!

Chips Lovell

leftism wrote: »

THAT stage did nothing to improve Franco-Hibernian relations....

Jaysus Nico might actually make it to Paris in 15th! He'll go into the TT on a big high after today and hopefully Vino won't pull the 2 mins back

It's a hard one to call. Vino may well be very tired after all his efforts, but then again so is Roche. But 15th place means more to Roche than it would to Vino. He's got his stage win and his team leader is in yellow.

furiousox

That was savage climbing, maybe both of them had no more to give but If I was Schleck I wouldn't be punching the air as I crossed the line with AC half a bike length alongside you.
As he (Schleck) said earlier, ''whoever is in yellow today wins the tour'' so surely today is a bad result for him?
Obviously AC will be last out on Saturday so he will know exactly what he has to do to win.
But hey....maybe it'll be Lemond and Fignon all over again?

PS: Very dangerous today with the spectators, I had a nasty feeling one of them was gonna crash.

Chips Lovell

at1withmyself wrote: »

Remember there is a few more days left and Andy was probably keeping something in the tank for the TT, we might still be suprised there and weather could effect it as well.

Honestly I can't see it happening and if it did, it would be a major upset. Contador is an excellent time triallist and even beat Cancellara in last year's final TT. Schleck, while improving a bit in the past year or too, just isn't in the same league.

IM0

greendom wrote: »

Sounds like he's trying to beat Giles, Dunphy et al for sourness

see this why we need sub forums, to seperate the guys who know what they are talking about from those who 'dont get it' in situations like this :rolleyes: stephen was bang on and the other guy too.

this was a crap stage over hyped to death, crap marshellig, no barriers, muppets mooning [meh] there is a time and a place for all this stuff, and the last 4k [why there was no barriers is beyond me...and stephen and others too] fans need to seriously cop on, if your up to ruining everything to get your face or arse on youtube your a muppet, give the guys some respect if your turning up for a race.

anyway andy blew it for reasons stephen said. if you cant get your head around that and want to call it cynical or otherwise..well thats your opinion the fact is its REALIST more than cynical and much closer to reality really. Some of you guys really have no clue about what is involved in racing - its mostly mind games at this level.

leftism

el tonto wrote: »

Honestly I can't see it happening and if it did, it would be a major upset. Contador is an excellent time triallist and even beat Cancellara in last year's final TT. Schleck, while improving a bit in the past year or too, just isn't in the same league.

+1 Barring a crash, the Tour is essentially sown up. Cannot see Schleck coming close to Contador on a 50k TT.

Chips Lovell

No more mountains, so Charteau has the polka dot jersey in the bag.

kennyb3

el tonto wrote: »

Honestly I can't see it happening and if it did, it would be a major upset. Contador is an excellent time triallist and even beat Cancellara in last year's final TT. Schleck, while improving a bit in the past year or too, just isn't in the same league.

+1, and as regards the weather, if its wet it actually gives schlek lest chance, he had a disaster of a prologue in the yet. he must be kicking himself over that.

I think he would of performed better than last year (iirc he gave up circa 1.45), but this years TT is also 12k longer. still with a yellow jersey on his back a minute might of been enough.

but now on saturday contador will put 2 minutes into him IMHO

Morrisseeee

I'm no expert but that was a fair battle for the last 10km. Two giants of the mountains going at it, in awful conditions(incl mad fans), and nothing between them. Just as a matter of interest, how long did it take them to cover the last 10km? Fair play to Roche aswell, he looked well knackered at the end.

Hungrycol

Is AC last man off in the TT? Schleck second last off and so on? Is that the way it works?

IM0

Hungrycol wrote: »

Is AC last man off in the TT? Schleck second last off and so on? Is that the way it works?

yes.

Moflojo

el tonto wrote: »

No more mountains, so Charteau has the polka dot jersey in the bag.

The French ate up the KOM competition, they have the top two contenders and six out of the top ten. They've been eating their Weetabix.

Guybrush T

el tonto wrote: »

No more mountains, so Charteau has the polka dot jersey in the bag.

Green Jersey should be interesting though, might even be decided on the Champs Elysees

corkandproud

Gadret was only 10 seconds behind Roche today - is he gunning for team leader next year. French rider in a French team...

