J4/J5 Rugby League 2010-2011

2nd Row Donkey

Still no word on fixtures, anyone?

shoutman

This is where they put up the fixtures etc last year, but no update yet.

http://www.sportsmanager.ie/t4.php?userid=5756&report=1&reporttype=fixtures&sportid=5&club_id=&clubid=&nextweek=1&countyid=69&contentcountyid=69&contentsportid=5

Peadar06

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

Still no word on fixtures, anyone?

Leinster Branch said they should be out in the 2 weeks, the person whom organise those fixtures for the domestic leagues is away on holidays until next week.

Peter

stephen_n

Peadar06 wrote: »

Terenure man here, take a rant me now. in the AIL division 2 last year Lansdowne ran away with the league and there were no complaints about them, using contract players and winning just like the Terenure j5 league, but we still had to play on it the league.

Peter

Yes because playing a couple of contracted players on their way back from Injury in your thirds team is the same as dropping your entire thirds team into a social league for people starting to play rugby or coming to the end of long careers. Yes that's an argument very well made there.

By the way what was nures excuse for doing this in various cup competitions over the last 20 years?

Gracelessly Tom

After reading this thread I have to laugh at the Terenure lads trying to defend how they won the J5 league last year!

It was Terenure that approached Mary's two seasons ago about going to the branch and forming an official J5 League. They complained vigorously about the fact they're J4 second team had been badly beaten in J5 cup and this was totally unfair, that clubs shouldn't be allowed to load a team and win a trophy!! :rolleyes:

Hahaha, you have to laugh.........

shoutman

Gracelessly Tom wrote: »

After reading this thread I have to laugh at the Terenure lads trying to defend how they won the J5 league last year!

It was Terenure that approached Mary's two seasons ago about going to the branch and forming an official J5 League. They complained vigorously about the fact they're J4 second team had been badly beaten in J5 cup and this was totally unfair, that clubs shouldn't be allowed to load a team and win a trophy!! :rolleyes:

Hahaha, you have to laugh.........

Agreed, but don't get me started on that J5 cup, beyond ridiculous....

mikedragon32

Amen, brother.

Gracelessly Tom

+1, couldn't agree more. The cup is a joke, the branch are brutal when it comes to growing a set and telling clubs they can't keep loading teams. It ain't safe and more importantly it ain't fun for the guys on the genuine teams.

J5's is all about the social and fun side of rugby, it's not meant to be win at all costs. If you want that move up a few levels!

Ah, but wait, they can't do that, sure they wouldn't win if they did! :rolleyes:

2nd Row Donkey

Anyone know where I can get clarification on the new rolling subs rules/changes to J4 this year.

Sounds like a backwards step if they've scrapped it altogther. If we have 5 players only getting 10-15mins of games time a week they aren't going to stick around long and our B team players won't be interested in moving up to the A's if they're getting sod all time on the field.

genome

Terenure's 1st team in the AIL are within their rights to go and contract in whoever they want to deal with a Lansdowne team with contracted players.
The issue at J5 was that the J2 Terenure team pulled out and dropped to J3 and the J3 team dropped to J5.
And i know the J5 Terenure team were better than the J4 team because I played against them in the J4 league.
I play for clontarf and our last match of the J4 league was against Terenure and their J5 team had no match that week so decided to play us instead of the J4 team and beat us 10-6. We were a top team in the J4 league and if they could beat us i think they were in the wrong league.

To the last post, you can find the branches changes for this season here:
http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/4849.php

Downtime

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

Anyone know where I can get clarification on the new rolling subs rules/changes to J4 this year.

Sounds like a backwards step if they've scrapped it altogther. If we have 5 players only getting 10-15mins of games time a week they aren't going to stick around long and our B team players won't be interested in moving up to the A's if they're getting sod all time on the field.

I think rolling substitutions is expected to be in place up to J1 this season.

genome

Downtime wrote: »

I think rolling substitutions is expected to be in place up to J1 this season.

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/4849.php

Look at that link, there will be 5 subs/replacements in every league right down to J5.

Downtime

genome wrote: »

http://www.leinsterrugby.ie/domestic/4849.php

Look at that link, there will be 5 subs/replacements in every league right down to J5.

Yes, rolling.

mikedragon32

Leinster Domestic site wrote:

Rolling Substitutes will be introduced in all Adult and Under-21 competitions this coming season...

