Chemtrails proof or so it seems

The Highwayman

Hmmm seems to be something odd going on with this aircraft

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSSWnXQsgOU


DOOH!!

Torakx

You copy pasted the link to the layman advisor court hearing.
Just incase you misplaced it.

Edit: now with link fixed hehe
Looks interesting.Im looking forward to seeing the explanations.

squod

Cloud seeding, so what?

TalkieWalkie

Seems they do a lot of this "cloud seeding" in cloudless/clear skies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8Pmb2Rt47g

antodeco

How was this guy videoing it? He couldnt have been directly behind the plane, as he would need to be looking out the pilots window. They cant have been passing paths, because it would only have been able to be video'ed for about half a minute.

cursai

Best explanation against chemtrails I've read.
Quote


"As an aerospace engineer, I know a lot about ideally-expanded, over-expanded, and under-expanded jet engine exhaust dynamics. And I don't know how many times I have tried to explain to the chemtrails conspiracy theorists the FACT that jet engines are designed to a SPECIFIC atmospheric condition for optimal performance. For some reason they think they know better than me (and yet they cannot explain their theory in mathematic terms like I can explain the natural state of jet exhaust expansion to them).

I have never (and that means never EVER) seen any quantified evidence that would demonstrate that any CONTRAIL that appears in the sky is anything more than a normally over-expanded jet exhaust operating in an atmospheric area where the water density is already high (almost saturated), and the passing of the jet engine through that atmospheric condition has caused the high water density to be condensed into visible exhaust plumes.

As part of my undergrad Aero studies I had to program a "generic jet engine" model. Some of its inputs are the atmospheric conditions in which the jet engine operates. This simple model can reliably predict and model contrails due to over-expansion of a jet engine nozzle. This is why you will never see someone with a degree in aerospace engineering endorsing the "chemtrail" conspiracy theory. We all know just how normal a CONTRAIL pattern is given the parameters which govern jet engine operation in a variable atmospheric condition.


The "highways in the skies" are actually the very REASON they appear so regular! There are specific enroute "paths in the skies" that are called Victor Airways. They are a throwback to the days before GPS when aircraft would fly "FROM" one radio navigation sensor (abbreviated VOR for Very high Omni Range) "TO" another. (note: Victor airways comes from VOR). And in terminal areas (airports) there are very specific, published approach & departure routes which all pilots (and computer navigation systems) possess and know how to fly. Air Traffic Control is NOT a random science. Finally, there are also rules for assigned altitudes for aircraft to cruise. These rules go as follows:

For aircraft traveling on magnetic headings of 000 thru 179 degrees, they will be assigned an odd numbered altitude (for example, 31,000 feet).

For aircraft traveling on magnetic headgins of 180 thru 359 degrees, they will be assigned an even numbered altitude (for example, 32,000 feet).

This ensure separation, and also allows crossing contrail patterns.

The following is another set of NASA websites which you can read at leisure and learn all about the highly-technical, highly-coordinated "dance" of air traffic control operations in the US:

[link to virtualskies.arc.nasa.gov]

RMT

PS - One reason for the "rows side by side" can be easily understood when you consider airplanes generally have two engines on their wings, or in the case of 747s 4 engines on their wings. "

The above was written by RainmanTime on the time travel institute forums.

bytey

I did think chemtrails existed , mainly because I felt that the amount , shape , and behaviour appeared very odd , in the trails over our cities.

I now think its unlikely to be deliberate spraying , after alot of reading and observation


my reasons :

1/ I have watched alot of 60s and 70s movies , and plane trails of the same type and shape , exist in these movies - so it must be going along time if its deliberate - i doubt this is the case.