(funny that Gadret didn't make it up to Roche, probably wise to give him some space...)

kerryscoob

Gadret did well to pull in Roche,was dropped much earlier but great effort by Roche.

Marshalling was a disgrace and very dangerous.AC I felt handed AS the stage as a peace offering for the chain gate affair and also as AS did the majority of the work up front when they broke.

Schlenk lost the Tour earlier in the week when he got caught up playing games with Alberto.

Chips Lovell

corkandproud wrote: »

Gadret was only 10 seconds behind Roche today - is he gunning for team leader next year. French rider in a French team...

(funny that Gadret didn't make it up to Roche, probably wise to give him some space...)

I think that's what he was up too. He saw a chance to overtake Roche in the GC. He rode a good Giro and perhaps reckoned he should be the man. But he's an out and out climber. Roche has more strings to his bow, so it would be hard to usurp him.

Funnily I noticed him very publicly doing domestique duty for Roche on the following stage, offering him his water bottle at the top of climbs, riding close to him etc.

nacho libre

yes the race for first place is all but over barring an unforseen accident. Schleck needed to take at least a minute out of Contador on today's stage. So, unless there has been unknown transformation in his time trialling since last year, he will lose at least a minute to Contador in Saturday's time trial. It's unfortunate Schleck doesn't seem to have that sudden extra explosive burst like past great mountain climbers had. If he had today's stage could have been different.

Did anyone else find David Harman's commentary amusing as soon as Contador was reeled back after he attacked Schleck?

ROK ON

Great rides today by Ryder Hesjaydal and Chris Horner.
For me Ryder has been this years Brad Wiggins. ITV reckoned he was the freshest looking rider in the start village every morning.

Also did anyone notice the look in Berties face when he had finished hugging Andy. The smile fell away to be replaced by a look of pure bile.

CheGuedara

ROK ON wrote: »

Also did anyone notice the look in Berties face when he had finished hugging Andy. The smile fell away to be replaced by a look of pure bile.

Yup, the thin veil that was covering it finally slipped off in the Tourmalet mist

Durnish

ah, are youse talking about how Contador tried to give Schleck some wee boy slaps across the face?

Junior

leftism wrote: »

Roche back up to 15th!

He could be knocking on the door for top 10 if Gadret had given him the front wheel....

What did he lose via Wheel-gate 8 minutes ? It would put him top 6 if it was..

Blowfish

Junior wrote: »

What did he lose via Wheel-gate 8 minutes ? It would put him top 6 if it was..

Around 4 afair.

He lost 7"44' on the stage where he bonked. Presumably he would have been a few minutes down on that stage anyway, but if neither had happened, he actually would have been pretty high up. Just goes to show how only a couple of moments can make or break a tour.

greendom

me@ucd wrote: »

see this why we need sub forums, to seperate the guys who know what they are talking about from those who 'dont get it' in situations like this :rolleyes: stephen was bang on and the other guy too.

this was a crap stage over hyped to death, crap marshelling, no barriers, muppets mooning [meh] there is a time and a place for all this stuff, and the last 4k [why there was no barriers is beyond me...and stephen and others too] fans need to seriously cop on, if your up to ruining everything to get your face or arse on youtube your a muppet, give the guys some respect if your turning up for a race.

anyway andy blew it for reasons stephen said. if you cant get your head around that and want to call it cynical or otherwise..well thats your opinion the fact is its REALIST more than cynical and much closer to reality really. Some of you guys really have no clue about what is involved in racing - its mostly mind games at this level.

Well, I saw the 2 best riders in the race in a final mountain face-off, Schleck didn't have enough to get away from Contador and it looks like the Spaniard will win the tour again this year. I certainly saw the mind games with Schleck staring into Contador's face on a number of occasions and probably saying stuff as well. Despite my obvious ignorance I really enjoyed it (the guys running along side did look dangerous but was a good laugh too)- more than you and Stephen obviously. I didn't actually hear Stephen's comments - I was just commenting on the other post.

velopeloton

Roche has lunch in Saint Savin.

karltimber

their climb today looked fairly steep. enjoyable to watch but how can they do that for 18+ km - amazing.

what would be similar in Dublin - so I can gauge the climb -

- park side hill coming out of strawberry beds ?

