Sherlock [** SPOILERS **]

Mitch Connor

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I was disappointed by that and I would be a big fan.

So we were shown how Moriarty could theoretically have survived killing himself through the Victorian case Sherlock was solving in his mind palace only for Sherlock to declare that Moriarty was dead when he got off the plane.

All that was missing at the end was Bobby Ewing stepping out of the shower.

Glad I didn't pay to see it in the cinema. On the other hand my brother thought it was brilliant.

Sherlock said he was dead after solving the mind palace thing because in his fictional case the woman was dead. She had appeared to rise from the dead, just like Moriarty, but the dead body in the morgue was just that: dead. There was no cheating of death, no supernatural explanation. Sherlock is saying the same here - Moriarty shot himself in the head, dead.

razorblunt

Watched ten minutes, turned away for a second and it dissappeared up its own arsé.

rainbowtrout

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Sherlock said he was dead after solving the mind palace thing because in his fictional case the woman was dead. She had appeared to rise from the dead, just like Moriarty, but the dead body in the morgue was just that: dead. There was no cheating of death, no supernatural explanation. Sherlock is saying the same here - Moriarty shot himself in the head, dead.

I know that. It seemed like a waste of 90 minutes to tell us that though.

Mitch Connor

I thought it was a bit of fun - what i expected of a christmas special. I didn't think it would have any continuity with the series, so I was surprised by that. An odd episode, to be sure, but I enjoyed it for the festive fun I expect it wanted to be.

Ridley

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I thought it was a bit of fun - what i expected of a christmas special. I didn't think it would have any continuity with the series, so I was surprised by that. An odd episode, to be sure, but I enjoyed it for the festive fun I expect it wanted to be.

My thoughts as well. It was presented as a fun little what-if to pass the time till series four rolls around so to actually deal with the series three cliffhanger after all was a pleasant surprise.

Patty O Furniture

Usually it merits a re-watch again, & maybe we're expecting a lot from Sherlock? but that was more silly than smart!

& did we have to see Gatiss more than once!

Even Benedict thought Moffat+Gatiss had 'lost the plot'

& as expected on twitter it got a mixed response

Now we have to wait until next Jan, i thought US TV was bad at taking breaks.

Eugene Norman

A very timey wimey wobbly wobbly episode.

languagenerd

It's definitely quite self indulgent, but overall I enjoyed it. I liked the references to the original Conan Doyle stories and I think they just about got away with the

"it was all a dream'" explanation for the timetravelling

which I normally hate. Raises a lot of questions for Series 4 and the Moriarty question.

Obviously

we've now seen that there's a way Moriarty could shoot himself and not be dead, but that would sort of annoy me - Sherlock faking his own death was farfetched enough, without having two of them at it...

. But then

there's also the suggestion that Moriarty really is dead and there's just other people pretending to be him now, like the women were doing for the Bride. Or there's that whole Moriarty-was-an-actor thing from Series 2... If he was an actor, then he was hiding someone else who's actually behind it all.

I'm definitely overthinking this, amn't I?

Also, why was

Mycroft obese

? Bit pointless.

cython

languagenerd wrote: »

It's definitely quite self indulgent, but overall I enjoyed it. I liked the references to the original Conan Doyle stories and I think they just about got away with the

"it was all a dream'" explanation for the timetravelling

which I normally hate. Raises a lot of questions for Series 4 and the Moriarty question.

Obviously

we've now seen that there's a way Moriarty could shoot himself and not be dead, but that would sort of annoy me - Sherlock faking his own death was farfetched enough, without having two of them at it...

. But then

there's also the suggestion that Moriarty really is dead and there's just other people pretending to be him now, like the women were doing for the Bride. Or there's that whole Moriarty-was-an-actor thing from Series 2... If he was an actor, then he was hiding someone else who's actually behind it all.

I'm definitely overthinking this, amn't I?

Also, why was

Mycroft obese

? Bit pointless.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I was disappointed by that and I would be a big fan.

So we were shown how Moriarty could theoretically have survived killing himself through the Victorian case Sherlock was solving in his mind palace only for Sherlock to declare that Moriarty was dead when he got off the plane.

All that was missing at the end was Bobby Ewing stepping out of the shower.

Glad I didn't pay to see it in the cinema. On the other hand my brother thought it was brilliant.

Personally I don't think we were actually shown a way for Moriarty to have survived, as the past case relied on hiding behind curtains and accomplices close at hand, neither of which Moriarty had available to him on the rooftop with Sherlock. It was posed as a similar scenario, but I think in its solution it was to be seen as immediately dismissible in the context of the Moriarty suicide.