2/ the evolution of the fan jet , indicates to me that the greater efficiency engines would produce more persistent and thicker contrails of water vapour

3/ the huge increase in air traffic and cheaper airlines has increased massively the amount of trails and planes passing over us all - this would look to anyone who looks up and suddenly realisees - that we must be being sprayed - but I can remember very little air traffic in ireland in the lates 70's as a kid , and now its a plane evry 60 seconds or so


its not like me to down a CT , i really did think there was something up
but im feeling these days that its not the case - its just contrails .

Thats said - I am NOT happy that the very few blue summer skys we do get are clouded over to fcuk with contrails that expand and ruin the sky
and i really think it needs to stop - its pollution and is ugly.


in the states - maybe they are spraying people , who knows .
but over here , I doubt it.

seannash

has anyone ever taken air samples of these chemtrails?

surely someone has tried this and posted results.

i dont believe for a minute that people are spraying us with chemicals

macshadow

seannash wrote: »

has anyone ever taken air samples of these chemtrails?

surely someone has tried this and posted results.

i dont believe for a minute that people are spraying us with chemicals

A lot of people in the uk didn't believe it for a minute either but they were WRONG. Have a read of this. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience

seannash

macshadow wrote: »

A lot of people in the uk didn't believe it for a minute either but they were WRONG. Have a read of this. http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience

cool

they found out about that but i seriously doubt people are doing it now,people are far too aware for them to be pulling that caper in this day and age.

the explainations given seem perfectly reasonable

mysterious

seannash wrote: »

i dont believe for a minute that people are spraying us with chemicals

Well waking up will change that.
It's happening and it's not a myth.:)

Yitzhak Rabin

mysterious wrote: »

Well waking up will change that.
It's happening and it's not a myth.:)

If you wake up you will realise they are contrails
Its not happening, its a myth

mysterious

yekahs wrote: »

If you wake up you will realise they are contrails
Its not happening, its a myth

No... People who are awake can handle the truth know they exist. Chemtrails is not even a conspiracy theory. There has been extensive research into this and it has been proven long time ago. Only the people who can handle the truth can face reality though.

When you travel and look around you alot, you begin to learn things.

Yitzhak Rabin

mysterious wrote: »

There has been extensive research into this and it has been proven long time ago. O

Brilliant. Where can I find these studies?

mysterious

yekahs wrote: »

Brilliant. Where can I find these studies?

:rolleyes::D Get off your own ass and find it. In today's world your expected to be an adult who is responsible for him/herself. I do not try to entertain naysayers and deniers. If something is real and true, no other adult that lives on this world should ever ( and I mean EVER ) have to prove anything to you. Stop sitting around waiting for others to convince you of something you have obviously shown to ignore or deny even exist...

You should actually read how silly you come across. I would of thought by 2010, people like you would wake up or give up trying have this classroom education programme set. Where you appear in this case to be the student and i I appear to be the one to teach you." Most people in this conformed society follow this suit. They want others all the time to convince them what is real or what is true. You fall into that category (as proof of your previous statement)

Adults don't behave this way when one is using their own intellegence. Find a way to discern things Yekaks.

Yitzhak Rabin

mysterious wrote: »

:rolleyes::D Get off your own ass and find it. In today's world your expected to be an adult who is responsible for him/herself. I do not try to entertain naysayers and deniers. If something is real and true, no other adult that lives on this world should ever ( and I mean EVER ) have to prove anything to you. Stop sitting around waiting for others to convince you of something you have obviously shown to ignore or deny even exist...

You should actually read how silly you come across. I would of thought by 2010, people like you would wake up or give up trying have this classroom education programme set. Where you appear in this case to be the student and i I appear to be the one to teach you." Most people in this conformed society follow this suit. They want others all the time to convince them what is real or what is true. You fall into that category (as proof of your previous statement)

Adults don't behave this way when one is using their own intellegence. Find a way to discern things Yekaks.

So you don't know of any studies that confirm chemtrails?.....

Also, while you go on a rant and liken me to a petulant child and tell me I need to use my intelligence, you should learn to spell it.

mysterious

yekahs wrote: »

So you don't know of any studies that confirm chemtrails?.....