This follows the successful trialing of the Rolling Subs ELV in various Leinster domestic competitions since March 2009. It is also being introduced ahead of the IRFU implementation of rolling subs in the AIL in 2011/12.

Leinster Domestic site wrote:

J4 League –
• Scrummaging to become compulsory; where team fails to scrummage Regulation 1.10 “FAILURE TO FIELD FRONT ROWS” will be applied.
• Number of substitutes / replacements to be reduced to five in order to standardise subs across all competitions.

My reading of this is that there are five substitute players allowed on a rolling basis in line with last years trial, therefore you should be allowed to make up to 12 substitutions in the course of a match.

Downtime

Update on Leinster site about rolling substitutions here

J4Rugby

Any news on when the J4 league fixtures will be released ?

Guy:Incognito

Make Up of J4 League

Following the circulation of the provisional entry list for the J4 League last Monday we have established that 35 teams will be participating. Navan were not on Monday’s list and they replace last year’s winners Old Belvedere. The Anglesea Road side has dropped out as their team has broken up from last season and they would be unable to scrummage this season.

The extra numbers have caused a problem – last year there were 32 teams when the fixtures were issued, allowing four Sections of eight teams to be accommodated quite easily.

Another problem this year is that three of the November internationals are on Saturdays as are Leinster’s first two home games in the Heineken Cup – as the J4 League is a Saturday League it would make expansion to nine teams per section practically unworkable.

We have decided instead to introduce three Super Six Sections, two consisting of 12 teams and the other 11. The Sections are largely merit-based but also include geographic considerations.

The Super Six operates in two phases as follows:

1. Each Section will initially be divided into two groups of six with each team playing every other team once.

2. The top three teams in both groups will then advance into a 6-team pool, with their results against the teams advancing with them being carried forward into Phase 2. They will then play a complete home and away league with the other five teams (including the games carried forward). The bottom three teams in both groups will enter a similar pool and carry on likewise.

This Super Six system works really well in the JP Fanagan Premier League and hopefully it will be as successful here.

The proposed Sections are attached for your perusal and it is intended to issue the fixture lists on Friday.




SECTION "A"

AIB
Blackrock College
Clondalkin
Clontarf
Coolmine
Greystones
Lansdowne
NUIM Barnhall
Parkmore
St Marys College
Stillorgan
Terenure College

SECTION "B"

De La Salle Palmerston
Malahide
Monkstown
Navan
Newbridge
North Kildare
Railway Union
Rathdrum
Seapoint
UCD
Wanderers
Wexford Wanderers


SECTION "C"

Bective Rangers
CYM
Dublin University
Emerald Warriors
Guinness
Millmount House
Old Wesley
Suttonians
Swords
Tallaght
Unidare


As it says, fixtures out Friday.

thebossanova

I'm slightly confused though. After the 1st round of pools, then there's the 2nd round with 2 pools per section (with the teams playing home/away) but does this mean there's going to be Sections A/B/C/D/E/F , or 2 pools per section? If it's the second case does the lower pool in each section have anything to play for if they can't win the section?

I know the 20's have been doing this for a while but I've never asked about it. If there is nothing to play for it seems a bit unfair that the 1st 5 games of the season decide if you can win the section or not.

LeinsterDub

This is a big backwards step in my view. Last year the groups where fairly evenly balanced. This is going back to 2 years ago where we will have major beatings being handed out. The LB should just be honest and rename these J4,5,6,7 and 8 . The gap between J4A and J4D is huge in some cases

delta_bravo

Just on the Old Belvedere thing you mentioned Ste, someone told me last night that due to a lack of props they are fielding hardly any teams this year. Apparently only J1 and AIL. Would be very odd for such an established club to have that problem

Tim Robbins

Anyone have any games this weekend?

Guy:Incognito

Still no sign of the fixtures yet.


Tallaght A played the Garda 2nd's in the Jim Byrne cup. EDIT, should really have put the result seeing as it's already happened Tallaght won and are in to the semi's.

Tallaght B playing a friendly in Balbriggan tomorrow.

This is our 4th weekend of games. Feels great to be playimng matches. I hate long breaks.

stephen_n

Warriors beat Malahide in a ehmm Friendly

shoutman

Stekelly wrote: »

Still no sign of the fixtures yet.