. I could be completely wrong in all that, but it was what I took from it, and the declaration at the end.

OldRio

God that was poor. Trying so very very hard to be 'clever' and failing badly.
Just when you thought it couldn't get more self indulgent it plunges up its own arse.

Speedsie

languagenerd wrote: »

Also, why was

Mycroft obese

? Bit pointless.

In the Conan Doyle story the Greek interpretor, he is described as

heavily built and massive, so perhaps it's a nod to that

Wibbs

razorblunt wrote: »

Watched ten minutes, turned away for a second and it dissappeared up its own arsé.

yeah that pretty much sums it up for me alright.

Eugene Norman

Mycroft is morbidly obese in the novels.
The pips also reference the novels.

I think they wanted to give Andrew Scott a swan song but morriarty is not alive – his team lives on.

Also no need for spoiler tags in this thread.

stevenmu

languagenerd wrote: »

Also, why was

Mycroft obese

? Bit pointless.

That was a clue to show that it was all in Sherlock head.

One of the great things about this episode is that there were clues all the way through so you could solve the mystery yourself. This was something they did well in the very first episode, but haven't done as much of since.

Tin Foil Hat

What a load of absolute crap. Back-slapping, self-indulgent ****; with a morality tale shoe-horned in there about a subtly as a Tim 'The Toolman' Taylor monologue at the end of an episode of Home Improvements. Bullsh!t.

FloatingVoter

Tin Foil Hat wrote: »

What a load of absolute crap. Back-slapping, self-indulgent ****; with a morality tale shoe-horned in there about a subtly as a Tim 'The Toolman' Taylor monologue at the end of an episode of Home Improvements. Bullsh!t.

Agreed. Quite by coincidence I also watched Suffragette and Made In Dagenham over the last few days. Both are fine films with clear feminist messages. Kind of says it on the tin. Yet both are streets ahead of that rubbish. You get a history lesson in both and more than a few laughs in Dagenham.

A good rerun of Jeremy Brett playing Sherlock as he should be is called for.

BullBlackNova

I enjoyed it, but I can really see why a lot of people didn't.

I really hated season 3 with it's self-indulgent winks and nods to itself, but I enjoyed the mild-horror of the mystery that was going on, and the nods to Sherlock's drug problems.

Tbh, though, I think the best thing that can happen to this series is for Moffat and Gattis to back off and let someone else write it. It has the exact same problems as Doctor Who - self-referential humour that goes over the head of anyone who isn't a die-hard fan, and usually irks those who are, and constant self-congratulation for the viewer and the writers for being clever enough to "get" it.

Ficheall

Jesus, that was awful. I didn't remember previous episodes being quite such a farce, so I'm glad not to have checked in to find you all singing its praises.

"Elementary" is a far better show and has the decency not to sh*t all over Doyle's work, even if it does have Lucy Liu as the Joan Watson sidekick - which actually works in its own way.

Patty O Furniture

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Agreed. Quite by coincidence I also watched Suffragette and Made In Dagenham over the last few days. Both are fine films with clear feminist messages. Kind of says it on the tin. Yet both are streets ahead of that rubbish. You get a history lesson in both and more than a few laughs in Dagenham.

A good rerun of Jeremy Brett playing Sherlock as he should be is called for.

Or some of Basil Rathbone from the 50's classic 1hr masterpieces!

It seems that it was a hit in the UK with 8.5m & afaik beat Mr's Brown in the ratings:rolleyes: but with the exception of the New Year's Eve fireworks with 12.5m, although no room for fireworks in Sherlock, as their head was far up their own ass

ThunbergsAreGo

Patty O Furniture wrote: »

Or some of Basil Rathbone from the 50's classic 1hr masterpieces!

It seems that it was a hit in the UK with 8.5m & afaik beat Mr's Brown in the ratings:rolleyes: but with the exception of the New Year's Eve fireworks with 12.5m, although no room for fireworks in Sherlock, as their head was far up their own ass

I do wonder how many of those 12.5m will be back though. I for one do not think I will be

Vojera

Some of the online comments regarding the depiction of suffragettes as pseudo-Klan members are quite funny, but I do agree that that aspect of the story didn't sit that well for me. On one hand they were being depicted as fighting for women's rights but on the other all they really did was enact petty (and anonymous) revenge against individual men. I don't see how that would further their cause.

endacl

Meh. I enjoyed it. It's just telly. Was better than xfactordancingonice. Successful or not, at least somebody had a bit of a think about it.