Also, while you go on a rant and liken me to a petulant child and tell me I need to use my intelligence, you should learn to spell it.

I don't respect people who wait for others prove something to them. That to me is really stupid and quite frankly immature. It's simply avoiding self responsibility. You cannot argue this fact because you seem to do it all the time on this forum. Instead of asking people all the time, could you do some actual research yourself. Maybe if we see you do that, I might give you more time for real topics on this forum .

What's stopping you from getting real with yourself?. DO something with research and stop relying on other's to tell you everything. This is real "growing up". Learn to face the world reasling, the media is not here to inform you and most people around you are not either.

The only one who can get you to face reality is you.

I'm only showing you how you come across, I don't care who you are and how you come across to other's. I am been straight up with you and saying I won't put up with your nonsense. Don't wait for me to tell you how your acting if what I said upset you. But then again if you did the smart thing we wouldn't be having this convo would we

Yitzhak Rabin

mysterious wrote: »

I don't respect people who wait for others prove something to them. That to me is really stupid and quite frankly immature. It's simply avoiding self responsibility. You cannot argue this fact because you seem to do it all the time on this forum. Instead of asking people all the time, could you do some actual research yourself. Maybe if we see you do that, I might give you more time for real topics on this forum .

What's stopping you from getting real with yourself?. DO something with research and stop relying on other's to tell you everything. This is real "growing up". Learn to face the world reasling, the media is not here to inform you and most people around you are not either.

The only one who can get you to face reality is you.

I'm only showing you how you come across, I don't care who you are and how you come across to other's. I am been straight up with you and saying I won't put up with your nonsense. Don't wait for me to tell you how your acting if what I said upset you. But then again if you did the smart thing we wouldn't be having this convo would we

You're like a broken record mysty. The mature thing to do is back up your claims. So if you claim there have been studies which prove chemtrails exist, the frankly put up, or shut up.

I haven't time to read online ramblings research every flight of fancy that people post here. So the polite thing to do is, when you make a claim, you back it up.

So I ask again...Do you know of any studies which show chemtrails exist

Sparticle

mysterious wrote: »

I don't respect people who wait for others prove something to them. That to me is really stupid and quite frankly immature.

So you disagree with teaching, the basis of education?

You make the claim you supply the proof simple as that.

mysterious

yekahs wrote: »

You're like a broken record mysty. The mature thing to do is back up your claims. So if you claim there have been studies which prove chemtrails exist, the frankly put up, or shut up.

I haven't time to read online ramblings research every flight of fancy that people post here. So the polite thing to do is, when you make a claim, you back it up.

So I ask again...Do you know of any studies which show chemtrails exist

The mature thing to do is act mature.

Do it yourself, I'm not there to make you grow up. I can claim anything I want. I can do as I want. I can strip naked if I want. I can also stand here and not have to tell you anything.

The thing you need to understand. Is you are responsible for yourself. You don't show this. So don't expect me to help you or show any leeway.

It's very simple.

Nobody is here to guide you, but yourself. Your an adult act like one.

mysterious

Sparticle wrote: »

So you disagree with teaching, the basis of education?

You make the claim you supply the proof simple as that.

Well if thats the case, why don't you prove me wrong. What I know can be seen and known with basic common sense. What is proof to you, is just more opinions to someone else.

I've out smart this game.:) Don't you both get the message? I don't come here to prove anything to you. If you don't agree with the facts, prove it wrong. Even still you can't be bothered to do that. Yet you expect everyone to run around and give you the time to tell you everything.

Guys seriously take some self reflection as to how you both actually come across. Maybe you will understand why I don't give any time to you both.

mysterious

yekahs wrote: »

You're like a broken record mysty.

I've nearly always made that case about you.

I haven't time to read online ramblings research every flight of fancy that people post here. So the polite thing to do is, when you make a claim, you back it up.

