Sherlock [** SPOILERS **]

Mr.Crinklewood

When Watson was looking at the headstone, I expected Sherlock's Silhouette ( with his nice hat on ) to appear.

How many episodes did this series have?

Can anyone view the incident after the jump again. Could swear I saw Sherlock's mop of hair standing up.

SarahBM

but Moriarty Spoiler

shot himself!

Im so confused.

And what did Sherlock ask Molly to do exactly? I know she is good, but I dont think she has that sort of pull RE swaping out DNA profiles etc.

I was very moved by John Wattson at the end. I wanted to give him a big hug.

Mr E

Colmo52 wrote: »

I was thinking the same, but would there not have been a bullet hole.

Moriarty shot through his mouth. The hole would have been at the back of his head. If Sherlock used Molly to help cover things up, then that might explain some things.

cml387

Just wow.

When Sherlock was at the journalist's (Katherine Parkinson-small part for her maybe for the kudos) and Moriarty turned up it was one of the all time wtf moments.

LionelNashe

Pre-prepared body, I'm assuming, not Moriarty's, especially as Holmdes is a head taller than JM. There was a lot of rubbish in that episode about the computer code being hidden in the flat and assasins being paid to keep Holmes alive(?). It didn't make much sense and it wasn't needed.

Colmo52

Mr E wrote: »

Moriarty shot through his mouth. The hole would have been at the back of his head. If Sherlock used Molly to help cover things up, then that might explain some things.

Remembered him saying to Molly 'I need you' after I posted.


Moffat just tweeted that there is a third series. Was commisioned at the same time as the second.

mike65

Mr.Crinklewood wrote: »

When Watson was looking at the headstone, I expected Sherlock's Silhouette ( with his nice hat on ) to appear.

That's how I would have done it, walk into reflected view, pause then walk on.

Ginny

And Moffat has said a third series is going ahead.

I just assumed JM obviously had made himself up earlier to look like Sherlock, Sherlock knew this and with Watson being dazed he didn't cop the body wasn't Sherlock as Sherlock had dressed JM's body up to look like him. Molly would do the rest in the Hosp.

Balnog

Possible explanation..

I suspect it has something to do with the laundry van that you see pulling off when John gets on his feet again, suspect that Molly is driving it Sherlock having landed in the back safely

SarahBM

abitofacomedian wrote: »

OK so

expected the faking his own death scene, but that was a mystery you'd need Jonathan Creek solve. No mention of JM's body so it must have been his that fell. Stretcher appeared quickly, John knocked out, Sherlock "needed" Molly who worked in a morgue. Am I close here, please someone tell me I'm close!

Brilliant episode, cannot wait for the next one.

in response to that

the stretcher appeared so fast because they were on the roof top of a hospital. I dont know how he could have had time to swap out a body either.

LionelNashe

Balnog wrote: »

Possible explanation..

I suspect it has something to do with the laundry van that you see pulling off when John gets on his feet again, suspect that Molly is driving it Sherlock having landed in the back safely

I didn't notice that but I did notice the body hitting the ground

SarahBM

with an almighty thump.....

Brian CivilEng

SarahBM wrote: »

in response to that

the stretcher appeared so fast because they were on the roof top of a hospital. I dont know how he could have had time to swap out a body either.

Aye but

that meant that there was little time for the body to be identified.

Das Kitty

Balnog wrote: »

Possible explanation..

I suspect it has something to do with the laundry van that you see pulling off when John gets on his feet again, suspect that Molly is driving it Sherlock having landed in the back safely

I love that you signed up to say that.

Thank you

Balnog

You see it, along with its contents of laundry bags in the background when the crowd gathers around the body, it drives off while John is freaking out

pixelburp

Which is all fine, but the viewers saw everything; there were no convenient cutaways or sneaky edits where you didn't see the face of the person throwing himself off the roof. It was clearly Sherlock in that scene, before and during the fall.

I know they're going to pull a retcon for the 3rd series, but the way that whole scene was filmed felt like a cheap trick to be honest.

Balnog

Das Kitty wrote: »

I love that you signed up to say that.

Thank you

Gotta love a puzzle, and god what a fantastic show. My favourite Holmes had been Basil Rathbone up to now, but Cumberbatch is just dominating the role.

Wereghost

Well, that felt a little corny and overcooked. Clever at the start, and there were some quality scenes, but it seems to have been a case of a weak script bolstered by some fine acting. There were some conspicuous areas of implausibility, too. (

Moriarty considers Sherlock a kindred spirit but then expects him to lay down his life for his friends? John has seen Sherlock's abilities in action several times - concerning matters great and small - but is now supposed to believe that everything was pre-arranged?

) So that's two episodes in a row that seem to have relied more on emotional thrust than cleverness. I can't help thinking that Moffat would have made it a lot more clever had he script-edited it.

Other thoughts: Surely at some point John would recall that

Sherlock made a mistake in saying that his phone was a gift from his brother - something that he surely wouldn't do if he'd rehearsed the answer.

And really, Sherlock - "Nobody's that clever."? Lack of self-esteem is clearly not an issue for the great detective.

Three out of five, I suppose. Not nearly as satisfying as the show at its best. I guess we can expect one great TV movie from the Moff in a year or two, accompanied by a couple of less stellar works from other writers.

Balnog

pixelburp wrote: »

Which is all fine, but the viewers saw everything; there were no convenient cutaways or sneaky edits where you didn't see the face of the person throwing himself off the roof. It was clearly Sherlock in that scene, before and during the fall.

I know they're going to pull a retcon for the 3rd series, but the way that whole scene was filmed felt like a cheap trick to be honest.

It seemed more like it was shot from Johns point of view,

and the bit he missed was the landing having been knocked over by the bike

Mr E

Lads, no need for spoiler tags here.....

K-9

SarahBM wrote: »

but Moriarty Spoiler

shot himself!

Im so confused.

And what did Sherlock ask Molly to do exactly? I know she is good, but I dont think she has that sort of pull RE swaping out DNA profiles etc.

I was very moved by John Wattson at the end. I wanted to give him a big hug.

Moriarty was a serious wtf moment! I suppose it removed the last bit of leverage Holmes had.

cml387 wrote: »

Just wow.

When Sherlock was at the journalist's (Katherine Parkinson-small part for her maybe for the kudos) and Moriarty turned up it was one of the all time wtf moments.

Thought they might have used her more, chemistry between the 2, the "you repel me" line was a bit lame but fitted in with the "comeuppence" theme.

LionelNashe wrote: »

Pre-prepared body, I'm assuming, not Moriarty's, especially as Holmdes is a head taller than JM. There was a lot of rubbish in that episode about the computer code being hidden in the flat and assasins being paid to keep Holmes alive(?). It didn't make much sense and it wasn't needed.

The assassins thing made no sense to me either, why the need for 2 to be killed? The computer code was to disorientate Holmes AFAIK, the whole thing wasn't that smart or clever at all.

Has to be something to do with Watson being knocked down and the disorientation.

SarahBM

just didnt want to give anything away in case people had it recorded

John had plenty of time to stare at Sherlocks body when it was laying on the ground infront of him......

thats what confuses me

Improbable

SarahBM wrote: »

just didnt want to give anything away in case people had it recorded

John had plenty of time to stare at Sherlocks body when it was laying on the ground infront of him......

thats what confuses me

But he was dazed from being knocked over.

Das Kitty

pixelburp wrote: »

Which is all fine, but the viewers saw everything; there were no convenient cutaways or sneaky edits where you didn't see the face of the person throwing himself off the roof. It was clearly Sherlock in that scene, before and during the fall.

I know they're going to pull a retcon for the 3rd series, but the way that whole scene was filmed felt like a cheap trick to be honest.

He made John stand in a very particular spot.

SarahBM

cant wait til the next series and see it all explained.



might go re-watch series one.

pixelburp

Das Kitty wrote: »

He made John stand in a very particular spot.

Yeah, but there was no ambiguity for the viewer's benefit, that's my problem. There was no real point where the camera cutaway to allow for the moment of doubt to creep in.

Improbable

pixelburp wrote: »

Yeah, but there was no ambiguity for the viewer's benefit, that's my problem. There was no real point where the camera cutaway to allow for the moment of doubt to creep in.

Didn't it only show him falling until he was 2 storeys up or so? Then it cuts away to the splat.

Balnog

pixelburp wrote: »

Yeah, but there was no ambiguity for the viewer's benefit, that's my problem. There was no real point where the camera cutaway to allow for the moment of doubt to creep in.

Just checked again on iPlayer, you see Sherlock falling with arms flailing, then it cuts to a body hitting the ground. You do not see that its Sherlock, nor do you see where it fell from. I'm gonna stick with the laundry van.

Balnog

John has to run around a corner to see the body, this is the shot from his pov, he won't have seen the body hit the floor, and this is before he gets hit by the bike which means he doesn't get to examine the body straight away.

Skerries

could Moriarty have a mask of Sherlock or something because the young girl clearly recognised SH even though they had never met?

Brian CivilEng

Just watched it about five times on iPlayer.

It definitely seems to be Benedict Cumberbatch who jumped. Wonder how they will pull this off next year.

Argh Stephen Moffat and Mark Gatiss, I hate you.

StinkySocs

it was awesome!! Really can't wait for the next one!!

ProudDUB

That was brilliant stuff. Was on the edge of seat far more than I was the first ep. (Am completely ignoring last weeks silliness) The first ep was good, but take away the sizzle between Sherlock and Irene, and you had a bit of a hot mess of an ep plot wise imo. T his ep was much, much better.

Only gripe is that I could see a lot of it coming from miles away (especially the end) but would have appreciated if less of what was about to happen was not set up before hand, so obviously. SH going to see Molly in the lab, telling her he knew he was about to die, his choosing that specific roof top location. It was pretty obvious that he was in control from the get go, and not Moriarty.

So what do we think. Is Moriarty dead too? If SH can fake his own death, so can he.

Am still a fan of the actor playing Moriarty. Would be curious to see if peeps here are still as critical of him after this ep, as they were after last season.

Teared up at the grave scene. I knew SH wasn't dead, but Watson didn't and I thought that Martin Freeman knocked it out of the park.

K-9

Skerries wrote: »

could Moriarty have a mask of Sherlock or something because the young girl clearly recognised SH even though they had never met?

What young girl? After he jumped?

Yahew

Sherlock definitely jumped, and may have landed safely in the trash. However we saw someone hit the ground at the same time. Morriarty? Sherlock couldn't have known M would kill himself. I think all the people around were Sherlock's crew, as M remarked on them, surprisedly.

(do we need spoiler tags given the thread title?)

Improbable

K-9 wrote: »

What young girl? After he jumped?

No, the kidnapped girl. She screamed as soon as he walked into the room to talk to her.

Yahew

K-9 wrote: »

What young girl? After he jumped?

The girl who was kidnapped, earlier.

ScrubsfanChris

Anyone remember the dummy hanging in the apartment?

Seriously.... The person falling is alive with with all the flaying limbs, so the question is if it is Sherlock, then how did he survive the impact?

Yahew

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Anyone remember the dummy hanging in the apartment?

Seriously.... The person falling is alive with with all the flaying limbs, so the question is if it is Sherlock, then how did he survive the impact?

Sherlock definitely jumped. We saw something hit the ground, but Watson didn't ( as he had to run around a corner to see what happened). The only thing which is a bit off, is the body hitting the ground. I take it the other body was thrown at the same time, by Molly, or dumped from a truck.

Das Kitty

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Anyone remember the dummy hanging in the apartment?

Seriously.... The person falling is alive with with all the flaying limbs, so the question is if it is Sherlock, then how did he survive the impact?

Landed in the open-top laundry van?

K-9

Improbable wrote: »

No, the kidnapped girl. She screamed as soon as he walked into the room to talk to her.

True, that didn't add up to me, unless they were shown images of him and associated Sherlock with it.

Makes sense as it just seemed to happen for no apparent reason!

Manach

I enjoyed it, and nice to see it ended on a cliffhanger (pun intended).
As to how Sherlock survived, beyond that Molly was involved (who is not the world's best mortician as per the Irene Adler case shows), I'll await season 3.

Das Kitty

I reckon it will be a year and a half at least again til the next series considering how the actors and production people are going to be tied up with various things.

I really really want his tea service.

K-9

Das Kitty wrote: »

I really really want his tea service.

Yeah, dusting down the wedding present china for the VIP's.

Wereghost

K-9 wrote: »

True, that didn't add up to me, unless they were shown images of him and associated Sherlock with it.

Makes sense as it just seemed to happen for no apparent reason!

I wonder. Could it be that Moriarty wore a Sherlock disguise and was made to repeat the act posthumously?

tommy2bad

I really really want his tea service.

LOL at this 'cos thats what the wife said when she saw it.
ME? I was on the edge o me seat the whole time. Wondering how Sherlocks death would be played while keeping options open.
The entire series both one and two relies on the Homes Watson relationship and the actors got it dead right. Looking forward to more. Logic be damned this is entertainment.

K-9

Scrawny71 wrote: »

I wonder. Could it be that Moriarty wore a Sherlock disguise and was made to repeat the act posthumously?

But going from the falling scenes, Sherlock wasn't dead when he fell off!

I give up before head explodes!

Brian CivilEng

The fact that in the last episode "we" saw the hound as a monster, when it was just a normal dog means that "we" could have been shaken by being hit by the messenger bike just as John was. Therefore "we" may have saw what we expected to see, Sherlock lying on the pavement. When in fact, it may have been a dummy while Sherlock was grand in the back of the laundry truck.

Ms Happy

Amazing stuff, best thing on TV in a long time. Martin Freeman was amazing at the end. I had something in "both" of my eyes

Has anyone noticed that the papers Sherlock & John read in the last 2 episodes had stories about the hospital (St Barts) on the front pages? Coincidence?? It really stood out, i commented on it at the time. can't work out if it was something or nothing

I reckon...

For a start the biker aimed for John, he was dazed when he fell from hitting his head or was he drugged.... he saw "what he expected to see" so was it Moriarty that took the fall. Molly was there to swap/falsify medical records.... Moriarty is in Sherlock's grave........

Cannot wait for series 3. It'll be a while though

K-9

Ms Happy wrote: »

Amazing stuff, best thing on TV in a long time. Martin Freeman was amazing at the end. I had something in "both" of my eyes

Has anyone noticed that the papers Sherlock & John read in the last 2 episodes had stories about the hospital (St Barts) on the front pages? Coincidence?? It really stood out, i commented on it at the time. can't work out if it was something or nothing

I reckon...

For a start the biker aimed for John, he was dazed when he fell from hitting his head or was he drugged.... he saw "what he expected to see" so was it Moriarty that took the fall. Molly was there to swap/falsify medical records.... Moriarty is in Sherlock's grave........

Cannot wait for series 3. It'll be a while though

Luther is pretty damn good, BBC drama at its best.

I thought drugged or drunk myself, he definitely was disorientated.

Hospital records was my first thought too