ThunbergsAreGo

Vojera wrote: »

Some of the online comments regarding the depiction of suffragettes as pseudo-Klan members are quite funny, but I do agree that that aspect of the story didn't sit that well for me. On one hand they were being depicted as fighting for women's rights but on the other all they really did was enact petty (and anonymous) revenge against individual men. I don't see how that would further their cause.

Petty? They were murderers, didnt sit well at all

Vojera

naughtb4 wrote: »

Petty? They were murderers, didnt sit well at all

Well by petty I mean it was very small-minded, going after individual men who had treated them badly, not men opposing their cause, for example. At least then they'd have been murderers trying to achieve something greater, not just pissed off women with grudges.

leakyboots

Jeez, this really disappointed. I started to drift off asleep (which doesn't happen me in general while watching telly), just seemed like it was trying to be be too clever.

Any news on when the next season is?

Basq

leakyboots wrote: »

Any news on when the next season is?

Being filmed in next few months.. so very late 2016 / early 2017 I'd say.

buckfasterer

Jeez lads, your all an awful sensitive bunch in here. It was a tv show, don't take it so seriously! A lot of it had clever references to other stories, a nice simple set up for the new series at the end when we saw Mycrofts notepad.

brian_t

buckfasterer wrote: »

Jeez It was a tv show, don't take it so seriously!.

It was very heavily hyped and

Cinemas worldwide will be screening the brand new episode, and in partnership with BBC Worldwide we're delighted to bring you the list of over 100 cinemas in the UK and Ireland that will be showing the eagerly awaited Victorian Special on January 1 2016.

http://www.sherlockology.com/news/2015/10/25/sherlock-special-cinema-listing-251015

languagenerd

Vojera wrote: »

Some of the online comments regarding the depiction of suffragettes as pseudo-Klan members are quite funny, but I do agree that that aspect of the story didn't sit that well for me. On one hand they were being depicted as fighting for women's rights but on the other all they really did was enact petty (and anonymous) revenge against individual men. I don't see how that would further their cause.

It was a fairly weak plot, to be fair, even if they were trying to make it fit in with the time period (women aren't exactly treated brilliantly in the Conan Doyle stories). But I think the story was more of a device to further the next series - we've just been shown how a villain can 'continue' killing even when they're dead, suggesting that either Moriarty's image is being used by his followers/comrades or that Moriarty was never one man to begin with and the guy we know was just the face of the movement.

I think we briefly saw an interesting side to Mycroft as well (on the plane, I mean, not Victorian obese Mycroft).

But they did sort of sacrifice this episode's mystery story to set up stuff for later plots. That said, I thought the writing was a lot better than Series 3.

Manach

[QUOTE=Vojera;98284759 At least then they'd have been murderers trying to achieve something greater, not just pissed off women with grudges.[/QUOTE]
... cause like violence for the greater good always works out so well :rolleyes:

SimonTemplar

I didn't love it but there was a lot to like. I thought the dialog was often very punchy and I liked how Freeman amended his performance towards a more Victorian era gentleman.

The Reichenbach Falls scene was a step too far, I thought, and just seemed tacked on for the sake of it.

It started to go downhill when Moriarty turned up. I'm actually getting tired of Moriarty. His character just doesn't have the same appeal as he did in earlier seasons. I feel like Moffat is flogging a dead horse with him. I've said before that I miss the simplicity of the first couple of episodes - there is a case which Sherlock has to solve. The characters, actors and original source material is more than enough to create quality entertainment without Moffat's need to embelish it with convoluted twists and plots.

syklops

SimonTemplar wrote: »

It started to go downhill when Moriarty turned up. I'm actually getting tired of Moriarty. His character just doesn't have the same appeal as he did in earlier seasons. I feel like Moffat is flogging a dead horse with him. I've said before that I miss the simplicity of the first couple of episodes - there is a case which Sherlock has to solve. The characters, actors and original source material is more than enough to create quality entertainment without Moffat's need to embelish it with convoluted twists and plots.

TBH, I think they introduced Moriarty a bit too soon. Or at the very least got to the Reichenbach Fall too soon, because it reduced where they could go next. I mean there are 10 episodes in Sherlock, with each story being named after one of the canon stories about him. There are I think 60 stories in total, but in those 10 episodes we have dealt with the most iconic or at least famous stories and Sherlocks two most well known enemies have been killed(assuming Moriarty is dead).

Maybe they didnt realise how popular it was going to be, but they could have spread it out a bit so that the third episode of each season is a Moriarty related episode so that by the end of season 3 or 4 we get to Reichanbach, not the end of season 2.