But you have the time to nag at others. Proves my first point, you can't be bothered to do any research.
See what you have time to do all the time. " You have all the time in the world to ask and demand but you never have the time for research" Yekahs seems to me you enjoy wasting people's time. How ironic.

So I ask again...Do you know of any studies which show chemtrails exist

Find out Yekahs, We are adults here I'm not your mother.

Lab_Mouse

Mysterious you have to be Boards.ie's best troll(I mean that as a compliment).The only time you get a ban is when you lose the rag with the mods:D

As yekahs said

if you claim there have been studies which prove chemtrails exist, the frankly put up, or shut up.

EDIT:and if you cant why dont you just say you cant?

mysterious

Let's really get some action on this forum, since no one mentions.

Can the people who nag and demand research show any research?;)

RGDATA!

i've done a lot of research into this and my conclusion is that we are not being secretly sprayed from above with chemicals. the evidence if you look at it strongly supports this. i can't believe people think the opposite of me.
QED
who thinks my argument is good?

Sparticle

mysterious wrote: »

Well if thats the case, why don't you prove me wrong. What I know can be seen and known with basic common sense. What is proof to you, is just more opinions to someone else.

We're not making a claim so we do not have to present proof. The default setting is untrue until someone proves it to be true, not true until someone proves it to be untrue. Proof to me is multiple studies published in peer reviewed journals based on experiments that can be replicated.

mysterious wrote: »

I've out smart this game.:) Don't you both get the message? I don't come here to prove anything to you. If you don't agree with the facts, prove it wrong. Even still you can't be bothered to do that. Yet you expect everyone to run around and give you the time to tell you everything.

How can you not agree with facts???? They are facts. I expect people making claims to back them up with EVIDENCE and if you don't then I see why you believe things like 2012 and such.
All you have to do is copy and paste a link to one of these studies you mentioned. That's about 5 secs work.

Sparticle

mysterious wrote: »

Can the people who nag and demand research show any research?;)

Research on what?

mysterious

Sparticle wrote: »

We're not making a claim so we do not have to present proof. The default setting is untrue until someone proves it to be true, not true until someone proves it to be untrue. Proof to me is multiple studies published in peer reviewed journals based on experiments that can be replicated.



How can you not agree with facts???? They are facts. I expect people making claims to back them up with EVIDENCE and if you don't then I see why you believe things like 2012 and such.
All you have to do is copy and paste a link to one of these studies you mentioned. That's about 5 secs work.

So, your point is, you will sit here and not do anything with your intellegence.

You sit here and wait for someone else to spoon feed you. I keep making this point you can't see how you come across.

What is your reason to come to a C.T forum demanding personal proof from others.

Where is your proof and research?
You say you don't make claims, but you make personal claims and dig at others when they don't answer to your childish demands.

• What info have you brought to the topic of chemtrails?
• What actual evidence have you shown to have any interest in this?
• Why do you insist on getting info from others and your not willing to give it?
• What do we determine as proof?

Sparticle

mysterious wrote: »

So, your point is, you will sit here and not do anything with your intellegence.

You sit here and wait for someone else to spoon feed you. I keep making this point you can't see how you come across.

Once again do you disagree with process of teaching? Do you think an eager student is lazy? I looked(after Beyosocos star thread) for studies supporting chemtrails and I found none, you claim to have evidence so naturally I am intrigued.

mysterious wrote: »

What is your reason to come to a C.T forum demanding personal proof from others.

I'm not sure what you mean by personal proof, all I am doing is scrutinizing peoples beliefs. If they are not scrutinized some poor soul might take them as fact. If they survive scrutiny then there might be something in the claim,

mysterious wrote: »

Where is your proof and research?
You say you don't make claims, but you make personal claims and dig at others when they don't answer to your childish demands.

Name one claim I made in this thread and if I did I will try and back it up.

mysterious wrote: »

• What info have you brought to the topic of chemtrails?
• What actual evidence have you shown to have any interest in this?
• Why do you insist on getting info from others and your not willing to give it?
• What do we determine as proof?

I have brought a questioning spirit, what have you brought?
I keep asking you for proof, is that not evidence of interest? I am genuinely interested in why people believe this despite a pretty airtight explanation.
I do not make claims, I do not need to give evidence. If someone asked me for info i'd do my best to supply it.
Proof is "any factual evidence that helps to establish the truth of something; "if you have any proof for what you say, now is the time to produce it"

robtri

mysterious wrote: »

Let's really get some action on this forum, since no one mentions.

Can the people who nag and demand research show any research?;)

Such a warped view....
the onus of proof, is on the claimant... you claim to have evidence so please present it?

ohh and u are more than welcome to come visit me and look back through my google history to see i have researched/ looked into this and read plenty of different sites about it, so far none has offred conclusion prrof about chemtrails... thats what makes it a CT...
you on the other had state u have proof,but refuse to share it...
therfore you claim of proof is considered worthless.
Also i dont trust the word of complete strangers... that a real stupid thing to do... now if a strange or friend offers some evidence i will look into it and make my OWN mind up...
no one should follow u like a sheep based on your claim of having proof...
surely that would make a person a sheeple..... something you always try and argue against.....

My name is URL

There are chemicals in the exhaust gasses, so technically they could be considered chemtrails =p

Bromine & Tetra-ethyl lead are both aviation fuel additives which may have an effect on people's behavior

from Wiki
* Bromide compounds, especially potassium bromide, were frequently used as sedatives in the 19th and early 20th century. Bromides in the form of simple salts are still used as anticonvulsants in both veterinary and human medicine.

** Lead exposure affects the intelligence quotient (IQ) such that a blood lead level of 30 μg/dL is associated with a 6.9-point reduction of IQ, with most reduction (3.9 points) occurring below 10 μg/dL.

Also in the U.S., a statistically significant correlation has been found between the use of TEL and violent crime: taking into account a 22-year time lag, the violent crime curve virtually tracks the lead exposure curve. After the ban on TEL, blood lead levels in U.S. children dramatically decreased.


I'm more interested in what effect the contrails are having on weather etc, there was a study done during the 9/11 attacks while all flights in the US were grounded and it showed that temperature variation rose by 2 degrees

mysterious

My name is URL wrote: »

There are chemicals in the exhaust gasses, so technically they could be considered chemtrails =p

Bromine & Tetra-ethyl lead are both aviation fuel additives which may have an effect on people's behavior

from Wiki
* Bromide compounds, especially potassium bromide, were frequently used as sedatives in the 19th and early 20th century. Bromides in the form of simple salts are still used as anticonvulsants in both veterinary and human medicine.

** Lead exposure affects the intelligence quotient (IQ) such that a blood lead level of 30 μg/dL is associated with a 6.9-point reduction of IQ, with most reduction (3.9 points) occurring below 10 μg/dL.

Also in the U.S., a statistically significant correlation has been found between the use of TEL and violent crime: taking into account a 22-year time lag, the violent crime curve virtually tracks the lead exposure curve. After the ban on TEL, blood lead levels in U.S. children dramatically decreased.


I'm more interested in what effect the contrails are having on weather etc, there was a study done during the 9/11 attacks while all flights in the US were grounded and it showed that temperature variation rose by 2 degrees

Barium and Aluminium is also released from chemtrails. Lovely chemicals to induce, poision and fock the brains.

humanji

OK people, Mysterious is of the opinion that chemtrails are real. He's not going to explain this to you, so get over it. Move on with the topic.

Sparticle

My name is URL wrote: »

There are chemicals in the exhaust gasses, so technically they could be considered chemtrails =p

Bromine & Tetra-ethyl lead are both aviation fuel additives which may have an effect on people's behavior

from Wiki
* Bromide compounds, especially potassium bromide, were frequently used as sedatives in the 19th and early 20th century. Bromides in the form of simple salts are still used as anticonvulsants in both veterinary and human medicine.