k

at1withmyself

me@ucd wrote: »

see this why we need sub forums, to seperate the guys who know what they are talking about from those who 'dont get it' in situations like this :rolleyes: stephen was bang on and the other guy too.

this was a crap stage over hyped to death, crap marshellig, no barriers, muppets mooning [meh] there is a time and a place for all this stuff, and the last 4k [why there was no barriers is beyond me...and stephen and others too] fans need to seriously cop on, if your up to ruining everything to get your face or arse on youtube your a muppet, give the guys some respect if your turning up for a race.

anyway andy blew it for reasons stephen said. if you cant get your head around that and want to call it cynical or otherwise..well thats your opinion the fact is its REALIST more than cynical and much closer to reality really. Some of you guys really have no clue about what is involved in racing - its mostly mind games at this level.

Everyone is in entitled to their own opinion and just because today's stage didn't live up to your expectations doesn't mean that some of us didn't enjoy. Like many others here I had my own opinion on the stage and enjoyed it and was not impressed by the eurosport post race commentry. This does not make me less knowledgeable then you and I do 'get it'.

I fully agree with you on the marshalling though as it was poor and maybe more attacks might have happened in the final few kn's had the two guys space to attack each other....

at1withmyself

el tonto wrote: »

Honestly I can't see it happening and if it did, it would be a major upset. Contador is an excellent time triallist and even beat Cancellara in last year's final TT. Schleck, while improving a bit in the past year or too, just isn't in the same league.

Ya I know but I like to think that in order to justify sitting in front of the TV on saturday afternoon

fishfoodie

Junior wrote: »

What did he lose via Wheel-gate 8 minutes ? It would put him top 6 if it was..

Roche learnt two invaluable lessons this tour. Forgetting to eat was his own fault, & one that you'd hope he would have already learnt; but getting let down by his team is one you'd kinda have expected his old man to have passed on after his fractured relationship with Carrera in the Giro of his golden year. Unfortunately Nicko doesn't have the profile or obvious talent of his old man yet, so he can't exactly push his luck, with a team-mate from the France riding the Tour, in a French team. His best policy is to be dignified & let his riding do his talking for him. He did a brilliant job today, & if he puts in a decent TT & he can be proud of himself !

I think the problem with the crowds today was particularly bad, as the visability was so $hit, so the hoards at the top had to all crowd around the roadside to see anything.

niceonetom

I'm in the camp that fell slightly let down by yesterday's stage. I really thought that Andy was committed to a do-or-die strategy and would attack Bertie until one or other of them decisively gapped the other.

In the end pragmatism reigned and, I think, a deal was done.

Andy seemed to trade his hopes of winning the tour for the certainty of winning (or being gifted) the stage and, while he was at it, a little help in widening the gap back to Sanchez and Menchov. On a really good day Menchov would be capable of TTing hard enough to take Andy's second GC place. Hell, if Andy couldn't find his groove on the TT Sanchez could also close him down and that would leave Schleck without even a podium place...

If Andy buried himself in a back-and-forth battle on the Tourmalet both he and Bertie would get to the top slower than the steady (but fast) way they climbed yesterday - that is more to Andy's GC advantage than Bertie's so maybe he was right to give up all hope of yellow in return for a climbing partner (though Bertie did little more than spur him from behind).

They do appear to be genuinely friendly, and with rumours of them being team-mates next year it behoves them both to play nice. I'm dead against it, of course. I wish they hated each other.

Final thought on that is that it looks like Bertie might make it to Paris in yellow without having won a stage. It happens, I know, but it's not the most imperious of victories and he's certainly not as untouchable as he was last year.

He may yet win the TT of course.