I don't know, I kind of feel like the writers had just graduated from the Lost School of Convenient Endings with their "Oh, it was all a dream..." ending/explanation.

nc6000

I just got around to watching this last night.

Oh dear but that was pretty poor stuff which we struggled to get through.

Harry Palmr

from guardian

The Abominable Bride, has rocketed to fifth place at the US box office despite a limited release, with total international cinema sales exceeding $30m (£21m).

BBC Worldwide said the 90-minute Victorian-themed show, which debuted on the PBS TV network in the US, was screened in 750 cinemas nationwide on 5 and 6 January and grossed $2.7m.

On a per-screen gross ticket sales average, Sherlock topped the US box office over its two-day run, beating hits including Star Wars: The Force Awakens, it added.

“The intention was always to give Sherlock: The Abominable Bride a limited release to amplify the TV moment and create a piece of event cinema for fans to enjoy,” said Sally de St Croix, head of drama brands at BBC Worldwide. “We never expected it to outshine major Hollywood franchises at the box office and couldn’t be more thrilled with the results.”


Sherlock has become a global phenomenon, but nowhere more so than in China where it topped the box office on its first weekend, prompting the BBC to extend its cinema run with sales currently at $20m.

Expect a dedicated feature film in the next few years.

BoJack Horseman

Season 3 is now on Netflix Ireland

Glebee

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Season 3 is now on Netflix Ireland

Brilliant timing for me, Just got through first two season in the last week and really loved it.. i had a sneek peak at the start of season 3 and am not sure what to think really...

BoJack Horseman

Glebee wrote: »

Brilliant timing for me, Just got through first two season in the last week and really loved it.. i had a sneek peak at the start of season 3 and am not sure what to think really...

Season 3 jumps the meta-shark.

Glebee

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Season 3 jumps the meta-shark.

Sorry, youve lost me

syklops

Glebee wrote: »

Sorry, youve lost me

"Jumping the shark" is a phrase used to describe when a TV show reaches a new low in terms of quality or when a storyline surpasses what would normally have been considered normal or in character previously.

It comes from Happy Days when the Fonz is water skiing and jumps over a shark in the water while on water skis.

Glebee

syklops wrote: »

"Jumping the shark" is a phrase used to describe when a TV show reaches a new low in terms of quality or when a storyline surpasses what would normally have been considered normal or in character previously.

It comes from Happy Days when the Fonz is water skiing and jumps over a shark in the water while on water skis.

lol, cheers thanks for that, so basically is all downhill after the end of Season 2 so.

syklops

Glebee wrote: »

lol, cheers thanks for that, so basically is all downhill after the end of Season 2 so.

Season 3 is ok. Not as good as Seasons 1 and 2.

Then you get the victorian episode which many agree was very disappointing.

Basq

syklops wrote: »

Season 3 is ok. Not as good as Seasons 1 and 2.

The same as other seasons with regards the middle episode being a bit of a washout.. but first and third episode each had their moments.

Didn't enjoy Victorian episode at all though!

syklops

Basq wrote: »

The same as other seasons with regards the middle episode being a bit of a washout.. but first and third episode each had their moments.

Didn't enjoy Victorian episode at all though!

What is it with the middle episode always being crap?

Penn

syklops wrote: »

What is it with the middle episode always being crap?

I actually thought in Season 3 they did the opposite; the 2nd episode was great and the 1st & 3rd were the disappointing ones.

Kirby

I quite enjoyed the middle episode of season 3.

syklops

Penn wrote: »

I actually thought in Season 3 they did the opposite; the 2nd episode was great and the 1st & 3rd were the disappointing ones.

Maybe I need to rewatch it. Season 3 is mostly a blur of disappointment.

I remember there are 2 annoying moustaches.

BullBlackNova

Season 3 is dreadful. The second episode drove me spare, and the first one too. Just seemed like a constant barrage of in-jokes.

Irritating. There is so much that can be done with the series and the characters without resorting to nonsense like that again.

ziedth

I thought episode three was fine to be honest but I did knock them all out in a week while I was working away so maybe the quality from the first two seasons kind of carries season 3 and I didn't notice.

Mr E

Martin Freeman has said on Graham Norton (to air tonight) that the next season will air around Christmas this year, possibly January. Sooner than expected!

http://www.digitalspy.com/tv/sherlock/news/a792276/martin-freeman-says-sherlock-series-4-will-land-around-christmas/

JP Liz V1

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-3593009/Toby-Jones-joins-cast-Sherlock-series-four-confirms-s-set-play-one-Sir-Arthur-Conan-Doyle-s-finest-villains.html

A good addition