Tallaght A played the Garda 2nd's in the Jim Byrne cup. EDIT, should really have put the result seeing as it's already happened Tallaght won and are in to the semi's.

Tallaght B playing a friendly in Balbriggan tomorrow.

This is our 4th weekend of games. Feels great to be playimng matches. I hate long breaks.

I think we (clontarf) are playing you lads next weekend, will be our first match and are really struggling with numbers this year so it should be interesting....

Peadar06

Terenure were playing St. Marys yesterday and won 41-7 on the J5s, they also played 1XV, J1, J3, U21 and these teams all got beaten by St. Marys.

Peter

Tim Robbins

stephen_n wrote: »

Warriors beat Malahide in a ehmm Friendly

So Stephen did you hang up the boots or decide to play this season? How did the game go?

stephen_n

shoutman wrote: »

I think we (clontarf) are playing you lads next weekend, will be our first match and are really struggling with numbers this year so it should be interesting....

Is that your J4 team from last year? It's strange that the two best teams in the league last year are struggling or in Belvo's case not able to field a team, club rugby seems to be linked to how well the Irish team does as by the sounds of things so far numbers are down in most clubs!

shoutman

Peadar06 wrote: »

Terenure were playing St. Marys yesterday and won 41-7 on the J5s, they also played 1XV, J1, J3, U21 and these teams all got beaten by St. Marys.

Peter

Terenure J5's roughly the same as last years?

stephen_n wrote: »

Is that your J4 team from last year? It's strange that the two best teams in the league last year are struggling or in Belvo's case not able to field a team, club rugby seems to be linked to how well the Irish team does as by the sounds of things so far numbers are down in most clubs!

Yes it is the J4 team from last year, we've had a few lads move away and one has retired, the rest just haven't turned up for training. It could be a case of they'll come back when the matches start.

The worrying thing, in my opinion, is that we only have one newbie. In previous years there was always a good few with the inevitable dropouts once the weather gets bad.

Guy:Incognito

shoutman wrote: »

I think we (clontarf) are playing you lads next weekend, will be our first match and are really struggling with numbers this year so it should be interesting....

Yeah just heard that today (I really should read ahead inthe fixtures :-) ) I think it was originally meant to be 2 games was it not?

stephen_n

Tim Robbins wrote: »

So Stephen did you hang up the boots or decide to play this season? How did the game go?

I tried to retire but they wouldn't let me lol have played twice so far but when I go back to college in two weeks I can't train anymore. Will probably make some guest appearances alright through out the season when I'm free mainly as a sub I hope as it's thirty years this year since I first started playing lol

2nd Row Donkey

shoutman wrote: »

.

The worrying thing, in my opinion, is that we only have one newbie. In previous years there was always a good few with the inevitable dropouts once the weather gets bad.

Something similar in Tallaght this season two. Only 1 or 2 new lads compared to 10+ we got this time last year.

We played two games this weekend and played nearly 45 players so we should be okay.

magotch07

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

Something similar in Tallaght this season two. Only 1 or 2 new lads compared to 10+ we got this time last year.

We played two games this weekend and played nearly 45 players so we should be okay.

and we were also missing about 5/6 players the weekend just gone.....we have got about 1/2 new lads on the 1st team but have also had 3/4 returning who were missing last season and we havent lost any players which is the main thing

we have had sum good results in the J2 cup against good opposition

Tim Robbins

stephen_n wrote: »

I tried to retire but they wouldn't let me lol have played twice so far but when I go back to college in two weeks I can't train anymore. Will probably make some guest appearances alright through out the season when I'm free mainly as a sub I hope as it's thirty years this year since I first started playing lol

The rumour going around is that it was the Emerald Suttonians playing. Can you confirm ;-) ?

Guy:Incognito

magotch07 wrote: »

we have had sum good results in the J2 cup against good opposition

Plenty of heel dragging going on on the leinster site. The result from the CYM game last wednesday week is still not on it.

Makes it looks like we've havent qualified from the group yet

stephen_n

Tim Robbins wrote: »

The rumour going around is that it was the Emerald Suttonians playing. Can you confirm ;-) ?