** Lead exposure affects the intelligence quotient (IQ) such that a blood lead level of 30 μg/dL is associated with a 6.9-point reduction of IQ, with most reduction (3.9 points) occurring below 10 μg/dL.

Also in the U.S., a statistically significant correlation has been found between the use of TEL and violent crime: taking into account a 22-year time lag, the violent crime curve virtually tracks the lead exposure curve. After the ban on TEL, blood lead levels in U.S. children dramatically decreased.


I'm more interested in what effect the contrails are having on weather etc, there was a study done during the 9/11 attacks while all flights in the US were grounded and it showed that temperature variation rose by 2 degrees

Depends on concentration, if really dispersed from jet engines concentration would degrade substantially before inhalation or ingestion. Chemtrails would be a pretty crappy way of spreading poison at that altitude. Contrail + temp correlation is true.

alastair

Sparticle wrote: »

Depends on concentration, if really dispersed from jet engines concentration would degrade substantially before inhalation or ingestion.

Unless it was a special compound. Say something made in Scotland from girders?

My name is URL

Sparticle wrote: »

Depends on concentration, if really dispersed from jet engines concentration would degrade substantially before inhalation or ingestion. Chemtrails would be a pretty crappy way of spreading poison at that altitude. Contrail + temp correlation is true.

Well yeah, it would degrade far quicker but I don't think it would degrade before it comes into contact with us in a least some ways.. year upon year of it being washed down with rain and running into water sources etc. I'm not saying that it does have any effect, but it's possible.

Sparticle

alastair wrote: »

Unless it was a special compound. Say something made in Scotland from girders?

Indeed only irn-bru could survive such a journey.

Sparticle

My name is URL wrote: »

Well yeah, it would degrade far quicker but I don't think it would degrade before it comes into contact with us in a least some ways.. year upon year of it being washed down with rain and running into water sources etc. I'm not saying that it does have any effect, but it's possible.

I'm not 100% sure if those chemicals are even released or if they are used up in combustion. They would react with the environment i'm sure, they are not like lead or other heavy metals. This isn't really researched, i'm only using a leaving cert knowledge of organic chemicals and fuel combustion.

My name is URL

Sparticle wrote: »

I'm not 100% sure if those chemicals are even released or if they are used up in combustion. They would react with the environment i'm sure, they are not like lead or other heavy metals. This isn't really researched, i'm only using a leaving cert knowledge of organic chemicals and fuel combustion.

One of them is lead :P

Even things that are 'used up' in the running of an engine come out the back end afterwards.. a body of matter cannot disappear completely.. it can change form but it can not be destroyed.

Sparticle

My name is URL wrote: »

One of them is lead :P

Even things that are 'used up' in the running of an engine come out the back end afterwards.. a body of matter cannot disappear completely.. it can change form but can not be destroyed.

I didn't notice the lead, The cumulative nature of it would eventually affect you but you would need serious concentrations of it. Lead from other sources such as factories is much higher but still doesn't affect you because of dispersion.
Wait it says that it is not even used anymore on that wiki + aeroplanes don't use petrol . Scratch that

alastair

My name is URL wrote: »

One of them is lead :P

The only problem with Tetra-ethyl lead as part of the chem trail conspiracy is that it's only used in planes with pistons -ie prop planes, and all the sinister chem trail culprits are jet aircraft - whose fuel contains no Tetra-ethyl lead at all.

GarlicBread

Heres an add for a new documentary due out later this year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te_FOsKL_5Q&feature=related

Its barium and aluminum that is being sprayed, this was found out years ago. The big question is who and why. This documentary might exposure the UN or certain governments. Should be a good watch .

robtri

mysterious wrote: »

Barium Lovely chemicals to induce, poision and fock the brains.

you must live near an airport then