Nico's performance was that of a truly classy cyclist. He's proved that he has the all round ability to defend his decision to dedicate himself to GC. More importantly, he's proved he has the mental toughness and ability to suffer that separates talented pros from champions. I'm proud that he'll wear those stripes on his arm for the rest of his career.

iregk

karltimber wrote: »

their climb today looked fairly steep. enjoyable to watch but how can they do that for 18+ km - amazing.

whats more amazing is Sean Kelly climbing it on Wednesday for the centenary celebrations in full 1910 gear.

shapez

fishfoodie wrote: »

Roche learnt two invaluable lessons this tour. Forgetting to eat was his own fault, & one that you'd hope he would have already learnt; but getting let down by his team is one you'd kinda have expected his old man to have passed on after his fractured relationship with Carrera in the Giro of his golden year. Unfortunately Nicko doesn't have the profile or obvious talent of his old man yet, so he can't exactly push his luck, with a team-mate from the France riding the Tour, in a French team. His best policy is to be dignified & let his riding do his talking for him. He did a brilliant job today, & if he puts in a decent TT & he can be proud of himself !
.

I agree here. But, I also think Roche should go away and win a stage in the Tour. Ok, it's good to aim high for a good spot in the GC, but get a stage under the belt first. I was delighted for Riblon when he won a stage.

ednwireland

anyone notice contador rode his standard bike yesterday - thinking about schleck and his yellow bike shipping a chain ?

kennyb3

shapez wrote: »

I agree here. But, I also think Roche should go away and win a stage in the Tour. Ok, it's good to aim high for a good spot in the GC, but get a stage under the belt first. I was delighted for Riblon when he won a stage.

I tend to disagree, he could spend a whole tour looking for a stage win and not get it. last year showing this point. he is 26 now and has to start aiming at GC, this year will have thought him alot and id expect him to be better.

the fact he wasnt taking sauce on his pasta and bonked from not eating enough suggests to me he felt he wasnt at right weight (be it from hamstring injury or whatever). I think you ll see a lighter roche next year and he wont need to improve much to make top 10

AstraMonti

I really loved watching them go up that fast, but I think I am with Tom on this. Andy knows he is not that good in the TT, and I don't think he will go for a breakaway today so it strikes stupid for me to settle for a second position. He should have kept going faster and faster, until him or Alberto cracked. I am still hoping for him to do an extraordinary and out of this planet TT and get the lead.

And I really hope they don't end in the same team, that would be ultra boring.

on_the_nickel

shapez wrote: »

I agree here. But, I also think Roche should go away and win a stage in the Tour. Ok, it's good to aim high for a good spot in the GC, but get a stage under the belt first. I was delighted for Riblon when he won a stage.

It'll be interesting to see how he goes in the final TT after three weeks of a Grand Tour. If he could get a top 15/20 placing in the TT, he just might get a move to a team that will support him.

It's always going to be difficult being a non-French (demi-French?) leader in a French team in the Tour.

tunguska

Great stuff yesterday between Schleck and Contador. Some people are saying Andy couldve given more but I dont think so. He just couldnt shake contador, he was too strong. Great battle though. Hopefully a miracle will happen in the TT tomorrow.

BryanL

Bonking isn't always a question of eating enough.
You can burn energy much faster than you can absorb it from food. Go hard enough for long enough, you'll burn up all your glycogen and get the bonk even on a full stomach.

kennyb3

BryanL wrote: »

Bonking isn't always a question of eating enough.
You can burn energy much faster than you can absorb it from food. Go hard enough for long enough, you'll burn up all your glycogen and get the bonk even on a full stomach.

except that he said himself he didnt eat at the feed station and put it down to this

Caroline_ie

Funkyzeit finally did it?

TheBlaaMan

Late post. Soz, took a while to register and get on board (there doesn't seem to be a thread to say Hi, I new here....?)

Anyways, back to yesterdays stage in TdF and I dont think this pic has been posted. Nico Roche on the latter section of the Tourmalet.........hurting badly it seems, but getting there!

What an effort that looks.....

austinbyrne21

@ TheBlaaMan - Welcome! Cracking picture alright. I read his tweet about this, he reckons he'll have to work on his grimacing face. I say to hell with it, embrace the pain and the look it brings. Class stuff.

Here's his quote... Roche - Had my best day on the bike on t tdf yesterday pleased! Gave it all! Got to work on not grimacing so much! Scared my self when watching tv

Lumen

Found this article, a bit late (sorry!)

Sastre rails against ‘polite’ peloton at Tour de France

“When I was attacking, Alberto Contador came to me and told me that there was a crash from behind. I replied that that seemed nice to me, but that I had a teammate up the road, the race was on and I was going to continue with my attack,” Sastre said

Love it :pac: