Martial Art Myths - Busted!

Damo W

Hi Guys,

After reading the 'one' about the belt getting darker by blood,sweat and tears :eek:, I wondered what other 'myths' have made it into popular martial art culture....

I'll start with one... nunchaku = rice flail

Here is a short article which gives an alternative origin to the nunchaku

http://nunchaku.tripod.com/about_e.htm

There has to be some good ones out there!!!

cletus

no-touch or chi knockouts is one of my favourites

flynny51

Damo W wrote: »

Hi Guys,

After reading the 'one' about the belt getting darker by blood,sweat and tears :eek:, I wondered what other 'myths' have made it into popular martial art culture....

I'll start with one... nunchaku = rice flail

You're killin me here! I believed that one too! Hell I may as well spew out everything I know about martial arts, it's probably all myth!

Furious-Dave

How about...

...throwing a full speed and full power punch at someones head in sparring but stopping at the last moment, and not making contact, will teach you to have better control over your striking... :rolleyes:

Maybe it does, but to me it just seems like a coaches justification for not doing contact sparring (of any sort) as part of training. It would also be counter productive to real striking, as you'd be training your muscles to perform in a manner other than what is required to strike effectively i.e. to extend the arm right through the target.

YamaMotoYama

Furious-Dave wrote: »

How about...

...throwing a full speed and full power punch at someones head in sparring but stopping at the last moment, and not making contact, will teach you to have better control over your striking... :rolleyes:

Maybe it does.....

It does do that.

In terms of reducing your striking efficiency - well - if you want to knock someone out you won't pull your punch (its not hard - not to do it)

Doug Cartel

YamaMotoYama wrote: »

It does do that.

In terms of reducing your striking efficiency - well - if you want to knock someone out you won't pull your punch (its not hard - not to do it)

I'm having trouble understanding your post, so maybe I've got what you're saying wrong.

If you always pull your punches or only punch the air then you haven't learned how to throw a punch. You've learned to throw something that looks like a punch. Your distancing, timing, balance, power transfer and follow up actions are going to be all wrong.

YamaMotoYama

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Your distancing, timing, balance, power transfer and follow up actions are going to be all wrong.

I train in Karate kumite under WKF rules...

I beg to differ with you on all the above points above...

1) Power transfer - you won't score if you are not making solid contact to the body (WKF rules is more or less full contact to the body, when it comes to the head shots - they allow "reasonable" contact now (especially to the side of the head)). The only level of "pulling punches" is that the guy is not KO'ed - but the theory behind it is that you should be able to display enough technique that you could KO the guy if foolowing through.

2) Follow Up - As its point scoring, it is totally different to say a K-1 or MMA match... so its not really comparible. But in terms of self defense - each technique blends into the next.

3) distancing, timing, balance - A badly timed technique, with incorrect distance and lousey balance in any MA will be punished with a counter. And in terms of scoring under WKF rules... its not going to...

You should always aim for 6 inches behind the target when throwing techniques - if you pull back earlier - it doesn't mean you wouldn't have landed on the intended target.

Doug Cartel

YamaMotoYama wrote: »

1) Power transfer - you won't score if you are not making solid contact to the body

If you made solid contact, you haven't pulled your punch.

the theory behind it is that you should be able to display enough technique that you could KO the guy if foolowing through.

Theory and practice are two different things.

2) Follow Up - As its point scoring, it is totally different to say a K-1 or MMA match... so its not really comparible. But in terms of self defense - each technique blends into the next.

These two statements are at odds with each other.

Doug Cartel

Check this - Biomechanical analysis of the muscular power of martial arts athletes
(http://www.springerlink.com/content/c0815960020t5015/ with full text pdf available)

It analyses the difference in power between people of similar builds who have trained in kick-boxing and TKD, and found the kick-boxers develop muscle recruitment at five times the rate of the TKD people.

the article wrote:

One of the differences of TKD and KB athletes is the training level steps. In TKD, there are 10 levels to reach the black belt [15, 29] and most of the time TKD training is based on attacks and counter-attack as if in an imaginary fight.
Kickboxing (KB) athletes start their training similar to real fighting, and for sparring only basic knowledge of fighting is required. Therefore, for the match, the athlete develops physical preparation for fighting and athletes are constantly under such training without interruption [11]. According to Lin, the physical preparation is crucial for the technical preparation, which accelerates or prevents the development in ‘‘contact’’ sports, because force plays a decisive role in good technical implementation. The TKD athletes, despite their relatively low power of anaerobic resistance, have been successful in international competitions, due to their excellent skill and experience.

OK, it's TKD and not karate, but these guys have developed the skills needed for their competition which includes this idea of restraining their attacks. Their muscle recruitment is way behind that of the kick-boxers, so when it comes to delivering that "knock out" punch, it's not going to be a simple case of just following through on one of the punches they'd use in competition.

YamaMotoYama

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Check this - Biomechanical analysis of the muscular power of martial arts athletes
(http://www.springerlink.com/content/c0815960020t5015/ with full text pdf available)

It analyses the difference in power between people of similar builds who have trained in kick-boxing and TKD, and found the kick-boxers develop muscle recruitment at five times the rate of the TKD people.



OK, it's TKD and not karate, but these guys have developed the skills needed for their competition which includes this idea of restraining their attacks. Their muscle recruitment is way behind that of the kick-boxers, so when it comes to delivering that "knock out" punch, it's not going to be a simple case of just following through on one of the punches they'd use in competition.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree...

Lyoto Machida is an example of someone who has trained in semi-contact karate (and been very successful in it) and proven that he also has KO power in the UFC.

I know you can now list loads of kickboxers

I am not saying that KB or any other MA is lesser - what I am saying is that it is incorrect to say that folks who train semi-contact don't have KO power or lousy technique.

flynny51

Has there been any scientific study done on whether straight or sine wave punches are more powerful? I've always been of the opinion that the straight punch is.

cletus

I think Lyoto also trains some muay thai, and really, its not like he just jumped straight from semi-contact competition to mma without some transitional training, ie, full contact striking

Doug Cartel

YamaMotoYama wrote: »

Lyoto Machida is an example of someone who has trained in semi-contact karate (and been very successful in it) and proven that he also has KO power in the UFC.

Machida may have taken part in semi-contact competition when he was younger, but he trains full contact striking to prepare for his MMA matches.

I am not saying that KB or any other MA is lesser - what I am saying is that it is incorrect to say that folks who train semi-contact don't have KO power or lousy technique.

I'm not saying that they they have lousy technique. They have excellent technique for competing in their chosen field. Outside of that field their technique is not as applicable. This applies to all physical skills, why would martial arts be any different.

They don't have KO power though, or at least they are not training the best way to develop KO power. Please see the study I quoted above.

Doug Cartel

flynny51 wrote: »

Has there been any scientific study done on whether straight or sine wave punches are more powerful? I've always been of the opinion that the straight punch is.

Interesting question. I don't think there have. The ITF "sine wave" is total psudo-science though, so I can't imagine anyone actually testing it.

Damo W

http://www.howeverythingworks.org/journal/Article1.1.pdf

smacl

Another possible explanation for the origin of the nunchaku

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-cPGlO3Lus

HammerHeadGym

Not myths as such, but I can show anyone how to take a kick in the nuts at full force, and also how to karate chop rocks into dust. Takes between 1 and 3 minutes. Parlour tricks to be sure, but the do impresse. :cool:

Damo W

HammerHeadGym wrote: »

Not myths as such, but I can show anyone how to take a kick in the nuts at full force, and also how to karate chop rocks into dust. Takes between 1 and 3 minutes. Parlour tricks to be sure, but the do impresse. :cool:

Just like the unbendable arm:)

Tim_Murphy

flynny51 wrote: »

Has there been any scientific study done on whether straight or sine wave punches are more powerful? I've always been of the opinion that the straight punch is.

Back when I was going my Masters and had time on my hands I did a small study on that very topic. It wasn't a comprehensive study by any means what we found that there was no increase in power generated by using the sine wave. In fact the 'normal' traditional punches generated more power. A standard boxing style right cross was found (shockingly! :eek: ) to be far more powerful than either.

As Doug points out, TKD sine wave is of course complete pseudo-science.

Tim_Murphy

HammerHeadGym wrote: »

Not myths as such, but I can show anyone how to take a kick in the nuts at full force, and also how to karate chop rocks into dust. Takes between 1 and 3 minutes. Parlour tricks to be sure, but the do impresse. :cool:

Saw some middle aged American karate guys taking full force groin shot from a big black dude on TV a while back... I was very impressed, don't ruin it for me!

HammerHeadGym

Tim_Murphy wrote: »

...don't ruin it for me!

Ruin it for you? I can make you that guy.

That's the old fat guy obviously, not the 6 foot 3 black dude

Deise Musashi

Samurai sword cutting the barrel of a rifle in half :rolleyes:

Not by the looks of the sword I inherited, chipped out good and proper!

hooplah

HammerHeadGym wrote: »

Not myths as such, but I can show anyone how to take a kick in the nuts at full force, and also how to karate chop rocks into dust. Takes between 1 and 3 minutes. Parlour tricks to be sure, but the do impresse. :cool:

I know its an old topic but after seeing this clip:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a86cQobU-n4

(which I think tim mentioned) I'd be curious to know what the trick is?

HammerHeadGym

It's all about tilting the pelvis so the kick goes into your glutes not your stones. If you're ever around wild geese on pearse street, drop in and I'll teach you for free. It'll take 3 minutes and you dont need any equipment, or even a change of clothes.

mgmt

Martial Arts is all Propaganda and Parlor Tricks??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcbe3Ao0ThU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCPZMnQ9API

***Warning NSFW***