Was indeed, several of our players came up through Suttonians and our new coach is from there too. We were missing a lot of the squad, they were away in Galway as one of the lads is emigrating. Malahide had requested the friendly so rather than call it off we made up the numbers with Suttonians players about half and half really. We are getting to know the Suttonians lads well as we beat them the week before in another friendly. Wanderers next week and then back to my old club Greystones.

collidgedosser

The fixtures for the J4 leagues are up. I find the selections of teams are somewhat strange. Firstly UCD and Rathdrum are in the same pool, two teams that faced each other last year in a promotion/relegation playoff.
Bective rangers who finished 5th in section D have jumped to section A,
while Unidare who are a decent side for j4 are left down in section C.

red barron

Had a look at the league there and it seems very strange.

pool 1 for example has only 6 teams in it so you would only play 10 matches in a season. now the fixture list for the 1st 5 matches goes up till 13/11/2011, so i 'am guessing you would finish the league by end of january early feb !!!!!

not only are the number of games fewer but the teams are a complete mix from across the same section last year. i.e blackrock, parkmore and greystones in section one whilst terenure who finished second in section A lasr year start in pool 2.

can any one explain whats going on ? ? ?

the only thing i can think of is pool 1 top 4 play pool 2's top four or something like that ????

shoutman

Look back a page or two in this thread and you'll find the answer, they've changed things up completely.
If anything i think there will be more matches this year.

Guy:Incognito

The make up of the league is inmy post above. The initial 6 team groups play each other once. Then theres a split. The top 3 in each of the 2 groups in each section go to a group together and then play each other twice. Thats 15 games each altogether.

shoutman

Is the league then over for the teams who don't finish in the top three of each group?

collidgedosser

Thanks for that Stephen, it makes a lot more sense now. (With the exception of the placement of Unidare in section C and Bective in A)

red barron

cheers for the info lads ,

that makes it alot better with a good mixture against all the teams from a given section. a shame belvo can't compete as they were a decent team


"2. The top three teams in both groups will then advance into a 6-team pool, with their results against the teams advancing with them being carried forward into Phase 2. They will then play a complete home and away league with the other five teams (including the games carried forward). The bottom three teams in both groups will enter a similar pool and carry on likewise."

just a quick point tho,

i take it that " results against the teams advancing with them being carried forward into Phase 2" mean that once you play a team i.e section a pool 1 greystones v parkmore for exmple mean that you only have one fixture remaining against them to play in your new advanced pool.

also is the points difference not a bit unfair if a particularly week team is in one secton pool !!!!


just nit picking but looks like a great format to be honest !!!!

gaius c

Stekelly wrote: »

last year’s winners Old Belvedere. The Anglesea Road side has dropped out as their team has broken up from last season and they would be unable to scrummage this season.

That J4 section A team is now going into the J5 league. What a pile of ****!

red barron

in fairness the reason is they are unable to scrummage. so the must have no forwards i presume

last year there front row was a pretty hairy bunch and there whole pack was looking like a over 35's team so probably true enough in that a lot retired after there final fling at success !!!!

on the plus side they should give Nure a close match at J 5 provided enough young lads fill the spaces left behind at belvo

collidgedosser

gaius c wrote: »

That J4 section A team is now going into the J5 league. What a pile of ****!

here here

shoutman

Thats a sham if they are going into the J5 league...
And it's a sham if Terenure put out the same team in the J5 league.

stephen_n

Scrummaging rule doesn't apply in the J5 league but honestly I still don't believe they should be allowed drop teams like that. We train new front rows every season and are able to hold our own at J4 i see absolutely no reason why clubs like Belvo can't do it. We played that Belvo team in a friendly at the end of last season and they beat us by 60 points they will destroy the J5 league!

Guy:Incognito

shoutman wrote: »

Is the league then over for the teams who don't finish in the top three of each group?

No. The bottom 3 in each go in to group to play each other in the same way . Kind of a Premiership/First division affair.



Actually just re-reading the section red barron psted. I skimmed that earlier. That means only 13 games for each team. Thats one less than last season. Crap.
And it's one less game again for us (Tallaght) because our initial group only has 5 teams.

delta_bravo

shoutman wrote: »

Thats a sham if they are going into the J5 league...
And it's a sham if Terenure put out the same team in the J5 league.

Apparently they are swapping last years J4 team into J5 and vice versa

darraghw

Just a word on the belvo situation, it is true that there will be a j5 team this year, however most of what is left over from last years j4 team will be moving up to j3 level.